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North Korea openly threatens EMP attack for the first time, changing the game

Goshin said:
I've been hearing NK saber-rattling for decades, but this **** is getting a little too real for comfort lately.
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What if we had nuked China like MacArthur suggested in the 50's?

We stayed in Vietnam because we believed in the Domino Theory which claimed that if Vietnam fell other nations in Asia would all fall like dominoes to communists. Vietnam fell but the dominoes didn't.

So, to your: what if we do nothing and regret it later? I'll add my what if we start an unnecessary war killing millions of people?

It's possible that 20 years from now we see mass protests in NK and the toppling of the regime just as we saw with the fall of the Berlin wall.

It seems to me that sanctions against totalitarian governments only solidifies their control over their people.
 
Goshin said:
He's kind of got a point, Spud.

I dread the idea of military action in Korea. Totally dread it. Bad Things will happen.


But what is it going to take to appease Lil' Kim? Now that he thinks he's got a Big Stick?

If we just leave him alone? Doubt it. He wants stuff. Foreign aid for his starving people, so he can keep spending all his nation's money on weapons. What will he demand next? Full US withdrawal from the Pennensula? Do that and odds are we're handing SK and all its people and wealth over to Kim, then Kim is really Japan's next-door neighbor.


EMP is a very serious threat. I've spent a lot of time in electrical utilities, seen EMP analysis... it could be really ugly. No power most places for weeks or months... could take years to get it all back. The cascade effects could be huge. Tens of millions could die as the distribution system breaks down. Full economic recovery could take a generation.


I hope some good brains are trying to find a solution that doesn't involve war... but Kim is really pushing the envelope here, and there's no guarantee appeasement wouldn't end up being even worse over the long haul.


I've been hearing NK saber-rattling for decades, but this **** is getting a little too real for comfort lately.
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Nuclear weapons are a security blanket for the Kim regime. Despite popular belief, the Kim dynasty is quite rational, they seek to perpetuate their regime, and nuclear weapons are the only safeguard they have against the super-powers. But, and this is the balance, if NK does take any military actions against its neighbours, or the US, that will be the end of the regime. The nuclear deterrent Kim has only works for as long as NK doesn't strike first. Kim can afford a nuclear war far less than the US or China.

It's getting to real for you because now Kim has the ability to strike the US, you're only considering first strike now because you're starting to see things from the point of view of the Korean and Japanese people, who've been under such threats for decades.
 
spud_meister said:
Nuclear weapons are a security blanket for the Kim regime. Despite popular belief, the Kim dynasty is quite rational, they seek to perpetuate their regime, and nuclear weapons are the only safeguard they have against the super-powers. But, and this is the balance, if NK does take any military actions against its neighbours, or the US, that will be the end of the regime. The nuclear deterrent Kim has only works for as long as NK doesn't strike first. Kim can afford a nuclear war far less than the US or China.

It's getting to real for you because now Kim has the ability to strike the US, you're only considering first strike now because you're starting to see things from the point of view of the Korean and Japanese people, who've been under such threats for decades.
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Well when he (or maybe china) starts threatening your home, serious threats that could maybe be carried out, we'd see how much you like it. My guess is, not so much.
 
Yes indeed the NK can claim anything they care to claim but there is no indication they have fusion bombs just to start with.

An given what we know about EMP it would take one hell of a big fusion bomb to do any wide spread harm to the US.

So all in all I would not loss a moment of sleep over such an attack by NK.
 
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spud_meister said:
Nuclear weapons are a security blanket for the Kim regime. Despite popular belief, the Kim dynasty is quite rational, they seek to perpetuate their regime, and nuclear weapons are the only safeguard they have against the super-powers. But, and this is the balance, if NK does take any military actions against its neighbours, or the US, that will be the end of the regime. The nuclear deterrent Kim has only works for as long as NK doesn't strike first. Kim can afford a nuclear war far less than the US or China.

