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National Debt Myth

Communist Front

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Although a government with a sovereign fiat currency like the USD, which "prints" (i.e. types the amount into a computer keyboard at the FED), can't inject as much money into the economy as it wants due to hyperinflation, it can easily have a budget that is 10%, 20%, 40% the nation's GDP (i.e. Gross Domestic Product = Nation's Production Capacity). The US federal government will never go insolvent or not have enough USD, as Senator Paul Ryan suggests here, when he is correct by Greenspan:




Ryan sounds like an ignorant dolt, suggesting that the US federal government can go insolvent (running out of money), being unable to pay for Social Security. Greenspan corrects him by reminding him that the US federal government can't run out of USD, because it creates it ex-nihilo (i.e. out of nothing). The real issue isn't whether the US federal government has enough money to pay for Social Security, but rather whether the economy is able to provide Social Security recipients with the goods and services they want to purchase. Production is the issue, not solvency. The so-called national debt, is actually just a ledger of how much money the US federal government has "spent" or "injected" into the US economy (and world economy too, since the USD is the world's reserve currency) in the last 240 years, that hasn't been returned to it in taxes (and other government fees) and has been invested in one way or the other by the public (treasury bonds, assets). If there's a so-called debt, where is the asset? Debts have an asset tied to it. One can just as well call the supposed "national debt", a "national asset", since the US federal government's "red ink" (debt), is the American people's "black ink" (assets). It's a ledger of how much money the private sector, and the American people in general (including other people around the world, who own and use USD), have in their pockets. Watch these two top economists and scholars explain all of this in detail:










Notice how the so-called "national debt" is reflected or projected as the "national asset". If the US federal government is in debt, the American people have more money to invest and save. Balance the federal government budget, and the US economy tanks within two or three years. Every time the US federal government has "balanced" its budget, the private sector suffers and we go into an economic recession. Why all of the fearmongering about the "national debt"? It's because the wealthy ruling class in this country and their cronies in government, don't want the government doing anything for the American people. The "big government" rhetoric, spewed by both Republicans and some Democrats is designed to place as many publicly owned assets and government projects in the hands of the wealthy. They demonize and denigrate the government in the eyes of the American public, portraying themselves (their privately owned companies) as the only solution to whatever problem we face. They would eliminate Social Security and Medicare if they could, privatizing EVERYTHING. Putting it ALL in the hands of a few billionaires. And of course, ironically, many American working-class people will just go along with it and even defend their masters. Adam Smith, the father of capitalism, is clear as to who are the "masters"

What are the common wages of labor, depends every where upon the contract usually made between those two parties, whose interests are by no means the same. The workmen desire to get as much, the masters to give as little as possible. The former are disposed to combine in order to raise, the latter in order to lower the wages of labor. It is not, however, difficult to foresee which of the two parties must, upon all ordinary occasions, have the advantage in the dispute, and force the other into a compliance with their terms. The masters, being fewer in number, can combine much more easily; and the law, besides, authorises, or at least does not prohibit their combinations, while it prohibits those of the workmen. (Book I, Chapter VIII)

 
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"When he is corrected by Greenspan". Only 20 minutes to edit typos.
 
"Out of nothing"
 
. . . Why all of the fearmongering about the "national debt"? It's because the wealthy ruling class in this country and their cronies in government, don't want the government doing anything for the American people.
When we allow government to do things FOR us, then we must allow government to do things TO us.

Uh, no thanks. All I want government to do is let citizens be free, neither restraining us nor aiding us in our pursuits.
The "big government" rhetoric, spewed by both Republicans and some Democrats is designed to place as many publicly owned assets and government projects in the hands of the wealthy. They demonize and denigrate the government in the eyes of the American public, portraying themselves (their privately owned companies) as the only solution to whatever problem we face. . .
I disagree that the "Big Government" meme is rhetoric.

Our federal government has become massively powerful, and in some cases uses taxation as a form of punishment, or as a method to modify the citizen's behavior. Both are reprehensible.

"As government expands, liberty contracts." - Ronald Reagan
 
"Out of nothing"
Out of the full faith and credit of the United States.

All money is a human construct, and it always has been. Gold only has value because we collectively think it should. Its function as currency is purely a human construct. This is true of whether a currency is in the form of a metal like gold or fiat currency like the dollar or euro. It is all a human construct; its value is always out of nothing.

