Minimum wage hikes trigger 'payroll tsunami,' as small businesses cut back

[Conservative]

If they cannot pay their employees they should probably just give up now before they lose everything. Seriously those are some shoe string operations. Most likely they would have failed without wage hikes.

That may or may not be true but the point remains, no gov't should ever tell a private business what to pay their workers, Competition should do that

 

[Conservative]

Hey now - I like Norman Rockwell. Best painter in America of the 20th century.

And I agree with you about the tax system. :2wave:

There isn't a more selfish group on the planet than the left wing radicals in today's Democratic Party, multi millionaires who indoctrinate people with their rhetoric and not their actions. There isn't a Democrat running for President today that isn't a hypocrite promoting spending in the name of compassion while lining their pockets with campaign donations and creating more power for the bureaucrats

 

[OlNate]

I pay above min wage

Go back and reread....your comprehension level needs as much boosting as your business acumen

You want ALL businesses to pay what $ 15 an hour minimum?

So what do you do with the people who make between 9.00 and fifteen now?

If you are giving min wage people $ 6 buck an hour raises....how much do they get....the same?

And the ones and 12-15 now....do they move to 18-21? Where does that merry go round end? Who doesn’t get raises?

Who gets the short end of the stick?

Ok...next issue

All the labor costs have increased....so prices have gone up....do you think owners are arbitrarily just going to take it in the shorts? No ****ing way....so they will raise prices....

Now who really gets hurt?

The people on fixed incomes.....yep....the people on social security, and pensions

They get COLA raises but it is never enough, and never soon enough to keep up

The only one that makes out with a huge increase in min wage is two types....

Unions whose wages are tied to minimum wages for contracts....and there are a lot of those still out there

And uncle Sammie, as every body goes up in income and pays slightly higher taxes

Do we need to raise from 7 bucks an hour....yeah, probably

To a national number of maybe 9 bucks an hour....and then let the localities determine if that is good enough for them

The rest is crap economics

Please read my response again about you taking this personally. And stop accusing me of not knowing what I'm talking about, just because we disagree on how business should be run, it doesn't mean I'm an idiot. I know as a conservative that's very difficult for you to absorb, take as long as you need. Maybe if you were a little less sensitive, you'd recognize a universal "you" when you see it. If this conversation is too much for you, you're welcome to bow out.

I don't know if you noticed, but prices are going up anyway, regardless of whether people are paid more or not. Without minimum wage increases, people working at minimum wage jobs never get a raise to match, and so fall further and further behind. In my opinion, minimum wage should be raised yearly, in direct correlation to the cost of living increase, at a minimum.

As a business owner, you have no choice but to pay the increased prices your suppliers pass on to you. This is no different, and I find it weird that some businesses accept increases in all other areas of their cost buckets, but when it comes to how they treat their human assets, all of a sudden they're the biggest ****ing victims on the face of the planet and everyone is out to get them. If your current business model doesn't address the realities of the place you're doing business in, whether that's the cost of diapers or the minimum hourly wage of employees, adapt, move, or GTFO altogether...someone else will figure out how to fill that gap. Go work for them.... :shrug:

(As we have already established you pay higher than minimum wage, I'm sure none of the above applies to you...universal you's in play)

 

[haymarket]

There isn't a more selfish group on the planet than the left wing radicals in today's Democratic Party, multi millionaires who indoctrinate people with their rhetoric and not their actions. There isn't a Democrat running for President today that isn't a hypocrite promoting spending in the name of compassion while lining their pockets with campaign donations and creating more power for the bureaucrats

As usual, your rant has nothing to do with the post from me you reproduced. You completely ignored the great Norman Rockwell.

 

[Conservative]

As usual, your rant has nothing to do with the post from me you reproduced. You completely ignored the great Norman Rockwell.

And Norman Rockwell has absolutely nothing to do with the thread topic which is all about more power being generated by bureaucrats by making people believe that a minimum wage increase benefits the worker when the reality is it benefits the gov't by giving bureaucrats more power

 

[Conservative]

Please read my response again about you taking this personally. And stop accusing me of not knowing what I'm talking about, just because we disagree on how business should be run, it doesn't mean I'm an idiot. I know as a conservative that's very difficult for you to absorb, take as long as you need. Maybe if you were a little less sensitive, you'd recognize a universal "you" when you see it. If this conversation is too much for you, you're welcome to bow out.

I don't know if you noticed, but prices are going up anyway, regardless of whether people are paid more or not. Without minimum wage increases, people working at minimum wage jobs never get a raise to match, and so fall further and further behind. In my opinion, minimum wage should be raised yearly, in direct correlation to the cost of living increase, at a minimum.

