Marian Doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church

[TypicalRussian]

Why call her Mother of God? Why not call her Mother of Jesus?






These:




Isaiah 42
8
“I am the Lord; that is my name!
I will not yield my glory to another
or my praise to idols.




Matthew 12

Jesus’ Mother and Brothers

46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”

48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?”

49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers.

50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”




and many more. But definitely, no Marian doctrines in the Bible.







You're probably a Catholic.....or Anglican?

Because Jesus Is God...duh!

no im orthodox

 

[nota bene]

Yet, in no way does the Bible support that assumption...

Not everyone is sola Scriptura.

 

[Daisy]

Not everyone is sola Scriptura.

Yes, I realize that...

“It is written: ‘Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every word that comes from Jehovah’s mouth.’” Matthew 4:4

 

[it's just me]

Not everyone is sola Scriptura.

Sola scriptura is not supported by the Bible...

 

[nota bene]

Sola scriptura is not supported by the Bible...

Uh-oh. You'd better 'splain yourself, Lucy.

N.B. Cultural reference to "I love Lucy" and "Ricky's" frequent demand.

 

[it's just me]

Uh-oh. You'd better 'splain yourself, Lucy.

N.B. Cultural reference to "I love Lucy" and "Ricky's" frequent demand.

Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold to the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word or our epistle." 2Thess 2:15.

"While the scriptures' meaning is mediated through many kinds of subordinate authority, such as the ordinary teaching offices of a denominated church, the ecumenical creeds, the councils of the catholic church, and so on - sola scriptura, on the other hand, rejects any original infallible authority other than the Bible. In this view, all subordinate authority is derived from the authority of the scriptures and is therefore subject to reform when compared to the teaching of the Bible. Church councils, preachers, Bible commentators, private revelation, or even a message allegedly from an angel or an apostle are not an original authority alongside the Bible in the sola scriptura approach. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_scriptura

The bigger issue is that Sola Scriptura adherents always believe what THEY SAY the scriptures mean is the Word of God, even if it's wrong. To put it another way they think that what your Church teaches are merely "teachings of men" but their explanation is direct from God.

Aside from that, Sola Scriptura is supposed to be interpreted in and by the Church, according to the reformers, not by untutored laymen.

And I hope that makes sense, it's late here.

https://www.amazon.com/Shape-Sola-Scriptura-Keith-Mathison/dp/1885767749

 

[Rumpel]

Not everyone is sola Scriptura.

If you take SOLA SCRIPTURA literally, then you may throw out 99,99 percent of Christianity.
If one condemns every detail that is not mentioned in the Bible, then there is no end of condemning.

 

[tosca1]

Christ started the Catholic Church in Matthew 16:18, also promised the gift of the Holy Spirit to guide it in truth always.

John 14: 16-17, 26: "I will ask the Father and he will give you another Paraclete—to be with you always; the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot accept, since it neither sees him nor recognizes him because he remains with you and will be within you . . . . the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send will remind you of all that I have told you"

The Pope serves as Paraclete (starting with Peter), the advocate of the Holy Spirit, and WHEN doing so is in the Holy Spirit, infallible, so as not to succumb to Satan.

There's a lot more to it, but that's the Catholic short of it.

We'll talk about papal infallibility later. That is the biggest stumbling block - the cause of it all, if I may say so.



Yes. There's a whole lot more to John 14. Funny you should bring that up.

I was just in the shower talking to God about this thread (yes, I tend to talk to God in the shower - among other places), asking for guidance because I know this is quite hurtful to you all.
I've had a prior experience when my prayer in the shower was answered a couple of hours later - the very question I asked of God being repeated back to me, and answered! Right on-stage (at a workshop), by a guy who sounded like John Goodman - the very first words he said on that stage was my exact question to God! It was a Billy Graham workshop, btw.

I'm not trying to convince you to believe me - it won't matter whether you believe me or not.
I relate that to you, for the simple reason that in dealing with this very difficult and contentious subject - I'm saying where
my confidence is coming from.


