Michael Cohen pleads guilty to lying to Congress about Trump real estate project in Russia

[jghiretire]

There I have to disagree. The racist illiterates and ideologues are as "American" as you are, and has as far as I know been a part of the fabric since the beginning. They are the same people who drove "Eugenics Movement"; it was part of the fabric every time I was arrested for standing still at a peace demonstrations, always on the sidelines hurling epithets like "N-lover".

It IS the NRA, the Southern Baptist Church and on. There has always been two sides, at least, to any hate coin in the US, and appear to hate each other more than real "enemies". They are 43% or more of the electorate, close to half. Where I sit someone gets out of a car with American plates I figure a 50-50 chance he's a racist who would sooner invade Canada than live next,

And they are the same people who have fought social security, Obamacare, etc. to the point of deliberately spreading lies and falsehoods about my country.

They have always been there, the hate just roiling under the surface. Trump has merely given them authenticity.

Thank you. Sad but true.

 

[Excon]

You can't meddle with an investigation.

When the House of Representatives drew up Nixon’s articles of impeachment, it explicitly included that he obstructed justice through his efforts to use his clemency powers to undermine the investigation. The articles stated that Nixon had been “endeavouring to cause prospective defendants, and individuals duly tried and convicted, to expect favoured treatment and consideration in return for their silence or false testimony, or rewarding individuals for their silence or false testimony.” Specifically, Nixon had discussed offering clemency to one of the Watergate burglars in exchange for favorable testimony.

link...​

So sorry... deal with it.

iLOL
1. No. The person you are responding to is correct.
2. And? That does not mean it was actual obstruction. Or did you really not know that? An article of impeachment is an allegation of the political nature that is believed to be a reason to impeach and to remove the person from office. That is all.
And in Nixon's case- untried. So you have no idea if that actual article would have been entertained and even if it had been and he had been impeached and found guilty of the acts would not mean it was obstruction for purposes of the Law.

 

[Mach]

You need to reread the last sentence of my post. There will be no obstruction of justice charges on Trumpnfor firing Comey.

So out of all this evidence for obstruction that we know of already in public:

1. Reports break that President directly asks Coats and head of NSA (Mike) to make public statements to say they knew Trump hadn't colluded with Russia.
2. trump also asked Coats and Pompeo to interfere with Comey's investigations - Pompeo refuses to answer, and says "I don't recall"
3. Comey was asked to back off investigation into Flynn
4. Trump directed sessions to not recuse because he felt he can't control the investigation
5. Trump asked the AG to stop the investigation (Attorney General Jeff Sessions should stop this rigged witch hunt right now". Guilianni says he wasn't serious.
6. retweeting the picture of everyone opposing him behind bars, asked why Rosenstein should be behind bars. Trump responds - she should have never picked a special counsel.
7. In june told white house counsel to fire special counsel
8. Again in December
9. aug 9th last year, to Mitch McConnell for refusing to protected Trump from the Russian investigation
10. directed senate leadership to stop the senate intelligence committee investigation into Russian meddling
11. personally helped concoct false statements about the Trump Tower meeting for Don Jr.
12. President's attorneys discussed pardons with Manafort and Flynn
13. Trump specifically says a pardon for Manafort is on the table
14. Trump's attorney's bragging that Manafort, a convicted felon, while supposedly cooperating with Mueller, was feeding information to them
15. firing sessions and installing Whitaker, a partisan, conflicted, Trump loyalist who is not qualified to be AG
16. Trump admits he installed Whitaker because of the Russia investigation
17 Recently departed FBI General Counsel Jim Baker, seemingly in response, writes a piece about Nixon using contact with the Justice Department to spy on the investigation into him (Nixon).
->>18. Firing Comey, head of the investigation into Russia, for "this Rusher thing".

So you think number 18 in the list of evidence for obstruction that we have in the public already, you think that one doesn't rise to obstruction? Wow, that really changed the narrative.

