Michael Flynn Pleads Guilty: Is Trump Finished?

[Casca XV]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...n-937am:homepage/story&utm_term=.4cbc66502efd

Let's face it. Trump is finished. If Flynn got a deal it's because he gave Mueller something juicy enough to cut loose a guy who knows EVERYTHING like Flynn. Flynn admitted to talking about removing sanctions with Russia. No doubt, Mueller wanted the big firsh--Trump. The only way I see Mueller cutting Flynn loose is if he gave up the Donald.

It's over folks. Trump is done.

Notice the first real dip the stock market ha had in a year is over the Fake News that President Trump might be in trouble.

 

[Nickyjo]

Like I said, if Trump goes, you've got Pence, who is even more far right than Trump is. That's your hope?

Absolutely not. Aside from the embarrassment factor of having him Prez when one speaks with foreigners, Trump is preferable for entertainment value.

Still, as someone who worked on international human rights issues, it saddens and scares me to have a president with fascist (small “f”)-like tendencies who suggests that the US commit war crimes and who seems not to understand the rule of law. Good that he has some grownups to restrain him, however.

 

[DamnYankee]

Notice the first real dip the stock market ha had in a year is over the Fake News that President Trump might be in trouble.

I believe the market rebounded or somewhat rebounded from the leftist fake news report after they (ABC) came clean with the real story.

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

You can’t impeach a president because you don’t like his foreign policy.

Where did I say that? Mueller is a prosecutor. If he cut a deal with Flynn it's because Flynn gave him information that will lead to charges on a higher up. There are just not many people higher up than Flynn. You must understand that in politics if a close associate has to give information about you to save themselves from serious charges that you're finishished unless you're squeaky clean.

Moreover, Russia is not just another country like France or Britain. Russia is sanctioned. Russia was sanctioned by the Obama administration for using an army of hackers to attack us. This is the same Russia that Mitt Romney correctly called "our greatest geopolitical threat." This is the same Russia that the Senate passed recently passed renewed sanctions against.

Senators voted 98-2 on the bill, which would give Congress the ability to block Trump from lifting the Russia sanctions. It also includes new penalties against Iran and North Korea.

Senate sends Russia sanctions bill to Trump's desk | TheHill

This is the same Russia that helped Assad cover up his chemical weapons attack on civilians by blowing up a hospital full of victims.

The Pentagon had been looking into whether Russia was complicit in the attack. A Russian drone was reportedly hovering above a hospital treating victims and then turned off just before the hospital was bombed. US officials believe the hospital was targeted in an attempt to hide evidence of the chemical attack.

Those officials have now concluded that the drone that was hovering above the hospital was operated by Russia, and the warplane that attacked the hospital was Russian-made. But they have not determined whether the plane was operated by a Russian or Syrian pilot.

"The official said the presence of the drone couldn't have been a coincidence, and that Russia must have known the chemical weapons attack was coming and that victims were seeking treatment," the AP reported.

The US retaliated against Syria for the gas attack on Thursday night, launching 59 Tomahawk cruise missiles at the airfield where Assad's warplanes are believed to have taken off, loaded with the chemicals.

US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said on Thursday that Russia, which helped broker the deal in 2013 to destroy Assad's chemical-weapons stockpile, had been "complicit" or "simply incompetent in its ability to deliver on its end of that agreement."

Russia knew of Assad chemical attack in Syria, US official says - Business Insider

A video of the aftermath of the Syrian chemical attack.



Try to wrap your mind around that. A hospital full of victims many children who are gasping for air after being hit by chemical weapons. And Russia helps to blow up the hospital. That's Russia. That's Vladamir Putin.

North Korea and Iran have not used chemical weapons on civilians or blown up hospitals full of victims. Russia and their ally Assad have. So, is there any doubt that Russia is an enemy?

The Russians, our enemies, wanted sanctions relief. And for mysterious and inexplicable reasons, Trump sent Flynn to try and help them. And Trump and Flynn lied about it, repeatedly at every step.

Everything I said here is a fact.

Russia knew of Assad chemical attack in Syria, US official says - Business Insider

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

Flynn will probably rat on a few in the campaign but it will not include Trump at all and it will not include charging anyone with colluding with the Russians in order to influence the election.

Mueller is an experienced prosecutor. If you had a guy as close to Trump as Flynn by the balls, would you accept anything less than him rolling on Trump? Of course, not. That's not wishful thinking, that's common sense. It sounds like you're in denial.