I don't blame some of you folks for being angry. For lashing out. I asked God to stop me if what I do is a mistake, if I misunderstand, if I'm going too far. The next thing that popped to mind were QUESTIONS! I get the idea that I have to ask you folks questions!
All sorts of questions - starting with John 14!



Note: I've got to continue in the next post.

 

[tosca1]

Christ started the Catholic Church in Matthew 16:18, also promised the gift of the Holy Spirit to guide it in truth always.

John 14: 16-17, 26: "I will ask the Father and he will give you another Paraclete—to be with you always; the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot accept, since it neither sees him nor recognizes him because he remains with you and will be within you . . . . the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send will remind you of all that I have told you"

The Pope serves as Paraclete (starting with Peter), the advocate of the Holy Spirit, and WHEN doing so is in the Holy Spirit, infallible, so as not to succumb to Satan.

There's a lot more to it, but that's the Catholic short of it.

continuation of post #83...........



John 14 is a very, very important subject - it seems to be like a "last will and testamant" of a dying loved one. It serves to comfort those who are going to be left behind, the ones who will be grieving.......it provides instruction/directions how to go about after the loved one is gone.........
it gives reassurance.



I think we're both referring to this particular part of John 14.
No matter how you cut and dice it - there is nothing written in there to support your claim - UNLESS, YOU ADD TO IT!

Let's read it:


John 14

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit

15 “If you love me, keep my commands.
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—
17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.
20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.
24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

25 “All this I have spoken while still with you.
26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
29 I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe.
30 I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me, 31 but he comes so that the world may learn that I love the Father and do exactly what my Father has commanded me.

“Come now; let us leave.



Lol. I must say the question that I have from your post is a surprise, even to me! :lol: It wasn't among the few questions in the shower!
Nowhere does it mentions it's only about Peter.
The name Peter never even came up - but a guy named Judas did. He was talking to every disciples that were there. here, read this:



22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.
24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

25 “All this I have spoken while still with you.
26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.





See that big red statement?
The promise goes to people.................... BEYOND THE WALLS OF THAT ROOM!
It goes BEYOND THAT TIME.

WE (Father, Son and Holy Spirit - all in ONE) - will come and make their home with them.


It is a promise to ANYONE WHO LOVES HIM, AND OBEYS HIS TEACHINGS!
See how love and obedience goes hand-in-hand again?




So, here's the question from your post ..........reading John 14, what on earth are you on about with Peter and the Pope? :lol:

 

[tosca1]

Just so you know.....



I have not debated with Catholics for a long time.
If I'm not mistaken....the last serious discussion was with Phatonnez.

There was no inclination on my part to start any Catholic-related thread - never thought about it, however.......the invitations that
popped were too hard to resist.


It started with this topic that was posted recently. It's a challenge.
Like a gauntlet thrown to the faces of those who don't believe in the RCC:

Non Catholics can never give a halfway plausible answer to the Q


Even then, the idea of a specific topic on Marian Doctrines was hardly there.........until the next invitation came along:
the skirmishes about Mary and the challenge that I have not given anything to support my argument - to which I replied somewhere that,
the Marian issue is not something light, that it needs a thread of its own.
That statement - my statement - that's when the seed really took root for this topic! Like a scab that itches -

Voila!


Thanks to those invitations - here we are today. :shrug:

 

[tosca1]

Catholics combine the 1st and 2nd commandments for more context and do not take Exodus 20:4 as standalone scripture in it's entirety as though no other context.

The proper context is as is.
As expressed and written in the Old Testament, as expressed and written in the New Testament!




First Commandment: You shall have no other gods before Me
Matthew 4:10; 6:24; 22:37-38
Luke 4:8
Revelation 14:7



Second Commandment: Thou shalt not worship Idols
Acts 15:20; 17:16; 29
1 Corinthians 5:10-11; 6:9; 10:7, 14, 19; 12:2
2 Corinthians 6:16
Galatians 5:20
Ephesians 5:5
Colossians 3:5
1 Thessalonians 1:9
1 Peter 4:3
1 John 5:21
Revelation 2:14; 9:20; 21:8; 22:15.