We could just as easily declare quartz to be our universal currency or oil or even cicadas, it's all a human construct.
 
When we allow government to do things FOR us, then we must allow government to do things TO us.

Uh, no thanks. All I want government to do is let citizens be free, neither restraining us nor aiding us in our pursuits.

I disagree that the "Big Government" meme is rhetoric.

Our federal government has become massively powerful, and in some cases uses taxation as a form of punishment, or as a method to modify the citizen's behavior. Both are reprehensible.

"As government expands, liberty contracts." - Ronald Reagan
France has a government that is much larger than ours is, are the French less free than we are?

Somalia has a government that is a tiny fraction the size of ours, are they more free because of it?
 
When we allow government to do things FOR us, then we must allow government to do things TO us.

No thanks. All I want government to do is let citizens be free, neither restraining us nor aiding us in our pursuits.

I disagree that the "Big Government" meme is rhetoric.

Our federal government has become massively powerful, and in some cases uses taxation as a form of punishment, or as a method to modify the citizen's behavior. Both are reprehensible.

"As government expands, liberty contracts." - Ronald Reagan

But it's OK for a privately owned company that is run like a totalitarian government to do things for us, without being regulated by anyone? I'm sorry but you're not making any sense. The institution of government isn't inherently good or evil, it's whatever we, the people who formed that government, want it to be. Government is a social apparatus (i.e. tool), organized by the people to effectively manage their large-scale socioeconomic affairs and projects, that otherwise can't be managed (by an individual or small group of people). We need government and your love for what amounts to privately owned tyrannical regimes, that never hold elections and often engage in activities that undermine the public good, is quite ironic. Any government, if not held accountable to the people who created it to serve their interests, can and often will become a liability and even a threat to the public. But that holds true across the board, for every human organization, not just civil government.

The problem with right-wing Republicans and some Democrats as well, is that you've fallen prey to the fearmongering polemic of the wealthy ruling class, the "masters", who Adam Smith identified as capitalist employers (exploiters) and owners of industry (i.e. the means of production). As a working class person I prefer to have a master that holds elections and allows me to recall delegates (elected government officials) back home when they're proven incompetent or corrupt. When was last time you or I participated in an election in the workplace? The place where we spend (or spent, if you're retired), most of our waking hours? I anticipate what your response will be with respect to my last point, but I'll let you respond before I debunk it.
 
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Inflation is what keeps us solvent. Over time, the interest repaid on a dollar of debt approaches, but doesn't exceed one dollar in the current dollar value.
 
When we allow government to do things FOR us, then we must allow government to do things TO us.

Uh, no thanks. All I want government to do is let citizens be free, neither restraining us nor aiding us in our pursuits.

I disagree that the "Big Government" meme is rhetoric.

Our federal government has become massively powerful, and in some cases uses taxation as a form of punishment, or as a method to modify the citizen's behavior. Both are reprehensible.

"As government expands, liberty contracts." - Ronald Reagan
When has the government used taxation punitively? I haven’t heard that before.
 
With regard to the relationship between balanced budgets and recessions. Clinton managed to balance the budget because the dot-com bubble was so huge it generated enough tax revenue to actually balance the budget. The dot-com bubble burst not because of a balanced budget but rather because it got too big and was unsustainable. Thus throwing economy into a recession. It's not a cause and effect but rather a symptom or side effect.
 
France has a government that is much larger than ours is, are the French less free than we are?
Assuming that what you say is true (that the French government is larger than the U.S. government), then it's reasonable to conclude that the French are less free than Americans. Liberty and freedom are always inversely proportional to government power - i.e., the more power and authority the government has, the less freedom for the citizens.
Somalia has a government that is a tiny fraction the size of ours, are they more free because of it?
Yes.
. . . The institution of government isn't inherently good or evil, it's whatever we, the people who formed that government, want it to be. . . .
Ideally, yes. But with power comes corruption.
Government is a social apparatus (i.e. tool), organized by the people to effectively manage their large-scale socioeconomic affairs and projects, that otherwise can't be managed (by an individual or small group of people). . . .
A social apparatus may be what government has morphed into, but that is certainly not what our Founding Fathers envisioned for the government. They wanted the smallest government possible, and it remained small until the (WW I) Woodrow Administration. That's when the government expansion phase started.

