Politics be damned: Electric cars aren't really so polarizing

[Ahlevah]

Three words: Range, range, range. From my home in San Diego I can't make it to Las Vegas on a single charge; my ten-year old beater can make it there and back on one tank.

When EV's complete on a par with fuel vehicles, get back to me.

Me, too. I just bought more Oxy stock this afternoon. Sure not buying Tesla. Too risky. (Tesla stock and bonds tumble as investors fret about costs and safety)

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

For vehicles in general, yes, the odometer is important. But we're talking batteries, where age is a huge factor

No sorry, age is NOT a huge factor. Like I said earlier, a cell phone doesn't have the sophisticated charge systems that a car has, but professional digital cinema camera batteries do and I sold a set of TWELVE YEAR OLD battery packs with my last ENG camera.



Still fully functional and still ready to deliver a full day's work.

****************

By the way, if you REALLY want to see what TRUE longevity looks like, check out how long a set of Edison batteries last.
It seems most of them can outlast their OWNERS. Officially, NiFe batteries, invented by Thomas Edison, last thirty years, but they hasten to say "or more" because there are original electric cars like the Baker Electric owned by Jay Leno, which still have the original batteries after over a century.
If you change the electrolyte, you apparently get another thirty years of service out of them.

 

[Bullseye]

How often do you make that long (SD to LV) "commute"? Having your "beater" available for those (occasional?) longer trips and using an EV for your (more frequent?) local transportation seems to be workable - reducing fuel costs/usage and prolonging the life of your "beater". Many households have 2 vehicles (we would certainly like to) such that one of them can be used as a tow vehicle or crowd hauler and the other can used when that added cargo/passenger capacity (and its associated higher energy demand) is not required.

Our "workhorse" vehicle must have a 7,000 lb. trailer towing capacity which means that EVs or most better MPG IC vehicles are not a single vehicle option for us.

If I'm going to spend the amount necessary to buy any vehicle, fuel or EV I'm going to expect it to meet ALL my requirements. As I've mentioned a couple of times I'm expressing MY PERSONAL PREFERENCES not trying to dictate how others approach purchasing an EV. My current "beater" really isn't a beater - a five year old 5-series BMW, so I'm not really interested in buying an EV as some sort of virtue signaling exercise.

 

[Nuber]

No, I paid $22K for a vehicle that retailed for $34K. I also got a 30% federal tax credit for my renewable energy systems, a total of about $13K. I also got an instant credit of $6500 from the state for that. That system has now paid for itself, and is now providing me FREE electricity.

Then why did you state in the original post that you paid $34k? Minor language barrier, overcome. Amended results -

22% of your purchase price was added to the expense of the people of the United States.
15% of your purchase price was added to the expense of the people of Colorado.

If every purchase I made had 37% of the initial investment covered by someone else, I would be claiming that I received a great deal as well.

You only had to pay $22k for a vehicle that retails for $34k. How do you account for your ROI when 37% of your purchase price is hidden from the analysis?

1. Quoting somebody else - "That makes me smart."

.

I have no idea what you are referring to here. I merely have a point of interest to discuss. Is this not a discussion forum?

2. Governments are responsible to meet EPA standards. Most US large cities are frequently out of compliance. Electric cars, renewables - these are concrete solutions.

Government creates the EPA, and their standards, and then imposes them, or ignores them. Without enforcement, a standard is useless. I was after the financial analysis aspect of your purchase anyway.

 

[Media_Truth]

Did you miss this part?

"Let's say you just got home from a long trip and your battery is low."

Did you miss tis part?

"Your analogy falls short because 200-300 miles is well beyond the everyday driving of 99.9% of Americans. "

 

[Media_Truth]

Curious how Climate Changers decided that driving coal burning cars is one of the answers, which is what electric cars are now.

It would probably be more efficient on energy conversion to have those cars be direct coal burning steam powered cars.

