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Miss Michigan stripped of title for being a Conservative.

It's a shame young people are growing up in such a walk on eggshell environment. This young lady is clearly beautiful and talented and yet she is being demonized for her thoughts that were clearly not meant in a mullishes manner. I think a dangerous precedent is being set. People will fear that their thoughts will get them into trouble. People will just stop contributing their knowledge. People who have no ill intent should be cut some slack. We don't communicate anymore we just point fingers.
 
Frigidweirdo said:
So, which tweets? It doesn't say. Until there's proper information, we won't know. She makes some claims, but it's hard to know.
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Not really, its easy to know. Party 1 characterizes someone negatively, but won't produce support for that accusation. As Party 2 denies it and is innocent till proven guilty, Party 1 is therefore guilty of making an unsupported smear.
 
cpwill said:
The SPLC is about as credible as Sean Hannity, and became so in the same way as he did : by recognizing that funding comes from hyperbole and accusation, not accuracy. When SPLC changed their business model to appeal to leftist donors by conflating "conservative" with "hate group", they lost their ability to speak with authority :shrug:


It's the way of most major interest groups who achieve the major policy positions for which they were formed. Institutional incentives are to keep the thing going, and keep the cash flowing in, so you have to change your business model to find New Enemies Who Are Big And Scary And For Just $19.99 A Month You Can Help Us Protect You From Them.
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I understand there has been some recent controversy with the SPLC, but they are still rated as "highly factual" by media bias. This is a quality that Sean Hannity does not possess ;)
 
dobieg said:
I'd love to see them myself.
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Kathy Zhu (20) deleted them from her account.

They are available if you search them out.

She made the statements as a student of a central Florida University, but circumstances prompted her to transfer to the Michigan University she now attends.

The one in 2018 about wearing a hijab has two different storylines from her.

In the original one she says she was asked if she would try on a hijab and politely refused but made statements about their religious beliefs and the garment to the booth staff. Afterward she made tweeted statements that were deemed offensive enough for the school to be asked to expel or discipline her.

In her second version she claims that Muslim students working the booth tried to against her will make her wear a hijab and she was forced to flee. (The university who did investigate the matter after a complaint was submitted has no record of this account.)

She made a tweeted statement referencing how blacks kill the majority of blacks and that they should take care of that before asking for help in other matters. When asked for supporting documentation she followed it up with, she learned that in school.

Since she is complaining about an America Institution and immigrated from China at age 5 should she "Go Home" or is that only reserved for non-conservatives?
 
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calamity said:
Singling out "Black on Black" crime is by definition racist. :doh

Think of it this way. "If not for those ****ing blacks, we'd have safe streets."

Racist comment or not?
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you're lying. and your interpretation is dishonest and unsupported by fact
 
Peter King said:
She was not being punished for being a conservative, she was stripped of her title of making embarrassing tweets (embarrassing to the miss Michigan organization) while being miss Michigan. Maybe a bit over the top but I would hope that if she made left wing insensitive and enraging tweets she would also be stripped of her title.

This is about protecting the image of Miss Michigan, nothing more and nothing less. But this has to be the mantra from that organization from now on. If their new Miss says burn the flag and piss on police they should also be stripped of their title, being protective of your organization is only discriminatory if it would only be done to someone making enraging/bad looking conservative comments.
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I agree this organization is protecting their image. It's a shame that an organizations has to take such drastic measures when a simple conversation would probably fix this.
 
Condor060 said:
I see you use this argument all the time and its classically flawed to its very core. When you make assumptions as to someone else's belief because you heard it once by a racist, it doesn't make everyone with the same thought racist. It only shows the ignorance of the accuser. White Supremacists have a lot of commonalities to everyone so everyone is a White Supremacists?
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You call my argument flawed and yet here you start off with the classic Straw Man. I didn't just find some random commonality. The commonality in question is an argument about Blacks and crime. Your attempt to reframe it as just some random commonality is a nice attempt at a false equivalency.

