No federal charges for New York policeman in 2014 'I can't breathe' death

[pamak]

Do you have any evidence at all that the local prosecutor withheld evidence from the grand jury or are you just blowing smoke?

This is about bias caused by conflict of interests. I can say the same thing with the medical examiners. The NYPD medical examiners came to a different conclusion to the examiner hired by the family. Because of all this, it makes sense to have the feds step in to bring a more o objective view instead of having them relying simply on what a grand jury in NY said.

 

[Napoleon]

This is about bias caused by conflict of interests. I can say the same thing with the medical examiners. The NYPD came to a different conclusion to the examiner hired by the family. Because of all this, it makes sense to have the feds step in to bring a more o objective view instead of having them relying simply on what a grand jury in NY said.

So the answer is that you’re just blowing smoke. And raising the usual rent-a-ME typical of these kinds of cases is thoroughly unconvincing.

 

[Fledermaus]

Resisting arrest does not justify

Medical examiner: Chokehold triggered Eric Garner'''s death

Hemorrhaging in Garner’s neck muscles

and does not justify keeping his head against the cement after he said "I cann't breathe" nor does it justify having 5 people on top of him

And the hemorrhage had what to do with his death?

He died of Asthma according to his autopsy.

The choke was not immediately fatal. Nor did it result in a crushed larynx or broke hyoid bone.

 

[tres borrachos]

This is about bias caused by conflict of interests. I can say the same thing with the medical examiners. The NYPD medical examiners came to a different conclusion to the examiner hired by the family. Because of all this, it makes sense to have the feds step in to bring a more o objective view instead of having them relying simply on what a grand jury in NY said.

Unlike the ME, who is trained in examining bodies to determine cause of death, the NYPD doctor (a hematologist, not an ME) never even examined Garner's body.

 

[Napoleon]

So it's okay for the police to kill you with an illegal chokehold as long as you're fat.

The chokehold was an indirect cause of death. He didn’t die right there on the pavement during a chokehold necessitated by his resistance to arrest. His direct cause of death was a heart attack an hour later.

 

[pamak]

I don’t agree. Don’t resist arrest and don’t get so fat that it requires 5 people to restrain you.

It did not actually require 5 people to immobilize him. Three people weigh as much as he did. And it did not require to keep his head against the cement after he showed signs of distress. As usual, the police state in the US overreacted.

 

[Napoleon]

It did not actually require 5 people to immobilize him. Three people weigh as much as he did. And it did not require to keep his head against the cement after he showed signs of distress. As usual, the police state in the US overreacted.

Lol. Maybe as defined by people who believe that anything other than allowing criminals to run amok is police brutality. The bottom line is that the person primarily responsible for Eric Garner’s death was, is, and always will be Eric Garner.

 

[tres borrachos]

And the hemorrhage had what to do with his death?

He died of Asthma according to his autopsy.

The choke was not immediately fatal. Nor did it result in a crushed larynx or broke hyoid bone.

The ME testified that the cause of death was the choke. The asthma was a contributing factor, meaning he didn't respond to the choke as someone without it may have. But asthma didn't cause his death.

Medical Examiner Rules Eric Garner's Death a Homicide, Says He Was Killed By Chokehold - NBC New York

 

[pamak]

Unlike the ME, who is trained in examining bodies to determine cause of death, the NYPD doctor (a hematologist, not an ME) never even examined Garner's body.

I was talking about this guy

NYPD chief surgeon determined Officer Pantaleo didn’t put Eric Garner in chokehold: attorney - New York Daily News

NYPD chief surgeon determined Officer Pantaleo didn’t put Eric Garner in chokehold:

On the other hand, experts from outside the NYPD said other things

Graphic Autopsy Photos Shown as Medical Examiner Testifies in Eric Garner Case - NBC New York

Describing the chokehold as the first event in a lethal cascade of events, Dr. Floriana Persechino said she found hemorrhages on muscles inside the neck, root of tongue and the back of his neck. She said there was a 2-inch hemorrhage in front of his larynx. The hemorrhages, she said, occurred around the time of Garner's death. She noted that she found no visible injuries under Garner's neck, but said in her medical opinion, the 43-year-old father was put in a chokehold.

Persechino clarified that "chokehold" or "neck hold" is also a forensic term.

My point is that local prosecutors can choose to bring in front of a grand jury whatever they want. There is nobody there from the other side to challenge them. And since these prosecutors want to maintain good relations with the police departments of their jurisdiction which cooperate with them, they have a certain bias in favor of the police officers.

 

[tres borrachos]

The chokehold was an indirect cause of death. He didn’t die right there on the pavement during a chokehold necessitated by his resistance to arrest. His direct cause of death was a heart attack an hour later.

You are again contradicting the ME's testimony. She is a trained expert on determining cause of death. Are you a trained medical examiner?

Medical Examiner Rules Eric Garner's Death a Homicide, Says He Was Killed By Chokehold - NBC New York

If you get shot, and don't die for 3 hours, does that mean the gunshot didn't actually kill you?

 

[beancounter]

Police officers convicted for fatal shootings are the exception, not the rule

 

[tres borrachos]

I was talking about this guy

NYPD chief surgeon determined Officer Pantaleo didn’t put Eric Garner in chokehold: attorney - New York Daily News

NYPD chief surgeon determined Officer Pantaleo didn’t put Eric Garner in chokehold:

On the other hand, experts from outside the NYPD said other things

Graphic Autopsy Photos Shown as Medical Examiner Testifies in Eric Garner Case - NBC New York

Describing the chokehold as the first event in a lethal cascade of events, Dr. Floriana Persechino said she found hemorrhages on muscles inside the neck, root of tongue and the back of his neck. She said there was a 2-inch hemorrhage in front of his larynx. The hemorrhages, she said, occurred around the time of Garner's death. She noted that she found no visible injuries under Garner's neck, but said in her medical opinion, the 43-year-old father was put in a chokehold.