Two points here:
1. Electric cars have no point-of-source pollution. This is very important, because most of the large cities in the US are frequently out of EPA compliance.
2. There are now PV systems on the market which can charge your electric car either with or without Netmetering. I spoke to an individual from Vancouver who installed one of these systems, and even with the cloudy climate of that area, he is achieving great results with his 7.6 KW system.

 

[Media_Truth]

One footnote -- that's actually subsidies applied to the price of the vehicles. The government has also spent $2.4 Billion in grants to the manufacturers of cars and related infrastructure equipment - roughly $2400 more subsidy per car (we haven't yet hit a milllion). That doesn't even get into other incentives they recieve.

And the government spent over $6 Trillion on the Bush/Cheney Iraqi Oil War.

 

[YouveBeenTrumpd]

Looks like folks from all political ideologies are enjoying electric cars in the US. In 15 to 20 years, gasoline cars will go the direction of the flip-top phone.

New energy technologies are never at issue with conservatives. This issue is always being forced into them unnaturally and at unnatural high prices by government edict instead of letting the free market bring them to us by demand. If Liberals would just butt out and let the free market work, eventually all this stuff will be available cheap. Look at what happened with personal computers from their beginnings in the 80's today. Look at the massive improvements and cheap prices. All because of free market demand.

 

[Media_Truth]

New energy technologies are never at issue with conservatives. This issue is always being forced into them unnaturally and at unnatural high prices by government edict instead of letting the free market bring them to us by demand. If Liberals would just butt out and let the free market work, eventually all this stuff will be available cheap. Look at what happened with personal computers from their beginnings in the 80's today. Look at the massive improvements and cheap prices. All because of free market demand.

If in fact, your statement was true that "New energy technologies are never at issue with conservatives", then why are the Conservative Koch Brothers investing billions into misinformation campaigns..

 

[YouveBeenTrumpd]

If in fact, your statement was true that "New energy technologies are never at issue with conservatives", then why are the Conservative Koch Brothers investing billions into misinformation campaigns..

Who gives a dang about two dudes. You say they are doing that. That might be fake news. I can't answer a hypothetical.

Or they might be investing into campaigns against the very government coercion that I spoke of, and you are just taking it as being against the technologies themselves.

If I could go to the auto dealer and buy a cheap electric car to putt around town in I might just do that. But when government forces this green crap on us that actually hurts low income people I'll fight against it every time.

 

[JMaximus]

Main Item - Customer satisfaction. Other items outlined in original thread post.

Norway has gone head-over-heels for electric --->
View attachment 67257545

Overall --->
View attachment 67257546

People who wanted an electric car being happy they have one isn't a revolution.

Like I said: EVs account for less than half a percent of motor vehicles on the road today and even as a percentage of sales, EVs are around 2%.

So again, what revolution do you predict (technological, social, etc.) that will get EVs to near 100% of vehicles in just a couple decades?

And, please, be specific.

 

[Media_Truth]

People who wanted an electric car being happy they have one isn't a revolution.

Like I said: EVs account for less than half a percent of motor vehicles on the road today and even as a percentage of sales, EVs are around 2%.

So again, what revolution do you predict (technological, social, etc.) that will get EVs to near 100% of vehicles in just a couple decades?

And, please, be specific.

From opening post --->

1. Can be charged from solar Photovoltaics. Imagine - no gasoline bills and no increase in electricity bills. Even if one chooses not to use PVs, he will realize a large reduction in fuel/power savings. Depending on the area of the country, this can be 1/3 or 1/2 as much.
2. The power and drive train is warranteed for 8 years or 100,000 miles. That includes the batteries. Most owners are now easily getting 150,000-200,000 miles on their original batteries. One Volt owner (PHEV) boasts over 600,000 miles on his original batteries.
3. Maintenance Costs of Electric Vehicles are much lower. Consider - no pistons, cylinders or oil in the motor. No transmission. No exhaust system. Regenerative braking not only efficiently captures braking energy, but results in very little braking.
4. Incredible driveability. 0-60 in a few seconds. If you prefer, it's easy to maneuver ahead of traffic with that kind of acceleration.
5. Quiet as a sleeping kitten.