Catholics look at graven images in proper context as meaning those made to be worshipped in place of or before God. In those times, many religions worshipped many graven images of animals, trees, etc.

The Virgin Mary, for instance, is not worshipped as if equal to, in place of, instead of, or before God.

You can play with semantics all you want.....

.......but if it walks like a duck.....it talks like a duck.......and it looks like a duck.........it is a duck!

Lol. The things the RCC does to Mary - that is obvious to an objective observer!




Furthermore, the issue is not with me or people like me who see it as idol-worship.
Your issue is with GOD!

God cannot be fooled.

 

[tosca1]

Some titles given to Mary:

Virgin Hodegetria
A Hodegetria[a], or Virgin Hodegetria, is an iconographic depiction of the Theotokos (Virgin Mary) holding the Child Jesus at her side while pointing to him as the source of salvation for humankind. The Virgin's head usually inclines towards the child, who raises his hand in a blessing gesture.
In the Western Church this type of icon is sometimes called Our Lady of the Way.
The most venerated icon of the Hodegetria type, regarded as the original, was displayed in the Monastery of the Panaghia Hodegetria in Constantinople, which was built specially to contain it

Hodegetria - Wikipedia


Btw, an icon is defined as an idol. Icon | Definition of Icon by Merriam-Webster
Here are the definitions for idol. Idol | Definition of Idol by Merriam-Webster

Virgin of Mercy

Usually the image, whether in sculpture or painting, stands by itself. Nevertheless, in the most famous example, the Madonna della Misericordia altarpiece (1445–1462) in Sansepolcro by Piero della Francesca, the subject is the central panel of a large altarpiece, with a smaller Crucifixion above it, and many other panels.

Virgin of Mercy - Wikipedia

Maestà
the Italian word for "majesty", designates an iconic formula of the enthroned Madonna with the child Jesus, whether or not accompanied with angels and saints. The Maestà is an extension of the "Seat of Wisdom" theme of the seated "Mary Theotokos", "Mary Mother of God", which is a counterpart to the earlier icon of Christ in Majesty, the enthroned Christ that is familiar in Byzantine Mosaics.
Paintings depicting the Maestà came into the mainstream artistic repertory, especially in Rome, in the late twelfth and early thirteenth centuries,[4] with an increased emphasis on the veneration of Mary.

Maesta - Wikipedia

Our Lady of Sorrows
Our Lady of Sorrows (Latin: Beata Maria Virgo Perdolens), Our Lady of Dolours, the Sorrowful Mother or Mother of Sorrows (Latin: Mater Dolorosa), and Our Lady of Piety, Our Lady of the Seven Sorrows or Our Lady of the Seven Dolours are names by which the Virgin Mary is referred to in relation to sorrows in her life.
As Mater Dolorosa, it is also a key subject for Marian art in the Catholic Church.
The Seven Sorrows of Mary are a popular Roman Catholic devotion. In common religious Catholic imagery, the Virgin Mary is portrayed in a sorrowful and lacrimating affect, with one or seven long knives or daggers piercing her heart, often bleeding.
Devotional prayers that consist of meditation began to elaborate on her Seven Sorrows based on the prophecy of Simeon.
Common examples of piety under this title are Servite rosary, or the Chaplet of the Seven Sorrows of Our Lady and the Seven Joys of Mary and more recently, "Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary".