Apparently YOU don't know how it works. People are innocent until proven guilty.

I didn't say any of this PROVES that Trump is guilty. It strongly suggests that Flynn gave Mueller something incriminating about Trump to drop very serious charges on him and his son. Do you deny that a plea deal with cooperation suggests that?

Once again, I take pity on you for only having fantasies. The very best you can hope to accomplish is bringing on President Pence, who is even more far right than Trump.

I would prefer Pence, even if he's more far right than Trump. I don't believe Pence is a traitor. I do believe Trump sold out America either because of his financial deals with Russia or because he's being blackmailed. I don't care what Trump's reasons are.

The FACTS are Russia is a HOSTILE foreign power:

1. Russia has used cyberwarfare to attack us

2. Russia has used cyberwarfare to attack our NATO allies

3. Russia helped Assad blow up a hospital full of chemical weapons victims to cover up for Assad

4. Russia was sanctioned by Obama and new sanctions were overwhelmingly approved by Congress

5. All our intelligence agencies claim Russia is hostile

This is Mike Pompeo, CIA director, on Wikileaks and Russia (Remember Trump "I love Wikileaks"?)

“It is time to call out WikiLeaks for what it really is – a non-state hostile intelligence serviceoften abetted by state actors like Russia.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ands-wikileaks-a-hostile-intelligence-service

Yet, for some crazy inexplicable reason, our president refuses to acknowledge any of this. He sent Flynn to tell the Russians not to worry about the sanctions Obama imposed.

I don't mind regular politics. I don't care if conservative idiots get into power. But Trump is a traitor. You can't be so attached to one man that you're blind to how he has betrayed our country to an enemy.

 

[MaggieD]

Where did I say that? Mueller is a prosecutor. If he cut a deal with Flynn it's because Flynn gave him information that will lead to charges on a higher up. There are just not many people higher up than Flynn. You must understand that in politics if a close associate has to give information about you to save themselves from serious charges that you're finishished unless you're squeaky clean.

Moreover, Russia is not just another country like France or Britain. Russia is sanctioned. Russia was sanctioned by the Obama administration for using an army of hackers to attack us. This is the same Russia that Mitt Romney correctly called "our greatest geopolitical threat." This is the same Russia that the Senate passed recently passed renewed sanctions against.



Senate sends Russia sanctions bill to Trump's desk | TheHill

This is the same Russia that helped Assad cover up his chemical weapons attack on civilians by blowing up a hospital full of victims.



Russia knew of Assad chemical attack in Syria, US official says - Business Insider

A video of the aftermath of the Syrian chemical attack.



Try to wrap your mind around that. A hospital full of victims many children who are gasping for air after being hit by chemical weapons. And Russia helps to blow up the hospital. That's Russia. That's Vladamir Putin.

North Korea and Iran have not used chemical weapons on civilians or blown up hospitals full of victims. Russia and their ally Assad have. So, is there any doubt that Russia is an enemy?

The Russians, our enemies, wanted sanctions relief. And for mysterious and inexplicable reasons, Trump sent Flynn to try and help them. And Trump and Flynn lied about it, repeatedly at every step.

Everything I said here is a fact.

Russia knew of Assad chemical attack in Syria, US official says - Business Insider

I responded to your comment that he is finished. He is not finished unless he committed a serious enough impeachable offense to bring that about and then get a guilty verdict. You’re jumping WAY ahead of yourself, as the Left has been doing ever since Trump was elected.

 

[Moderate Right]

Absolutely not. Aside from the embarrassment factor of having him Prez when one speaks with foreigners, Trump is preferable for entertainment value.

Still, as someone who worked on international human rights issues, it saddens and scares me to have a president with fascist (small “f”)-like tendencies who suggests that the US commit war crimes and who seems not to understand the rule of law. Good that he has some grownups to restrain him, however.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-kovalik/obama-adminstration-guilt_b_8916380.html

 

[Moderate Right]

Mueller is an experienced prosecutor. If you had a guy as close to Trump as Flynn by the balls, would you accept anything less than him rolling on Trump? Of course, not. That's not wishful thinking, that's common sense. It sounds like you're in denial.



I didn't say any of this PROVES that Trump is guilty. It strongly suggests that Flynn gave Mueller something incriminating about Trump to drop very serious charges on him and his son. Do you deny that a plea deal with cooperation suggests that?