 

[poweRob]

Yes he did. And it is a legit concern of those of us who believe in equal justice under the law. Nothing about Hillary's and Trump's (Muelller) investigations are remotely similar. It makes me and others feel our justice system is seriously broken

It was an obvious rhetorical question. Hence why he used the word "we" instead of directing it at me. And also probably why he chose to end that sentence with a period and not a question mark.

 

[jghiretire]

Maddow tonight felt like a bombshell. Basically tying half of the drama to the Trump Tower Moscow project. So many strings tied together it was unreal.

As you point out, Maria Butino was the one asking him the question where Trump suddenly, inexplicable, and outside all the other Republicans, opposed Russian sanctions.!? They had footage of it, that red hair is unmistakable...wow.
Felix and Cohen trying to get the Trump Tower deal off the ground, working through the same Russian, Kremlin contact Dmitry Peskov, (who was involved in other efforts against the U.S.)
The Kremlin lines up funding for Trump Tower Moscow, through VTB bank.
VTB Bank is under U.S. sanction.
Trump, Cohen, and they pull in Michael Flynn and KT McFarland to all work on getting the U.S. to lift sanctions for their big deal to go through.

The day of or day after the story breaks that Russia hacked the DNC, Cohen meets with Felix and calls the Trump Tower Project off.
Felix claims they scuttled the deal because of this.

Cohen lies about the Trump Tower deal and Trump's awareness of it.
Flynn lies about his contacts with Russia and discussion of sanctions. Why?
McFarland lies about his contacts with Russia and sanctions. Why?
They lie in public, on the record, and under oath.
Flynn is indicted on perjury and obstruction.
KT McFarland revises her statement...oops, I remember we DID meet with Russians and discuss sanctions...

And next week we'll see some of Flynn's information in court. All apparently to coverup the quid pro quo, which appears to have resulted in team Trump being compromised by Russia.

Looks like Trump Tower Moscow was Trump's big plan, lift sanctions on VTB, score big. But they got compromised, Trump was installed as President, and he continued to work tireless to lift/prevent sanctions.
Sanctions are passed veto-proof, Trump slow-walks them, waters them down, I'm not even sure he's implement all of that even today.

That still leaves Wikileaks (part of the getting him installed), which will hit apparently Stone and Corsi, if not others.
Kushner was also involved in Russian discussions, I'm wondering if he's gonna be fingered in some of this too.
Wow.

LOL Yes - I was listening to her too.

 

[Athanasius68]

You are grasping at straws. Trump's firing of Comey will be listed as one of many attributes of obstruction of justice on the part of the President. The stated reasons were a sham and inconsistent with what Trump himself said about it going forward. OoJ is a crime of intent. Showing intent will be quite easy given there are so many consistent examples going forward.

If Comey's firing were an isolated incidence that could argued as OoJ, you might have an argument, but it wasn't, so you don't.

The FBI director serves at the pleasure of the president; the rationale doesnt matter. It also has nothing to do with anything else. Comey was clear-- Trump was not under investigation. End of story.
Did Obama obstruct justice when he ordered the Justice Dept to stop deportations of the people subsequently under DACA? No. The same with Trump terminating Comey.

 

[Athanasius68]

So out of all this evidence for obstruction that we know of already in public:

1. Reports break that President directly asks Coats and head of NSA (Mike) to make public statements to say they knew Trump hadn't colluded with Russia.
2. trump also asked Coats and Pompeo to interfere with Comey's investigations - Pompeo refuses to answer, and says "I don't recall"
3. Comey was asked to back off investigation into Flynn
4. Trump directed sessions to not recuse because he felt he can't control the investigation
5. Trump asked the AG to stop the investigation (Attorney General Jeff Sessions should stop this rigged witch hunt right now". Guilianni says he wasn't serious.
6. retweeting the picture of everyone opposing him behind bars, asked why Rosenstein should be behind bars. Trump responds - she should have never picked a special counsel.
7. In june told white house counsel to fire special counsel
8. Again in December
9. aug 9th last year, to Mitch McConnell for refusing to protected Trump from the Russian investigation
10. directed senate leadership to stop the senate intelligence committee investigation into Russian meddling
11. personally helped concoct false statements about the Trump Tower meeting for Don Jr.
12. President's attorneys discussed pardons with Manafort and Flynn
13. Trump specifically says a pardon for Manafort is on the table
14. Trump's attorney's bragging that Manafort, a convicted felon, while supposedly cooperating with Mueller, was feeding information to them
15. firing sessions and installing Whitaker, a partisan, conflicted, Trump loyalist who is not qualified to be AG
16. Trump admits he installed Whitaker because of the Russia investigation
17 Recently departed FBI General Counsel Jim Baker, seemingly in response, writes a piece about Nixon using contact with the Justice Department to spy on the investigation into him (Nixon).
->>18. Firing Comey, head of the investigation into Russia, for "this Rusher thing".

