Legal Vs Illegal

[Exactice]

stop right there.. I linked an article to facts regarding work.

And your.."visa"s.. has NOTHING to do with illeg....



Right.. which is a completely different animal from illegal immigration.



Whishkabibble.

So what? In your example of the kid with the grenade... would you go out and then kill all the kids because they COULD BE used as tools by the parents?

You want to punish the DACA kids because they "could be" used as a tool by the parents... and for what? Oh.....

Wow.. what a tool!!!! My you have it all figured out... these guys aren;t coming in to work.. they are brought their kid....

Wow..you have it all figured out.. :doh

Listen.. I have tried to be civil.. but you keep asking for "facts".. and I keep giving you articles, research.. actual immigration law.. .and yet you keep making the same assumptions regarding DACA.. and immigration.. that have been shown to be complete bunk.

Face it.. you are not interested in the facts...

You don't want Mexicans to immigrate here.. thats why br....

you never had any interest in discussion...

And by the way.. trump is not enforcing the laws that will work.. he is only "enforcing laws".. on children that had no choice in the matter.

Seriously?..



Yeah.. we will never see eye to eye if you want me or anyone with at least a lick of sense... to think that a kid throwing a grenade into a truck at the request of his parents... is exactly the same as a DACA kid.

Again, I truly appreciate you being civil and I apologize if the conversation escalates and I do NOT disrespect the fact that it can escalate due to personal stance on the subject.

I do see and read your information you provided. It provides Additional Insight to how you feel. To me though it does NOT help me understand why we treat them essential the same, "Legal vs Illegal" let me clarify a couple items so it doesnt seem like I am attacking you.

1) 90% immigrants are extremely hard workers, I can agree. But that is also saying water is wet. They come here for the "American Dream" sure... the only way to do that is to work and make money to survive. You dont work you dont have a roof over your head nor do you have food on the table.
1a) American Citizens are lazy and take it for granted this is how I feel.

2) 90% of immigrants coming in to America are coming in for work, the statistics I show you do not support this unfortunately. WITH that, it is NOT fair for me to ask you for ILLEGAL stats as there are likely NONE nor are they actually tracking this. BUT I question the thought as how you have come to that realization. Like DACA did we ask all 800,000 why they have come into the country. (while stupid as we know they didnt know their parents snuck them in) To say that 800,000 DACA recipients are Innocent. AND NO this is NOT only Mexican,

3) I have NEVER once used race as RACE is irrelevant. DACA applies to Chinese, Indian, refugees as well its NOT only Mexican.

4) A child that ran up to our truck because they were told by their parents, GOT SHOT... they were HURT because of the actions of the parents. THIS HAPPENED. This is NO different as an example, that the parents sneak a child illegal into america, the child while innocent is still considered illegal.

4a) Here is a Simple easier example. An Illegal is CAUGHT with a CHILD at the border today, FIRST Day. ICE agents Deport Both Parent and Child the same day. an Illegal is caught 10 years LATER from the Original Date they entered. What is the difference between the 2 examples? Just because they managed to stay under the RADAR for 10 years they get amnesty, compared to the family that was caught they same day. They are both in violation of the law, they are both illegal immigrants, the difference is that one stayed under the radar and was illegal in our country for 10 YEARS....

5) As for having it all figured out? Not even close. Illegal vs Legal is what I have figured out. There is NO gray area for ME as a citizen if I violate any law I get fined or go to Jail, My wife went the the LEGAL immigration process. Innocent or NOT there are Processes, what is the point of processes if we just provide amnesty.


Again sorry my example earlier was a terrible example. I do not expect anyone to see it perfectly. I guess I see it that direct, I assume since OUR life experience differ, we share different stances and TO be fair I want to understand your experience and why you feel differently. I just hope to share the same so you see it from my side of the fence as well.


Anyways again I apologize if you felt I was being a JERK in any way shape or form that was NOT my intent.

 

[jaeger19]

Again, I truly appreciate you being civil and I apologize if the conversation escalates and I do NOT disrespect the fact that it can escalate due to personal stance on the subject.

I do see and read your information you provided. It provides Additional Insight to how you feel. To me though it does NOT help me understand why we treat them essential the same, "Legal vs Illegal" let me clarify a couple items so it doesnt seem like I am attacking you.

2) 90% of immigrants coming in to America are coming in for work, the statistics I show you do not support this unfortunately. WITH that, it is NOT fair for me to ask you for ILLEGAL stats as there are likely NONE nor are they actually tracking this.
.

1. you are misinterpreting your information. for several reasons. Number one.. you are looking at legal immigrants and not illegal immigrants.. Secondly.. you are looking at visa application..which is not very valid in determining why a person comes to America. for example.. a person may want to come to America because they want to work, but because their brother sponsors them.. you are stating that its "chain migration".. when the REASON for coming is to work. they simply don't have a job thats sponsoring them.

and I provided you data on illegal immigrants.. 87% of illegal male immigrants work.

I have NEVER once used race as RACE is irrelevant. DACA applies to Chinese, Indian, refugees as well its NOT only Mexican.

And I never said you did.. Mexican isn't a race. Neither is Chinese. or Indian.

However.. its clear that you have assumptions concerning illegal immigrants.. from being leeches on society, to taking up loads of welfare.. to be criminals to being similar to insurgents/terrorists.

and since those assumptions have been shown to be completely wrong. and yet you keep holding strongly onto them.. thats a clear sign of prejudice.

A child that ran up to our truck because they were told by their parents, GOT SHOT... they were HURT because of the actions of the parents. THIS HAPPENED. This is NO different as an example, that the parents sneak a child illegal into america, the child while innocent is still considered illegal.
.

Dude its a huge difference. In one case the child is hurt because.. HE IS TRYING TO KILL YOU... and you are protecting your own life.

In the case of DACA.. NONE of that is happening. The DACA kid is not trying KILL YOU OR ANYONE ELSE. :doh

Here is a Simple easier example. An Illegal is CAUGHT with a CHILD at the border today, FIRST Day. ICE agents Deport Both Parent and Child the same day. an Illegal is caught 10 years LATER from the Original Date they entered. What is the difference between the 2 examples?

the difference is HUGE for the child. HUGE.. in the first example..the child returns immediately to the same situation he left.

in the second.. you are now talking about a child that has spent 10 years in America. In other words the vast amount of his life in America... he is educated in English.. and not in Spanish He reads writes and speaks English.. not spanish. He is part of the American culture.. and not part of the Mexican culture. He has no way of knowing how someone in Mexico should be..

thats a huge difference.