Your absurd argument is: Just because I agree with Hitler about the Jews doesn't mean I share his beliefs. Hilter liked dogs. You like dogs. Does that mean you share Hitler's beliefs?
That's your irrational argument. Sharing the beliefs Hitler has about pets is not equivalent to sharing his beliefs about Jews. This woman shares the beliefs of White Supremacists about Blacks and crime. That's a significant shared belief.




Condor060 said:
Then when people don't agree with you you state they are illogical, illogical people are racist ergo they are racist? Really? Just maybe most people don't agree with you. Did that ever cross your mind?
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I didn't state they are illogical I proved the argument was illogical. Logic is like math. 2 + 2 = 4 whether you like it or not. If you have a problem with my argument then express it logically.

Condor060 said:
You don't even consider the girl was asked a question about cops killing blacks and that was her response BECAUSE THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT BLACKS and her assessment is right on and backed up by the facts.
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You merely state that her assessment was "right on" but you don't explicitly explain why it was correct or what her assessment was.

Let's apply her argument to Whites. Let's say police officers were predominantly Black.

A White person complains about Black police officers being racist and killing Whites for unjustified and racist reasons. Would it be rational for some Black person to argue that Whites kill far more Whites than Black cops kill Whites?

That would be an irrelevant and irrational argument.

Feel free to explain her argument purely logically.
 
dobieg said:
Cool. So our standard of living will go down as every 3rd world country's standard of living will go up and everyone can live equal in the liberal's Utopian wet dream of everyone living in ****.
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Please tell me you're not now blaming "the Left" for automation.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Thank God we on the Left have Bill Maher.

[
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I used to watch Politically Incorrect. Back in those days, there was an attempt to be even handed. Sometimes he'd have three conservatives with one lefty. I think one time he had Charleston Heston, Ted Nugent, and I believe a guy named Ricky Schroeder (some actor I didn't know) and a liberal lady comedian, who was anti gun and it turned out RS was as pro gun as Nugent and Chuck and she got slaughtered. However, the best part was when he had Coulter on his show. He apparently had a fling with her and still had the hots for her, which she played up big time. One time, she showed up in rather less than stylish pants, and he said, in a most disappointed tone-"no skirt" and she gave him the same cutting little smirk that a wealthy debutante would give the valet at the country club who tried to flirt with her.

My dish provider got into a fight with HBO so I haven't seen his show in a while, and when i did, it was nothing more than whining about Trump
 
JMR said:
Maybe Director of Communications?
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I am amazed how some of the news shows-Fox most obviously but some of the others too, can find an "expert" be it on the reproductive cycles of manatees to Formula One Engine restrictions and the expert looks like she worked as a Ford Agency Model.
 
Condor060 said:
I see you use this argument all the time and its classically flawed to its very core. When you make assumptions as to someone else's belief because you heard it once by a racist, it doesn't make everyone with the same thought racist. It only shows the ignorance of the accuser. White Supremacists have a lot of commonalities to everyone so everyone is a White Supremacists?

They love their kids, they support their schools, they have a lot of beliefs shared by other people that are not White Supremacists. So now you are getting it thrown back in your face to show you how ridiculous your claims are and you don't like it. Guess what? Neither does anyone else.

In your continued post you keep going on and on about the black on black thing because YOU say it's illogical. Then when people don't agree with you you state they are illogical, illogical people are racist ergo they are racist? Really? Just maybe most people don't agree with you. Did that ever cross your mind?

You don't even consider the girl was asked a question about cops killing blacks and that was her response
BECAUSE THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT BLACKS and her assessment is right on and backed up by the facts.

If you want people to respect your opinion you can't do it by calling everyone who doesn't see your side of the argument a racist. Just sayin
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Racist breath air.. conclusion.. all air breathers are racist.

Can someone check if SonOfDaedalus is a fish?
Because I'm starting to sense a bias.
 
After reading the rules, it's doubtful anyone today could be found compliant with rule number 9.

"9. Contestants agree that they will not use the Miss World America and Miss Teen World America Contest as a platform for expressing political and/or religious points of views."