So you think number 18 in the list of evidence for obstruction that we have in the public already, you think that one doesn't rise to obstruction? Wow, that really changed the narrative.

1. And...?
2. When...?
3, 4, 5, and 6. The president is head of the executive dept. All of these falls under his authority.
7 and 8. Did it happen? Then so what?
9. No idea what this is referring to.
10. And...?
11. No crime to lie to the media.
12. Not clear
13. And...? He has the authority.
14. There was a legal joint defense agreement
15. The AG serves at the president pleasure
Whittaker is qualified.
16. When did he do this?
17. ?

 

[Atomic Kid]

Yes he did. And it is a legit concern of those of us who believe in equal justice under the law. Nothing about Hillary's and Trump's (Muelller) investigations are remotely similar. It makes me and others feel our justice system is seriously broken

You're damn right there isn't. Trump is a by far a much bigger threat to our constitution, democracy and the rule of law than anything Hillary could ever have contemplated or concocted.

 

[calamity]

You're damn right there isn't. Trump is a by far a much bigger threat to our constitution, democracy and the rule of law than anything Hillary could ever have contemplated or concocted.

That certainly is what normal people believe. Idiots not so much.

 

[Atomic Kid]

You need to reread the last sentence of my post. There will be no obstruction of justice charges on Trumpnfor firing Comey. Sorry but you are still in shock that Hillary lost and you think Trump cheated. Hillary lost because she lied through her teeth about her emails and she spent her time hobknobing with the rich elites on on Martha’s Vinyard and Hollywood. And in the meanwhile Trump was giving up to 5 rallies a day. In states Hillary neglected . It came back to bite her in the ass. Actually I believe what Trump wrote in Comey’s terminayion letter and what he told Holt. And I told you why I think it was legal in my previous post .

If you are saying that you believe the reason he gave to Lester Holt as to why he fired Comey then that would be obstruction.

 

[Chomsky]

His Tax returns are Under Audit by the IRS for Years.

That's immaterial.

In what way is it shield from preview of a government entity. If there was FRAUD or cases of Fraud with the IRS NOT have been on it for years by now?

Fraud is not (necessarily) the point. Possible conflict of interest is.

Secondly, JUST because he has NOT released it Publicly does not mean its not in the hands of federal prosecutors, IRS Agents nor the Mueller probe.

He can run a business this LONG without being scrutinized by taxes.... So while he may have some funny business.. Much like Manafort if they can find it... he may be seeing BIG fines... But Impeachment, Criminal charges...doubt it.


So honestly. Not sure what is SO important about his Tax returns. Funny I though this was about Russian Collusion.....

Again. For transparency, so prospective voters can make an informed decision as to whether a prospective candidate has possible conflicts of interest.

 

[Chomsky]

Interesting to find out that Mario Butina back in 2015 asked Trump what he would do regarding sanctions on Russia. Keep in mind the Moscow Tower deal. Fast forward to Trump getting elected and Flynn talking to Russia and telling them not to react to the sanctions imposed by Obama because Trump would "take care of it". By itself that would be weird but not illegal. Yet Flynn lied about it. Why? Timeline shows Moscow Trump Tower being "closed" June 14, 2016 per meeting with Cohen and Sater. June 16, 2016 is when the DNC is getting hacked. Very interesting timeline.
None of this would have mattered if Trump didn't get elected.