There is NO gray area for ME as a citizen if I violate any law I get fined or go to Jail

Bull.. do you always drive the speed limit? You violate laws every single day.. and don't get fined. Heck the police let people go all the time when they violate the law.. give them warnings etc. AND when citizens don't like a law.. the eventually change it. Look at legalization of marijuana.. by the states.. despite it still being federally illegal.

Don't give me this "its black or white"// because thats complete BS.

 

[Exactice]

1. you are misinterpreting your information. fo...
and I provided you data on illegal immigrants.. 87% of illegal male immigrants work.


However.. its clear that you have assumptions concerning illegal immigrants.. from being leeches on society, to taking up loads of welfare.. to be criminals to being....

and since those assumptions have been shown to be completely wrong. and yet you keep holding strongly onto them.. thats a clear sign of prejudice.



Dude its a huge difference. In one case the child is hurt be

In the case of DACA.. NONE of that is happening. The DACA kid is n



the difference is HUGE for the child. HUGE.. in t

in the second.. you are now talking about a child that has spent 10 years in America. In other words the vast amount of his life in America... he is educated in English.. and not in Spanish He reads writes and speaks English.. not spanish. He is part of the American culture.. and not part of the Mexican culture. He has no way of knowing how someone in Mexico should be..

thats a huge difference.



Bull.. do you always drive the speed limit? You violate laws every single day.. and don't get fined. Heck the police let people go all the time when they violate the law.. give them warnings etc. AND when citizens don't like a law.. the eventually change it. Look at legalization of marijuana.. by the states.. despite it still being federally illegal.

Don't give me this "its black or white"// because thats complete BS.

You are Correct, I do have my own assumptions and opinions, this is why I am reaching out, to expand my thoughts. BE IT ignorant and or assumptions. So take it for face value that while I am Ignorant I am trying my best to understand that is why I am having this debate with you. For you are one of the stronger proponents that is providing me debatable content. I will say I am NOT ignoring any of your information. I am trying to process it and write it into my own thoughts and beliefs

Sorry as for term, Race wrong term, I guess I meant ethnicity. As I harbor no ill will to a specific ethnicity as termed "Mexican"

I never finalized my thoughts, as criminals, leaches, these are all assumptions that I am having cleared up by you. Again I am expanding my understanding and factual understandings....take it for what its worth.

secondly. My whole point. with the terms and from my original post is "black and white' I experienced first hand the immigration process. My wife while different was of legal immigeration, Followed the laws of the land.

DACA recipients by law are considered Illegal and currently given deferment. regardless how they arrived. DACA NOT being exclusive "to being "illegal" as I consider ALL illegal immigrants that. Anyways. Why should they get amnesty? We have immigration limits, we have laws. why do they get amnesty, just because they are children? to be Fair I do NOT see just because you are a child you get to skip the line and amnesty. This again is my opinion based on my experiences.


Again my earlier example was a bad, one so give me a mulligan, it was the best.... that being said, you stated, that a child living for 10 years.... is educated etc etc.... Well I would assume you to be right... I would HOPE that you would be right, but realistically, I dont think that 800,000 DACA "children" assimilated. Like you are pointing. out , I posted this in another thread... So called dreamer that doesn't speak English as a native language? Again NOT the perfect example.... but my point is.... Its all or nothing then? Is there no Merit Screening on DACA recipients?

https://youtu.be/8YICT8RDJ9Y?t=11s

"shes been here since she was 1 years old"

SHE DOESNT SPEAK English? But the rest of the 799,999 that came when they were 1 years old Speak English and acclimated and Assimilated to America? REALLY??? REALLY???

https://youtu.be/uMw6pk0jcaM?t=26s

Another one... 23 years old. been here for 22 years.... Doesnt speak english? LOL

As for Black and White YES to me it is. Im sure Illegals commit small crimes as WELL and get away, BUT Im talking about legit FEDERAL Crimes, THERE is NO pass for me. There is NO pass if I dont pay My Taxes to the IRS. There is NO pass if I dont Register my firearms in my state.

SURE if I am NOT caught I wont get busted but when I do get caught, can I use DACA as an excuse for breaking federal law?


I agree.. sure there are small things from littering to speeding. But the point is. Federal immigration law is there, same with the IRS... they are NOT even citizens and seem to be treated better than a law abiding citizen. Kinda like our firearms thread. A criminal gets more rights for breaking into my home and getting shot, then the law abiding citizen trying to protect themselves and valuables.

That sir is BS in my book

 

[jaeger19]

.

secondly. My whole point. with the terms and from my original post is "black and white' I experienced first hand the immigration process. My wife while different was of legal immigeration, Followed the laws of the land.

The key phrase here is "while different"... she was not 16.. she was not brought here illegally through no action of her own, she was not RAISED in American culture.. but had been raised in another country.. spoke its language, could read and write its language. Had worked in that country.. so going back for 2 years was no big deal. She had friends and family to go back to... probably a job as well.

Why should they get amnesty? We have immigration limits, we have laws. why do they get amnesty, just because they are children? to be Fair I do NOT see just because you are a child you get to skip the line and amnesty. This again is my opinion based on my experiences.

see above. your experience with legal immigration was NOT like what would happen to DACA. Particularly since according to current law.. they would have to wait 10 years in that basically foreign country.. waiting to just apply to have a visa.. then maybe wait another 20 years if ever to get in.

I would HOPE that you would be right, but realistically, I dont think that 800,000 DACA "children" assimilated. Like you are pointing. out , I posted this in another thread... So called dreamer that doesn't speak English as a native language? Again NOT the perfect example.... but my point is.... Its all or nothing then? Is there no Merit Screening on DACA recipients?

See.,, its this stuff that frustrates me.. we have been over this. First.. DACA are the children that HAVE COME FORWARD and signed up for DACA status... which means that they WANT to follow the law.. and thats because they see themselves as americans already. Because they are already assimilated into our culture. AND IF they go through citizenship process they will have to pass reading and writing tests.. and demonstrate understanding of us history and civics.