I would prefer Pence, even if he's more far right than Trump. I don't believe Pence is a traitor. I do believe Trump sold out America either because of his financial deals with Russia or because he's being blackmailed. I don't care what Trump's reasons are.

The FACTS are Russia is a HOSTILE foreign power:

1. Russia has used cyberwarfare to attack us

2. Russia has used cyberwarfare to attack our NATO allies

3. Russia helped Assad blow up a hospital full of chemical weapons victims to cover up for Assad

4. Russia was sanctioned by Obama and new sanctions were overwhelmingly approved by Congress

5. All our intelligence agencies claim Russia is hostile

This is Mike Pompeo, CIA director, on Wikileaks and Russia (Remember Trump "I love Wikileaks"?)



https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ands-wikileaks-a-hostile-intelligence-service

Yet, for some crazy inexplicable reason, our president refuses to acknowledge any of this. He sent Flynn to tell the Russians not to worry about the sanctions Obama imposed.

I don't mind regular politics. I don't care if conservative idiots get into power. But Trump is a traitor. You can't be so attached to one man that you're blind to how he has betrayed our country to an enemy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlvOwtJ5Euc

 

[Casca XV]

I believe the market rebounded or somewhat rebounded from the leftist fake news report after they (ABC) came clean with the real story.

Another stake in the heart of the claim that Trump is not what is generating this current best economy we have had in 16 years.

 

[DamnYankee]

Another stake in the heart of the claim that Trump is not what is generating this current best economy we have had in 16 years.

A thriving economy is always a good thing. Not so much for the left, but something for every decent normal American to celebrate. I'm glad you pointed out the market dip, and eventual rise. I nearly forgot about it.

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

I responded to your comment that he is finished. He is not finished unless he committed a serious enough impeachable offense to bring that about and then get a guilty verdict. You’re jumping WAY ahead of yourself, as the Left has been doing ever since Trump was elected.

Let's start with the basics.

Is Russia a hostile foreign power?

This is what our CIA director said, “It is time to call out WikiLeaks for what it really is – a non-state hostile intelligence serviceoften abetted by state actors like Russia.”

We know they sent Twitter bots to sow racial conflict.

A social media campaign calling itself "Blacktivist" and linked to the Russian government used both Facebook and Twitter in an apparent attempt to amplify racial tensions during the U.S. presidential election, two sources with knowledge of the matter told CNN. The Twitter account has been handed over to Congress; the Facebook account is expected to be handed over in the coming days.

Exclusive: Fake black activist social media accounts linked to Russian government - Sep. 28, 2017

Are you telling me that the president elect conspiring with a foreign enemy to help them is not an impeachable act?

Moreover, Trump knew that Flynn broke the law and he still tried to get Comey and Congress to drop the investigation. That is obstruction of justice. That's an impeachable offense. Do you agree that knowingly obstructing justice is impeachable? Those were in the articles of impeachment for Richard Nixon.

 

[MaggieD]

Let's start with the basics.

Is Russia a hostile foreign power?

This is what our CIA director said, “It is time to call out WikiLeaks for what it really is – a non-state hostile intelligence serviceoften abetted by state actors like Russia.”

We know they sent Twitter bots to sow racial conflict.



Exclusive: Fake black activist social media accounts linked to Russian government - Sep. 28, 2017

Are you telling me that the president elect conspiring with a foreign enemy to help them is not an impeachable act?

Moreover, Trump knew that Flynn broke the law and he still tried to get Comey and Congress to drop the investigation. That is obstruction of justice. That's an impeachable offense. Do you agree that knowingly obstructing justice is impeachable? Those were in the articles of impeachment for Richard Nixon.

All I’m concerned about right now is his tweet from today that would lead one to believe that when he fired Flynn, he knew he’d lied to the FBI.

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlvOwtJ5Euc

That's all BEFORE the Russian cyberattacks and the U.S. imposed sanctions on them. We tried to reset the relationship but they attacked us.

That's like saying someone wanting good relations with Japan before the Perl Harbor attack is equivalent to someone colluding with Japan after they attacked.

Do you deny that the CIA directors characterization of Russia as hostile is true? Do you deny that Russia helped blow up a hospital to cover up Assad's use of Chemical weapons?

Country first. Politics second. Trump is traitor.

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

All I’m concerned about right now is his tweet from today that would lead one to believe that when he fired Flynn, he knew he’d lied to the FBI.

And when he asked Comey to stop investigating Flynn and then fired him when he didn't, he was obstructing justice. That's a crime.

