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Liberalism vs. Biblical Christianity [W:463]

gfm7175 said:
Doing what you want gives you fleshly pleasure during this Earthly life, but it does not give you spiritual pleasure during this life, and especially not during the next. Doing God's will goes against what your own flesh wants you to do, but it makes your spirit "in-tune" with God, which to me is a much better feeling, especially for the next life.


As do I. I mean, I personally don't celebrate birthdays and most holidays, but I vote in elections and I associate with friends/family and "enjoy life"...


You will definitely find fleshly happiness, but unfortunately you will not find spiritual happiness... I hope you will one day reconsider your priorities concerning this, but that decision is up to you.
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That is not a problem because all I am is flesh and I only have this life. I can't live for some imagined future "next" life. If There was a god and it didn't want us to enjoy fleshly pleasure it shouldn't have made us flesh and shouldn't have made us to enjoy fleshly pleasures. If there is a "next life" it should have just let us live only in that next life. There was no need or reason to create creatures of flesh just to make them pass a test in order to get a "next life". It is an absurd and pointless thing to do when it had the power to do anything at all.
 
gfm7175 said:
Why do you feel that the Christian God is "pointlessly evil and cruel"?

I see a loving God who chose to save us from our corrupted nature.
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If god made us god made our corrupted nature. We did not make our own nature because we don't have the powers of god.
 
Elvira said:
Really? So a schizo or an Alzheimer person's reality is true/real?:roll:
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Reality does not depend on a person's mental state. There are not the same number of realities as there are people, not to mention all other sentient creatures.
 
devildavid said:
Reality does not depend on a person's mental state. There are not the same number of realities as there are people, not to mention all other sentient creatures.
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Exactly my point...reality is not always true...truth is always real...thanks...
 
Elvira said:
Exactly my point...reality is not always true...thanks...
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No, that is not your point. You once again missed my point. Reality is not controlled by individual perception. Perception is not reality. You don't understand the meaning of the word reality. Reality is not defined as individual subjective perception. And since you think that it is, you have destroyed the possibility in your view for anyone to even conceive of the concept of truth, let alone know it even exists outside of our subjective perception. Your view pretty much says that knowing anything is a guessing game. You embrace the principle of uncertainty, while trying to claim that there is a thing you call truth. By you own views on reality, no one can possibly even understand the concept of truth.
 
devildavid said:
No, that is not your point. You once again missed my point. Reality is not controlled by individual perception. Perception is not reality. You don't understand the meaning of the word reality. Reality is not defined as individual subjective perception. And since you think that it is, you have destroyed the possibility in your view for anyone to even conceive of the concept of truth, let alone know it even exists outside of our subjective perception. Your view pretty much says that knowing anything is a guessing game. You embrace the principle of uncertainty, while trying to claim that there is a thing you call truth. By you own views on reality, no one can possibly even understand the concept of truth.
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lol...I think I know my point better than you...
 
Elvira said:
lol...I think I know my point better than you...
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No, you continue to miss my points. You lack a grasp on the reality of my posts and what I am actually saying. My post in no way shape or form agreed with anything you are claiming.
 
devildavid said:
No, you continue to miss my points. You lack a grasp on the reality of my posts and what I am actually saying. My post in no way shape or form agreed with anything you are claiming.
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Ditto...
 
Elvira said:
Ditto...
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No, I understood your point perfectly. And I countered it with mine. That is the big point that you have missed completely. You can't even see when someone counters your point.
 
devildavid said:
If god made us god made our corrupted nature.
We did not make our own nature because we don't have the powers of god.
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I disagree with this. We had a perfect nature when he created us, but we chose to disobey him, thus we corrupted ourselves. God will one day give us new bodies and we will be perfect once again, through his saving grace, as we were at creation.
 
devildavid said:
No, I understood your point perfectly. And I countered it with mine. That is the big point that you have missed completely. You can't even see when someone counters your point.
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You can't comprehend either...
 
gfm7175 said:
I disagree with this. We had a perfect nature when he created us, but we chose to disobey him, thus we corrupted ourselves. God will one day give us new bodies and we will be perfect once again, through his saving grace, as we were at creation.
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so perfect natures always tend toward not being perfect?

if you can undo what you dont like why wait?

and why create what you dont like to begin with?
 