BUT Im talking about legit FEDERAL Crimes, THERE is NO pass for me. There is NO pass if I dont pay My Taxes to the IRS. There is NO pass if I dont Register my firearms in my state.

Bull... people get caught not paying taxes and get leniency or no penalties all the time. Heck.. they advertise programs on TV to lessen if you get caught on taxes. They also have special provisions for "ignorant spouse".. if a couple file jointly but the husband or wife was being hincky with the books. If the spouse was ignorant that their husband/wife was committing IRS fraud.. then they are absolved of responsibility.

By requesting innocent spouse relief, you can be relieved of responsibility for paying tax, interest, and penalties if your spouse (or former spouse) improperly reported items or omitted items on your tax return. Generally, the tax, interest, and penalties that qualify for relief can only be collected from your spouse (or former spouse).

Registering firearms? Depends on your state.. in many states.. they will not prosecute you or fine you unless you have committed an illegal act with your firearm.

A criminal gets more rights for breaking into my home and getting shot, then the law abiding citizen trying to protect themselves and valuables.

That sir is BS in my book

Why is it BS. According to you.. the law is the law and its black and white.. so you should be happy that the criminal gets more rights than you.. because its the LAW.. no exceptions.. no reason to change it.. no complaining about it.. you should just accept it.. its the law of the land.

thats exactly your position on DACA.

Do you see my point? when you don't like how the law applies to you.. you claim its BS.. and I bet you would support that law being changed.

but.. when people see how immigration law is unjust in how it applies to kids brought here.. you claim that there should be no reason to change the law.. because "its the law"..

Do you notice your hypocrisy?

 

[Exactice]

The key phrase here is "while different"... she was not 16.. she was not brought here illegally through no action of her own, she was not RAISED in American culture.. but had been raised in another country.. spoke its language, could read and write its language. Had worked in that country.. so going back for 2 years was no big deal. She had friends and family to go back to... probably a job as well.

I agree.. again its not a perfect example, but Legal migration vs ILLEGAL migration. She speaks reads and writes english just fine and works just fine in our country as well, and SHE DIDNT take 10 years to do so. Any ways I get your point on this and debating this point is a little useless.
.....I agree. BUT THAT was the choice that was bestowed on them the parents put their child in that jeopardy....... Wht should the others that DID NOT do so... be pushed back of the line or have their chances watered down to enter the country. Again Parents made the choice to jeopardize the child and family, if they DIDNT sneak the child but just try to migrate legal, they would NOT be in this jeopardy to begin with? Also if the used a proper visa, they might not have had to worry about a 10-20 year delay period...they might have gotten naturalized and a green card FASTER who knows. But it was the risk the Parents that took that jeopardized EVERYTHING.



See.,, its this stuff that frustrates me.. we have been over this. First.. DACA are the children that HAVE COME FORWARD and signed up for DACA status... which means that they WANT to follow the law.. and thats because they see themselves as americans already. Be.... Sorry again, I know I probably am... I am really trying to put things all together. As for Children coming forward SURE... why would the NOT out of fear of persecution. Obama handed out a GOLDEN TICKET. And who would have thought Trump would have gotten in and went "immigration" crazy. Risk vs Reward no? As for your after point again I agree.... I does SUCK and that is reality. Sure the Children have been "raised" American per say.... but the broke to law to do so. I will say this.... I actually do agree for some Type of Pathway....for DACA recipients that actually do Prove their assimilation like you stated a reading and writing test etc. I totally on board for that!



Bull... people get caught not payi..Well common Clinton gets a BJ in the Oval office and is paid for life, his wife can have private servers and destroy evidence.... ..I agree..... but these are powerful well funded people non mortals like you and I. If I got audited and found I didnt pay taxes for 10+ years..... I highly doubt I would get lenience? My state SUCKS, if I dont register... is a Class B or C felony, 10 years in prison $25k fine or 5 years prison,
$10k fine..... again as a mere mortal with no celebrity status... doubt I would get an leniency that you speak of.



Registering firearms? Depends on your state.. in many states.. they will not pros. See above



Why is it BS. According to you.. the law is the law and its black and white.. so you should be happy that the criminal gets more rights than you.. because its the LAW.. no exceptions.. no reason to change it.. no complaining about it.. you should just accept it.. its the law of the land. Well the law is black in white...... but we have litigation that makes it very gray. As for a criminal entering my house unlawfully and my shooting them yet getting sued in criminal and civil court because of their actions? Yeah well I dont think its fair, but if thats the laws while I may NOT agree with it. It is what it is. The law will either be served or NOT, Black and White. DACA is really the same thing. they are either illegal or will be given Amnesty. Either outcome is what it is. I am just asking why they deserve it compared to others that are in LINE currently waiting for their immigration papers.

thats exactly your position on DACA.

Do you see my point? when you don't like how the law applies to you.. you claim its BS.. and I bet you would support that law being changed. How the Law applies to me? No I follow the law and if I choose to break one that is the risk vs reward I take... that is with ANYONE? Not specific to me.

but.. when people see how immigration law is unjust in how it appl..
Do you notice your hypocrisy?

LOL..... Wow thats pretty good you flip the script on me HAAH! All good I probably deserve it....



Anyways as for DACA trying to do the right thing, well they could have left the country as soon as they found out and tried to re apply...not wait till Obama provided a hand out? LOL!

 

[Nickyjo]

This is why I scratch my head, Any prudent person I would assume can distinguish the difference between LEGAL and ILLEGAL right? Thats what I thought.... But Sanctuary cities refuse to Accept it? Why is is that.....What is the actual justification? As again I HAVE gone through the Legal process..... what justification does the "Illegal"/Sanctuary cities have that I am not understanding?

There are various justifications: some cities want to make it more likely that illegals will cooperate with the police in criminal investigations, some are subject to political pressures from the legal immigrant community, who often have undocumented relatives, some appreciate the subsidies the undocumented provide to our society in the form of cheaper construction costs, restaurant meals, and hotel rooms due to their labor, and some realize that many Hondurans and Salvadorans are fleeing for their lives from drug gangs. But remember, there is no "sanctuary" policy as such, as each jurisdiction probably has different practices that are broadly labeled as sanctuary. The lack of cooperation by city authorities is analogous to those states who refused to expand Medicaid per Obamacare.