As a business owner, you have no choice but to pay the increased prices your suppliers pass on to you. This is no different, and I find it weird that some businesses accept increases in all other areas of their cost buckets, but when it comes to how they treat their human assets, all of a sudden they're the biggest ****ing victims on the face of the planet and everyone is out to get them. If your current business model doesn't address the realities of the place you're doing business in, whether that's the cost of diapers or the minimum hourly wage of employees, adapt, move, or GTFO altogether...someone else will figure out how to fill that gap. Go work for them.... :shrug:

(As we have already established you pay higher than minimum wage, I'm sure none of the above applies to you...universal you's in play)

So why do you think prices are going up anyway? Can you show where any major corporation pays minimum wage? you were asked a question about the current minimum wage holder or those making $10 an hour and you didn't answer. Further you want to ignore the costs of gov't going up as well meaning higher taxes. Higher taxes, higher operating expenses, higher prices and that benefits exactly who?

 

[haymarket]

And Norman Rockwell has absolutely nothing to do with the thread topic which is all about more power being generated by bureaucrats by making people believe that a minimum wage increase benefits the worker when the reality is it benefits the gov't by giving bureaucrats more power

That is very mean of you since another poster involved the sainted name of America's greatest 20th century painter. Shame on you and try to get in touch with a bit of American culture.

 

[Conservative]

That is very mean of you since another poster involved the sainted name of America's greatest 20th century painter. Shame on you and try to get in touch with a bit of American culture.

You want to talk about American Culture and Norman Rockwell, then start your own thread about him and America culture. Right now what you are promoting is the culture of big gov't and entitlement

 

[haymarket]

You want to talk about American Culture and Norman Rockwell, then start your own thread about him and America culture. Right now what you are promoting is the culture of big gov't and entitlement

You should be chastising the person who first brought up Norman.

 

[OlNate]

{snip}


Do you really think that some newbie off the street who can only be trusted unsupervised with sweeping and running for coffee is worth $15.00 an hour.

Or.........should I let him hack up sheet rock that costs $15.00 a sheet.... or destroy $900.00 shower surround?

Well, you can run your business however you like, but if it were me, I'd probably train my employees, and hire people who have skills in the type of work I'm hiring for...? But that's a totally different topic than do I think someone is worth $15 an hour.

Most lower paying jobs out there are transitional jobs that were never meant to be a career. They are job market entry points for students making a buck after school hours, or for people making a few extra bucks outside of their regular jobs, or maybe a house wife looking to supplement family income.

Liberals want to make these mundane jobs a career?

Yeah...sure, you have all those skills, those drive profit. But if your entire workforce left you today, and no one would work for you, how much profit would those other things bring you in...? Sorry, bud, you might be good, and all, but without staff all you have is a good head on your shoulders. :shrug: How many guys would you have left if you paid them minimum wage?

It's not so much about wanting to make "mundane jobs" a career - rather it's to make sure those folks stuck in a "mundane job" don't starve to death, and that it's the people who are profiting off their time that pay their grocery bill, not me.... I want my tax money going to programs that make my country better, not creating a situation wherein a few cheap ass business owners and shareholders get a couple extra points on there investment. There are far more people to care about who are losing in that equation than the much smaller number who benefit. Pareto rule, bud...

The biggest problem is that these "mundane jobs" are being increasingly filled with more and more people that don't fit your descriptions, as jobs are lost to automation, the economy, and cheap overseas labor. The price of everything continues to go up, so taking a break to get retrained isn't feasible for most, and survival mode is a hard rut to get out of. So, you see people having careers at places that perhaps were never meant to be a career job. They're doing what they have to do to support themselves and their family.

So, essentially, a new class of people emerge, who are damned in just about every direction they look: damned if they work a job that pays **** because people like you put no value on the work, regardless of how hard it is, damned if they go on social assistance while they try to figure things out, and damned if they take the risk and go back to school, which would likely also put them on social assistance if they cannot make what they have stretch. That's a dangerous group of people right there, Ret....you've seen them before, many times in history, usually associated with revolutions and guillotines and the like. You guys have a lot going on at the moment...lol...do you really want to add "peasant revolt" to it? lol...

As I said, I don't know about $15USD per hour in 2019. That's damn steep, and very quick...in my opinion, increases need to be done often but in small increments, to keep the impact reasonable. My proposal would be have two minimum wages - one for part time, one for full time, and they should increase yearly in direct correlation to the increased cost of living. But as more and more people in the foreseeable future need to rely on "mundane jobs" to support themselves, the businesses that profit off of their labor need to ensure that they are not profiting at the tax payers expense - no company should make a dime of profit if poor wages force their any of their employees to rely on government assistance to fill the gap.

Anyway...it sounds like you employ skilled workers, so wouldn't be paying minimum wage, therefore none of this is aimed at you. I feel like I better say that, as you American business owners are a touch bunch...lol...

