Masterpiece Cakeshop owner in court again for denying LGBTQ customer

[marke]

What you suggest is illegal. What the baker's clients suggested was completely legal. Only "illegals don't care about the law". Why blame the less fortunate, and claim you are not really like that, afterward?

Skin-heat white racist thug to Christian cake maker: "You cannot refuse to make me a KKK cake to celebrate the death of Martin Luther King on religious grounds, the Constitution says you have to leave your religion at home when you come to work."

 

[Lisa]

Skin-heat white racist thug to Christian cake maker: "You cannot refuse to make me a KKK cake to celebrate the death of Martin Luther King on religious grounds, the Constitution says you have to leave your religion at home when you come to work."

The Klan is a known hate group. They are also conservative protestant Christians, just like Maurice Bessinger and Jack Phillips. Both people are members of the Baptist church.

Bessinger openly supported the Klan.

In case we forget, Bessigner protested desegregation by putting a sign up in his Piggie Park restaurant that read: The law makes us serve niggers, but any money we get from them goes to the Ku Klux Klan.

The SBC and the Klan have long ties and the founder of the Klan was a Baptist deacon.

The Klan also hates LGBT people.

The Klan became a visible and influential source of power in Miami during the 1920s when its members employed violence and fear—including lynchings, bombings and parades—to silence and purge challenges to white supremacy and urban authority. This proved especially true both during and immediately after Prohibition in Miami, where articulations of so-called immorality took shape through a prism of licit and illicit vice, changing gender and sexual norms, immigration from the Caribbean and elsewhere, and a laissez-faire tourism industry that promoted numerous forms of transgression. In this way, the Klan claimed its actions at La Paloma and elsewhere represented its commitment to saving white homes, families, women and traditions.

 

[Lisa]

No one is required to put their religion aside to serve the public or make a profit.

The baker does not lose his first amendment protections just because he sells cakes to the public.

How many times does this need to be explained to you before you understand it? I'm tired of typing this over and over and it still not sinking into either you or Marke.

I dare you to name even one time that a business that is open to and serves the public has been permitted by the government to ignore the public accommodation protections because of the owners claimed religious views and to discriminate against any customer based on any of the protected classes? Those classes are race, creed, color, gender, age, disability, and now in Colorado and other states or cities, sexual orientation, or gender identity. Maurice Bessinger tired to do that and was crushed by the SCOTUS in a 9-0 decision in Newman v. Piggie Park.

Our constitutionally protected religious rights are limited to the right to believe in god and the right to worship w so when was Jack Phillips ever fined or arrested by the government for believing in his god or arrested for worshipping?

What are the religious beliefs of the customer in question who you are claiming tried to prohibit him from exercising his protected religious rights?

 

[Aberration]

The point is no reasonable person should be expected to take a person seriously about morals on a for-Profit basis in Public Accommodation.

That’s stupid.

This is our supreme law of the land regardless of your personal Religious beliefs in Public Accommodation:

The 1st amendment, the government making no law prohibiting the free exercise of religion, is the law of the land. There is no public accommodation exemption enumerated in the Amendment.

The client is not purchasing your moral conscience merely your artistic labor; for the sake Art not morals in public accommodation.

When they request custom work, they are. You can’t force someone to think the way you want them to.

 

[marke]

The Klan is a known hate group. They are also conservative protestant Christians, just like Maurice Bessinger and Jack Phillips. Both people are members of the Baptist church.
Bessinger openly supported the Klan.

The SBC and the Klan have long ties and the founder of the Klan was a Baptist deacon.

The Klan also hates LGBT people.

I understand. You think Christians are Klansmen or Klansmen are Christians, whichever or whatever. That is typical of the type of wild stretches of the imagination so common among atheistic racist fascist democrats.

Putting that aside, do you think a Christian who hates Klan rallies celebrating the assassination of Martin Liuther King has the right to refuse to make a cake for the KKK celebration?

 

[marke]

How many times does this need to be explained to you before you understand it? I'm tired of typing this over and over and it still not sinking into either you or Marke.

I dare you to name even one time that a business that is open to and serves the public has been permitted by the government to ignore the public accommodation protections because of the owners claimed religious views and to discriminate against any customer based on any of the protected classes? Those classes are race, creed, color, gender, age, disability, and now in Colorado and other states or cities, sexual orientation, or gender identity. Maurice Bessinger tired to do that and was crushed by the SCOTUS in a 9-0 decision in Newman v. Piggie Park.

You don't have to get into the sexually perverted gutter to vainly try to find ways to get around the 1st Amerndment protections for religious freedom of all Americans, including those in business.

Our constitutionally protected religious rights are limited to the right to believe in god and the right to worship w so when was Jack Phillips ever fined or arrested by the government for believing in his god or arrested for worshipping?
What are the religious beliefs of the customer in question who you are claiming tried to prohibit him from exercising his protected religious rights?

There are no corollaries in the 1st Amendment claiming, as homosexuals would like to, that 1st Amendment protections guarantee a person's right to believe and exercise his beliefs as has been commonly done for 200 years in America is limited to only those beliefs that do not offend atheists and perverts or except when in business.