 

[jaeger19]

agree.. again its not a perfect example, but Legal migration vs ILLEGAL migration. She speaks reads and writes english just fine and works just fine in our country as well, and SHE DIDNT take 10 years to do so. Any ways I get your point on this and debating this point is a little useless. !

its not useless as long as you keep stating that a DACA's situation is the same as your spouses. Your spouse was not brought across the border through no action of her own.

they were.

Obama handed out a GOLDEN TICKET.

Come on man. You are so full of BS. If Obama had truly handed out the Golden ticket... then we wouldn't be having this discussion on what to do with DACA. they would be citizens and that would be that.

All Obama did.. is give kids that were brought here a chance to continue to live here and go to school or work. without being deported to a country that they have hardly ever lived in. no golden ticket.

You keep making stuff up as if its fact when its not. Just like your impressions on welfare, and chain migration.

If I got audited and found I didnt pay taxes for 10+ years..... I highly doubt I would get lenience? My state SUCKS, if I dont register... is a Class B or C felony, 10 years in prison $25k fine or 5 years prison,
$10k fine..... again as a mere mortal with no celebrity status... doubt I would get an leniency that you speak of.

People get leniency all the time. Oh and lets not kid ourselves here. IF you got caught not registering your firearm... you would not be pleading guilty and saying.. "well give me the maximum sentence because its justice, I deserve it because I broke the law"...

You would be arguing all over the place that you should be given leniency because you have never broken the law before.. you simply forgot to register but thought you had... you didn;t commit any real crime.. and that that law is unjust. So on and so forth.

I am just asking why they deserve it compared to others that are in LINE currently waiting for their immigration papers

.

You realize is that all they are asking is that they get to stand in line with the others right? The only thing they are asking is that they don't get penalized for being brought here illegally.

How the Law applies to me? No I follow the law and if I choose to break one that is the risk vs reward I take... that is with ANYONE? Not specific to me.

No.. how you feel about the law. You stated that the law was BS... which means that even though its the LAW.. you think it should be changed... or do you think you SHOULD have to register your guns?

That's your hypocrisy. You don't think that DACA should be changed... because "the laws the law".. as if thats that.

Meanwhile when it pertains to you.. you think that gun registration is BS.

Anyways as for DACA trying to do the right thing, well they could have left the country as soon as they found out and tried to re apply...not wait till Obama provided a hand out? LOL!

So you think it would be safe and fine for my son;s friend who is 16.. that when he found out at 15 that he was undocumented.. he should have left for mexico where he would be a 15 year old kid with no money, no job, who can sort of speak Spanish.. but can't read it or write it.. and he has no family or friends?

Come on. :doh

 

[Exactice]

its not useless as long as you keep stati..
THATS Exactly the point we are trying to discuss, Thats why, WHY should the get the same benefit as my wife, WHEN they went through a different process which was ILLEGAL in the first place,
I am NOT saying their situation is the same, so I am saying they should NOT get the same benefits. That IS the point.

Come on man. You are so full of BS. If Obama had truly handed out the Golden ticket.....
Rexlax relax lol..... That is my opinion... we are all entailed to our opinions. Golden ticket is just a term....and What else is it called when you are "Deferred from Deportation" it a PASS... NO if ands or butts. OF course the term is MY OPINION, Secondly if they KNEW that they were going to apply, they KNEW they would have a DEFERRED TIME..... The policy BTW was an Executive Action not a legislative one....
secondly it was enacted 2012, As of 2016 they HAD 6 years to go through the proper Immigration process...... and likely even if DACA fails I highly doubt we will DEPORT all 800,000 this 2018 meaning, if they went through LEGAL immigration process they might have gotten their permanent residence by now. They HAD as of Current 6 YEARS to do SOMETHING. Am I making this up LOL... and you say doing the right thing right?



People get leniency all the time. Oh and lets ..Again I agree.... There is LOTS of Leniency.... as for Firearm... you are joking right? If I have an unregistered weapon...and I am caught, am I supposed to automatically pleased not guilty? WHAT? Secondly, I am NOT the one that asks for a sentence the JUDGE will provide the sentence LOL..... I have NO control over the law. But as AN AMERICAN I am bounded to follow the law or suffer whatever consequences I get.

You would be arguing all over.... IGNORANCE of the LAW is no excuse..... SURE you are right I can argue all I want..... but ultimately if the judge decided to give me the maximum or the minimum that is UP to the JUDGE. I cant protest in the street and say I am staying out of Jail.... commit any real crime? Really again Its black and white. If I "Forgot" to register my rifle I am an IDIOT to NOT know the laws of my state.... If I intentionally did not register I knowingly committed a crime there is NO grey area that the law is BROKEN, But likely the sentencing would differ (assuming) BUT I still broke the law and I woudl still be sentenced... PERIOD..... NO pass.... NO amnesty...

.

You realize is that all they are asking is that they get to stand in line with the others right? T...... You are right.... But they are NOT standing in line they are CUTTING in line...... Hundreds of THOUSANDS of others are in line as well, but DACA people are getting a front row pass...... If they ARE NOT and I would like to confirm this... that they will go INTO the immigration CYCLE...... which they wont because they will be ALLOWED TO STAY IN THE COUNTRY compared to others that are STILL waiting in line LEGALLY OUT of the Country.....
ITs NOT the same.... they are getting a PASS.....



No.. how you feel about the law. You stated that the law was BS... which ...Sure again my thoughts and opinions are mine and mine alone, Unless I rally, to support a change and get it, only then can the law change... But by me just saying I will NOT follow the law will it NOT change? Do you not see that the DACA guys DID NOT FOLLOW THE LAW and want the LAW to change in their favor. I can "B!T#h" and moan all I want... thats my right... But I am still bounded by the law, IT WONT Change just for me so i deal with it.... THESE DACA People are expending Citizenship rights to demand AMERICAN LAWS TO CHANGE and they are NOT EVEN CITIZENS.... I hope you see that as well.



Come on. :doh

COME ON LOL..... at this point sorry jaeger as I do not want to get personal with you or angry or heated so I am going to "lighten" up...take it for what its worth.