Yep. What we're seeing is so many coincidences, it boggles the mind.

 

[Atomic Kid]

IN all fairness I am happy to see justice served. If Cohen is guilty. He should go to Jail, If Manafort is guilt he should go to Jail. If Trump is guilty he should go to Jail. With that being said. Why are we trying on side of the law to only the republicans ALL of those that did break the law in the last administration. Seem to get immunity or never were charged. Thats my concern. I am ABOUT the fairness of the law to included Kavanaugh type situation. When accused with no factual evidence.

Cohen has already pleaded guilty. Manafort has been convicted of several counts and acknowledged his wrong doing in the charges yet outstanding in the deal he cut with Mueller. Which he violated. So he's definitely headed to prison for several years. Cohen I think will be sentenced to some time in prison as well.

 

[Atomic Kid]

Yep. What we're seeing is so many coincidences, it boggles the mind.

I don't think Cohen cancelling his travel plans to Russia almost immediately after the FBI announced that it believed that Russia was behind the hacking the DNC was coincidence. I also think that it's going to turn out that being elected President was the worse thing that ever happened to Trump.

 

[jghiretire]

It's not a criminal matter, and there was no basis to start an investigation. The public is with Trump, even if the Deep State and the Swamp are at odds with him.

I beg to differ - MOST of the public is not with Trump. Remember?? He lost the popular vote.

 

[Chomsky]

I don't think Cohen cancelling his travel plans to Russia almost immediately after the FBI announced that it believed that Russia was behind the hacking the DNC was coincidence. I also think that it's going to turn out that being elected President was the worse thing that ever happened to Trump.

The bolded is beyond certain.

Cohen has been meeting with not just Mueller & the SDNY feds, but also with the NY State A.G. and Manhattan A.G. And he's vowed to cooperate with them all. In addition: All of the Mueller & SDNY charges & indictments, and plea agreement allocutions, not just Cohen's, are being poured over by SDNY, NY State, and the Manhattan A.G.s. And those allocutions are extensive and highly detailed, and become an accepted matter of court-record evidence.

If Trump, his family, and his org and associates don't go down during his Presidency, they will be getting hammered in courts for the better part of the next decade. I doubt he, his family, and his org will survive.

 

[Athanasius68]

I don't think Cohen cancelling his travel plans to Russia almost immediately after the FBI announced that it believed that Russia was behind the hacking the DNC was coincidence. I also think that it's going to turn out that being elected President was the worse thing that ever happened to Trump.

It started dawning on them that they were being played by Russia.

 

[Athanasius68]

As Maddow carefully explained last night - its all parts of the same plot and the same story with the same people.

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show

you want the one that starts with LIFTING RUSSIAN SANCTIONS

It is 25 minutes long and the real meat of it comes in the final 15 minutes where she ties the two stories seamlessly together.

Maddow's theory is long on Russia targeting Trump, and short on Trump involvement. Its more obvious to conclude from what she is saying is that he and the campaign were played by Russia. "Willing dupes" "useful idiots" whichever term is more appropriate. Her claims about Russian activity seems reasonable; but from the American side is simply inadequate and incorrect (is she really puzzled that Trump would shoot his mouth off to the sanctions question?? Is she really going to argue that the general perception of Russia by Americans that there are clear delineations of power between Putin and others-- with respects to cancelling the Moscow trip?? ).

 

[Mach]

Maddow's theory is long on Russia targeting Trump, and short on Trump involvement. Its more obvious to conclude from what she is saying is that he and the campaign were played by Russia. "Willing dupes" "useful idiots" whichever term is more appropriate.

Dumbest thing anyone would ever conclude. No one will seriously conclude that, it's too stupid.

Willingly engaged in a conflict of interest *but was duped* into it? Trump drafted the ****ing Trump Tower documents and sent his ****ing personal attorney their to float the deal. Ooops!? He has a history stretching back 30+ years in trying to land a deal in Russia, you need to be more creative in your fabrications.

Furthermore, if he was compromised unwittingly, oops, all he has to do is come clean. He chose not to, and to obstruct, so he'd be right back in the conspiracy game.

