Pence: Abortion will end in U.S. 'in our time'

[ecofarm]

Today, reproductive rights are limited to pregnancy. Reproductive rights do not exist outside of pregnancy per woman who is pregnant. If you think some such right exists... please point out any law which regulates, protects, recognizes, or mentions such a right.

Access to safe, voluntary family planning is a human right. Family planning is central to gender equality and women’s empowerment, and it is a key factor in reducing poverty. Yet in developing regions, some 214 million women who want to avoid pregnancy are not using safe and effective family planning methods, for reasons ranging from lack of access to information or services to lack of support from their partners or communities. This threatens their ability to build a better future for themselves, their families and their communities.

https://www.unfpa.org/family-planning

 

[Celebrity]

https://www.unfpa.org/family-planning

:lol:

Family planning, good one!

Where in that article is an opt out for men? I'm not going to even bother clicking on it.

 

[Lursa]

:lol:

Family planning, good one!

Where in that article is an opt out for men? I'm not going to even bother clicking on it.

You avoided many posts back further in this thread that clearly explained that men can opt out of fatherhood if they choose to. You just dont like that that occurs before having sex....

And you were unable to respect the taxpayers enough to stop insisting that we pay for a man and women's responsibilities when they are available to do so.

I can just start cutting and pasting it all again...you havent come up with anything new.

 

[Celebrity]

You avoided many posts back further in this thread that clearly explained that men can opt out of fatherhood if they choose to. You just dont like that that occurs before having sex....

And you were unable to respect the taxpayers enough to stop insisting that we pay for a man and women's responsibilities when they are available to do so.

I can just start cutting and pasting it all again...you havent come up with anything new.

Really? I avoided that? I thought you avoided explaining why women ought to have sex and keep their choices, but men who have sex lose their choices.

I can just cut and paste your posts and change the gender to expose your sexism against men. And so I will! Here's another satire of your ignorant commentary,

"women can opt out of motherhood if they choose to. You just dont like that that occurs before having sex...."

Now please explain why women need the right to have an abortion. I guess you wouldn't mind that right being taken away, if people can make all of their choices before they have sex.

 

[ecofarm]

:lol:

Family planning, good one!

Where in that article is an opt out for men? I'm not going to even bother clicking on it.

The opt out for men is simple: only have sex with women who agree with your position on having a baby. Due diligence, buddy. Don't screw yourself.

 

[Celebrity]

The opt out for men is simple: only have sex with women who agree with your position on having a baby. Due diligence, buddy. Don't screw yourself.

Let's do another satire!

"The opt out for women is simple: only have sex with men who agree with your position on having a baby. Due diligence, buddy. Don't screw yourself."

In other words, who needs choices? Just don't screw yourself. But I guess you were against a woman's choice in the first place, right?

 

[Lursa]

Really? I avoided that? I thought you avoided explaining why women ought to have sex and keep their choices, but men who have sex lose their choices.

I can just cut and paste your posts and change the gender to expose your sexism against men. And so I will! Here's another satire of your ignorant commentary,

"women can opt out of motherhood if they choose to. You just dont like that that occurs before having sex...."

Now please explain why women need the right to have an abortion. I guess you wouldn't mind that right being taken away, if people can make all of their choices before they have sex.

Women have more choices, at different times. Biology determines that, stop whining about it. You dont see women whining about being the ones that have to risk their lives to give birth.

And you can keep cutting and pasting the reverse as you have already...and I'll keep re-inserting women and showing you're wrong. It's been easy so far.

Women dont 'need' the right to abortion. Women 'have' the right to abortion. Please explain how, Constitutionally, that can be removed.

 

[Lursa]

The opt out for men is simple: only have sex with women who agree with your position on having a baby. Due diligence, buddy. Don't screw yourself.

From other posts, he is very bitter over paying child support. Apparently he has presented his views to a judge in family court and they were dismissed....:roll:

 

[Celebrity]

Women have more choices, at different times. Biology determines that, stop whining about it. You dont see women whining about being the ones that have to risk their lives to give birth.