 

[Exactice]

Part 2
That's your hypocrisy. You don't think that DACA should be changed......Again these DACA people are NOT even Citizens. What gives them the right...
to violate our LAWS and then Demand WE CHANGE Them in their favor? LOL

Meanwhile when it pertains to you.. you .... No I do not think registration is BS, I used that as an example if I did NOT register I would be in violation of the law and face a class B or C felony charge..... If I was strongly against it, I would go to my legislator and lobby to remove the requirement, BUT I agree on the registration process so I have all my firearms legally registered. Again my point is if I chose NOT to, I would be in violation and would face prosecution. SAME AS DACA, they are in violation and should Face prosecution (not literally, but whatever our government finally decides on)



So you think it would be safe and fine for my son;s . Actually you made a great point..... so the 16 year-old boy, would be 10 years old when the DACA was initiated. So between this TIME they had a chance to register, THIS WHOLE PERIOD no who knows when they actually applied for DACA, but lets say 1 year ago..... during this time, 1 year ago and UP to this point.... Why has the 15 year old NOT stood inline and applied for a VISA along with and or a permanent residence? WITHIN the 4 categories of LEGAL immigration, IF they do NOT fit in the LEGAL immigration Categories.... well SO Sorry.... again WHAT IS THE POINT OF Immigration Laws if you are going to ignore them. I use the same situation a Chinese 15 year old boy is applying, Do they fit the 4 legal channels, If not guess what they cant come in....... Why should we treat a DACA and different from any other 16 year old applying around the world? AGAIN why does DACA get a seperate Deal from the REST of the Immigrants world wide... You stated they are getting in line... NO they are getting ahead of the line or a "separate" line

 

[Exactice]

Actually I want to try something else.

LEGAL immigration - What is the legal way?

Sponsorship (Family Sponsorship, K visa's etc)
Work (H visa and other work Visas
Diversity Visa
Asylum/Refugee

Long Tim Resident - Cancellation of removal


Illegal Immigration path way

Green card through Marriage of US Citizen, LPR
Dreamers green Card through Employment with Life Act
Asylum Status
U Visa for Victims

Long Tim Resident - Cancellation of removal




This is a quick snap shot correct me if I am wrong. But under the assumption these are the Federal Immigration laws we currently have in place... LAWS...

If you fit into these categories you can either legally migrate to the US. or you CAN continue to stay in the US. If you DO NOT fit these categories you must leave.


Second lets break DACA Down for a Second.....

Under 16 years old, is <0.5
16-20 - 29%
21-25- 37%
26-30- 24%
31-36 11%


If we cut the pie and be morally nice.... lets say we are concerned of the pie of 20 years and younger. Likely not married and likely do NOT have a JOB with Job sponsor. Lets round that out to 30% total of all DACA recipients. 690,000 DACA 30% = 207,000 "Kids" as lets NOT "kid" ourselves, 483,000 are NOT "kids"

Of those 207,000 DACA 20yr old and younger.... if we were to screen them and if they were good, KIDS no trouble in school actually trying to make a life.... Then YEAH It sounds like these guys got a chance.... 200,000 is a drop in the bucket.


the Remaining 483,000 they are adults.... to bad so sad dont fit in the immigration laws..... the penalties apply like ANY US citizen found guilt of a crime...face the punishment.


And imagine this is DACA..... what about NON DACA... people..... the law is the law is the law? NO? Totally disagree?

 

[jaeger19]

THATS Exactly the point we are trying to discuss, Thats why, WHY should the get the same benefit as my wife, WHEN they went through a different process which was ILLEGAL in the first place,
I am NOT saying their situation is the same, so I am saying they should NOT get the same benefits. That IS the point.

Listen.. if you think its justice to dump a 16 year old kid who hardly speaks Spanish.. who can't read it or write it.. who is educated in English.. and dump them in essentially a foreign country with no money, no job, etc... and make them wait 10 years before being allowed to apply for a visa... well thats you.

I disagree. I don't think its justice to that to a child or young person.. who came here through no fault of their own.

Golden ticket is just a term...

Yes.. and we know where the term comes from... it was a ticket INTO the chocolate factory.

BUT DACA is not that.. its not a ticket to citizenship.

as for Firearm... you are joking right?

No.. you would try for leniency.. you would have no problem thinking that you should not be punished for 10 years because you didn;t register the firearm.. when a criminal that actually hurts someone only gets 5 years. You would say its unjust.

If I "Forgot" to register my rifle I am an IDIOT to NOT know the laws of my state.... If I intentionally did not register I knowingly committed a crime there is NO grey area that the law is BROKEN, But likely the sentencing would differ (assuming) BUT I still broke the law and I woudl still be sentenced... PERIOD..... NO pass.... NO amnesty

... Actually in all likelihood you would get amnesty you would get a pass.. AND you would be seeking one.

You are right.... But they are NOT standing in line they are CUTTING in line......

And thats an outright lie... THEY ARE NOT GETTING A FRONT ROW SEAT TO CITIZENSHIP... A FLAT OUT LIE... just like the lies that have been spouted about welfare.. and chain migration.

THESE DACA People are expending Citizenship rights to demand AMERICAN LAWS TO CHANGE and they are NOT EVEN CITIZENS.... I hope you see that as well.

Yeah.. I don't see that at all. I see the unjustice that's being done to some kids that never personally did anything wrong. They were brought here. ...

I don't see "demanding"... they can't do demanding... the person doing the demanding is people like me.. that thing the law should be changed so that these kids get a fair chance to immigrate to this country...and don't have to be punished for being brought here when they were kids.

 

[jaeger19]

Part 2
That's your hypocrisy. You don't think that DACA should be changed......Again these DACA people are NOT even Citizens. What gives them the right...
to violate our LAWS and then Demand WE CHANGE Them in their favor? LOL
]

What makes you think they are DEMANDING this? Again.. this is an example of your bias... so now we have they are freeloaders on welfare.. (debunked), like terrorists (debunked), Getting a "golden ticket" (debunked).. and now they are "'DEMANDING".

The people that are capable of doing demanding that the law be changed.. is citizens like me.

No I do not think registration is BS,

Really.. so you support gun registration... well that's a surprise.

Why has the 15 year old NOT stood inline and applied for a VISA along with and or a permanent residence

Ahhhhhh we already went over this...
BECAUSE HE CAN"T... BECAUSE ACCORDING TO THE LAW.. HE MUST LEAVE THE COUNTRY FOR 10 YEARS BEFORE HE CAN APPLY.

I already gave you this information.!!!!!

And the reason he can't apply is because his PARENTS brought him here illegally. NO FAULT OF HIS OWN.