. . . When was last time you or I participated in an election in the workplace?
Union members vote for union bosses. Workers shouldn't expect to vote for the corporate execs of the company they work for. Board members vote for corporate execs - as it should be.
The place where we spend (or spent, if you're retired), most of our waking hours? I anticipate what your response will be with respect to my last point, but I'll let you respond before I debunk it.
You're not going to debunk anything. I like liberty and freedom (limited government) . You like a powerful government with heavy taxes, heavy restrictions and regulations that impede liberty and freedom.

We just have very different concepts about the purpose and scope of government. Nothing I say is going to change your mind, and vice versa.

Let's agree to disagree. 🙂
When has the government used taxation punitively? I haven’t heard that before.
Income Taxes are punitive. The more a person earns, the more the government confiscates from our earnings. The only winners in the Income Tax racket are non-productive people with no income whatsoever, and some low wage earners who earn < $14k/yr.
The whole concept of Income Tax is absurd. There is no need for any direct taxes. Government can be (and USED TO BE before 1913) funded with indirect taxes such as tariffs, Sales tax, Stamp taxes, Usage Taxes, Value Added Tax (VAT), etc.
 
Assuming that what you say is true (that the French government is larger than the U.S. government), then it's reasonable to conclude that the French are less free than Americans. Liberty and freedom are always inversely proportional to government power - i.e., the more power and authority the government has, the less freedom for the citizens.

Yes.

Ideally, yes. But with power comes corruption.

Power in the hands of the people, through a democratic process is less likely to be tyrannical than your form of plutocratic government, controlled by wealthy capitalists. Communists don't want to tax anyone, so you're obviously ignorant of what communism is. Here is a simple, widely accepted definition of communism, by both communist and non-communist scholars:

"A communist society would entail the absence of private property and social classes,[1] and ultimately money[6] and the state (or nation state).[7][8][9]"


Note: Private property isn't personal property. Communists make a distinction between the two. Private property is any property that can be used to exploit others, like a private, for-profit enterprise, with all of its facilities and machinery, or a piece of land used for profit. Personal property however, are all assets used for personal use. It can be your house, a piece of land you use to grow your food, your family vehicle, a fishing boat, computer, personal library and stamp collection, your firearms and ammo, fruit of the looms..etc. American communism will actually ensure you never lose your house, land..etc. Your personal property is more secure with American communists than with capitalists, who will throw you in the ditch if you don't make your mortgage payment or pay your property taxes.

Communism is a society, without a state, socioeconomic classes or the need for money. Why are you saying that we want to tax you? We believe the state withers away as the individual consumer acquires more control over the means of production through the use of technology. We foresee a future where the individual consumer has access to technology that will allow him or her to produce all of the goods and services that he or she consumes, without anyone else's input or assistance. That entails, not receiving any type of help or contribution from anyone else, including government or a private for-profit company. When the individual consumer has that level of control over the means of production, the state withers away and adults only establish relationships with others free of any form of coercian. If there's a government, it won't have all of the coercive administrative and infrastructural components of a state. We want exactly the same thing as the Libertarians, but we achieve it through a different process, that's more practical and effective, especially today in the modern world, of advanced automation and artificial intelligence.
 
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Assuming that what you say is true (that the French government is larger than the U.S. government), then it's reasonable to conclude that the French are less free than Americans. Liberty and freedom are always inversely proportional to government power - i.e., the more power and authority the government has, the less freedom for the citizens.

Yes.

Ideally, yes. But with power comes corruption.

A social apparatus may be what government has morphed into, but that is certainly not what our Founding Fathers envisioned for the government. They wanted the smallest government possible, and it remained small until the (WW I) Woodrow Administration. That's when the government expansion phase started.


Union members vote for union bosses. Workers shouldn't expect to vote for the corporate execs of the company they work for. Board members vote for corporate execs - as it should be.

You're not going to debunk anything. I like liberty and freedom (limited government) . You like a powerful government with heavy taxes, heavy restrictions and regulations that impede liberty and freedom.

We just have very different concepts about the purpose and scope of government. Nothing I say is going to change your mind, and vice versa.

Let's agree to disagree. 🙂

Income Taxes are punitive. The more a person earns, the more the government confiscates from our earnings. The only winners in the Income Tax racket are non-productive people with no income whatsoever, and some low wage earners who earn < $14k/yr.
The whole concept of Income Tax is absurd. There is no need for any direct taxes. Government can be (and USED TO BE before 1913) funded with indirect taxes such as tariffs, Sales tax, Stamp taxes, Usage Taxes, Value Added Tax (VAT), etc.