And you can keep cutting and pasting the reverse as you have already...and I'll keep re-inserting women and showing you're wrong. It's been easy so far.

Women dont 'need' the right to abortion. Women 'have' the right to abortion. Please explain how, Constitutionally, that can be removed.

I'm not whining about it. You are whining about women having to make hard choices, like having your own biological issues gives you a license to abuse men.

Wait hang on. Do you think that by reinserting women, you can show that it's not discriminatory against men? That's not how this works. When I make a statement about a person which is true for only one gender, and not the other, it's discriminatory. When I make a general statement which is true for both genders, then it isn't discriminatory. Does that make sense, now?
:lol:

Ok, so I understand that you aren't willing to treat men with dignity. But here's another question for you.

The premise is that men are required to pay for a woman's choice. If men are required to make this payment because they aren't female, then that makes women a liability. If having sex with a woman could result in a 'mistake,' that is a woman making a poor decision, then should women carry insurance to compensate men? I'm referring to a series of one or more bad choices made by a woman as a single 'mistake' and not a child born as a result of that mistake.

So what do you think? Should women pay men because they aren't good at making choices for themselves and have to rely on others to take care of their problems for them?

From other posts, he is very bitter over paying child support. Apparently he has presented his views to a judge in family court and they were dismissed....:roll:

I presented factual evidence which was not dismissed on the basis of its relevance or validity, but because the judge was made uncomfortable by it.

Indeed, states have been sued for violating the 13th amendment with regard to child support enforcement. It is very costly for the state, and no judge wants to enforce the law incorrectly... so they just ignore the law and pretend it's not there. This is authority with discretion, and it also shows up in fascism.

 

[Lursa]

I'm not whining about it. You are whining about women having to make hard choices, like having your own biological issues gives you a license to abuse men.

Dont be silly, I'm not whining about anything...maybe you've gotten confused when you interchanged 'women' for 'men' in your little scenarios! Because those certainly are whiny. :lamo :lamo

 

[Lursa]

Ok, so I understand that you aren't willing to treat men with dignity. But here's another question for you.

Not at all. *I* keep writing that men are capable of completely controlling themselves and making good decisions about who they have sex with.

*You* keep posting that that is just not acceptable...so you're saying men cant? THAT is rather undignified, now isnt it?

 

[Celebrity]

Not at all. *I* keep writing that men are capable of completely controlling themselves and making good decisions about who they have sex with.

*You* keep posting that that is just not acceptable...so you're saying men cant? THAT is rather undignified, now isnt it?

What are you talking about? It's unacceptable to oppress men. You want men to be sexually repressed. Men should have the right to decline to pay for a woman's choice. Women have the right to do so. If we want women and men to be treated equally in a court of law, then neither gender should be better equipped to avoid the responsibility of parentage.

Let me know what part of that you didn't understand.

You think men are capable of controlling themselves and making good decisions. Why aren't women capable of doing the same thing?

 

[Lursa]

The premise is that men are required to pay for a woman's choice.

Men (or any non-custodial parent) are required to pay for a child produced by their own personal sexual activity.

Men are aware of this before they have sex. Again...are you saying men are incapable of considering this risk before having sex? Are you saying they are not willing to pay the consequences that they knowingly took a chance in paying?

My my, it seems you still see men as weak and stupid, while I on the other hand, know that they are capable of such.

And you accuse me of treating men in an undignified manner? :doh :lamo

 

[ecofarm]

From other posts, he is very bitter over paying child support. Apparently he has presented his views to a judge in family court and they were dismissed....:roll:

I've seen that variety of "opt out" narrative before. Dead beats playing the victim.

 

[Celebrity]

Men (or any non-custodial parent) are required to pay for a child produced by their own personal sexual activity.

Men are aware of this before they have sex. Again...are you saying men are incapable of considering this risk before having sex? Are you saying they are not willing to pay the consequences that they knowingly took a chance in paying?

My my, it seems you still see men as weak and stupid, while I on the other hand, know that they are capable of such.