Earlier, in 1232, seven youths in Tuscany founded the Servite Order (also known as the "Servite Friars", or the "Order of the Servants of Mary"). Five years later, they took up the sorrows of Mary, standing under the Cross, as the principal devotion of their order.[2]

Over the centuries several devotions, and even orders, arose around meditation on Mary's Sorrows in particular.
The Servites developed the three most common devotions to Our Lady's Sorrows, namely the Rosary of the Seven Sorrows, the Black Scapular of the Seven Dolours of Mary and the Novena to Our Sorrowful Mother. The Black Scapular is a symbol of the Confraternity of Our Lady of Sorrows, which is associated with the Servite Order.[3]
Most devotional scapulars have requirements regarding ornamentation or design. The devotion of the Black Scapular requires only that it be made of black woollen cloth.[4]
From the National Shrine of Saint Peregrine spread the Sorrowful Mother Novena, the core of which is the Via Matris.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Sorrows




Lol. This is like youtube. You click one - and it brings you to others similar to it! :mrgreen:

 

[tosca1]

...continuation.....

Via Matris
The Via Matris - Way of the Mother - depicts the Seven Sorrows of Mary, and is a counterpoint to the Via Crucis. It was not actually the creation of the Servite (Servants of Mary) Order, but was developed into its current form by them and has been practiced by them for centuries.


Wherefore repent, and turn to her, humbly saying:

Sweetest Mother, once and once only Herod obliged you to flee with your Jesus, to escape the slaughter which he had commanded; but I, how often have I forced my Redeemer, and you with him, to flee from my heart, when I have admitted into it accursed sin, hateful to you and to my loving Lord. With tears and contrition I humbly beg for pardon. Mercy, dear Lady, mercy ! And I promise you that, for the future, with the help of God, I will ever maintain my Savior and you in complete possession of my soul. Amen.

Via Matris




Questions:


Why is she always right there along with God?

In some cases, it is more about pleasing her than God.





I don't think Mother of Perpetual Help (the novena that I used to do) is even included in the list.

Devotional titles

In the Loreto Litanies Mary's prayers are invoked under more than fifty separate titles, such as "Mother Most Pure", "Virgin Most Prudent", and "Cause of Our Joy"




Ark of the Covenant
Comfort of the Afflicted
Gate of Heaven
Health of the Sick
Help of the Afflicted
Holy Mary
Holy Virgin of Virgins
Immaculate Heart of Mary
María, Reina de las Américas
Morning Star
Mother of Christ
Mother of Mercy
Mother of Sorrows
Madonna Della Strada
Mediatrix of All Graces
Mother of the Church
Mystical Rose
Our Lady of the Annunciation
Our Lady of Bethlehem
Our Lady of Charity
Our Lady of Chartres
Our Lady of Combermere
Our Lady of Compassion
Our Lady of Grace
Our Lady of Lebanon
Our Lady of Light
Our Lady of Loreto
Our Lady of the North
Our Lady of Providence
Our Lady of Ransom
Our Lady of Solitude
Our Lady, Star of the Sea
Our Lady of Stockholm
Queen of All Saints
Queen of the Americas
Queen of the Angels
Queen of Apostles
Queen of Confessors
Queen of Families
Queen of Martyrs
Queen of Patriarchs
Queen of Prophets
Queen of Virgins
Queen of the World (in Latin Regina mundi)
Refuge of Sinners
Salus Populi Romani (Salvation of the People of Rome)
Spouse of the Holy Spirit
Tower of David
Untier of Knots (also, Undoer of Knots)

Titles of Mary - Wikipedia

Titles associated with devotional images

Titles associated with apparitions

Titles of Mary - Wikipedia




Lol. Enough of that. Or I'll never get out of it - it seems endless! You get the pic!



Question:


Curiously.........

How many devotionals are devoted to God ALONE - without her?

 

[tosca1]

What about Mary did I say that cannot be construed from the Bible? What in the Bible tells you that Mary, though without sin, died?

Genesis 5:24 "Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away." Saying "he was no more" tells me he died, so could not me assumed. But, "because" tells me the reason he was no more wasn't because of death, but because God "took him away". Not sure, but could be.

Second Kings 2:11 "Suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind." Could be assumption, but like I said, as best I can tell, no one get's through life w/o sin. Except Mary and Jesus.

It is what isn't mentioned at all in Bible - especially if it is something so miraculous - that is the issue.

In other words, you're filling the blanks!
You are making assumptions! You are adding! Your assumption is not even based on logic!




