Pitbulls

[Tsunami]

I don't believe that there are bad dogs. There are just owners that are ignorant of how to raise or rehabilitate dogs. This dog should be rehomed. Obviously, these owners aren't a good match for this dog. The dog is not inherently bad. He needs calm and assertive leadership.

Do you think there are bad people? Why wouldn't there be bad dogs? Certainly not all dogs are the same.

 

[Thorgasm]

Do you think there are bad people? Why wouldn't there be bad dogs? Certainly not all dogs are the same.

Dogs are not humans. In fact, where people go wrong with dogs is when they try to humanize them.

 

[Tsunami]

Dogs are not humans. In fact, where people go wrong with dogs is when they try to humanize them.

That doesn't answer the question. Certainly you could say that, by human standards, housecats make better pets than lions and tigers. Or that chihuahuas make better pets than wolves. Some individual dogs make better pets than others. And some dog breeds make better pets than others. It's not a moral judgement.. killing, for a lion or wolf or dog isn't "bad", but by human standards it makes for a bad pet.

 

[Thorgasm]

That doesn't answer the question. Certainly you could say that, by human standards, housecats make better pets than lions and tigers. Or that chihuahuas make better pets than wolves. Some individual dogs make better pets than others. And some dog breeds make better pets than others. It's not a moral judgement.. killing, for a lion or wolf or dog isn't "bad", but by human standards it makes for a bad pet.

Dogs are domesticated. Yes, they are animals, but for those educated in dealing with dogs, they are very manageable. Dogs make fine pets.

 

[Tsunami]

Dogs are domesticated. Yes, they are animals, but for those educated in dealing with dogs, they are very manageable. Dogs make fine pets.

I would agree that dogs in general make fine pets. But I don't think all dogs are the same. For example, a dog with rabies would make a lousy pet. Your refusal to answer the question or to differentiate individual dogs or breeds from one another shows me that your opinion is emotional rather than intellectual.

 

[MyOwnDrum]

I have a fearful dog. Instead of being a fear biter, she shuts down completely. A fearful dog is the hardest case. It took her a year and adding a balanced dog to our pack to get her to come out of her shell.

Did you try to rehome the German Shepherd?

Yes, we called a German Shepherd rescue, they were not comfortable with a dog who had bitten. The dog expert and the German Shepherd rescue told us that, if you have a dog that has bitten and you rehome it, that you are legally liable for any subsequent bites.

We were devastated, but I always told myself that I would put down a biting dog. I firmly believe that human safety comes first. It was right before Christmas, 6 years ago. That Spring the animal control lady (we briefly had one and she was aware of our tragedy) told us about the lab litter. We got our lab Spirit, and 10 months later we got our Border Collie/Australian Shepherd Kipper, who was our neighbor's pup, the same age as ours, thanks to their divorce.

 

[MyOwnDrum]

Dogs are not humans. In fact, where people go wrong with dogs is when they try to humanize them.

I contend that humans can also be 'bad seeds'.

 

[Thorgasm]

I would agree that dogs in general make fine pets. But I don't think all dogs are the same. For example, a dog with rabies would make a lousy pet. Your refusal to answer the question or to differentiate individual dogs or breeds from one another shows me that your opinion is emotional rather than intellectual.

Oh, you want to go down this route, huh?

This is a thread about dogs. If the question about whether people are born "bad" is the one you are referring to, it is a red herring. I'm not going to indulge you in your wishes to go down that irrelevant path. Humans are much more complex than dogs.

Dogs with rabies or other neurological conditions aren't always treatable. Let's keep things intellectually honest here and assume the dogs we are talking about are healthy.

I think it's your emotions that are bringing the illogical arguments.

Different breeds do have different instincts that need to be nurtured. They need mental and physical stimulation to fulfill that need. Sure, no two dogs are alike, but their basic way of communicating is the same and they all follow a pack leader.

 

[MyOwnDrum]

Oh, you want to go down this route, huh?

This is a thread about dogs. If the question about whether people are born "bad" is the one you are referring to, it is a red herring. I'm not going to indulge you in your wishes to go down that irrelevant path. Humans are much more complex than dogs.

Dogs with rabies or other neurological conditions aren't always treatable. Let's keep things intellectually honest here and assume the dogs we are talking about are healthy.

