Officer among 12 killed in mass shooting at bar in Thousand Oaks, California

[Skeptic Bob]

i'd check the competency of those that cleared him if he's had problems in the past.

One problem is that people can deteriorate over time.

 

[Bullseye]

Who is to say the man was from CA, or were he acquired the weapon. I will hold off until the facts are out. My thoughts go out to the folks in the club, damn you cant even go for a beer safely, its a sad reflection of our society.

I go out for a beer or stop off at my favorite pub often. I can get killed just as dead drivng on California roads.


What's scarier is that medical accidents in hospitals kill over 200,000. So, I guess that means if you survive the bar shooting things don't necessarily get better for you.

 

[Buzz62]

My point is that there is something wrong with this country culturally. There is something hard wired into our DNA that is absent in other western countries. We have unhealthy obsession with firearms.

It has nothing to do with DNA.
It has everything to do with the Constitution, and the way America was colonized.

Just as a side note...I've been strongly considering getting a gun to protect my family up here in Canuckland.
Both of my sons have been mugged, twice in our own neighborhood, and the police have told me flat out that they are essentially powerless.
The only thing that has kept me from doing so earlier, is that I know that should anyone break into my home with bad intensions, I'd have no problem blowing their head right off their shoulders. In Canuckland, that makes me guilty of murder.

 

[ecofarm]

we have NO idea what sort of mental state the man was in when he was interviewed and evaluated. He well could have deteriorated in the last several months.

What are we gonna say was the miss? I see two choices:

1. Mental healthcare.
2. Gun laws.

If you see a third option, let me know. I'm going with mental healthcare improvements and that might include additional education and training for cops dealing with field psychological evaluations. And, after field cops take a look, lets improve education and training for the cops and other professionals that take it from there.

 

[Saladin4]

Gun banner tactic #2-appeal to emotion and ignore logic

Most Americans stand in support of the victims...Not the NRA Gun nuts and their paranoid rants about "gun grabbers"

 

[danarhea]

Yeah, over the last year or two, we've had a couple of incidents where the shooter gets into a fight or argument, leaves the bar, goes out to his car and comes back in shooting.

So, it's six of one, half-dozen of the other. Is it better to allow gun carry into drinking establishments or to prohibit it? Arguments can be made both ways.

No it can't. Allowing the bringing of guns into places where people are freakin' drunk? That's just freakin' nuts.

 

[Buzz62]

true and it doesn't mean a brilliant Gay either!

ROFLMAO!
Good one TurtleDude.

 

[TurtleDude]

Most Americans stand in support of the victims...Not the NRA Gun nuts and their paranoid rants about "gun grabbers"

only hateful gun banners pretend the choice is victims and the NRA. You are on record wanting to ban guns and yet you pretend people are paranoid when they point to people who think-or feel-like you do

 

[TurtleDude]

No it can't. Allowing the bringing guns into places where people are freakin' drunk? That's just freakin' nuts.

its allowed in Ohio if you aren't drinking. If you are packing and drinking-you are at-a minimum-going to lose your CCW permit. If you are drunk-that's a felony

 

[Bullseye]

you might have to have nation wide gun control laws or those wiley criminals may just ship them over state borders on the other hand maybe this guy legally owned his weapons under the strictest of standards any way

And, of course, those wiley criminals will follow those national gun laws.

 

[Trippy Trekker]

Ian David Long
WHITE MALE
FROM NEWBURY PARK, CA
VETERAN USMC WITH PTSD
DOB 3-27-1990 AGE 28
GUN: .45 CAL GLOCK 21
MINOR POLICE RECORD OF BATTERY, DISTURBANCE, TRAFFIC VIOLATIONS,...
CLEARED BY MENTAL HEALTH AFTER EVALUATION...
NEGATIVE 51-50
https://twitter.com/The_News_UNIT

He apparently changed his appearance by the time of the shooting. At least one eye-witness inside the bar described Ian Long as a tall white male dressed in all black, bearded and wearing glasses.

Everything so far about this incident smells of a young man, maybe an incel, inflicted with PTSD-like mental illness. Nothing points to political animus.

 

[Bullseye]

Eh. Maybe the synagogue shooter was 'just looking for crowds' too.

Yeah, but didn't he make his anti-Semitic view known for quite a while before the shooting? I don't think the LV shooter filled social media with his dislike of country music.

 

[trixare4kids]

What are we gonna say was the miss? I see two choices:

1. Mental healthcare.
2. Gun laws.

If you see a third option, let me know. I'm going with mental healthcare improvements and that might include additional education and training for cops dealing with field psychological evaluations. And, after field cops take a look, lets improve education and training for the cops and other professionals that take it from there.