 

[jaeger19]

Actually I want to try something else.

LEGAL immigration - What is the legal way?

Sponsorship (Family Sponsorship, K visa's etc)
Work (H visa and other work Visas
Diversity Visa
Asylum/Refugee

Long Tim Resident - Cancellation of removal


Illegal Immigration path way

Green card through Marriage of US Citizen, LPR
Dreamers green Card through Employment with Life Act
Asylum Status
U Visa for Victims

Long Tim Resident - Cancellation of removal




This is a quick snap shot correct me if I am wrong. But under the assumption these are the Federal Immigration laws we currently have in place... LAWS...

If you fit into these categories you can either legally migrate to the US. or you CAN continue to stay in the US. If you DO NOT fit these categories you must leave.


Second lets break DACA Down for a Second.....

Under 16 years old, is <0.5
16-20 - 29%
21-25- 37%
26-30- 24%
31-36 11%


If we cut the pie and be morally nice.... lets say we are concerned of the pie of 20 years and younger. Likely not married and likely do NOT have a JOB with Job sponsor. Lets round that out to 30% total of all DACA recipients. 690,000 DACA 30% = 207,000 "Kids" as lets NOT "kid" ourselves, 483,000 are NOT "kids"

Of those 207,000 DACA 20yr old and younger.... if we were to screen them and if they were good, KIDS no trouble in school actually trying to make a life.... Then YEAH It sounds like these guys got a chance.... 200,000 is a drop in the bucket.


the Remaining 483,000 they are adults.... to bad so sad dont fit in the immigration laws..... the penalties apply like ANY US citizen found guilt of a crime...face the punishment.


And imagine this is DACA..... what about NON DACA... people..... the law is the law is the law? NO? Totally disagree?

YOU DON"T UNDERSTAND why they can't apply... THEY WERE BROUGHT HERE BY THERE PARENTS ILLEGALLY.

Non Daca people? If they knowingly immigrated illegally.. and they don't qualify as coming from a country that has had a natural disaster or bloodshed and so were given permission to stay...

then yeah.. so sad too bad go back to your country.

 

[Exactice]

Listen.. if you think its justice to dump a 16 year old kid who hardly speaks Spanish.. who can't read it or write it.. who is educated in English.. and dump them in essentially a foreign country with no money, no job, etc... and make them wait 10 years before being allowed to apply for a visa... well thats you.WOW! Actually I just realized you hit the nail on the head and probably the source of this conversation.
Is IT justice? NO NOT AT ALL! I agree......I personally agree that it is an INJUSTICE to deport a 16 year old kid. The difference Though that I see, precedence. If we do not address it now, it will continue and continue to be a soar spot. It has to be either enforce or legally address.... I

I disagree. I don't think its justice to that to a child or young person.. who came here through no fault of their own. Again I do Agree... The hard part to me is we let one go but there are millions of other children in horrible situations why are we not saving them.....



Yes.. and we know where the term comes from... it was a ticket INTO the chocolate factory.

BUT DACA is not that.. its not a ticket to citizenship. LOL..... I dont know how to respond to this.....you want to take my term as a literal statement of a chocolate factory ticket.... when it was purely meant to use as an example for what people AROUND the world would look for and strive for ( of course my opinion, but does not seem far fetched)

No.. you would try for leniency.. you would have no problem thinking that you should not be punished for 10 years because you didn;t register the firearm.. when a criminal that actually hurts someone only gets 5 years. You would say its unjust. OF course I would anyone WOULD....but again as an individual that violates the law, I Dont dictate it. A judge or jury ultimately decides my fate...NOT myself. DACA Kids are trying to DECIDED their fate by protesting etc.... they are NOT even citizens.... Again I am purely stating laws are in place with penalties. While the penalties are not the end all there are still penalties.

... Actually in all likelihood you would get amnesty you would get a pass.. AND you would be seeking one.


And thats an outright lie... THEY ARE NOT GETTING A FRONT ROW SEAT TO CITIZENSHIP... A FLAT OUT LIE... just like the lies that have been spouted about welfare.. and chain migration. You seem to ignore my point.
the difference between a 16 year old under DACA, vs a 16 year old in India. The 16 year old under DACA is ALREADY HERE...they just get to remain here while applying. That is a FRONT ROW SKIP..they are HERE ALREADY. So out right lie?
well "sticks and stones" as for welfare and chain migration I admitted in my earlier statements that I was incorrect and made many assumptions. BUT that does not mean that they are trying or actually have abused the system because I am pretty sure they have, NOT all, NOT a majority, but I am sure they have.



Yeah.. I don't see that at all. I see the unjustice that's being done to some kids that never personally did anything wrong. They were brought here. ... I agree, again I think thats a great point that is More important. HOW do we deal with this injustice, while trying to stop and future similar situations???

I don't see "demanding"... they can't do demanding... the person doing the demanding is people like me.. that thing the law should be changed so that these kids get a fair chance to immigrate to this country...and don't have to be punished for being brought here when they were kids.

You are right! As an American Citizen, you have the right correct, This is also why I am here discussing with you. I also have the right to demand against. IF its a toss up 50/50 we need to either come to an agreement, or one of us has to convince the other of why their stance is the preferred stance. The DACA kids though at this point, can STILL take advantage. Currently they protest in saying we are here to stay, Are we really going to go full blast and deport all 800,000? Secondly, they are in fact here, They are likely NOT going to flee....they are going BACK into the shadows and hide under veil of illegal immigration.....

 

[Exactice]

What makes you think they are DEMANDING this? Again.. this is an example of your bias... so now we have they are freeloaders on welfare.. (debunked), like terrorists (debunked), Getting a "golden ticket" (debunked).. and now they are "'DEMANDING". Not sure why you keep throwing the freeloader welfare thing, even terrorist thing LOL......those were all discussion points... that you debated...
nothing of that sort shows bias.. its all about discussion LOL... and YES they are demanding...I posted 2 earlier videos of protest and demand and heck they even attack the beloved Nancy Pelosi.... LOL she got hammered...

The people that are capable of doing demanding that the law be changed.. is citizens like me. correct! but they are also getting a LOT of screen time and exposure......More than some important CITIZENS like homelessness, what about CHIP, what about American Healthcare..... I honestly feel the the difference of 350 million out ways 800,000 non citizens....