I think it's your emotions that are bringing the illogical arguments.

Different breeds do have different instincts that need to be nurtured. They need mental and physical stimulation to fulfill that need. Sure, no two dogs are alike, but their basic way of communicating is the same and they all follow a pack leader.

That's why its so important to mimic wolf behavior and for the owner to establish himself as 'alpha'. For the less assertive individuals, better to obtain a female or a dog from a more docile breed. Also, The Monks of New Skeet have some excellent tips on choosing a pup from the litter that is not likely to be domineering.

 

[Thorgasm]

Yes, we called a German Shepherd rescue, they were not comfortable with a dog who had bitten. The dog expert and the German Shepherd rescue told us that, if you have a dog that has bitten and you rehome it, that you are legally liable for any subsequent bites.

We were devastated, but I always told myself that I would put down a biting dog. I firmly believe that human safety comes first. It was right before Christmas, 6 years ago. That Spring the animal control lady (we briefly had one and she was aware of our tragedy) told us about the lab litter. We got our lab Spirit, and 10 months later we got our Border Collie/Australian Shepherd Kipper, who was our neighbor's pup, the same age as ours, thanks to their divorce.

I had to get rid of a lab that had bitten a vet tech and nipped at my niece's face. I believe human safety comes first as well. I could have saved that dog but I couldn't get my niece to leave him alone. He nipped her while I was sleeping. It made me cry to let him go. I'm pretty sure he was put down. It was a month before Christmas. But I got Max, my Rott mix, and he is the greatest dog ever.

That sucks that yours and ours couldn't be saved. If there were only enough resources to be able to do so for all of those dogs out there.

 

[MyOwnDrum]

the silver lining is that we befriended the owners of the mom of our lab and are getting ready to go there for a New Year's Eve get together there. We'll be roasting wienies on a bonfire, out in the snow.

 

[MyOwnDrum]

And drinking beer and wine. A good thing after a good day of snowboarding.

 

[Thorgasm]

That's why its so important to mimic wolf behavior and for the owner to establish himself as 'alpha'. For the less assertive individuals, better to obtain a female or a dog from a more docile breed. Also, The Monks of New Skeet have some excellent tips on choosing a pup from the litter that is not likely to be domineering.

Females can be dominant. But yes, selection of the dog for your home has to be more than, "He/she's so cute."

Cesar just had an episode on where he was picking out puppies and one lady was surprised at the dog he picked. She bred show miniature schnauzers and the one she thought he would pick was a great show dog, but the one he wanted had the right energy and demeanor.

BTW, The Monks of New Skeet is really hard for me to read with a straight face. :lol:

I'm sure they give great advice and am not trying to discredit them. Just given American slang and homosexuality in the Church, it's a rather humorous name. :mrgreen:

 

[MyOwnDrum]

Females can be dominant. But yes, selection of the dog for your home has to be more than, "He/she's so cute."

Cesar just had an episode on where he was picking out puppies and one lady was surprised at the dog he picked. She bred show miniature schnauzers and the one she thought he would pick was a great show dog, but the one he wanted had the right energy and demeanor.

BTW, The Monks of New Skeet is really hard for me to read with a straight face. :lol:

I'm sure they give great advice and am not trying to discredit them. Just given American slang and homosexuality in the Church, it's a rather humorous name. :mrgreen:

I guess I don't know what Skeet means in American slang. They live in upstate NY and were originally Byzantine Catholics but realigned with the Eastern Orthodox Church at some point in time.

 

[ScummyD]

Cesar Millan has rehabilitated hundreds of pit bulls. You can control them. They have to be taught.

As I said, you can train them to be good dogs, but you can never erase instinct.

 

[Thorgasm]

As I said, you can train them to be good dogs, but you can never erase instinct.

You can train a labrador retreiver to not attack ducks and chickens. You can fulfill their instincts in other ways. This is why they are so good as service dogs and police dogs.

 

[Tsunami]

Different breeds do have different instincts that need to be nurtured. They need mental and physical stimulation to fulfill that need. Sure, no two dogs are alike, but their basic way of communicating is the same and they all follow a pack leader.