We seem to have evolved from differentiating correctness as being between right and wrong to differentiating correctness as between left and wrong.
 
JMR said:
As alumni, do your family members disagree with the idea that a diverse class adds to the educational experience?
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I oppose affirmative action when it is based on "black disadvantaged" "white advantaged" "Asian advantaged"

I liked having a diverse class in terms of skills and strengths. My suite my senior year had the following. A guy who was a computer major and had two legs towards GrandMaster in Chess. A guy who was a brilliant speaker, and ended up being the US Attorney General, as well as a Supreme Court Clerk. A guy who was a professional level dancer and league champion in gymnastics-now he is a shrink dealing with eating disorders among dancers and gymnasts and models. A guy who graduated HS at 17, enlisted in the marines for a couple years, and was growing weed in a shower that didn't work. A guy who was the son of a labor organizer in Scranton, PA-sadly this fellow died of Colon cancer at age 29 and a guy who was the quintessential pre-med science nerd. Me, I was very active politically and was on three different teams and realized being number one board on my HS chess team didn't cut it playing a guy with a rating over 2400.

I learned from all those guys. We all had very different interests and strengths. Notice, I don't mention their ethnicity. It is not something that was relevant that.
 
Peter King said:
She was not being punished for being a conservative, she was stripped of her title of making embarrassing tweets (embarrassing to the miss Michigan organization) while being miss Michigan. Maybe a bit over the top but I would hope that if she made left wing insensitive and enraging tweets she would also be stripped of her title.

This is about protecting the image of Miss Michigan, nothing more and nothing less. But this has to be the mantra from that organization from now on. If their new Miss says burn the flag and piss on police they should also be stripped of their title, being protective of your organization is only discriminatory if it would only be done to someone making enraging/bad looking conservative comments.
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Strange, they wanted to avoid causing an issue. But in stripping her of the title, they've gone and done just that.

Ironic that touch of whimsy, isn't it?
 
maxparrish said:
Not really, its easy to know. Party 1 characterizes someone negatively, but won't produce support for that accusation. As Party 2 denies it and is innocent till proven guilty, Party 1 is therefore guilty of making an unsupported smear.
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Well, perhaps. I don't know. All I know is this is about beauty pageants and it would seem like they're hate filled monstrosities of idiocy.
 
dobieg said:
Looks like you come from good stock. Figured so.


Bookmarked that forum. Sound like many admired you Uncle.



Got a place down on the Northern Neck. Haven't fished the Chesapeake in over 20 years but that was on the cheap boat rentals out of Sandy Point Park at the Bay Bridge.
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Did you see where Captain Ralph from Wicked Tuna was a huge fan?
I kid you not, had Oscar been twenty years younger when Wicked Tuna went on the air he probably would have become the most popular guy on that show in no time.

When I was a little tot I was terrified of him. His voice could rattle walls, windows, the hull of a boat, anything within a half mile.
And he looked, in my four year old mind, exactly like Bluto.

Bluto.webp

But Oscar had a heart bigger than the tuna he fished. An amazing character.
Oh by the way, also a legendary hot rodder in the late 40's and 50's.
 
cpwill said:
:) I like how you don't answer the question.


Does this mean that, for American neo-nazis, the Swastika isn't a hateful symbol, because Americans have never led a regime with that image that murdered millions of people? We can understand the Swastika to be a morally neutral - and, in some cases beneficial! - symbol of belief?


OR.

you can answer the question about comparing Hijab (which is actually used as a tool of oppression against women) to the Yamulke and Cross necklace.



You know, for all that people on the left freak out about how The Handmaiden's Tale is some dark, awful, dystopia, you sure do seem uninterested in talking about the places and cultures where it is far more of a reality.
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I did answer your question. You are making the case that the Hijab is a hateful symbol equal to the Swastika? That is really out there.

True that Burka and Hijab have been used to oppress women. It is a religious and cultural symbol. In the case of Muslim women in the US, it is a choice to wear the hijab or not.

