Masterpiece Cakeshop owner in court again for denying LGBTQ customer

[Lisa]

The shop only refuses orders for LGBT themed cakes, which is why the scumbag continues to harass the owner.

His religious beliefs do not create an exemption from obeying secular law. if he bakes a wedding cake or any other cake for someone then he must serve all people equally.

 

[Lisa]

Honestly I hope the owner now just files a restraining order against the scumbag.

The owner doesnt have standing to file that claim. Being required to obey the law isn't harassment.

 

[AlphaOmega]

Public accommodation laws are pretty clear. If you want to open your business to the public, you have to open it to the public. If you don't, you can hand select your clientele by any metric you choose. You don't get to... have your cake and eat it too.

On a moral note, there's literally nothing in the bible about the alleged sin of baking a cake for a homosexual and this guy is no different than a bigot who would hang a "No negroes" sign in front of his shop. Interacting with black people was also once claimed to be a violation of their religion by bigoted Christians. I'm glad we stopped tolerating that bull****.

There doesn't need to be a single thing in the bible about cakes. Religion is covered under the 1st. Can I make a kosher deli make me a non kosher sandwich?

 

[WillyPete]

Wrong. I have no "right" to force you to enter into a business contract with me. Only the political left could come up with something so absurd.

It was the business owner's choice to operate as a public accommodation. Part of that is abiding by the regional public accommodation laws.

No force, they opted in.

They could operate in a few other forms that wouldn't have these requirements, but they want to have it both ways.

As far as the complainant "picking on" the business owner, when you make enemies, you will have enemies.

When you expose yourself to legal liability, your enemies are going to start making phone calls.

All of this is driven by the business owner's decisions.

 

[Old 'N Chill]

That wasn't the reason for the refusal. If you read the article the significance of the cake went against the owner's religious beliefs, which is a federally protected right.

He's in business to make cakes and sell them to paying customers, not to judge them and discriminate against them because of his religious "beliefs", he can believe when he's at home or in church, when he runs a business for profit that serves the public, then he needs to either serve the customers, or get the hell out of business and open a church or bible book store. :roll:

 

[Old 'N Chill]

LOL and yet the owner is being discriminated against from a transgender individual.

Sounds like reverse victimhood, the poor discriminating bakery owner is now the victim....amazing! :lol:

 

[Old 'N Chill]

Nope. He's exercising his right to religious freedom and the scumbag hates him for that.

The topic isn't about your saltiness towards the President.

The scumbag wanted him to create a trans themed cake, but I can see you have a vivid imagination in that arena.

Which is part of the point. He doesn't have to make the cake because 1. He's not legally obligated to make trans cakes and 2. It goes against his religious beliefs.

For someone that loves to accuse others of racism you sure love to repeatedly mention blacks being discriminated against.


The scumbag is not a minority. And he's denying service because the scumbag keeps harassing him and attempting to destroy his business because he refuses to bake LGBT cakes.

I wonder why all conservative "Christians" are so hateful, discriminatory and intolerant toward their fellow man......opposite of what Jesus would do or want. Wonder how many times Jesus referred to another person as a "scumbag". As time goes on, I see more clearly than ever how hateful and hypocritical the religious right is.....they all should be ashamed.

 

[Lisa]

There doesn't need to be a single thing in the bible about cakes. Religion is covered under the 1st. Can I make a kosher deli make me a non kosher sandwich?

You can if they made that same sandwich for someone else. This guy bakes wedding cakes so he must bake wedding cakes for anyone who seeks to buy them?


How is a wedding cake religious or LGBT?

 

[Lutherf]

This religious hypocrite/bigot is just having a temper tantrum because he thinks that just because marriage equality is the law that he can cite his religious beliefs as a way not to be forced to serve customers. There were bigots who refused to serve black and interracial customers after the passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act who made the same claim. Shall we look at what the SCOTUS thought of their arguments when they refused to obey the public accommodation protections that put an end to "Whites-Only" businesses?

Newman v Piggie Park. 9-0 by the SCOTUS against the bigot.

Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should it be allowed to target an individual or a business for their beliefs. If we allow "social justice" activists to target a business because they can't stand that person's beliefs then we are allow EXACTLY the type of discrimination we saw 60 years ago.

Masterpiece Bake Shop isn't leading some kind of anti-gay crusade. The gay crusaders that keep targeting this place, however, ARE leading a crusade against an ideology they disagree with.

 

[Visbek]

Does Masterpiece refuse to sell to all homosexuals or just refuse to serve same gender weddings?

sigh

First, this is not the original case. This is a new case, it is not about sexual orientation, it's about gender. The owner refused service to a potential customer for a birthday cake exclusively and explicitly because she was transgender.