Persechino clarified that "chokehold" or "neck hold" is also a forensic term.

That's who I was talking about too. Eli Kleinman. Kleinman is a hematologist and he never examined Garner's body.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

There sure is a lot of people who always look to the Federal Government to clean up a mess created by the state. If New York decided there aren't murder charges on the police officer, then so be it.

 

[pamak]

So the answer is that you’re just blowing smoke. And raising the usual rent-a-ME typical of these kinds of cases is thoroughly unconvincing.

Highlighting conflicts of interest is not blowing smoke. Trying to deny such conflict is blowing smoke to obscure a fair trial.

 

[Napoleon]

You are again contradicting the ME's testimony. She is a trained expert on determining cause of death. Are you a trained medical examiner?

Medical Examiner Rules Eric Garner's Death a Homicide, Says He Was Killed By Chokehold - NBC New York

If you get shot, and don't die for 3 hours, does that mean the gunshot didn't actually kill you?

What it means is that the ME took some liberties. As the NYPD Chief Surgeon pointed out after examining the ME’s notes, there was no damage to Garner’s trachea stemming from the chokehold and so it could not have been the direct cause of a death that occurred an hour later. There is no physiological evidence linking those two events.

If someone shoots at you and misses and you die an hour later of a heart attack, does that mean the gunshot killed you? Is the person who shot at you responsible for your death?

 

[pamak]

And the hemorrhage had what to do with his death?

He died of Asthma according to his autopsy.

The choke was not immediately fatal. Nor did it result in a crushed larynx or broke hyoid bone.

I gave the professional opinion of another medical examiner who was not working for the NYPD

Describing the chokehold as the first event in a lethal cascade of events, Dr. Floriana Persechino said she found hemorrhages on muscles inside the neck, root of tongue and the back of his neck. She said there was a 2-inch hemorrhage in front of his larynx. The hemorrhages, she said, occurred around the time of Garner's death. She noted that she found no visible injuries under Garner's neck, but said in her medical opinion, the 43-year-old father was put in a chokehold.

Persechino clarified that "chokehold" or "neck hold" is also a forensic term.

 

[Sampson Simpson]

Saying that he got killed by a police officer is a lie ...

Except it isn't, its on video, it was confirmed by the medical examiner, it was admitted by NYPD officials

Damn, at least put a little effort into trolling

 

[tres borrachos]

What it means is that the ME took some liberties. As the NYPD Chief Surgeon pointed out after examining the ME’s notes, there was no damage to Garner’s trachea stemming from the chokehold and so it could not have been the direct cause of a death that occurred an hour later. There is no physiological evidence linking those two events.

If someone shoots at you and misses and you die an hour later of a heart attack, does that mean the gunshot killed you? Is the person who shot at you responsible for your death?

Please provide some evidence that the ME "took some liberties".

Your analogy failed. He was put into a chokehold. The policeman didn't miss him. That's what the problem was.

The Chief NYPD Surgeon never examined Garner. He watched the video. He's also not a medical examiner. He's a hematologist.

 

[pamak]

Lol. Maybe as defined by people who believe that anything other than allowing criminals to run amok is police brutality. The bottom line is that the person primarily responsible for Eric Garner’s death was, is, and always will be Eric Garner.

Nope! Maybe as defined by common sense. You didn't address any of the points I made and you insist on excusing such behavior by telling us about the dangers of the criminals who are obese and completely out of shape and sell illegal cigarettes. Again:

It did not actually require 5 people to immobilize him. Three people weigh as much as he did. And it did not require to keep his head against the cement after he showed signs of distress. As usual, the police state in the US overreacted.

I told people many times to go to the youtube and see how British police officers arrest criminals, including armed and dangerous ones.

 

[Napoleon]

Please provide some evidence that the ME "took some liberties".

Your analogy failed. He was put into a chokehold. The policeman didn't miss him. That's what the problem was.

The Chief NYPD Surgeon never examined Garner. He watched the video. He's also not a medical examiner. He's a hematologist.

The evidence is that ME classified the chokehold as the direct cause of a death that occurred an hour later without evidencing a physiological link between the two.

 

[pamak]

That's who I was talking about too. Eli Kleinman. Kleinman is a hematologist and he never examined Garner's body.

So, he said what he said without even examining the body?

Wow!

 

[tres borrachos]

So, he said what he said without even examining the body?

Wow!

Yup. That's a known fact. He never even examined the body.

 

[tres borrachos]

The evidence is that ME classified the chokehold as the direct cause of a death that occurred an hour later without evidencing a physiological link between the two.

I asked you to provide some evidence to back up your claim. The words of someone who isn't trained in forensic examination of a body, and who by his own admission never even examined the body, isn't it either.

Please back up your claim that she took liberties.

 

[Napoleon]

I asked you to provide some evidence to back up your claim. The words of someone who isn't trained in forensic examination of a body, and who by his own admission never even examined the body, isn't it either.

Please back up your claim that she took liberties.

I don’t need to take his word for it but it’s worth noting that he didn’t need to examine the body because he reviewed the ME’s autopsy report. And as a prominent doctor of internal medicine reached a different conclusion based on the documented evidence. I’m pointing out that the ME never established a physiological link between those events. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

 

[pamak]

Yup. That's a known fact. He never even examined the body.

Thanks for telling me!

I did not know that.

And then people try to argue about the "facts" that the local prosecutors brought before a grand jury which did not indict the police officer...