In short - a superior technology, just like the Smart Phone was superior over flip-tops.

 

[Media_Truth]

Who gives a dang about two dudes. You say they are doing that. That might be fake news. I can't answer a hypothetical.

Or they might be investing into campaigns against the very government coercion that I spoke of, and you are just taking it as being against the technologies themselves.

If I could go to the auto dealer and buy a cheap electric car to putt around town in I might just do that. But when government forces this green crap on us that actually hurts low income people I'll fight against it every time.

Many sights have reported this...

Koch brothers launch new misinformation campaign against electric cars - Electrek

 

[Bergslagstroll]

New energy technologies are never at issue with conservatives. This issue is always being forced into them unnaturally and at unnatural high prices by government edict instead of letting the free market bring them to us by demand. If Liberals would just butt out and let the free market work, eventually all this stuff will be available cheap. Look at what happened with personal computers from their beginnings in the 80's today. Look at the massive improvements and cheap prices. All because of free market demand.

The energy market have never been a free market. For example the enormous amount of tax money have gone to wage wars and support brutal dictatorships in the Middle East to protect the flow of cheap oil.

Fossil fuel companies also use the power of the government to take over private land for coal mines and oil/gas pipelines.

German Court to Rule on Property Rights in Brown Coal Mining Dispute - SPIEGEL ONLINE

Subsidies to fossil fuels have also for a long time been bigger than subsidies to renewables.

Energy snapshots: Estimates for global fossil-fuel consumption subsidies

Fossil fuel companies also doesn’t pay the social and environmental cost of their products.

Global Fossil Fuel Subsidies Remain Large: An Update Based on Country-Level Estimates

Fossil fuel companies have also spent and continue to spend huge amount of money to delay the transition away from fossil fuels.

Tobacco and Oil Industries Used Same Researchers to Sway Public - Scientific American

Doubt over climate science is a product with an industry behind it | Graham Readfearn | Environment | The Guardian

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallm...rFaSI73P4b7Mzq_FnnBjHwu6UQ6PGrTl_T51bpsF2nTJE

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-in-to-fossil-fuels-for-decades-a8028056.html

 

[Bergslagstroll]

And the government spent over $6 Trillion on the Bush/Cheney Iraqi Oil War.

You also for example have had the first Gulf war.

This is also a map of all the military bases US have in the Middle East to protect the flow of oil.

US Military Bases and Faclities in the Middle East | ASP American Security Project

 

[Media_Truth]

You also for example have had the first Gulf war.

This is also a map of all the military bases US have in the Middle East to protect the flow of oil.

US Military Bases and Faclities in the Middle East | ASP American Security Project

And when we look at the first link of this thread, we see that all Americans, regardless of Political affiliation, are positive on Electric Vehicles. It really demonstrates that the Oil Industry is pushing Anti-American agenda.

 

[OldFatGuy]

And when we look at the first link of this thread, we see that all Americans, regardless of Political affiliation, are positive on Electric Vehicles. It really demonstrates that the Oil Industry is pushing Anti-American agenda.

Not all Americans favor EV's. The AAA surveys show only 34% of current car buyers are willing to purchase EV's during the next decade. To be kind, give those surveys an error range of as much as 20% and still less than 50% of potential vehicle buyers are convinced EV's are the future during the next decade. Don't suggest the AAA is a tool of the oil industry because the AAA endorses the use of EV's.

Many of those in opposition understand the strain posed by EV stress on the power grid, the laws of unintended consequences and already a questionable source of reliance. Others recall the historical tout of the internal combustion engine rescuing us all from the pollution of horse manure in the streets. The replacement of one polluting factor with another, not foreseen. Still others recognize the abject failure of EV's to conquer cold environs, subsequent undependability determined by geographic and meteorological limitations. There is good reason why the EV market has failed for snowmobiles.