Elvira said:
You can't comprehend either...
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to be fair you are inventing your own definitions for English words and acting like we mean what you do when you use those words its hard to follow
 
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Elvira said:
Ditto...
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There is only one difference. His definitions match the accepted definitions, and therefore, his point is valid.
 
devildavid said:
That is not a problem because all I am is flesh and I only have this life. I can't live for some imagined future "next" life. If There was a god and it didn't want us to enjoy fleshly pleasure it shouldn't have made us flesh and shouldn't have made us to enjoy fleshly pleasures. If there is a "next life" it should have just let us live only in that next life. There was no need or reason to create creatures of flesh just to make them pass a test in order to get a "next life". It is an absurd and pointless thing to do when it had the power to do anything at all.
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We were created by God to eternally have dominion over his creation and worship him (be in harmony with him). We messed that up by disobeying God, so these thousands of years on Earth are necessary to allow God to save us (through Jesus Christ) and to separate the "wheat" from the "tares". The wheat are the people who believe in God, live their life for him, and do his will while here on this Earth. The tares are the people who do not believe in God, live their life for themselves, and do their own will while here on this Earth. The "wheat" will "live", eternally in harmony with God, while the "tares" will "die", eternally separated from God.
 
gfm7175 said:
We were created by God to eternally have dominion over his creation and worship him (be in harmony with him). We messed that up by disobeying God, so these thousands of years on Earth are necessary to allow God to save us (through Jesus Christ) and to separate the "wheat" from the "tares". The wheat are the people who believe in God, live their life for him, and do his will while here on this Earth. The tares are the people who do not believe in God, live their life for themselves, and do their own will while here on this Earth. The "wheat" will "live", eternally in harmony with God, while the "tares" will "die", eternally separated from God.
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ya when your all powerful you can exist with anything so other then agreeing to whatever it wants not sure what you mean by harmony and in that case free will was a mistake since you dont like it being used and this god uses you as an object to please itself by dominating you its evil

and the concept is so stupid that its unlikely to exist
 
gfm7175 said:
No.


He's doing everything according to his timetable.


He liked what he created.
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then lots of people should be perfect

your not answering the question why would your time table include more of what you dont want?

so god wants you to do what it dosent like so it can hurt you for it unless you do something else it wants

its evil
 
gfm7175 said:
I disagree with this. We had a perfect nature when he created us, but we chose to disobey him, thus we corrupted ourselves. God will one day give us new bodies and we will be perfect once again, through his saving grace, as we were at creation.
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So you claim that we created our own nature and god had absolutely nothing to do with it. God was just a bystander in the creation of human nature. So what exactly caused humanity to disobey god in the first place if not the nature that god gave humanity? Obviously, god did not make the desire to obey him part of our nature from the beginning, but instead made the desire to disobey part of human nature.
 
gfm7175 said:
We were created by God to eternally have dominion over his creation and worship him (be in harmony with him). We messed that up by disobeying God, so these thousands of years on Earth are necessary to allow God to save us (through Jesus Christ) and to separate the "wheat" from the "tares". The wheat are the people who believe in God, live their life for him, and do his will while here on this Earth. The tares are the people who do not believe in God, live their life for themselves, and do their own will while here on this Earth. The "wheat" will "live", eternally in harmony with God, while the "tares" will "die", eternally separated from God.
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In your opinion. You have no proof.
 
devildavid said:
So you claim that we created our own nature and god had absolutely nothing to do with it. God was just a bystander in the creation of human nature. So what exactly caused humanity to disobey god in the first place if not the nature that god gave humanity? Obviously, god did not make the desire to obey him part of our nature from the beginning, but instead made the desire to disobey part of human nature.
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We created our own sinful nature. What caused humanity to disobey God? Their own free will choice to do so, as a result of being "egged on" by Satan, another one of God's creations who, by his own free will, disobeyed God because he wanted to be worshiped as God.
 
gfm7175 said:
You need to see in order to believe... But blessed are those who have not seen, but yet believe.
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how did you prove thats true

that seems like it could be immoral what should i believe about you because i feel like it?

gfm likes to attack random people on the streets with a baseball bat i have no evidence to support this but its good that you all believe me when i say it because......um......er well...you see.....it just is
 
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