Here's the logic:


If Elijah and Enoch were mentioned -



Hebrews 11:5
By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: "He could not be found, because God had taken him away.
" For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.


2 Kings 2
Elijah Taken Up to Heaven



why not the mother of Jesus Christ - especially, if possessing all the qualities that the RCC had attributed to her?



Look how long the story is on Elijah!





Question:


Mary was never even mentioned again after Acts 1. What does that say to you?

 

[tosca1]

Because Jesus Is God...duh!

EXACTLY!

Thank you.



Mary's role as mother, ended with the human Jesus.


Thus, Jesus - speaking as GOD/SAVIOUR - places no distinction about a relationship with her. She is not the mother of GOD!




IN FACT - with this passage.................



Matthew 12

Jesus’ Mother and Brothers


46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him.

47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”



48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?”

49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers.


50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”




.................God gives the clarification that there is no special role as mother when it comes to Him (as GOD/SAVIOUR)!

It seems God felt it only right to set the record straight at that time when someone told Him (before the crowd) that
His mother Mary and brothers were outside waiting to speak to Him. Maybe....

He didn't want the people to get the wrong idea.

 

[it's just me]

EXACTLY!
Thank you.



Mary's role as mother, ends with the human Jesus.


Thus, Jesus - speaking as GOD/SAVIOUR - places no distinction about a relationship with her. She is not the mother of GOD!

IN FACT - God gives the clarification that there is no distinction!

Well, thank you, Pope Tosca. What gives you any more authority than anybody else? Seriously.

 

[tosca1]

Well, thank you, Pope Tosca. What gives you any more authority than anybody else? Seriously.

Who gives me the authority? Surely, not the Pope.



I'm quoting the Scriptures.

The Scriptures - the Word of God - is, the Authority.

 

[it's just me]

Who gives me the authority? Surely, not the Pope.



I'm quoting the Scriptures.

The Scriptures - the Word of God - is, the Authority.

No, your "authority" is not from God, it is what YOU SAY the scriptures say.

 

[tosca1]

No, your "authority" is not from God, it is what YOU SAY the scriptures say.

:roll:

Without anything to support that, it doesn't amount to anything. It means nothing.
In fact, it is juvenile to blurt out opinions in a serious discussion without any further explanations - and, anything credible to back it up.


Here's the challenge to you:

Why don't you put money where your big mouth is.

Pick an argument I gave (along with Scriptures I quoted).....and explain how it isn't from the Scriptures.


I dare you.



If you can't...........I'll just have to blow you off again.
It'll be the final nail to confirm what I now suspect you are: full of hot air! :mrgreen:
C'mon. Prove me wrong on that.

 

[nota bene]

There was no inclination on my part to start any Catholic-related thread - never thought about it, however.......the invitations that popped were too hard to resist.

"Resist" is an interesting word choice.

Even then, the idea of a specific topic on Marian Doctrines was hardly there.........until the next invitation came along:
the skirmishes about Mary and the challenge that I have not given anything to support my argument - to which I replied somewhere that,
the Marian issue is not something light, that it needs a thread of its own.
That statement - my statement - that's when the seed really took root for this topic! Like a scab that itches -

Voila!

Thanks to those invitations - here we are today. :shrug:

"Like a scab that itches," eh? And you shrug after the congratulatory "Voila!"?

How about this: Why don't we all as believes try to find common ground. For example, what I find most important about both Mary and Joseph is that they said "Yes" to God.

 

[tosca1]

"Resist" is an interesting word choice.

What's so interesting about it? I can't read minds. Please explain.

"Like a scab that itches," eh? And you shrug after the congratulatory "Voila!"?

....and?

How about this: Why don't we all as believes try to find common ground. For example, what I find most important about both Mary and Joseph is that they said "Yes" to God.

How about this instead:

We don't dictate what we should, and shouldn't argue about - if it's done in accordance to the rules of the forum site?