Acceptance of EV's is not as universal as you claim. Objection is not political, but issues of practicality.

My wife loves riding on the back of my motorcycle, a reproduction of an earlier motorcycle design that barely hits 30 mph going downhill with a good tail wind. I can move faster with my bicycle. The vibrations turn her on, not something to be achieved with an electric motored scooter or bike, not even on the pot holed streets fo NYC. An aesthetic issue of tastes. There's nothing like the smell of napalm in the morning, and there is nothing like the smell of aviation fuel being burned on racing tracks as the engines roar to get adrenaline flowing. EV's might run faster, but they don't afford the same pleasures.

 

[Media_Truth]

Not all Americans favor EV's. The AAA surveys show only 34% of current car buyers are willing to purchase EV's during the next decade. To be kind, give those surveys an error range of as much as 20% and still less than 50% of potential vehicle buyers are convinced EV's are the future during the next decade. Don't suggest the AAA is a tool of the oil industry because the AAA endorses the use of EV's.

Many of those in opposition understand the strain posed by EV stress on the power grid, the laws of unintended consequences and already a questionable source of reliance. Others recall the historical tout of the internal combustion engine rescuing us all from the pollution of horse manure in the streets. The replacement of one polluting factor with another, not foreseen. Still others recognize the abject failure of EV's to conquer cold environs, subsequent undependability determined by geographic and meteorological limitations. There is good reason why the EV market has failed for snowmobiles.

Acceptance of EV's is not as universal as you claim. Objection is not political, but issues of practicality.

My wife loves riding on the back of my motorcycle, a reproduction of an earlier motorcycle design that barely hits 30 mph going downhill with a good tail wind. I can move faster with my bicycle. The vibrations turn her on, not something to be achieved with an electric motored scooter or bike, not even on the pot holed streets fo NYC. An aesthetic issue of tastes. There's nothing like the smell of napalm in the morning, and there is nothing like the smell of aviation fuel being burned on racing tracks as the engines roar to get adrenaline flowing. EV's might run faster, but they don't afford the same pleasures.

EVs are still relatively new to Americans. The proof of the pudding lies in the satisfaction of current EV owners. Obviously these people know what it's like to drive an internal combustion engine car. As word spreads, and people really begin to analyze the benefits, they will start purchasing in masses.

 

[OldFatGuy]

EVs are still relatively new to Americans. The proof of the pudding lies in the satisfaction of current EV owners. Obviously these people know what it's like to drive an internal combustion engine car. As word spreads, and people really begin to analyze the benefits, they will start purchasing in masses

Wishful thinking. And Americans do not want self driving cars either. They may be good for traffic jams, the elderly and the disabled, but most don't trust them. The progressive dreams of protecting people from themselves is counter to the good guy with the gun culture we have as the cure all. Backlash can get very nasty. It is not political, it is social and your dreams are not everyone's dreams. This nation has learned from past reformists not to trust the laws of unintended consequences.

Prohibition is dead. Long live the anti-prohibitionists and freedom of choice. You don't speak for America.

 

[Media_Truth]

Wishful thinking. And Americans do not want self driving cars either. They may be good for traffic jams, the elderly and the disabled, but most don't trust them. The progressive dreams of protecting people from themselves is counter to the good guy with the gun culture we have as the cure all. Backlash can get very nasty. It is not political, it is social and your dreams are not everyone's dreams. This nation has learned from past reformists not to trust the laws of unintended consequences.

Prohibition is dead. Long live the anti-prohibitionists and freedom of choice. You don't speak for America.

I wasn't talking about self-driving cars, so why change the subject? I love my EV. Almost 99% of EV owners love their EVs. Collectively we speak for America, when it comes to EVs.

 

[OldFatGuy]

I wasn't talking about self-driving cars, so why change the subject? I love my EV. Almost 99% of EV owners love their EVs. Collectively we speak for America, when it comes to EVs.