 

[danielpalos]

Skin-heat white racist thug to Christian cake maker: "You cannot refuse to make me a KKK cake to celebrate the death of Martin Luther King on religious grounds, the Constitution says you have to leave your religion at home when you come to work."

lol. You are the one alleging true social morals on a for-profit basis in public accommodation. Nothing illegal is being asked of that for-Profit baker.

 

[danielpalos]

That’s stupid.


The 1st amendment, the government making no law prohibiting the free exercise of religion, is the law of the land. There is no public accommodation exemption enumerated in the Amendment.

When they request custom work, they are. You can’t force someone to think the way you want them to.

lol. You are simply wrong even though you are on the right.

 

[Old 'N Chill]

What you suggest is illegal. What the baker's clients suggested was completely legal. Only "illegals don't care about the law". Why blame the less fortunate, and claim you are not really like that, afterward?

Exactly, Trumpies like marke will make up the most ignorant excuses to validate discrimination against gays, women and people of color.....did I mention non-Christians?

 

[danielpalos]

Exactly, Trumpies like marke will make up the most ignorant excuses to validate discrimination against gays, women and people of color.....did I mention non-Christians?

It takes morals to bear true witness.

 

[Marrybore]

Homosexuality is a perverse lifestyle which promotes unhealthy views and values, just like KKK racism. Christians are under no obligation to make a cake celebrating KKK racist views than they are under obligation to make a cake supporting rape or other sexual perversion and fornication.

Now this is just getting ridiculous. It's clear that you are prejudiced against gay people, because apparently God thinks they're rapists who are as bad as Nazis. Please give a logical reason for why you think homosexuality promotes "unhealthy views and values" just like the KKK (I mean, what, the KKK, really??), and this time DO NOT bring religion into it. If everything God says is right, then surely you should be able to come up with a few reasons that actually make sense?

If a customer comes in and wants a cake made in commemoration of the assassination of MLK, the baker does not have to make such a cake if he does not share support for the theme. This is the USA, not the USSA of Fascist Democrat Socialism.

Now, look, I see what you're saying. (No need to bring hyperbolic comparisons to Fascism into it though). The baker believes homosexuality is morally wrong, and so obviously it must seem logical to him, and to you, that he should have a right to refuse to bake the cake - I'd probably think the same thing if I was a baker and someone wanted me to make a cake celebrating the Holocaust or the murder of someone I admired (e.g. MLK). BUT, you must understand that what seems so annoying to everyone else, is that we all know (or at least we think) you are completely wrong and your beliefs in the immorality of homosexuality are unfounded. To us, it seems no different from racism and bigotry.
On the actual issue of legality and constitutionality...
I'd say that a hypothetical system could be devised: the baker should be able to object to making a cake, if a randomly selected jury agree with him that the cake is associated with immoral values and vices. That way, he'd be able to object if the cake really was morally questionable, but if he was just prejudiced, then, in the majority of cases, he'd have to make it.

 

[it's just me]

If the free market was enough to stop discrimination, we wouldn't have needed public acommodation laws in the first place.

Then you won't mind if a customer orders a "God hates fags" cake or a "Hitler had the right idea" cake....

 

[marke]

lol. You are the one alleging true social morals on a for-profit basis in public accommodation. Nothing illegal is being asked of that for-Profit baker.

The baker is not forcing the homosexuals to accept Christianity, the homosexuals are violating the baker's civil and Constitutional rights by threatening to ruin him if he does not give up his religious convictions. That is wrong. The intolerant homosexuals are to be blamed and should apologize to the Christian baker for their hatred and discrimination against him for his religion.

 

[marke]

Exactly, Trumpies like marke will make up the most ignorant excuses to validate discrimination against gays, women and people of color.....did I mention non-Christians?

It does not matter to Christians like me what Donald Trump may think about sodomy. What matters to Christians like me is what God thinks about sodomy and sodomites.

 

[marke]

Now this is just getting ridiculous. It's clear that you are prejudiced against gay people, because apparently God thinks they're rapists who are as bad as Nazis. Please give a logical reason for why you think homosexuality promotes "unhealthy views and values" just like the KKK (I mean, what, the KKK, really??), and this time DO NOT bring religion into it. If everything God says is right, then surely you should be able to come up with a few reasons that actually make sense?

I'm not connecting homosexuality to racist hatred for blacks. I'm talking about homosexual hatred for Christians and their intolerance for God.

Now, look, I see what you're saying. (No need to bring hyperbolic comparisons to Fascism into it though). The baker believes homosexuality is morally wrong, and so obviously it must seem logical to him, and to you, that he should have a right to refuse to bake the cake - I'd probably think the same thing if I was a baker and someone wanted me to make a cake celebrating the Holocaust or the murder of someone I admired (e.g. MLK). BUT, you must understand that what seems so annoying to everyone else, is that we all know (or at least we think) you are completely wrong and your beliefs in the immorality of homosexuality are unfounded. To us, it seems no different from racism and bigotry.
On the actual issue of legality and constitutionality...
I'd say that a hypothetical system could be devised: the baker should be able to object to making a cake, if a randomly selected jury agree with him that the cake is associated with immoral values and vices. That way, he'd be able to object if the cake really was morally questionable, but if he was just prejudiced, then, in the majority of cases, he'd have to make it.