I don't think anyone would have a problem with your suggestion.

 

[trixare4kids]

Most Americans stand in support of the victims...Not the NRA Gun nuts and their paranoid rants about "gun grabbers"

Most Americans do not stand with your childish nonsense because in fact, MOST Americans already stand in support of the victims.

 

[danarhea]

its allowed in Ohio if you aren't drinking. If you are packing and drinking-you are at-a minimum-going to lose your CCW permit. If you are drunk-that's a felony

In Texas, they go by the 51% rule. If an establishment makes 51% or more of it's earnings from alcohol, then they are required to put up a 51% sign at the entrance. Anybody, other than law enforcement, who enters while carrying a gun, commits a felony, punishable by up to 10 years in prison.

 

[ecofarm]

I don't think anyone would have a problem with your suggestion.

And we shouldn't have a problem with suggesting that we, as a society, missed on the mental health angle here. So why not the left and right get together on that. We could improve mental healthcare.

 

[trixare4kids]

He apparently changed his appearance by the time of the shooting. At least one eye-witness inside the bar described Ian Long as a tall white male dressed in all black, bearded and wearing glasses.

Everything so far about this incident smells of a young man, maybe an incel, inflicted with PTSD-like mental illness. Nothing points to political animus.

Whatever it was, he deteriorated rapidly.

 

[TurtleDude]

In Texas, they go by the 51% rule. If an establishment makes 51% or more of it's earnings from alcohol, then they are required to put up a 51% sign at the entrance. Anybody, other than law enforcement, who enters while carrying a gun, commits a felony, punishable by up to 10 years in prison.

I wouldn't support such a law. I like the Rule in Ohio. I often used to eat at the bar at Fridays near where I live. I haven't had a drink in years. Fridays wouldn't meet the 51% rule though

 

[Lursa]

My point is that there is something wrong with this country culturally. There is something hard wired into our DNA that is absent in other western countries. We have unhealthy obsession with firearms.

I guess we'll just have to disagree on that, for the most part.

IMO...and there's evidence in the data...that this is a subset of disenfranchised men that blame everyone else for their failures and problems that we...our culture as you write...are creating and we need to learn to identify and track and help or stop them from harming others.

I believe the bold is where we have common ground.

 

[Lursa]

I don't think anyone would have a problem with your suggestion.

Except that you did when I wrote it.

All that education of the cops and mental health people doing evaluations means nothing without then "having the legal ability to actually act on it." Which you dismissed with a blanket, 'that violates their civil rights!'

 

[HenryChinaski]

I guess we'll just have to disagree on that, for the most part.

IMO...and there's evidence in the data...that this is a subset of disenfranchised men that blame everyone else for their failures and problems that we...our culture as you write...are creating and we need to learn to identify and track and help or stop them from harming others.

I believe the bold is where we have common ground.

Those addicted to firearms purchase firearms like they're merit badges. They are accumulating small arms less out of devotion to hunting or defense, but rather because the process is some sort of cultural signifier. At best, purchasing a firearm is a way to buy membership in “real America.” At worst, purchasing a firearm is yet another way to “own the libs.”

 

[Bullseye]

No it can't. Allowing the bringing of guns into places where people are freakin' drunk? That's just freakin' nuts.

Yeah, better to leave them out in the parking lot so there can only ever be ONE gun doing the shooting in a crowded bar. :roll:

 

[Media_Truth]

California has all this. Why didn't it stop this shooting in California?

Show me a link that shows that California has a National Database, linked into the FBI, and Police throughout the United States.

 

[Media_Truth]

Those addicted to firearms purchase firearms like they're merit badges. They are accumulating small arms less out of devotion to hunting or defense, but rather because the process is some sort of cultural signifier. At best, purchasing a firearm is a way to buy membership in “real America.” At worst, purchasing a firearm is yet another way to “own the libs.”

 

[Lursa]

Those addicted to firearms purchase firearms like they're merit badges. They are accumulating small arms less out of devotion to hunting or defense, but rather because the process is some sort of cultural signifier. At best, purchasing a firearm is a way to buy membership in “real America.” At worst, purchasing a firearm is yet another way to “own the libs.”

Who are these people? What kind of BS is that? If it is a cultural identifier, how is it different than our obsession with cars? Or women collecting shoes? Or just being a ridiculously consumeristic culture, period.

And I am a liberal Dem. I just call BS on this except for maybe a very very small subset of people, just like fits any special interest group. This is by no means prevalent among gun owners in the US.