And you accuse me of treating men in an undignified manner? :doh :lamo

I am accusing you of treating men in an undignified manner. And I don't think your abusive language is funny at all. I do find your inability to form a cogent argument slightly ironic, however.

Again, the satire is meant to show that your argument is discriminatory. It's discriminatory because it removes the need for rights, and replaces it with an a priori responsibility. When this is true for both men and women, it essentially requires pregnant women to carry a pregnancy to term.

You are arguing that men should not have a choice in whether or not they become parents, and that the choice is made for them by someone else. When the same argument is used against women, it's clear that a choice is made for women by someone else.

Do you support autonomous decision making, and abortion rights for women, or don't you? I understand that you won't support it for men but I hope that you can see your obvious hypocrisy and at least admit that it is a discriminatory argument.

 

[Lursa]

What are you talking about? It's unacceptable to oppress men. You want men to be sexually repressed. Men should have the right to decline to pay for a woman's choice. Women have the right to do so. If we want women and men to be treated equally in a court of law, then neither gender should be better equipped to avoid the responsibility of parentage.

Let me know what part of that you didn't understand.

You think men are capable of controlling themselves and making good decisions. Why aren't women capable of doing the same thing?

So then you think women should be forced to remain pregnant? Or forced to have abortions? Cool...let us know what Constitutional foundation will make that a reality.

Um...and are you saying that men arent aware of those options for women? Are men incapable of making decisions to protect themselves from that? Again...you make men sound weak and stupid.

I'm guessing that's because when some men are forced to pay up for their own carelessness when they knew the possible consequences...those feelings were upfront and center....with the knowledge they 'took a shot and lost'...bummer for those guys. Easier just to blame women for actions that men are totally capable of controlling. If you knowingly put your future in the hands of a woman who has control over her own reproductive decisions and arent willing to accept the consequences...you are stupid.

 

[Lursa]

I am accusing you of treating men in an undignified manner. And I don't think your abusive language is funny at all. I do find your inability to form a cogent argument slightly ironic, however.

Again, the satire is meant to show that your argument is discriminatory. It's discriminatory because it removes the need for rights, and replaces it with an a priori responsibility. When this is true for both men and women, it essentially requires pregnant women to carry a pregnancy to term.

You are arguing that men should not have a choice in whether or not they become parents, and that the choice is made for them by someone else. When the same argument is used against women, it's clear that a choice is made for women by someone else.

Do you support autonomous decision making, and abortion rights for women, or don't you? I understand that you won't support it for men but I hope that you can see your obvious hypocrisy and at least admit that it is a discriminatory argument.

Of course I do for women. Men have total autonomy in their decisions on who they have sex with...so they have total control too. Until they decide one way or the other.

*Btw, I dont think men are weak and stupid...but the way you post about them, YOU make them sound like that)

The judge in family court didnt accept your 'theory,' and no one else does either. Doesnt that tell you anything?

 

[Removable Mind]

What are you talking about? It's unacceptable to oppress men. You want men to be sexually repressed. Men should have the right to decline to pay for a woman's choice. Women have the right to do so. If we want women and men to be treated equally in a court of law, then neither gender should be better equipped to avoid the responsibility of parentage.

Let me know what part of that you didn't understand.

You think men are capable of controlling themselves and making good decisions. Why aren't women capable of doing the same thing?

Can you, as a man, prevent yourself from becoming pregnant?

You’re mad as hell at all of the wrong people. Forget the words sex, woman, uterus, fetus...and make your argument to the powers that are. They don’t give a flying rats ass who got who pregnant. Once a kid is present the powers that are don’t care how are why they are here. If they can’t fend for themselves - somebody’s going to. Guess who’s first on the collection plate list?

 

[Celebrity]

So then you think women should be forced to remain pregnant? Or forced to have abortions? Cool...let us know what Constitutional foundation will make that a reality.

I obviously don't think that. I have repeatedly stated that I don't think that, however your argument against men is consistent with that position.

Um...and are you saying that men arent aware of those options for women? Are men incapable of making decisions to protect themselves from that? Again...you make men sound weak and stupid.