Now I am speaking of both. Too bad, your approval is not necessary. You speak for yourself and no one else. I the same. You are welcome to have sex with your EV, I won't object. But don't declare you speak for anyone other than yourself. No one appointed you, no one elected you as spokesperson. Your opinions are your own, and perhaps equaled by some but certainly not all.

 

[Luther]

Looks like folks from all political ideologies are enjoying electric cars in the US. In 15 to 20 years, gasoline cars will go the direction of the flip-top phone.

Politics be damned: Electric cars aren't really so polarizing

In these days when the political dividing lines can seem insurmountable, Democrats, Republicans, and Independents have something in common: Regardless of their political affiliation, a majority say that they view electric vehicles positively.

A new survey from Climate Nexus has found that 77 percent—a strong majority—views EVs positively. That’s true across demographic groups, and includes 84 percent of Democrats, 75 percent of Independents, and 70 percent of Republicans.

They will enjoy them even more when they realize all the benefits.

1. Can be charged from solar Photovoltaics. Imagine - no gasoline bills and no increase in electricity bills. Even if one chooses not to use PVs, he will realize a large reduction in fuel/power savings. Depending on the area of the country, this can be 1/3 or 1/2 as much.
2. The power and drive train is warranteed for 8 years or 100,000 miles. That includes the batteries. Most owners are now easily getting 150,000-200,000 miles on their original batteries. One Volt owner (PHEV) boasts over 600,000 miles on his original batteries.
3. Maintenance Costs of Electric Vehicles are much lower. Consider - no pistons, cylinders or oil in the motor. No transmission. No exhaust system. Regenerative braking not only efficiently captures braking energy, but results in very little braking.
4. Incredible driveability. 0-60 in a few seconds. If you prefer, it's easy to maneuver ahead of traffic with that kind of acceleration.
5. Quiet as a sleeping kitten.

One thing is for sure, you will continue to hear negative articles about EVs. The Koch Brothers and the Heartland Institute are investing Billions into misinformation campaigns. That's why it's so important that one listen to current owners of EVs. Over 95% are satisfied!!!

Great

This will end the Global warming forum(LOL)

 

[Media_Truth]

Now I am speaking of both. Too bad, your approval is not necessary. You speak for yourself and no one else. I the same. You are welcome to have sex with your EV, I won't object. But don't declare you speak for anyone other than yourself. No one appointed you, no one elected you as spokesperson. Your opinions are your own, and perhaps equaled by some but certainly not all.

Wrong. But, if tou think that's the case, then you speak only for yourself as well.

 

[OldFatGuy]

Wrong. But, if tou think that's the case, then you speak only for yourself as well.

I already stated the same. You see no claims from me as a spokesperson for others. Read what you quoted. "I the same."

 

[dcsports]

EVs are still relatively new to Americans. The proof of the pudding lies in the satisfaction of current EV owners. Obviously these people know what it's like to drive an internal combustion engine car. As word spreads, and people really begin to analyze the benefits, they will start purchasing in masses.

View attachment 67258118

It's not just about the benefits, but also the limitations - the most significant being range, charging time, and availability of charging stations. Most people (that have a car) have one per person, and count on being able to have it do what they need it to. An EV would do 95+ percent of what I need it to... but that 5% keeps me from considering one. I couldn't run to my parents an hour and a half away, go on a camping trip with my kids, haul them and their friends to a movie, tow a trailer, take a trip to see one of several cities in my state about 200 miles away, etc. I couldn't let it get to 1/4 tank without worrying about where to find a charging station and sitting there. I'd have to worry about the drain the A/C (or heater) would put on the battery. I'd have to worry about plugging it in every night. I'd have to play 'what if' when we have a hurricane and the power could be knocked out. Granted, there are probably ways around all of this with planning, allowing extra time for charging, installing extra equipment in my home, etc -- But I don't have to do that now.