Mexico Never Agreed to Farm Deal With U.S., Contradicting Trump

[JMR]

Well, since the rest of the world get's their news about the USA much like most Americans, from our news agencies and sharing via AP, UP, and other connections...I am not surprised that negative press would create a negative impression.

Of course I will admit that Trump's tougher stance on E.U. participation in paying their agreed-upon share of NATO costs (in the form of their own GDP percentages in military spending), and his push for fairer trade in Europe too...that would cause some waves.

But "America First" is just as valid a position as their ideologies IMHO. :coffeepap:

Obviously you wish to continue the false premise that press coverage of Trump is negative, as opposed to the press covers Trump's negative behavior. Trump claims this specious argument himself, and thinks Europe should be informed by Fox News.

 

[JMR]

Yaaawwwwnnnnnn.

Does not surprise me in the least! Do you just wake up to post?

 

[Captain Adverse]

What do you base this on?

Sorry I was unclear...I was using your other thread (Mexico agreed to take Border...) regarding the border agreements reported by the NYT when responding to that Member's comment, not the agricultural issue posed by your OP in this thread.

I have no comment on the agricultural issue raised in this thread because I honestly have no knowledge of it one way or the other. I should have been clearer in my example. Sorry.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Obviously you wish to continue the false premise that press coverage of Trump is negative, as opposed to the press covers Trump's negative behavior. Trump claims this specious argument himself, and thinks Europe should be informed by Fox News.

Not a false premise. Trump does make mistakes, and when he does I have no problems when such is reported honestly.

However, the MSM has also provided misinformation, false information, and engaged in framing information to present it in the worst light possible. They also typically attempt to minimize his successes, when they bother to report on them at all.

 

[calamity]

Not a false premise. Trump does make mistakes, and when he does I have no problems when such is reported honestly.

However, the MSM has also provided misinformation, false information, and engaged in framing information to present it in the worst light possible. They also typically attempt to minimize his successes, when they bother to report on them at all.

Mexico pay for that wall yet?

 

[JMR]

Not a false premise. Trump does make mistakes, and when he does I have no problems when such is reported honestly.

However, the MSM has also provided misinformation, false information, and engaged in framing information to present it in the worst light possible. They also typically attempt to minimize his successes, when they bother to report on them at all.

Yup, that is exactly what Trump claims. Which success was not reported?

 

[Bullseye]

'Yawn' to facts, 'yawn' to the truth. It's people like you who are responsible for this democracy fiasco.

Haven't seen any facts or truth from the libs lately. Just spin, twists, irrelevant blather and general effluvia.

 

[jimbo]

Did north korea comply with trump's demands/requests? Saying something doesn't mean it's gonna happen. Let's see how long those armed troops in mexico keep up their vigilance.

When they stop, Mexico is 1 Tweet away from major tariffs. I think they know it.

 

[bongsaway]

When they stop, Mexico is 1 Tweet away from major tariffs. I think they know it.

Americans pay the tariffs but somehow I'm wondering if you know it?

 

[HumblePi]

Haven't seen any facts or truth from the libs lately. Just spin, twists, irrelevant blather and general effluvia.

Blah-blah-blah, same ole, same ole rhetoric from you. "spin, twists, irrelevant blather". You never confront facts, you brush them aside because you simply can't face facts. And....that's a fact!

 

[notquiteright]

Huh? Mexico only came to the table because of the tariffs. It looks to me like you're stirring up a bull**** storm by trying to conflate Trump's announcement of the deal on Friday with some other Tweet on Saturday. You're own link says the State Department release didn't mention this alleged agreement by Mexico to buy more ag products from us. Sounds like two separate issues. I'll leave you to your continuing sour grapes rants.

Huh??? I thought the Great and Powerful OZ had already 'forced' them to the table by renegotiating NAFTA???? But tRump needed more red meat for the low intelligence tRumpers. Sooo let's ramp up the drama and use the same tree shaker- tariff... :roll:

You have to ignore the comments of the Mexican officials claiming no side deals they know of... :doh

We have a serial liar- you do remember the tRump prance and dance over 'averting war in Korea'... that the mass murderer was going to give up his nukes??? The reality is so far below that hype it is insane- however tRump has spewed so many outright lies from literally the first day of his administration (you do remember the crowd size crap right???) we have become somewhat numb with one more lie.

It isn't sour grapes but rather heaving over the latest stench coming from the Fake Tan Guy... eace

 

[Lovebug]

So, all jokes aside, post the agreement, in its entirety, so we can see for ourselves.