I don't think you have fully grasped the meaning of the argument. I never said that men aren't aware of the options women have, and I never implied it, so I don't understand why you think that's what I meant. I am simply stating that it is discriminatory for women to have more options than men.

I'm guessing that's because when some men are forced to pay up for their own carelessness when they knew the possible consequences...those feelings were upfront and center....with the knowledge they 'took a shot and lost'...bummer for those guys. Easier just to blame women for actions that men are totally capable of controlling. If you knowingly put your future in the hands of a woman who has control over her own reproductive decisions and arent willing to accept the consequences...you are stupid.

No, some men are forced to pay up for a woman's carelessness. It's her choice, not his. If she makes her choice carelessly, that's not on him.

The existence of possible consequences under certain circumstances does not change the fact that women have access to more choices. Hence, if a pregnant woman decides to give birth, she does so with complete control over her life as well as a source of income for the next 18 years of involuntary servitude if she decides she wants more money from the biological father.

Why does the source of income come from the biological father? Other poor people who need a handout just go around begging for it, or ask the government.

 

[Celebrity]

Can you, as a man, prevent yourself from becoming pregnant?

You’re mad as hell at all of the wrong people. Forget the words sex, woman, uterus, fetus...and make your argument to the powers that are. They don’t give a flying rats ass who got who pregnant. Once a kid is present the powers that are don’t care how are why they are here. If they can’t fend for themselves - somebody’s going to. Guess who’s first on the collection plate list?

I'm mad as hell at all the wrong people? Well, I'm not mad at anyone for getting pregnant.

Please explain why a biological father is financially responsible. Why is he first on the collection plate list?

 

[Removable Mind]

I'm mad as hell at all the wrong people? Well, I'm not mad at anyone for getting pregnant.

Please explain why a biological father is financially responsible. Why is he first on the collection plate list?

I don’t make the laws. Nobody in this forum make the laws. Nobody in this forum can give you the answer in a way that you want to hear it.

 

[Celebrity]

I don’t make the laws. Nobody in this forum make the laws. Nobody in this forum can give you the answer in a way that you want to hear it.

I know that. But I'm looking for some consistency. See below.

Hey, Removable Mind, I'm glad you finally showed up.

Can you explain this argument to me from post #432, by chance?

And you can keep cutting and pasting the reverse as you have already...and I'll keep re-inserting women and showing you're wrong. It's been easy so far.

She thinks that it would be logically consistent to just use women and ignore men? I just don't know how anyone would be able to even pretend that's not wrong.

Like if I made a racist statement about Hispanic people and then changed the race to African American. Oh now it's not racist anymore.

 

[Lursa]

If you knowingly put your future in the hands of a woman who has control over her own reproductive decisions and arent willing to accept the consequences...you are stupid.

No, some men are forced to pay up for a woman's carelessness. It's her choice, not his. If she makes her choice carelessly, that's not on him.
.

And the complete denial and victimization continues.

According to you...men have no ability to control their decisions and actions to protect themselves. What a sad sad depiction of men you present.

 

[Celebrity]

And the complete denial and victimization continues.

According to you...men have no ability to control their decisions and actions to protect themselves. What a sad sad depiction of men you present.

Actually... it is a little bit sad that the government incarcerates fathers. It's not the first time that the government has abused fathers by determining whether or not mothers should receive welfare on the basis of a father's unrelated behavior.

Specifically, queue the video at 1:39.

 

[Lursa]

I'm mad as hell at all the wrong people? Well, I'm not mad at anyone for getting pregnant.

Please explain why a biological father is financially responsible. Why is he first on the collection plate list?

The biological PARENTS are and that is because they are the ones that produced the kid...it is wholly their responsibility...it's certainly not the taxpayers'.

Good lord it's not rocket science. Men and women are held accountable for any kids they produce. If a man didnt want to risk producing a kid...what was his option?

Here you go: not to have sex with that women. A completely doable option...right? Or are you saying men arent capable of that?