 

[Casca XV]

Mueller is an experienced prosecutor. If you had a guy as close to Trump as Flynn by the balls, would you accept anything less than him rolling on Trump? Of course, not. That's not wishful thinking, that's common sense. It sounds like you're in denial.



I didn't say any of this PROVES that Trump is guilty. It strongly suggests that Flynn gave Mueller something incriminating about Trump to drop very serious charges on him and his son. Do you deny that a plea deal with cooperation suggests that?



I would prefer Pence, even if he's more far right than Trump. I don't believe Pence is a traitor. I do believe Trump sold out America either because of his financial deals with Russia or because he's being blackmailed. I don't care what Trump's reasons are.

The FACTS are Russia is a HOSTILE foreign power:

1. Russia has used cyberwarfare to attack us

2. Russia has used cyberwarfare to attack our NATO allies

3. Russia helped Assad blow up a hospital full of chemical weapons victims to cover up for Assad

4. Russia was sanctioned by Obama and new sanctions were overwhelmingly approved by Congress

5. All our intelligence agencies claim Russia is hostile

This is Mike Pompeo, CIA director, on Wikileaks and Russia (Remember Trump "I love Wikileaks"?)



https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ands-wikileaks-a-hostile-intelligence-service

Yet, for some crazy inexplicable reason, our president refuses to acknowledge any of this. He sent Flynn to tell the Russians not to worry about the sanctions Obama imposed.

I don't mind regular politics. I don't care if conservative idiots get into power. But Trump is a traitor. You can't be so attached to one man that you're blind to how he has betrayed our country to an enemy.

"Russia is a hostel foreign power" And Obama/Hillary sold them 20% control of US uranium production. Of the two campaigns it only Hillary's who is proven to have actually colluded with them.

 

[MaggieD]

And when he asked Comey to stop investigating Flynn and then fired him when he didn't, he was obstructing justice. That's a crime.

If they can prove that’s why he fired him, you may be right.

 

[MaggieD]

That's all BEFORE the Russian cyberattacks and the U.S. imposed sanctions on them. We tried to reset the relationship but they attacked us.

That's like saying someone wanting good relations with Japan before the Perl Harbor attack is equivalent to someone colluding with Japan after they attacked.

Do you deny that the CIA directors characterization of Russia as hostile is true? Do you deny that Russia helped blow up a hospital to cover up Assad's use of Chemical weapons?

Country first. Politics second. Trump is traitor.

Here comes the hyperbole.

 

[Nickyjo]

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-kovalik/obama-adminstration-guilt_b_8916380.html

A sad story of the US aiding an ally that acts viciously in our perceived interest. No different than the US supporting the bombing of Dresden in WWII. But what’s your point? Do you assume Trump will change US policy? Let me know when he does. Hypocrisy is endemic in politics, even when it comes to mass killings, but my point was that Trump crossed a clear line when he said he wants to do torture that’s worse than waterboarding and kill the families of terrorists. The Japanese and Germans did that, and we, the Hiroshima victors, hanged them for it.

I put a bomb on an airplane that kills civilians, and if I am caught and jailed, I am called a terrorist. I drop that same bomb from an airplane and kill the same civilians, and if I am caught and jailed, I am a war hero. The international community accepts this apparent contradiction. The best we can do seems to be to bring to justice the retail killers, while tolerating those who kill wholesale. So be it. Trump may be a wise philosopher pointing out this hypocrisy, but I doubt he even comprehends the notion. His irresponsibility, as evidenced by those comments on the campaign I mentioned and his tweets the past days on Muslims (which echo anti-Semitic stuff from Germany in the 1930s) are appalling, and shame us as a nation. The saving grace is that the world can distinguish our leadership from our people.

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

Here comes the hyperbole.

You must be thinking of Donald Trump

“The final key to the way I promote is bravado. I play to people’s fantasies. People may not always think big themselves, but they can still get very excited by those who do. That’s why a little hyperbole never hurts. People want to believe that something is the biggest and the greatest and the most spectacular. I call it truthful hyperbole. It’s an innocent form of exaggeration—and a very effective form of promotion.”

Unlike Trump, I'm not engaging in "trutful hyperbole." Trump only cares about himself. He sold America out to the Russians. That's the truth whether you're ready to face it or not.

I like James Comey's tweet today

‪Beautiful Long Island Sound from Westport, CT. To paraphrase the Buddha — Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun; the moon; and the truth. ‬

The truth will reveal itself.