I think the very concept of a "lone wolf" proves that to be untrue. Some dogs are not well suited to a pack. And even in packs, alpha wolves are often challenged by other wolves. Submission may be neither natural nor permanent.

Some breeds are not well suited to certain tasks or environments. You yourself admit this. The statistics show that wolf hybrids, pit bulls, presa canarios and rottweilers are more dangerous to humans. That seems like an important factor for a family pet.

But yes, selection of the dog for your home has to be more than, "He/she's so cute."

 

[Kali]

I do not trust pitbulls but love chows. Go figure. I hate the little yappy small rat type dogs. Give me a bigdog over the little terrors anyday

 

[TheGirlNextDoor]

I do not trust pitbulls but love chows. Go figure. I hate the little yappy small rat type dogs. Give me a bigdog over the little terrors anyday

I had two chow-chows once. They were both very well behaved and loved kids. They both lived to be 13 before they passed and now I have two Labs. LOVE big dogs.

 

[Thorgasm]

I think the very concept of a "lone wolf" proves that to be untrue. Some dogs are not well suited to a pack. And even in packs, alpha wolves are often challenged by other wolves. Submission may be neither natural nor permanent.

Wolves aren't dogs. Though they are related, wolves aren't domesticated. "Lone wolves" are usually wolves in between packs. Either they are older and have been ousted from a pack or they are younger and searching out their own pack. It is even possible for two "lone wolves" to form their own pack. Wolves hunt best in a pack. They can survive on smaller prey and by scavenging.

Submission is normal. Every wolf practices it during their life. Their mothers demand it. Before they have their own pack, the pack leaders demand it from them. Of course it isn't permanent, as they live in the now, not in the past or the future.

Some breeds are not well suited to certain tasks or environments. You yourself admit this. The statistics show that wolf hybrids, pit bulls, presa canarios and rottweilers are more dangerous to humans. That seems like an important factor for a family pet.

You make it sound like these breeds are not suitable pets. That is not true. Sure, it isn't a good idea to have a high energy large breed dog around small children. They don't have to be aggressive to hurt small children. They can knock them over just due to excitement. This is why it is so important that the adults teach these dogs to be respectful and gentle around children. If you do not have the knowledge to teach these dogs this, you shouldn't have one in these situations. Sans the wolf hybrids, any healthy dog can be a great pet with the right owner. The problem is that many owners aren't educated in how to read what their dog is telling them and how to create rules, boundaries, and limitations for them. People shouldn't blame the breed, but should blame the owners for not taking the measures necessary to control their dog.

 

[Thorgasm]

I do not trust pitbulls but love chows. Go figure. I hate the little yappy small rat type dogs. Give me a bigdog over the little terrors anyday

Chows have a reputation for not always being friendly too. I have a chow mix and a rottweiler mix. Both are sweet as hell.

 

[Thorgasm]

I had two chow-chows once. They were both very well behaved and loved kids. They both lived to be 13 before they passed and now I have two Labs. LOVE big dogs.

I love big dogs too!

 

[Tsunami]

You make it sound like these breeds are not suitable pets. That is not true. Sure, it isn't a good idea to have a high energy large breed dog around small children. They don't have to be aggressive to hurt small children. They can knock them over just due to excitement. This is why it is so important that the adults teach these dogs to be respectful and gentle around children. If you do not have the knowledge to teach these dogs this, you shouldn't have one in these situations. Sans the wolf hybrids, any healthy dog can be a great pet with the right owner. The problem is that many owners aren't educated in how to read what their dog is telling them and how to create rules, boundaries, and limitations for them. People shouldn't blame the breed, but should blame the owners for not taking the measures necessary to control their dog.

I blame the owner when someone is attacked, but I blame the breed for being dangerous in the first place. All dog breeds are wolf hybrids, if you go back far enough. Some are more domesticated than others.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

As I said, you can train them to be good dogs, but you can never erase instinct.

My pitbull's instinct is to herd the cats around the house and watch over our bunny. She's very protective. You're spinning that instinct as if it is only negative, rather than something that can be positive.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

All dog breeds are wolf hybrids, if you go back far enough. Some are more domesticated than others.

That has more to do with individual owners than it does breeds. Training a dog to have nice manners and to know her place is something that every dog owner is responsible for.