It's getting to real for you because now Kim has the ability to strike the US, you're only considering first strike now because you're starting to see things from the point of view of the Korean and Japanese people, who've been under such threats for decades.
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Ya but destabilizing the world further by spreading nuclear arms and tech around pretty much counts as an offensive move.....a striking out at the global community.
 
We have two fools, Kim Jung-un and Donald Trump pushing us to the brink of war with their childish irresponsible threats.

If NK attacks it will be destroyed. But attacking NK because we think it may attack in the future is silly. Attacking them because they won't end their nuclear program is also foolish.

I have friends in South Korea. I'm afraid Trump will get them killed.

The current short-sighted plan seems to be to back NK into a corner where they have to choose to fight or surrender. Humans don't always make the logical choice.
 
Goshin said:
Well when he (or maybe china) starts threatening your home, serious threats that could maybe be carried out, we'd see how much you like it. My guess is, not so much.
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You might want to rethink that post of yours a bit. It's the Americans that are becoming acquainted with the danger, not those in the Pacific. We stand out because we are the mightiest empire in the world and have been on their minds since the Korean War. Nevertheless, South Korea, Japan, China, Russia, and Australia have typically had more to consider than the U.S.

Australia has been threatened by North Korea due to its alliance with the United States and has been well within striking distance for an attack. Australia is also without an ABM system, if you suppose that the absence of that is an invitation more than actually having one (that's a debate).

Given North Korea's still fragile deterrence capability, striking Australia is a calculation that North Korea could easily make in the event of an attack on the regime.
 
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Goshin said:
Well when he (or maybe china) starts threatening your home, serious threats that could maybe be carried out, we'd see how much you like it. My guess is, not so much.
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russia threatened us for a time as well have they launched?
 
This is what worries me about Trump.

Staff: It's not necessary Mr. President, we have a diplomatic solution.

Trump: Mr. Vice President, Mr. Secretary, the missiles are flying. Hallelujah, Halleluja!

 
People need to stop freaking out every time NK does something we did sixty+ years ago.

Kim Jong Un does not want to attack us and start a war, nor does he want to invade South Korea, or attack Japan. All of that is just fantasy - from the people that predicted his program was nowhere near this level no less. He simply wants to deter the US and others from trying what we've done all over the world - a military coup. The list of countries we've overthrown because we didn't like their leadership is endless, and we've got an extensive track record of double crossing people after they agree to disarmament. KJU and the NK military are sending us a message: 'don't try any of that **** you try with other regimes' nothing else.

Attacking them would be insane as it would result in a retaliation towards SK, and the loss of life would be on scales not seen in decades.

Better option: Try diplomacy and if that doesn't work, we put missiles in SK, and conduct our own missile tests as a flex of muscle.
 
MaggieD said:
Do you remember the Cuban missile crisis? What finally turned that Russian ship around?
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Reluctance by both the Russians and the U.S.; careful multi-stage planning on the U.S. side; discrete back channel communications; allowing both sides to save face publicly while they make a trade; careful to ignore Cuba's handling of the situation (seriously--there were moments that the U.S. ignored that could have devastated USSR and US desire to end this peacefully); U.S. quietly dismantles Turkey and Italy missile systems.
 
Fiddytree said:
Reluctance by both the Russians and the U.S.; careful multi-stage planning on the U.S. side; discrete back channel communications; allowing both sides to save face publicly while they make a trade; U.S. quietly dismantles Turkey and Italy missile systems.
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Very well done.
 
MovingPictures said:
People need to stop freaking out every time NK does something we did sixty+ years ago.

Kim Jong Un does not want to attack us and start a war, nor does he want to invade South Korea, or attack Japan. All of that is just fantasy - from the people that predicted his program was nowhere near this level no less. He simply wants to deter the US and others from trying what we've done all over the world - a military coup. The list of countries we've overthrown because we didn't like their leadership is endless, and we've got an extensive track record of double crossing people after they agree to disarmament. KJU and the NK military are sending us a message: 'don't try any of that **** you try with other regimes' nothing else.