 

[sjmay]

This is what I'm saying. I wonder what the trump supporters who believed trump's bull**** about paying less in taxes will do when they see the bad news?

A lot of people DID pay less in taxes,

My revenue doubled, I KNOW why I got nailed.......

 

[Conservative]

You should be chastising the person who first brought up Norman.

Not chastising anyone, just pointing out that the Thread topic has nothing to do with Rockwell

 

[gdgyva]

Here the debate is about who and how to determine this minimum level of compensation. It is obvious that a small business owner who wants to pay above the minimum wage will not get a catalog from a state to tell him how much exactly he should pay his employees. The state just designates a minimum level, and since we have minimum wage laws, it is obvious that an employer cannot just pay whatever he wants below this minimum level.
This type of capitalism where a business owner had absolute freedom to pay his employees whatever he wanted died long time ago!

and i am telling you, that if a job has a value of $ 11 an hour...and the state mandates that i pay someone $ 15 an hour for it

one of three things will happen

1. i will add to the job to add to the value i am receiving....if the employee cannot produce, they are out on their ass
2. i will take that job, and cut it....and add those duties to other people, and pay them more
3. or finally, i will figure out a way to automate the job

you figure out which is better for the economy....

none will hurt my bottom line

jobs may be lost....but i dont think you guys care about that, do you?

 

[haymarket]

Not chastising anyone, just pointing out that the Thread topic has nothing to do with Rockwell

Then direct your ire to the poster who first brought him up.

 

[Lovebug]

Minimum wage hikes trigger '''payroll tsunami,''' as small businesses cut back | Fox News



Another example of liberalism gone crazy and showing their total ignorance as to how the private sector works with no regard to the small business owner who is the last to be paid and the one that has to meet the Payroll along with tax and regulation responsibilities.

I can see the wailing now as unemployment rises because of the higher costs associated with forced wage increases on private businesses. All Trump's fault, right?

my first thought was that this will be the end of small businesses, since they won't be able tp compete against the large corporation wage hikes

 

[Conservative]

my first thought was that this will be the end of small businesses, since they won't be able tp compete against the large corporation wage hikes

It certainly is going to force some small businesses out of business although many of those small businesses don't compete against the larger companies. The real benefactors of the pay increases are the federal bureaucrats as they get more power and more tax revenue to buy more votes. The consumer and welfare system gets hit hard on this issue and any wage increase is going to be offset by higher prices, higher taxes.

 

[jaeger19]

Explain the levels of poverty for us in the last 50 years.

Gas pumpers today draw the same assistance they drew 50 years ago.

Naw they don't because welfare was changed back in 1996.

You just don't want to face facts that the economy has changed from the one you came back to.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

That may or may not be true but the point remains, no gov't should ever tell a private business what to pay their workers, Competition should do that

I would agree with that ideal, but it doesn't work in reality. If you took away the minimum wage; employers would automatically lower wages day one. And most likely if the minimum wage was abolished a few other labor laws would go with it. We would be straight back to primitives times when Americans could not support their family while working a full time job. And even worse it wouldn't just be new hires with suck ass pay, but journeymen would also suffer. In other words its a pipe dream just like Socialism.

 

[Conservative]

I would agree with that ideal, but it doesn't work in reality. If you took away the minimum wage; employers would automatically lower wages day one. And most likely if the minimum wage was abolished a few other labor laws would go with it. We would be straight back to primitives times when Americans could not support their family while working a full time job. And even worse it wouldn't just be new hires with suck ass pay, but journeymen would also suffer. In other words its a pipe dream just like Socialism.

Except for the understanding that most employers need employees and competition is what will keep wages higher. There are consequences for poor choices including employers paying too low wages and I give the American worker more credit than most.

The other issue are the people who are making minimum wage which in a country of 157 million employed are mostly younger workers, first time workers, second job holders, part time employees, restaurant employees who earn tips. Raising the wages to $15 for a restaurant worker ignores the tips generated and since employers don't pay the tips but rather only the $15 that is a burden on restaurants

Another factor overlooked by the zealots on the left is the effect on products and services that people particularly the unemployed, homeless have to purchase at higher prices causing federal, state, and local benefits to be raised causing higher taxes. There are consequences for this action on the part of bureaucrats and really they are the only ones that benefit

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Except for the understanding that most employers need employees and competition is what will keep wages higher. There are consequences for poor choices including employers paying too low wages and I give the American worker more credit than most.

Again that is just a pipe dream that is not actually reality based. In theory I am on board it sounds great: in the real world though employers are generally assholes that do not give one crap about their employees.