FYI, I am totally in support of laws requiring women to be bareheaded for passport or ID photos. I would support public schools eliminating hijabs as part of the dress code.
If an adult woman chooses to wear one, I really don't care.

Make a case for Mormon women to cut their hair, and Amish women to get rid of their ankle length dresses, and Christian girls refusing the wear their father's chastity ring. Or is that their right?
 
TurtleDude said:
true enough but one can debate, honestly, whether what she did violated their rules
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From what was reported in USA Today, the organization's claims sound pretty weak. It was well known of her conservative views and support for Trump well before receiving the Miss Michigan title. She has a large following on social media. Personally I think it has more to do about her openness of being a Trump supporter.

Here's one post they flagged claiming it Islamaphobic.

""There is a 'try a hijab on' booth at my college campus.
So you're telling me that it's now just a fashion accessory and not a religious thing? Or are you just trying to get women used to being oppressed under Islam?""
She went on to explain her post....
"I said that it was (getting women used to) being oppressed because there are so many women in Middle Eastern countries that are being punished and stoned for refusing to wear a hijab," Zhu said. "Nobody is talking about that in the West because all they see is everyone being at peace, but that is the beauty of America."
Miss Michigan, student Kathy Zhu, stripped of Miss World America title
Can you see anything that is false in her statements? Women are so oppressed in many countries in the Middle East. Men treat their goats better in many cases than they do their women.
There was some discussion earlier about Chinese Americans leaving the Democratic party. Does this help the Democrats with that group of voters? No. And it isn't going to help Democrats in the State of Michigan either as this young woman was Miss Michigan. Michigan was one of those states the Democrats thought they had in the bag yet Trump won. Don't be surprised to see Miss Zhu show up on the campaign trail telling her story.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
You call my argument flawed and yet here you start off with the classic Straw Man. I didn't just find some random commonality. The commonality in question is an argument about Blacks and crime. Your attempt to reframe it as just some random commonality is a nice attempt at a false equivalency.

Your absurd argument is: Just because I agree with Hitler about the Jews doesn't mean I share his beliefs. Hilter liked dogs. You like dogs. Does that mean you share Hitler's beliefs?
That's your irrational argument. Sharing the beliefs Hitler has about pets is not equivalent to sharing his beliefs about Jews. This woman shares the beliefs of White Supremacists about Blacks and crime. That's a significant shared belief.






I didn't state they are illogical I proved the argument was illogical. Logic is like math. 2 + 2 = 4 whether you like it or not. If you have a problem with my argument then express it logically.



You merely state that her assessment was "right on" but you don't explicitly explain why it was correct or what her assessment was.

Let's apply her argument to Whites. Let's say police officers were predominantly Black.

A White person complains about Black police officers being racist and killing Whites for unjustified and racist reasons. Would it be rational for some Black person to argue that Whites kill far more Whites than Black cops kill Whites?

That would be an irrelevant and irrational argument.

Feel free to explain her argument purely logically.
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Wow, throwing as much word salad into the mix. Is probably the largest weakness you have in all of this.
 
TurtleDude said:
I used to watch Politically Incorrect. Back in those days, there was an attempt to be even handed. Sometimes he'd have three conservatives with one lefty. I think one time he had Charleston Heston, Ted Nugent, and I believe a guy named Ricky Schroeder (some actor I didn't know) and a liberal lady comedian, who was anti gun and it turned out RS was as pro gun as Nugent and Chuck and she got slaughtered. However, the best part was when he had Coulter on his show. He apparently had a fling with her and still had the hots for her, which she played up big time. One time, she showed up in rather less than stylish pants, and he said, in a most disappointed tone-"no skirt" and she gave him the same cutting little smirk that a wealthy debutante would give the valet at the country club who tried to flirt with her.

My dish provider got into a fight with HBO so I haven't seen his show in a while, and when i did, it was nothing more than whining about Trump
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I find it difficult to believe anyone has ever found Ann Coulter attractive.
 
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