Attacking them would be insane as it would result in a retaliation towards SK, and the loss of life would be on scales not seen in decades.

Better option: Try diplomacy and if that doesn't work, we put missiles in SK, and conduct our own missile tests as a flex of muscle.
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The problem of course with your take is that those in the know consider NK more Criminal Organization and less Country.
 
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Fiddytree said:
For what it's worth, the news bulletins you'll be getting now suggests a potential ICBM launch. Keep in mind that the South Koreans did a missile drill itself very recently. North Korea has done a lot of tit-for-tat lately.

https://apnews.com/87860ad5c6534c43bffcc7019a6911c9/The-Latest:-Report-says-North-may-be-readying-missile-launch?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP
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For what its worth expecting American Journalists to do good work is more a thing we used to do with the in the know set.

I Spect You Know.

EDIT: that a nation does not get so full of nit-wits who refuse to conversate correctly or work together even FOR THE KIDS! if journalism functioned.

Journalism was intended to prevent this tragedy.
 
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Better option: Try diplomacy and if that doesn't work, we put missiles in SK, and conduct our own missile tests as a flex of muscle.[/QUOTE]

Now that makes sense. The problem: Our politicians are not smart. Tell KIU it will only be a couple minutes to destroy all of NK.

But seriously, it is correct that their nuclear program is to preserve the Kim dynasty. And, China fears much more a united Korea under the south control.
So do not expect the Chinese to do anything more than lip service.
 
Glowpun said:
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Better option: Try diplomacy and if that doesn't work, we put missiles in SK, and conduct our own missile tests as a flex of muscle.
Now that makes sense. The problem: Our politicians are not smart. Tell KIU it will only be a couple minutes to destroy all of NK.

But seriously, it is correct that their nuclear program is to preserve the Kim dynasty. And, China fears much more a united Korea under the south control.
So do not expect the Chinese to do anything more than lip service.
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Why do you think the Chinese fear a unified Korea under the control of Seoul? S. Korea trades more with China right now than they do with anyone else, including America.
 
blueliner7 said:
Why do you think the Chinese fear a unified Korea under the control of Seoul? S. Korea trades more with China right now than they do with anyone else, including America.
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It's U.S.-backed in both alliance and governing ideology.
 
Fiddytree said:
It's U.S.-backed in both alliance and governing ideology.
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Alliance yes, Ideology no and even that is only due to the presence of North Korea. I think a unified Korea would be closer to Beijing than to Washington.
 
I think we should set a series of lines that go from mild to extreme in nature.

One of those options should definitely be the targeting of space junk as a show of the accuracy of our missile defense systems, and their ability to intercept targets. When the DoD shot down USA 193 it scared the **** out of Russia and China precisely because of the accuracy demonstrated. Perhaps we should intercept some space junk for show, and if the Russians have a problem with it, they can always kiss our ass.

Comparing NK missiles to ours is like comparing MS-DOS to Mac OS X technology wise.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
The problem of course with your take is that those in the know consider NK more Criminal Organization and less Country.
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Let them launder their Chinese money and sell their drugs - we do the same stuff.

If it keeps them in their international day care center, its fine by me.
 
MaggieD said:
I don't think the United States would ever rain down hellfire on NK without the okay from Russia and China. And they may be getting close. But if I recall what THINK about EMP technology, it isn't about human casualties. Perhaps we should show him how it's done... ?

In any case, too many presidents have let this happen. It's a horrible mess. I only wish I knew what it was that they wanted... How long are we willing to be threatened before we are compelled to act
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This is the vital question. What do they want?

Like you, I fear we may be compelled to act if this continues.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Ya but destabilizing the world further by spreading nuclear arms and tech around pretty much counts as an offensive move.....a striking out at the global community.
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To whom has NK given nuclear weapons?
 
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