The other issue are the people who are making minimum wage which in a country of 157 million employed are mostly younger workers, first time workers, second job holders, part time employees, restaurant employees who earn tips. Raising the wages to $15 for a restaurant worker ignores the tips generated and since employers don't pay the tips but rather only the $15 that is a burden on restaurants

It sounds like you know nothing about jobs with tips. Most places (I do not know about all states) but most pay with the tips first. If the tips did not cover the same as the minimum wage then the employers make sup the difference. And no not every minimum wage worker is "mostly younger workers, first time workers, second job holders, part time employees, restaurant employees who earn tips". You have a very out of touch perception of the world. Are you retired?

Another factor overlooked by the zealots on the left is the effect on products and services that people particularly the unemployed, homeless have to purchase at higher prices causing federal, state, and local benefits to be raised causing higher taxes. There are consequences for this action on the part of bureaucrats and really they are the only ones that benefit

Thanks for parroting what the zealots on the right say. Here is the problem: the left or the right are always zealots, they are incapable of doing anything good on their own. The left needs the input of the right and the right needs the input of the left, or what happens is that pipe dreams get turned into law and we all suffer when that pipe dream fails. Like I said a pipe dream just like socialism.

The actual solution is that we have to regulate certain aspects of the economy since private industry is only concerned with bottom line instead of liberties, freedom and rights. History is chalk full of employers being greedy assholes. What makes you think that anything has changed in that department?

 

[Conservative]

FreedomFromAll;1069947363]Again that is just a pipe dream that is not actually reality based. In theory I am on board it sounds great: in the real world though employers are generally assholes that do not give one crap about their employees.

Oh, my and I thought I had a reasonable poster here but instead I have a clueless liberal. Employers are generally assholes with no respect for their employees? Where in the hell did you get that information and isn't that feeling mutual where it happens?

It sounds like you know nothing about jobs with tips. Most places (I do not know about all states) but most pay with the tips first. If the tips did not cover the same as the minimum wage then the employers make sup the difference. And no not every minimum wage worker is "mostly younger workers, first time workers, second job holders, part time employees, restaurant employees who earn tips". You have a very out of touch perception of the world. Are you retired?

Wrong again, restaurant employees are paid a salary below minimum wage and tips are supposedly shared equally among employees and if that doesn't bring them above minimum wage the owner has to make up the difference. If it does exceed minimum wage the employee benefits

Thanks for parroting what the zealots on the right say. Here is the problem: the left or the right are always zealots, they are incapable of doing anything good on their own. The left needs the input of the right and the right needs the input of the left, or what happens is that pipe dreams get turned into law and we all suffer when that pipe dream fails. Like I said a pipe dream just like socialism.

Yes, I am retired, spent 35 years in the private sector, ran an actual business that generated 200 million dollars a year in revenue, and had over 1200 employees so I can tell you that you have no idea what you are talking about and it is you that is parroting ignorance

The actual solution is that we have to regulate certain aspects of the economy since private industry is only concerned with bottom line instead of liberties, freedom and rights. History is chalk full of employers being greedy assholes. What makes you think that anything has changed in that department?

there are a lot of assholes on both sides of the equation and a asshole employee moves from place to place where an asshole business owner fails. You obviously don't see the difference

 

[Port & Starboard]

Naw they don't because welfare was changed back in 1996.

You just don't want to face facts that the economy has changed from the one you came back to.

Who said welfare? There are programs other than welfare.

 

[pamak]

and i am telling you, that if a job has a value of $ 11 an hour...and the state mandates that i pay someone $ 15 an hour for it

one of three things will happen

1. i will add to the job to add to the value i am receiving....if the employee cannot produce, they are out on their ass
2. i will take that job, and cut it....and add those duties to other people, and pay them more
3. or finally, i will figure out a way to automate the job

you figure out which is better for the economy....

none will hurt my bottom line

jobs may be lost....but i dont think you guys care about that, do you?

It is possible! I am not saying that an increase of minimum wage will always be beneficial. But right now, we have NO indication that it affects the bottom line, and it makes sense to have the minimum wage keep up with the rest of the wage increases.

We also have a scenario of when the job has a value of 15$ and you decide that it is worth $11.

Or we have the scenario that you are an incompetent businessman who sees that his business is ready to go down and this motivates you to pay employees less than what they really worth in order that your business can survive. You tell me if the survival of such business is good for the economy.
The point is that a minimum wage law should take ALL scenarios in consideration.

 

[mrdeltoid]

I already explained it in a previous post.

Since the cost passes to all consumers then this will still benefit to some extend those earning minimum wage. In effect, part of the rest of the consumers who do not earn minimum wage will help the wage of those minimum wage workers.

Do you believe that minimum wage should be a "living" wage?

 

[pamak]

Do you believe that minimum wage should be a "living" wage?

Yes!

By the way, your question is slightly different from the question of if I believe that the minimum wage CAN be a "living" wage. The answer to the second must be qualified depending on how the economy is doing in general. In some cases, it may be just impossible to push for a living wage without harming the economic activity in general.