Unwitting....OMFG that's hilarious.

 

[HumblePi]

You need to reread the last sentence of my post. There will be no obstruction of justice charges on Trumpnfor firing Comey. Sorry but you are still in shock that Hillary lost and you think Trump cheated. Hillary lost because she lied through her teeth about her emails and she spent her time hobknobing with the rich elites on on Martha’s Vinyard and Hollywood. And in the meanwhile Trump was giving up to 5 rallies a day. In states Hillary neglected . It came back to bite her in the ass. Actually I believe what Trump wrote in Comey’s terminayion letter and what he told Holt. And I told you why I think it was legal in my previous post .[/QUOTE

LMAO! My "shock" ended November 9th and my fear began. Fear for our country and that fear was well-founded. I wasn't a Hillary fan but I was one that plugged my nose and voted for her rather than for an idiot who knew absolutely nothing about politics or how to be a leader. Do I think Trump 'cheated'? I think he colluded and worked alongside his Russian pals in order to demonized and defeat HRC. But that will all come out eventually and Trump is going to end up indicted in NY State for crimes.

 

[Atomic Kid]

It started dawning on them that they were being played by Russia.

No, rather it dawned on them after the exposure of the role of the Russian GRU's in the DNC hacking. That continuing negotiate a business deal to put up a building in the capital city of a hostile autocratic state in concert with the Kremlin itself was something that was no longer politically or operationally tenable.

 

[sanman]

I beg to differ - MOST of the public is not with Trump. Remember?? He lost the popular vote.

The fact that Trump's party held onto the Senate in mid-terms that have historically been lost by the ruling party in other past presidential terms says that Trump is more supported than you realize. I chalk it up to the hysteria from the Left which is alienating more and more voters.

 

[HumblePi]

The fact that Trump's party held onto the Senate in mid-terms that have historically been lost by the ruling party in other past presidential terms says that Trump is more supported than you realize. I chalk it up to the hysteria from the Left which is alienating more and more voters.

Here are the numbers that should be disturbing for Trump with the election of 2020 on the horizon.

This is why it's disturbing for Trump's future. After the completion of 8 quarters as president, there has never been a president since Eisenhower that has had poll numbers as low as 38. The only ones supporting him are his base which never expanded. This poll was taken prior to the revelations made by Cohen this week, this may or may not affect his poll numbers even more negatively, we'll have to wait to see. Nevertheless, Trump will not have any chance of re-election in 2020 with polling numbers so low. His biggest mistake was not trying to bring in the fold, increase his base, instead of merely placating the base he had from the beginning.

 

[sanman]

Here are the numbers that should be disturbing for Trump with the election of 2020 on the horizon.
<snip>
This is why it's disturbing for Trump's future. After the completion of 8 quarters as president, there has never been a president since Eisenhower that has had poll numbers as low as 38. The only ones supporting him are his base which never expanded. This poll was taken prior to the revelations made by Cohen this week, this may or may not affect his poll numbers even more negatively, we'll have to wait to see. Nevertheless, Trump will not have any chance of re-election in 2020 with polling numbers so low.

As I recall, all kinds of similarly "disturbing" poll numbers were similarly being belched up prior to November 2016. The quality of these polling numbers then resulted in disturbing scenes following the actual election:







(Thank you for giving me an opportunity to post that again, btw - I never get tired of watching it) :mrgreen:

His biggest mistake was not trying to bring in the fold, increase his base, instead of merely placating the base he had from the beginning.

His agenda to improve the American economy and create more American jobs by putting America First was certainly something that a broad swathe of people could appreciate and benefit from. So I call that an expansive and inclusive agenda, which helps every American. If you mean he wasn't trying to "bring in" more illegal Hondurans or Guatemalans to improve his polling numbers with them, then I'm sorry, but it can't be helped.

 

[SLC]

Yep. What we're seeing is so many coincidences, it boggles the mind.

Yep and that was about the same time Hillary was paying for a fake Russian dossier supposedly with information from deep inside the Kremlin. Werid.