Mother accidentally shoots and kill teenage daughter

[braindrain]

Which means training them is pointless?

Do you always many up strawmen to argue against.

 

[Lycanthrope]

I already told you I have absolutely no problem with someone seeking formal training if they want to do so.

I had none, and was very familiar with firearms before entering the Army. There was nothing new that I learned there. In fact, my marksmanship didn't even improve. Marksmanship takes practice, and I fired more ammo before I went in the Army, than I ever did in the 10 years I was in the Army.

Do you believe it irresponsible for someone to possess/use a firearm without training? Leave the mandatory part out of it for the sake of this hypothesis.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Do you always many up strawmen to argue against.

Is firearms training inherently a good thing?

 

[Lursa]

No, but you can attempt to instill it.

Same principle as a driver's license. Just because gun ownership is enshrined in the 2A and operating a car isn't doesn't cancel the obvious parallel.

Yeah...thru training. We all agree.

What do people need to 'relearn?' We're not talking about shooting (driving) skills or memorizing laws. The basics are very simple and very clear.

 

[Bok Tuklo]

Says the guy obsessing about gun owners dicks.
It’s simply strange and rather creepy.

That implies they have one.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Yeah...thru training. We all agree.

What do people need to 'relearn?' We're not talking about shooting (driving) skills or memorizing laws. The basics are very simple and very clear.

They are very simple, yes. But that simplicity lends itself to lax protocol over time, don't you think?

 

[braindrain]

I agree here . OTOH, I've never seen a 2A supporter say they were against training...just against mandated training...because it's been used in the past to discriminate against the poor and minorities (it can be costly)...and many people get it on their own, grew up training/hunting/hunter training, etc.

As for the responsibility part...yeah I have to agree with him. Cops' kids get their guns all the time and shoot themselves, siblings, neighbor kids, etc. I've posted here many times about the cop near here that left 2 kids in a van, and a loaded gun in the glove box, and went into a store. Young son got it and killed toddler sister.

Not only that...he wasnt charged initially. I was one of apparently many that emailed/called and asked why. (This same week, a couple in Yakima, WA left a gun under a car seat and their young son accidentally killed himself. Both were immediately charged with manslaughter.) Also sad?...They finally did charge the cop, and he ended up with a hung jury. No retrial. What the hell is wrong with people?

How much more training does a cop need?

And I guarantee that in virtually every single one of those accidents where the people did something irresponsible or simply foolish they knew what they were doing was wrong. They simply did it anyway out of either carelessness or convenience.

No realistic amount of training is going to stop the

 

[RF667799]

No, but you can attempt to instill it.

Same principle as a driver's license. Just because gun ownership is enshrined in the 2A and operating a car isn't doesn't cancel the obvious parallel.

Well, the parallel with owning a gun would be owning a car. Not using the public highways with a car.

For some reason, there are only 500 fatalities in gun accidents a year. 40,000 or so traffic fatalities.

Think it has something to do with the very rudimentary training that most drivers receive? A laughable multiple choice test and a short drive with an observer to see if you can go 15 minutes without breaking a traffic law?

Maybe drivers should be mandated 16 hours of training a year or more. Hell...maybe buying a car should be subject to a criminal background check.

 

[braindrain]

That implies they have one.

Gun owners dicks is really all you can think about isn’t it. So creepy.

 

[Lursa]

Do you believe it irresponsible for someone to possess/use a firearm without training? Leave the mandatory part out of it for the sake of this hypothesis.

No. A simple sheet of paper with the 4 universal rules and current storage instructions (guns come with some options by law) cover the things that...if you never break them, you'll never harm anyone. 4 basic universal rules.

I still recommend physical training...iit's fun...but most "training" you're talking about takes place in classrooms anyway...and costs $$$. It can be a lot, depending on the state.

To me, it's important to recognize that training does not prevent intentional gun crimes.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Think it has something to do with the very rudimentary training that most drivers receive? A laughable multiple choice test and a short drive with an observer to see if you can go 15 minutes without breaking a traffic law?

And yet - no one is advocating that that test and test be eliminated.

 

[RF667799]

Do you believe it irresponsible for someone to possess/use a firearm without training? Leave the mandatory part out of it for the sake of this hypothesis.

I don't really know what sort of training you're proposing. It really isn't difficult to keep from accidentally shooting yourself or someone with a gun. Tens of millions of people manage it every year.

 

[Lycanthrope]

I still recommend physical training...iit's fun...but most "training" you're talking about takes place in classrooms anyway...and costs $$$. It can be a lot, depending on the state.

I'm all for making that training taxpayer funded.

 

[Lursa]

They are very simple, yes. But that simplicity lends itself to lax protocol over time, don't you think?

So? Again...you cant legislate responsibility. What...you want to make it more complicated? How would that help?

 

[Lycanthrope]

I don't really know what sort of training you're proposing. It really isn't difficult to keep from accidentally shooting yourself or someone with a gun. Tens of millions of people manage it every year.

Is all training useless in your opinion?

 

[Bok Tuklo]

Gun owners dicks is really all you can think about isn’t it. So creepy.

Dude, you brought up dicks. I said manhood. If you are such a profound ***** (short for pusillanimous) that you cannot leave your home without a gun, that is where you keep your manhood.

 

[braindrain]

I am really enjoying our exchange.

Please continue - do you know in what context I made that comment?

As am. I always enjoy pointing out the ignorance and straight up dishonesty from the gun control crowd.

I do. That is how I one you were showing your ignorance.

 

[Lycanthrope]

So? Again...you cant legislate responsibility. What...you want to make it more complicated? How would that help?

You cannot legislate responsibility, no.

 

[Lursa]

I'm all for making that training taxpayer funded

No. We pay to teach them to read. Again, the 4 rules are very straightforward and simple.

 

[RF667799]

And yet - no one is advocating that that test and test be eliminated.

That test is not mandated for owning a vehicle.

My entire post that you edited when you quoted it:

Well, the parallel with owning a gun would be owning a car. Not using the public highways with a car.

For some reason, there are only 500 fatalities in gun accidents a year. 40,000 or so traffic fatalities.

Think it has something to do with the very rudimentary training that most drivers receive? A laughable multiple choice test and a short drive with an observer to see if you can go 15 minutes without breaking a traffic law?

Maybe drivers should be mandated 16 hours of training a year or more. Hell...maybe buying a car should be subject to a criminal background check.

 

[Lycanthrope]

No. We pay to teach them to read. Again, the 4 rules are very straightforward and simple.

Would those 4 rules have helped the mother in the OP scenario?

 

[RF667799]

Is all training useless in your opinion?

Can you quote where I've said anything to that effect? If we have reached the point of strawman arguments and selectively editing the posts of other people, I'm not sure there's going to be anything productive from here on out.

 

[braindrain]

Dude, you brought up dicks. I said manhood. If you are such a profound ***** (short for pusillanimous) that you cannot leave your home without a gun, that is where you keep your manhood.

Everyone here knows what you were implying when you were talking about gun owners manhood. It’s to late for you to dishonestly pretend any different at this point.

But I guess it does do a good job of demonstrating to the forum just how little integrity you have

 

[Lycanthrope]

Can you quote where I've said anything to that effect? If we have reached the point of strawman arguments and selectively editing the posts of other people, I'm not sure there's going to be anything productive from here on out.

So some baseline training is useful? What does that look like?

 

[Lursa]

Would those 4 rules have helped the mother in the OP scenario?

Yes. Why not?