It does not matter how many sexually-obsessed barbarians amass themselves together to agree that God is wrong and sodomy should be promoted, preserved, protected, promulgated in society by fascist law, Christians like me must obey God rather than men.

 

[danielpalos]

The baker is not forcing the homosexuals to accept Christianity, the homosexuals are violating the baker's civil and Constitutional rights by threatening to ruin him if he does not give up his religious convictions. That is wrong. The intolerant homosexuals are to be blamed and should apologize to the Christian baker for their hatred and discrimination against him for his religion.

lol. Right wingers want us to believe a for-profit baker is worried about the greater glory of our immortal souls in public accommodation, on a for Profit basis? Maximizing profits is what that for-profit baker should be doing. If that baker was actually worried about the greater glory of our immortal souls, that baker would be operating on a not-for-the-profit-of-Lucre-over-morals basis.

Augustinian, Benedictine, and Carmelite bread should be more moral.

 

[marke]

lol. Right wingers want us to believe a for-profit baker is worried about the greater glory of our immortal souls in public accommodation, on a for Profit basis? Maximizing profits is what that for-profit baker should be doing. If that baker was actually worried about the greater glory of our immortal souls, that baker would be operating on a not-for-the-profit-of-Lucre-over-morals basis.

Augustinian, Benedictine, and Carmelite bread should be more moral.

What does God's opposition to sodomy have to do with making profits in business? I think the baker's refusal to grant the sodomite's wish is because the sodomites did not tone down their insistence on his open approval of homosexual perversion.

 

[danielpalos]

What does God's opposition to sodomy have to do with making profits in business? I think the baker's refusal to grant the sodomite's wish is because the sodomites did not tone down their insistence on his open approval of homosexual perversion.

It is about profit not morals in public accommodation. The customer has First Amendment protection from "Baker's Morals" even though baker's dozen is a baker's concept.

That Capitalist has a obligation to maximize profit at the expense of morals under Capitalism on a for-profit basis. It is not illegal.

 

[Lisa]

Then you won't mind if a customer orders a "God hates fags" cake or a "Hitler had the right idea" cake....

Those seem like very conservative ideas. I'm sure that the bigot baker would make a God Hates Fags cake, or is that too obvious?

 

[Lisa]

What does God's opposition to sodomy have to do with making profits in business? I think the baker's refusal to grant the sodomite's wish is because the sodomites did not tone down their insistence on his open approval of homosexual perversion.

Nobody is asking the baker to agree with the speech or actions of his customers. This is your biggest hurdle.

 

[Lisa]

The baker is not forcing the homosexuals to accept Christianity, the homosexuals are violating the baker's civil and Constitutional rights by threatening to ruin him if he does not give up his religious convictions. That is wrong. The intolerant homosexuals are to be blamed and should apologize to the Christian baker for their hatred and discrimination against him for his religion.

Nobody is even asking him to change his religious views. The law does not care of he agrees with the customer because that agreement is irrelevant. The law didn't require Maurice Bessinger to agree with equal rights for black people when he served this in his BBQ joint. You're adding something that isn't part of the service equation. He has the right to hate the customer and everything that he stands for, but he can't refuse equal service.

 

[it's just me]

Those seem like very conservative ideas. I'm sure that the bigot baker would make a God Hates Fags cake, or is that too obvious?

Well, the irony was lost on you, I see.

 

[danielpalos]

Wall Street doesn't have a problem with it why does mainstreet?

 

[Lisa]

Well, the irony was lost on you, I see.

There was no irony there or maybe you don't understand what the definition of irony is.

This is also a civil rights violation if he will not bake those cakes because of the history of Halloween, which is a pagan holiday.

Phillips also chooses not to create cakes depicting witches or ghosts for Halloween, or to design cakes with sexually suggestive images.

He is just another religious bigot, and likely a member of the SBC, because he says that he is a Baptist but his conscience is too guilty to admit that he is a Southern Baptist, which supported the Klan until the 1980s. The Klan also hates Jews, gays, and black/interracial people, so they would not have had a problem with Hitler's concentration camps because they hated the very same demographic.

He will soon learn that his religious bigotry does not supersede the public accommodation protections or we would toss the civi;l rights act and most of the Bill of Rights out the window if the person who is discriminating gets to decide what rights other enjoy because of their own religious beliefs. Maurice Bessinger learned that lesson and so will Jack Phillips.

 

[aociswundumho]

He will soon learn that his religious bigotry does not supersede the public accommodation protections or we would toss the civi;l rights act and most of the Bill of Rights out the window if the person who is discriminating gets to decide what rights other enjoy because of their own religious beliefs. Maurice Bessinger learned that lesson and so will Jack Phillips.

I'm curious, do you consider it immoral if a white man discriminates against black women in the dating/sex/marriage market? Dating and sex is based on reciprocity, more so than exchanging a few dollars for a cake. It's also a much more important thing in life than buying something at a store.