Really.. so you support gun registration... well that's a surprise. Where or Where did you get the idea that I never did? I used the example purely for a discussion about following the law, this in no way was a personal point of view, You can even pull all my old post in the firearms section..... You want to take ever single word or post I make and criticize rather than a discussion....This whole discussion AGAIN is opinions and trying to understand BOTH sides of the fence. I have NOT made a final decision. I have my OPINIONS. But if the law of the land accepts DACA and provides them Amnesty. That is the will of the country..... and I will fully accept it.



Ahhhhhh we already went over this...
BECAUSE HE CAN"T... BECAUSE ACCORDING TO THE LAW.. HE MUST LEAVE THE COUNTRY FOR 10 YEARS BEFORE HE CAN APPLY. THAT IS A LIE LOL.....
read DACA.... they are NOT subject to the same illegal immigrant status that is why they were PROVIDED DACA in the first place READ THE Executive ORDER they are deferred from deportation,
they can get a work visa and they can still apply for legal migrations status without deportation READ IT!I just provide information AS WELL what the DACA KIDS CAN LEGALLY DO!!!! If they FOLLOW one of the 4 points I just listed they CAN bypass the requirements.... READ what I posted. THE PARENTS are subject to leaving the country, DACA recipients HAVE a SEPARATE agreement based on them receiving DACA

I already gave you this information.!!!!! AND I AM PROVIDING YOU REBUTTAL INFORMATION Where you are INCORRECT. I have personally been on the USCIS Site for HOURS reading about immigration for my wife.... So I feel I have a better jist of options...... Have read the USCIS immigration options? AGAIN DACA is PROVIDED deferment OPTIONS SEPARATE from the Standard ILLEGAL immigrant

And the reason he can't apply is because his PARENTS brought him here illegally. NO FAULT OF HIS OWN.

AGAIN read my links or go to the USCIS site... its spell out ACTUAL SEPERATE OPTIONS for
DACA RECIPIENTS THIS IS WHAT BAMA WAS TRYING TO DO IN THE FIRST PLACE, provide a SEPERATE LINE/OPTION as an ILLEGAL IMMIGRATE!

 

[Exactice]

YOU DON"T UNDERSTAND why they can't apply... THEY WERE BROUGHT HERE BY THERE PARENTS ILLEGALLY.

Non Daca people? If they knowingly immigrated illegally.. and they don't qualify as coming from a country that has had a natural disaster or bloodshed and so were given permission to stay...

then yeah.. so sad too bad go back to your country.

Im starting to see where you seem to misunderstand some things as well.


DACA is an executive action provided by Obama to give them a separate option of being classified an Illegal Immigrant, Meaning that they can USE the 4 legal path ways provided to them WITHOUT fear of deportation or the Extended wait times of 10 years. READ IT.

1) Married/Sponsor Visa
2) Work Sponsored Visa
3) Asylum/Refugee
4) U VISA - Acts of Violence.

As you stated a NORMAL illegal would have to LEAVE the country and apply for one of these status' and then return. DACA does NOT as they are protected. TOTALLY different from your "lies" (like you use on me all the time) about having to leave and wait for 10 years..... YES it is a skip the line, YES it is a deferred GOLDEN ticket.........


These 4 options are our LEGAL options.... if they do not fit any of these then what, we are to add a 5th option? Full Amnesty? Is this the will of the American People......

 

[Exactice]

Lets try this differently.... BTW I am totally messing around with the Large Font.... dont be offended LOL


Legal migration - Wait out side of the country. Apply for applicable visa, go through process wait the time out, and cross fingers your Visa is approved, from there apply for green card/permanent status and then finally citizenship if wanted

Illegal migration - The are subject to Federal Law violation and must wait 10 years.

DACA- Provided an Executive Action of Deferred deportation of 2 years renewable. During the 2 years renewable they can apply for the 4 Visas that I stated.....and if and when approved they can obtain green card/permanent status and then trying for citizenship. They wont be deported due to their applied status and still allow them to apply for Visas then permanent stays.

DAPA- was similar as above....... separate from the "Illegal" migration laws.... Deferred action.......




The concern seems to be those that are UNDER DACA but dont meet the 4 Visa options during this period. Specifically those that are under the legal marriage age and work age where they dont have a chance at those 2 Visa Options. Asylum and U visa specific as well... So the 16 year old kid Does NOT really have any options..... How about we address those and ONLY those, the "ADULT" DACA and DAPA people if they dont fit the miggration laws,..... so sorry....

 

[jaeger19]

WOW! Actually I just realized you hit the nail on the head and probably the source of this conversation.
Is IT justice? NO NOT AT ALL! I agree......I personally agree that it is an INJUSTICE to deport a 16 year old kid. The difference Though that I see, precedence. If we do not address it now, it will continue and continue to be a soar spot. It has to be either enforce or legally address.... I

Sure.. so let the DACA kids get the normal path of citizenship.. allow them to stay on a visa while its working out. AND start enforcing the laws on employers so that there is no incentive for parents to come over here. But of course that won't happen because Trump certainly has no interest in doing anything that will ACTUALLY stop illegal immigration.

LOL..... I dont know how to respond to this.....you want to take my term as a literal statement of a chocolate factory ticket.... when it was purely meant to use as an example for what people AROUND the world would look for and strive for ( of course my opinion, but does not seem far fetched)

Oh.. you mean they strive to be put into a limbo status so that at a whim of an administration they can suddenly be deported? Is that what you call a "golden ticket"????.

OF course I would anyone WOULD....but again as an individual that violates the law, I Dont dictate it

. right.. and neither WILL THEY. They CAN'T dictate the law. And its absurd that you think DACA kids can "demand" anything.

The 16 year old under DACA is ALREADY HERE...they just get to remain here while applying

Under current law.. no they don't.

BUT that does not mean that they are trying or actually have abused the system because I am pretty sure they have, NOT all, NOT a majority, but I am sure they have.

Great.. provide evidence please.

You are right! As an American Citizen, you have the right correct, This is also why I am here discussing with you. I also have the right to demand against. IF its a toss up 50/50 we need to either come to an agreement, or one of us has to convince the other of why their stance is the preferred stance.

Well lets see.. you already agree that my stance on the injustice is correct.