If we don't like the argument in a FORUM (designated as the section for skepticism about belief) -

and we don't have anything to add, or don't want to give anything to add to the discussion -

how about we respect the right of the posters to express themselves, and just simply excuse ourselves from the discussion?




If that too, prove to be too unbearable for us - we can just leave the room and close the door behind us?



If that becomes the common ground for all - then, there wouldn't be discord (but a robust and sometimes heated discussion),
and unnecessary topic-derailment, either!




Anyway,


Why are you guys................................. so afraid of discussions of differences? Of heated discussions?
Look where we are! In a discussion room.
It's not like as if we walk up and down the streets challenging anyone who believes differently from us! This is a forum!
It's okay to feel angry. As long as it doesn't get personal - as long as you aren't motivated by hate - there's nothing wrong with that!

Jesus had participated in quite a few of them - against the Pharisees and Saduccees!

 

[tosca1]

Originally Posted by tosca1 View Post
There was no inclination on my part to start any Catholic-related thread - never thought about it, however.......the invitations that popped were too hard to resist.

nota bene

"Resist" is an interesting word choice.

Seriously, I want to know what you think about that. Why you say that?

Because.....for me......it's like the invitations had pulled me in to start this thread.

"Like a scab that itches," eh?

Yes. Figuratively-speaking. Something that's hard to resist - it can't be ignored.

Of course, I don't mean you guys look anything like scabs, or crusty wounds. :mrgreen:

And you shrug after the congratulatory "Voila!"?

It's the.........IRONY.

Let me ask you:
What topic/skirmishes got me inspired to finally start this thread about the RCC?


Non Catholics can never give a halfway plausible answer to the Q


Btw, did you ever rebuke that author for starting such thread (which promote "discord" with non-Catholics)? Just asking.



Anyway, that's why I said: voila. Here we are today.

Tadaaaaaaaaaa.



Don't you see the irony?

How ironic that the topic smugly challenging non-Catholics, would be the catapult to produce this thread -

which btw, none of the Mary apologists here had - and can never - JUSTIFY!

Nobody has directly refuted any arguments given here.
That, is, something I can be smug about! :lol:

 

[it's just me]

:roll:

Without anything to support that, it doesn't amount to anything. It means nothing.
In fact, it is juvenile to blurt out opinions in a serious discussion without any further explanations - and, anything credible to back it up.


Here's the challenge to you:

Why don't you put money where your big mouth is.

Pick an argument I gave (along with Scriptures I quoted).....and explain how it isn't from the Scriptures.


I dare you.



If you can't...........I'll just have to blow you off again.
It'll be the final nail to confirm what I now suspect you are: full of hot air! :mrgreen:
C'mon. Prove me wrong on that.

I guess you missed the Sola scriptura post I made, showing that Sola Scriptura is historically impossible, for which you had no reply, as you didn't have a reply for the Angel's declaration of Mary the mother of Jesus. So stick your insults where the sun doesn't shine.

 

[tosca1]

I guess you missed the Sola scriptura post I made, showing that Sola Scriptura is historically impossible, for which you had no reply, as you didn't have a reply for the Angel's declaration of Mary the mother of Jesus. So stick your insults where the sun doesn't shine.

:roll:

Irrelevant!



I said:

Here's the challenge to you:

Why don't you put money where your big mouth is.

Pick an argument I gave (along with Scriptures I quoted).....and explain how it isn't from the Scriptures.


I dare you.



If you can't...........I'll just have to blow you off again.
It'll be the final nail to confirm what I now suspect you are: full of hot air!
C'mon. Prove me wrong on that.

That means, you can't!
I'd take that as your cowardly way out.

Buk-buk-buk-buk



Now you done it! Unless you've got anything with substance to say - I'll be blowing you off.

 

[it's just me]

:roll:

Irrelevant!



I said:





That means, you can't!
I'd take that as your cowardly way out.

Buk-buk-buk-buk



Now you done it! Unless you've got anything with substance to say - I'll be blowing you off.

Doesn't matter to me, you have about as much credibility as Elvira these days, I've been blowing you off for two days.