Second, selective discrimination is still discrimination. If an Orthodox Jew runs a deli, then he does not have to carry bacon. However, if he does decide to stock and sell bacon, he cannot refuse to sell bacon to a Jewish person. That's still discrimination, because he is refusing to serve someone on the basis of the customer's religion.

 

[Lisa]

Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should it be allowed to target an individual or a business for their beliefs. If we allow "social justice" activists to target a business because they can't stand that person's beliefs then we are allow EXACTLY the type of discrimination we saw 60 years ago.

Masterpiece Bake Shop isn't leading some kind of anti-gay crusade. The gay crusaders that keep targeting this place, however, ARE leading a crusade against an ideology they disagree with.

Nobody is targeting anyone by requiring them to obey equal rights protections. He doesn't have the right to refuse to obey secular law because of his religious beliefs.

Was Piggie Park BBQ targeted by Anne Newman?

 

[Visbek]

Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should it be allowed to target an individual or a business for their beliefs.

The Colorado law doesn't target anyone.

In addition, the Colorado Civil Rights Commission is sitting this one out. The plaintiff is filing her own lawsuit. And yes, you can sue someone repeatedly, as long as you have standing, and your case is not so frivolous as to get tossed.

If we allow "social justice" activists to target a business because they can't stand that person's beliefs then we are allow EXACTLY the type of discrimination we saw 60 years ago.

Uhhhhhhhh.... No, dude. You have it completely backwards.

There is nothing discriminatory about activists protesting the alleged bigotry of a business. In fact, that was the tactic of many civil rights protests, such as the Greensboro lunch counter sit-ins.

Activists are not running a public accommodation; they aren't denying service to someone because of a protected category. And religion is not a legitimate justification for discrimination in a public accommodation.

It is also the right of activists (of all political ideologies and orientations) to try and persuade people to change their minds. That's called "freedom." No law, no right, no political principle, no ethical maxims proclaim that you personally are the only one who can decide how others exercise their freedoms and civil rights.

 

[jotathought]

Be interesting to see this group elicit the same type of cake from a Muslim bakery.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

There doesn't need to be a single thing in the bible about cakes. Religion is covered under the 1st. Can I make a kosher deli make me a non kosher sandwich?

So you can just say your religion is against paying taxes and then you magically don't have to right? That's not how it works. You can't fabricate things out of thin air to sidestep out laws.

 

[Lisa]

Be interesting to see this group elicit the same type of cake from a Muslim bakery.

Muslims bakeries don't bake traditional wedding cakes for anyone, or didn't you catch that fact? The tiered wedding cake is a western Christian idea that began in the Victorian era. Why are you convinced that liberals and atheists would give Muslims a pass on obeying the public accommodation protections?

Muslim weddings use serve cookies and small finger pastries, which they will happily sell to anyone who asks.

The modern wedding cake as we know it now would originate at the 1882 wedding of Prince Leopold, Duke of Albany; his wedding cake was the first to actually be completely edible. Pillars between cake tiers did not begin to appear until about 20 years later. The pillars were very poorly made from broomsticks covered in icing. The tiers represented prosperity and were a status symbol because only wealthy families could afford to include them in the cake. Prince Leopold's wedding cake was created in separate layers with very dense icing. When the icing would harden the tiers could be stacked, a groundbreaking innovation for wedding cakes at the time. Modern wedding cakes still use this method, with an added form of support with dowels imbedded in the cake to help carry the load especially of larger cakes.

 

[CLAX1911]

Public accommodation laws are pretty clear. If you want to open your business to the public, you have to open it to the public. If you don't, you can hand select your clientele by any metric you choose. You don't get to... have your cake and eat it too.

this isn't about public accommodation they don't have to make whatever anybody requests.

On a moral note, there's literally nothing in the bible about the alleged sin of baking a cake for a homosexual and this guy is no different than a bigot who would hang a "No negroes" sign in front of his shop. Interacting with black people was also once claimed to be a violation of their religion by bigoted Christians. I'm glad we stopped tolerating that bull****.

He can refuse to make a cake for somebody he doesn't have to. It doesn't matter his reasons for not wanting.

I'm a freelance mechanic I refuse to work on jaguars. If you have a jaguar and you're Jewish you come to me. Haven't worked on then I tell you know it's not because I'm anti sematic because I don't work on jaguars.

 

[CLAX1911]

Muslims bakeries don't bake traditional wedding cakes for anyone, or didn't you catch that fact? The tiered wedding cake is a western Christian idea that began in the Victorian era. Why are you convinced that liberals and atheists would give Muslims a pass on obeying the public accommodation protections?