 

[CMPancake]

Liberals handed it to them.

Donald Trump is the one selling weapons to Saudi Arabia and granting them means to a nuclear arsenal. Try again.

 

[bubbabgone]

This is the problem with the OP's citation AND the way the Anti-Trump elements look at these issues.

Mexico had agreed to take actions Trump was citing "months ago" and yet did not. Trump got fed up with recent border crossing numbers occurring despite Mexico's prior agreements...so he "took action."

He openly demands that Mexico either take steps to act, or face tariffs until they do. They decided to act, he then reversed on the tariffs.

FRAMING is the key, and the Left always tries to frame his actions in the worst light possible.

Yeah I thought that was pretty obvious despite the NYT spinning the events their way.
But hey, if we didn't have the desperate NYT spin we wouldn't have the desperate DP posters spinning the desperate NYT spin and there'd be no place like DP to vent and they might resort to something worse.

 

[bubbabgone]

So, all jokes aside, post the agreement, in its entirety, so we can see for ourselves.

U.S.-Mexico Joint Declaration - United States Department of State

 

[j-mac]

I know that yet another "Trump lied" story is incredibly quaint by now, but it does beg two important questions:

Begging the Question
petitio principii

(also known as: assuming the initial point, assuming the answer, chicken and the egg argument, circulus in probando, circular reasoning [form of], vicious circle)

Description: Any form of argument where the conclusion is assumed in one of the premises. Many people use the phrase “begging the question” incorrectly when they use it to mean, “prompts one to ask the question”. That is NOT the correct usage. Begging the question is a form of circular reasoning.

Begging the Question

Then go straight into another one....

1) How has our country managed to function while its head of state has had precisely zero credibility?
2) Could I lie to people infinity times and just...get away with it?"

False Dilemma
(also known as: all-or-nothing fallacy, false dichotomy*, the either-or fallacy, either-or reasoning, fallacy of false choice, fallacy of false alternatives, black-and-white thinking, the fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses, bifurcation, excluded middle, no middle ground, polarization)

Description: When only two choices are presented yet more exist, or a spectrum of possible choices exists between two extremes. False dilemmas are usually characterized by “either this or that” language, but can also be characterized by omissions of choices. Another variety is the false trilemma, which is when three choices are presented when more exist.

False Dilemma

Prediction that I will deserve no credit for making: trump supporters will pretend to doubt the veracity of the story. Then, upon realizing that denying the article is futile after realizing later in the thread that they didn't read the totality of it, they'll move on to "so what?" or "ha ha tds."

No one cares about your hatred of everyone that doesn't agree with you there buddy...Big shocker, President's that are in opposition to your political beliefs, and world view is not going to pursue agendas that you want them to...:shock:

 

[smallvoice]

Trump is allowing the country that supported the 9/11 attacks to have nuclear weapons.

Are you confused? I vote yes.

 

[ElChupacabra]

I know that yet another "Trump lied" story is incredibly quaint by now, but it does beg two important questions:

1) How has our country managed to function while its head of state has had precisely zero credibility?
2) Could I lie to people infinity times and just...get away with it?"



Mexico Never Agreed to Farm Deal With U.S., Contradicting Trump - Bloomberg

Prediction that I will deserve no credit for making: trump supporters will pretend to doubt the veracity of the story. Then, upon realizing that denying the article is futile after realizing later in the thread that they didn't read the totality of it, they'll move on to "so what?" or "ha ha tds."

It seems that as it relates to Mexico and receiving money, the key requirement is believing what Trump says when the check(s) are deposited.

 

[Helix]

I know that yet another "Trump lied" story is incredibly quaint by now, but it does beg two important questions:

1) How has our country managed to function while its head of state has had precisely zero credibility?

economic inertia and the coke bump of the latest round of tax cuts for the rich.

2) Could I lie to people infinity times and just...get away with it?"

only if you dupe yourself a cult to back you.

 

[j-mac]

It seems that as it relates to Mexico and receiving money, the key requirement is believing what Trump says when the check(s) are deposited.

Morning El Chup....Wouldn't you say it is prudent to believe any deal, from any President, liberal, or conservative, when the checks are deposited? The win here is that we finally have a President that is standing up to our partners around the world and calling them out for taking our money while NOT living up to their ends of past deals....