 

[MaggieD]

You must be thinking of Donald Trump



Unlike Trump, I'm not engaging in "trutful hyperbole." Trump only cares about himself. He sold America out to the Russians. That's the truth whether you're ready to face it or not.

I like James Comey's tweet today



The truth will reveal itself.

“Donald Trump is a traitor,” is the hyperbole of which I speak.

And while we’re about it, please tell us specifically what Teump did to “sell us out”to the Russians.

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

“Donald Trump is a traitor,” is the hyperbole of which I speak.

And while we’re about it, please tell us specifically what Teump did to “sell us out”to the Russians.

While Donald Trump was running for president in late 2015 and early 2016, his company was pursuing a plan to develop a massive Trump Tower in Moscow, according to several people familiar with the proposal and new records reviewed by Trump Organization lawyers.

As part of the discussions, a Russian-born real estate developer urged Trump to come to Moscow to tout the proposal and suggested that he could get President Vladimir Putin to say “great things” about Trump, according to several people who have been briefed on his correspondence.

The developer, Felix Sater, predicted in a November 2015 email that he and Trump Organization leaders would soon be celebrating — both one of the biggest residential projects in real estate history and Donald Trump’s election as president, according to two of the people with knowledge of the exchange.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...b4e4bb76a3a_story.html?utm_term=.5ef9a4757972

The great mystery in this whole mess is why was Trump so insitent on lifting sanctions on Russia and praising Putin? Was it due to his financial relationships with Russia? Was it because he was being blackmailed? Either way, it's a betrayal of America.

Trump's only allegiance is to himself and his money.

 

[Moderate Right]

That's all BEFORE the Russian cyberattacks and the U.S. imposed sanctions on them. We tried to reset the relationship but they attacked us.

That's like saying someone wanting good relations with Japan before the Perl Harbor attack is equivalent to someone colluding with Japan after they attacked.

Do you deny that the CIA directors characterization of Russia as hostile is true? Do you deny that Russia helped blow up a hospital to cover up Assad's use of Chemical weapons?

Country first. Politics second. Trump is traitor.

Oh. So now you're saying that a president can impose sanctions on a country but can't unimpose sanctions.

 

[Moderate Right]

A sad story of the US aiding an ally that acts viciously in our perceived interest. No different than the US supporting the bombing of Dresden in WWII. But what’s your point? Do you assume Trump will change US policy? Let me know when he does. Hypocrisy is endemic in politics, even when it comes to mass killings, but my point was that Trump crossed a clear line when he said he wants to do torture that’s worse than waterboarding and kill the families of terrorists. The Japanese and Germans did that, and we, the Hiroshima victors, hanged them for it.

I put a bomb on an airplane that kills civilians, and if I am caught and jailed, I am called a terrorist. I drop that same bomb from an airplane and kill the same civilians, and if I am caught and jailed, I am a war hero. The international community accepts this apparent contradiction. The best we can do seems to be to bring to justice the retail killers, while tolerating those who kill wholesale. So be it. Trump may be a wise philosopher pointing out this hypocrisy, but I doubt he even comprehends the notion. His irresponsibility, as evidenced by those comments on the campaign I mentioned and his tweets the past days on Muslims (which echo anti-Semitic stuff from Germany in the 1930s) are appalling, and shame us as a nation. The saving grace is that the world can distinguish our leadership from our people.

Trump is a different animal. You have to understand him to understand him. Funny how you lefties say that Trump lies all the time but when he says things you can use to your political advantage, all of a sudden he's telling the truth.

 

[Nickyjo]

Trump is a different animal. You have to understand him to understand him. Funny how you lefties say that Trump lies all the time but when he says things you can use to your political advantage, all of a sudden he's telling the truth.

Big difference between easily disproved lies which trait well documented by both left and right and proposed policies that violate any norms of decency as well as the law. What am I failing to understand about killing innocent people? That he is lying?

 

[iliveonramen]

There is nothing wrong with "colluding" with foreign governments, including Russia. It's done all the time. Hell, the Clintons and Obama did it all the time. Hell, Obama colluded with the Iranians by paying them billions of dollars in cash ransom to release our sailors they took hostage. I was watching left leaning ABC News last night and even they were saying that the only evidence of "collusion" seemed to be talking to the Russians about working together to fight ISIS.

There's a very big difference between Obama's negotiations as President of the United States and what Trump may of done. You can validate your support however you want.