Muslim weddings use serve cookies and small finger pastries, which they will happily sell to anyone who asks.

Public accommodation does not entitle you to someone else's labor. If you're asking for something he does not make he is not obligated to make it for you.

for instance I'm a mechanic I refuse to work on jaguars you do not have the right to demand that I fix your Jaguar.

 

[Lisa]

Public accommodation does not entitle you to someone else's labor. If you're asking for something he does not make he is not obligated to make it for you.

for instance I'm a mechanic I refuse to work on jaguars you do not have the right to demand that I fix your Jaguar.

Yes it does if you are willing to pay them the price that they ask. How is a cake for a wedding different from other cakes for weddings? He is not permitted to deny service to people of other religions because a persons religious belief is one of the protected classes.

Fixing a kind of car is not one of the protected classes. Refusing to work on a car because of the owner's race or religion is another issue.

 

[CLAX1911]

He's in business to make cakes and sell them to paying customers, not to judge them and discriminate against them because of his religious "beliefs", he can believe when he's at home or in church, when he runs a business for profit that serves the public, then he needs to either serve the customers, or get the hell out of business and open a church or bible book store. :roll:

He doesn't serve the public. He serves his clientele. His business is simply open to the public.

If you want something he refuses to sell to you you need to go somewhere else get out of his business.

 

[CLAX1911]

Yes it does

show me the Supreme Court case.

if you are willing to pay them the price that they ask.

okay so he could ask a price of 9 million dollars for the certain type of cake in that would be okay?

How is a cake for a wedding different from other cakes for weddings?

he doesn't want to make one of them.

He is not permitted to deny service to people of other religions because a persons religious belief is one of the protected classes.

if you're not permitted to deny service to people that means you're an indentured servant you are obligated to work meaning you can't quit your job.

Fixing a kind of car is not one of the protected classes.

neither is a type of cake.

Refusing to work on a car because of the owner's race or religion is another issue.

A mechanic is not your property, and you're not entitled to their labor. If you are that's indentured servitude. meaning you your boss is entitled to your labor and you can't quit your job is they don't want you to.

 

[btthegreat]

Please explain how the government forces you into contracts you don't want to enter.

It writes a law that makes you pick between operating a business that requires a business license according each and every statute and regulation, federal state or municipal, including tax laws, consumer laws, health and safety laws, civil rights laws, building and fire codes etc, and not operating a business . If you don't want to engage in public commerce at an established place of business consistent with these laws and regulations, you don't have to. You don't have to engage in that contract. You can hand over that business license and sell your bakery to someone else who will obey these laws and get a job laying brick.

You do not have a 'right to run a business' anyway you like in this country. You don't have a right to run a business at all.

 

[CLAX1911]

It writes a law that makes you pick between operating a business that requires a business license according each and every statute and regulation, federal state or municipal, including tax laws, consumer laws, health and safety laws, civil rights laws, building and fire codes etc, and not operating a business .

none of which requires you to provide service to anyone who asks for it.

If you don't want to engage in public commerce at an established place of business consistent with these laws and regulations, you don't have to. You don't have to engage in that contract. You can hand over that business license and sell your bakery to someone else who will obey these laws and get a job laying brick.

There is no law entitling someone to your labor. Further a bakery doesn't do public commerce, they would normally do commerce with their clientele, not the public. They are simply open to the public.

You do not have a 'right to run a business' anyway you like in this country. You don't have a right to run a business at all.

Technically yes you do. You have to go about it a different way if you wish to be open to the public.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

this isn't about public accommodation they don't have to make whatever anybody requests.

He can refuse to make a cake for somebody he doesn't have to. It doesn't matter his reasons for not wanting.

I'm a freelance mechanic I refuse to work on jaguars. If you have a jaguar and you're Jewish you come to me. Haven't worked on then I tell you know it's not because I'm anti sematic because I don't work on jaguars.

The baker bakes cakes and he was asked to bake something within his normal offering. He does not get to discriminate against his clientele unless he wants to become a private business.

Look at you Uncle Tomming it up though.

 

[AlphaOmega]

You can if they made that same sandwich for someone else. This guy bakes wedding cakes so he must bake wedding cakes for anyone who seeks to buy them?


How is a wedding cake religious or LGBT?

Kosher delis can be forced to make me a non kosher sandwich?

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Kosher delis can be forced to make me a non kosher sandwich?

Nope. You're being purposely dishonest. Public accommodation laws do not say you have to change your offering to whatever someone wants, and you know that. What the kosher deli can't do is refuse to sell their kosher sandwiches to black people.