 

[poweRob]

If I was a Trump supporter, I'd be pretty pissed that he lies to me all the time, regardless how many illegals he locks up and liberals he puts in their place. I tend to dislike those people, like Trump, who live off of insulting my intelligence.

But, that would probably explain why I am not one of his sycophants.

One thing I can give trump credit for is that he's showed clearly that the right in this country could ever give a **** about policy. Their policy beliefs are whatever the cult leader tells them from one day to the next no matter how much it may be a 180 from the previous day.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Morning El Chup....Wouldn't you say it is prudent to believe any deal, from any President, liberal, or conservative, when the checks are deposited? The win here is that we finally have a President that is standing up to our partners around the world and calling them out for taking our money while NOT living up to their ends of past deals....

Mornin' j-mac. I was speaking figuratively because this isn't a check coming directly to the US government, but the promise of Mexican importers to buy more US agricultural products. The problem here is Mexican officials don't seem to recall this aspect of the deal, and it wasn't mentioned in Obrador's speech on the matter. It's a question of this administration's credibility since it's come out Mexico had already agreed to ramp up their border security. The question with Trump has always been the substance behind the bluster; standing up only means something if you can deliver a substantive solution. So far we have a declaration but no actual deal; much as it's been with North Korea. These agreements are a start, but not the point where I'd run across the finish line claiming victory.

 

[j-mac]

I was speaking figuratively because this isn't a check coming directly to the US government, but the promise of Mexican importers to buy more US agricultural products. The problem here is Mexican officials don't seem to recall this aspect of the deal, and it wasn't mentioned in Obrador's speech on the matter. It's a question of this administration's credibility since it's come out Mexico had already agreed to ramp up their border security. The question with Trump has always been the substance behind the bluster; standing up only means something if you can deliver a substantive solution. So far we have a declaration but no actual deal; much as it's been with North Korea. These agreements are a start, but not the point where I'd run across the finish line claiming victory.

I get it....You would rather believe Mexico, or frankly anyone other than the President...Forget the fact that they could be lying....What was the last show of force Mexico put at their southern border? 500 police that stood there and watched the caravans stream through? So, they have pledged to now up that with actual military, how is that not a win? The article is pure anti Trump BS, and a refusal to admit that what he is doing is effective is only a problem with what you irrationally think of the man, not anything to do with policy.

 

[ElChupacabra]

I get it....You would rather believe Mexico, or frankly anyone other than the President...Forget the fact that they could be lying....What was the last show of force Mexico put at their southern border? 500 police that stood there and watched the caravans stream through? So, they have pledged to now up that with actual military, how is that not a win? The article is pure anti Trump BS, and a refusal to admit that what he is doing is effective is only a problem with what you irrationally think of the man, not anything to do with policy.

It's not a matter of belief at all; it's the skepticism I have of politicians in general. The proof of eating is always in the pudding, and so far there's only a recipe. I am highly skeptical of Trump because all of his past actions and bending of the truth when it suits his needs. Mexico has indeed taken some action thus far, and the question I posed in another thread was the success will be measured over time because whether Mexico sustains the same level of effort is the big variable here. The other question I had was how their compliance was going to be measured since we have no metrics in place to hold them accountable; is it a reduction of immigration by a certain percentage? Is it a quota of migrants per month? Who knows.

If you're not asking these questions, then you're the opposite of what you're claiming I am; which is one who just supports their leader because they say what you want to hear. Politics is a tricky business, and we should always be questioning policy regardless of whether we agree with it or not. Salesmen rely on those who don't question their pitch.

 

[j-mac]

It's not a matter of belief at all; it's the skepticism I have of politicians in general. The proof of eating is always in the pudding, and so far there's only a recipe. I am highly skeptical of Trump because all of his past actions and bending of the truth when it suits his needs. Mexico has indeed taken some action thus far, and the question I posed in another thread was the success will be measured over time because whether Mexico sustains the same level of effort is the big variable here. The other question I had was how their compliance was going to be measured since we have no metrics in place to hold them accountable; is it a reduction of immigration by a certain percentage? Is it a quota of migrants per month? Who knows.

If you're not asking these questions, then you're the opposite of what you're claiming I am; which is one who just supports their leader because they say what you want to hear. Politics is a tricky business, and we should always be questioning policy regardless of whether we agree with it or not. Salesmen rely on those who don't question their pitch.

Well, you've only been here for about a year or so, so it is hard to say whether or not you actually would be consistent in what you are saying here...The only way to tell will be to see how you react when the next Democrat is in office. Which from what I see might be a long time from now...