Union members vote for union bosses. Workers shouldn't expect to vote for the corporate execs of the company they work for. Board members vote for corporate execs - as it should be.

Well at least you're for labor unions. Most right-wing Libertarians don't even recognize that the working class should unionize, so kudos to you for being pro-labor union. I believe the people who work the for-profit, business enterprise should own it collectively, as a democratically-run labor-cooperative. I do believe hierarchies are needed to organize a functional organization and society, so I'm not against heirarchies as many "woke" liberals are, but there should be mutual accountability and workers should own the enterprise together.


We just have very different concepts about the purpose and scope of government. Nothing I say is going to change your mind, and vice versa. Let's agree to disagree. 🙂

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I know nothing I say, no matter of evidence against your capitalist point of view will ever change your mind. I write for the truth seekers who read our posts, not you.


Income Taxes are punitive. The more a person earns, the more the government confiscates from our earnings. The only winners in the Income Tax racket are non-productive people with no income whatsoever, and some low wage earners who earn < $14k/yr.


In a market economy like ours, taxes are necessary primarily to control inflation and maintain the value of the dollar.

The whole concept of Income Tax is absurd. There is no need for any direct taxes. Government can be (and USED TO BE before 1913) funded with indirect taxes such as tariffs, Sales tax, Stamp taxes, Usage Taxes, Value Added Tax (VAT), etc.

I agree that if such taxes are designed in such away that it will draw as much revenue out of the economy, as federal income taxes do today, then perhaps the government can simply impose "indirect taxes". It would essentially achieve the same objective as federal income taxes. Taxing Wall Street transactions, and other types of business transactions can replace income taxes and the working class would benefit more than the system we have today. So, I at least partially agree with you. I'm not necessarily against eliminating the federal income tax.
 
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Out of the full faith and credit of the United States.

All money is a human construct, and it always has been. Gold only has value because we collectively think it should. Its function as currency is purely a human construct. This is true of whether a currency is in the form of a metal like gold or fiat currency like the dollar or euro. It is all a human construct; its value is always out of nothing.

We could just as easily declare quartz to be our universal currency or oil or even cicadas, it's all a human construct.

It's more like a promissory note.
 
Yes, and?

Would you rather have the currency tied to an arbitrary standard, like gold?

That's actually the opposite of an arbitrary standard. The problem with gold is a lack of it; worldwide, there are only a few ounces per capita.
 
Assuming that what you say is true (that the French government is larger than the U.S. government), then it's reasonable to conclude that the French are less free than Americans. Liberty and freedom are always inversely proportional to government power - i.e., the more power and authority the government has, the less freedom for the citizens.

Yes.
So, in your view, because France has a larger government, the French enjoy less freedom and liberty than we do. Conversely, because Somalia has a tiny government, its citizens enjoy much more freedom and liberty than we do.
 
Assuming that what you say is true (that the French government is larger than the U.S. government), then it's reasonable to conclude that the French are less free than Americans. Liberty and freedom are always inversely proportional to government power - i.e., the more power and authority the government has, the less freedom for the citizens.

Yes.

Ideally, yes. But with power comes corruption.

A social apparatus may be what government has morphed into, but that is certainly not what our Founding Fathers envisioned for the government. They wanted the smallest government possible, and it remained small until the (WW I) Woodrow Administration. That's when the government expansion phase started.


Union members vote for union bosses. Workers shouldn't expect to vote for the corporate execs of the company they work for. Board members vote for corporate execs - as it should be.

You're not going to debunk anything. I like liberty and freedom (limited government) . You like a powerful government with heavy taxes, heavy restrictions and regulations that impede liberty and freedom.

We just have very different concepts about the purpose and scope of government. Nothing I say is going to change your mind, and vice versa.

Let's agree to disagree. 🙂

Income Taxes are punitive. The more a person earns, the more the government confiscates from our earnings. The only winners in the Income Tax racket are non-productive people with no income whatsoever, and some low wage earners who earn < $14k/yr.
The whole concept of Income Tax is absurd. There is no need for any direct taxes. Government can be (and USED TO BE before 1913) funded with indirect taxes such as tariffs, Sales tax, Stamp taxes, Usage Taxes, Value Added Tax (VAT), etc.
The size of the government is immaterial, its the scope and powers that matter.
 
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