So my stance will be cheaper, more effective, give justice to these kids, AND actually decrease or stop illegal immigration.

your position will do nothing to stop illegal immigration.. in fact.. push 800,000 people back into the shadows. Cost the country way more economically and in our government budget.

 

[jaeger19]

THAT IS A LIE LOL.....
read DACA.... they are NOT subject to the same illegal immigrant status that is why they were PROVIDED DACA in the first place READ THE Executive ORDER they are deferred from deportation,
they can get a work visa and they can still apply for legal migrations status without deportation READ IT

You need to read it. Yep.. they can apply.. and are STILL SUBJECT TO THE LAW ON ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.. they still need to leave the country for 10 years depending on how long they have been here illegally. they simply don't have to fear being DEPORTED.. but to legally immigrate.. they would need to have a sponsor, or need asylum AND LEAVE THE COUNTRY FOR up to10 YEARS .

Besides the fact that most of them don't have any way to be sponsored, or qualify for asylum.

AGAIN read my links or go to the USCIS site... its spell out ACTUAL SEPERATE OPTIONS for
DACA RECIPIENTS THIS IS WHAT BAMA WAS TRYING TO DO IN THE FIRST PLACE, provide a SEPERATE LINE/OPTION as an ILLEGAL IMMIGRATE!

I did.. you just don't understand what it means. All Obama can do in an executive order is change how he is going to enforce the law.. he cannot CHANGE immigration law. In Daca.. he allowed kids to come out of the shadows AND NOT BE DEPORTED.

It doesn;t change existing immigration law.

IF "bama".. was capable of " providing a separate line/option to become a citizen... then the DACA problem would not exist.. as all these kids would be citizens already.

 

[Exactice]

Sure.. so let the DACA kids get the normal path of citizenship.. allow them to stay on a visa while its working out. AND start enforcing the laws on employers so that there is no incentive for parents to come over here. But of course that won't happen because Trump certainly has no interest in doing anything that will ACTUALLY stop illegal immigration. Hey WE are starting to Agree!
LOL, Yes Lets agree the DACA "KIDS" and I say DACA "KIDS 20 years and younger, are allowed to stay through vetting, and if they are good kids let them work it out HERE. Those 21 years and older are ADULTS not kids...if they dont FIT the current Immigration Laws.... then they need to leave and re apply. As for Enforcing EXISTING laws, I am TOTALLY in agree with you!



Oh.. you mean they strive to be put into a limbo status so that at a whim of an administration they can suddenly be deported? Is that what you call a "golden ticket"????. Well Obama set the tone NO? By making this an EXECUTIVE ACTION and not a LAWFUL action? It was not run through the House or Congress? So it was a NICE gesture by Obama, that no one thought Trump would get elected and in his powers to PULL an executive action, If this was congressional law trump would have NO power and only the whim of the people can make this discussion.... Lots and lots of broken blocks for this situation.

. right.. and neither WILL THEY. They CAN'T dictate the law. And its absurd that you think DACA kids can "demand" anything. Agreed.... I retract.... but they are still here illegally and if DACA is PULLED in entirety, they state they will stay, so Now we have 800,000 Illegals where our government must choose to locate and deport...

Under current law.. no they don't. I would like you to confirm with me as I have provided USCIS info and options USCIS info is the immigration program. They DO have the option UNDER the CURRENT Deferment. NOT immigration law. The Deferment, protects them from the STANDARD illegal immigration clause....



Great.. provide evidence please. I cant again its opinion..... NOT facts.... but I am also being realistic...can YOU honestly say none are committing additional crimes??? or Abusing the system.
[/COLOR


Well lets see.. you already agree that my stance on the injustice is correct. I do Agree the you kids with NO options are somewhat of an Injustice.... the ADULTS 21-35 well... they are adults now....slinging around DACA kids, when really 16 and younger make up 0.5% of all DACA applicants 28% make up 16-20 years of age...... that leaves 70% over the age of 21........

So my stance will be cheaper, more effective, give justice to these kids, AND actually decrease or stop illegal immigration. Your stance is to Let them all in correct?

your position will do nothing to stop illegal immigration.. in fact.. push 800,000 people back into the shadows. Cost the country way more economically and in our government budget.

MMM well we know all 800,000 we just knock on the door and give em a ticket LOL, IM kidding all...... pushing that aside... I think you and I can come to a middle ground... Of course it really comes up to Congress or if the president exercises his Executive power.

 

[Exactice]

You need to read it. Yep.. they can apply.. and are STILL SUBJECT TO THE LAW ON ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.. they still need to leave the country for 10 years depending on how long they have been here illegally. they simply don't have to fear being DEPORTED.. but to legally immigrate.. they would need to have a sponsor, or need asylum AND LEAVE THE COUNTRY FOR up to10 YEARS .

Without enlarging text, I wonder if we can get a consensus. YES they are subject to LEGAL immigration Law. Correct. But while they are here as DACA recipients, they do NOT fear deportation. With that, if they TRIED to file for one of the LEGAL immigration VISA, you are saying during their 2 year extendable periods, they would have to leave the COUNTRY? and THAT for 10 years? Are you sure about that? Meaning a 26 year old DACA recipient marries a United States Citizen... the citizen can petition for K3 visa you are saying if approved the DACA needs to leave the country for 10 years before being eligible? This applies to all 4 VISA options? NO if the VISA is approved they get an Adjustment of STATUS in the normal time frame.....they dont WAIT 10 years.....or DO they? Please confirm This goes for any Sponsored VISA, WORK Sponsored Visa, U VISA or asylum/refugee status....SPECIFIC.


Besides the fact that most of them don't have any way to be sponsored, or qualify for asylum. That I do understand, and my break out point is to break the DACA up, 30% are 20 years and younger,
THESE should get some priority, due to the limitation of sponsorship. The other 70% that are "ADULTS" 21 years or older..... well sorry..... if the arent working or have a JOB sponsor, NOR a legitimate US citizen sponsor.... well get in line?



I did.. you just don't understand what it means. All Obama can do in an executive order is change how he is going to enforce the law.. he cannot CHANGE immigration law. In Daca.. he allowed kids to come out of the shadows AND NOT BE DEPORTED. Correct.....I agree.... That is the point, SO OBAMA DID NOT CHANGE ANY LAWS.... that means regardless they broke laws and are subject to the laws.... but with the temporary deferment it allows them to stay in COUNTRY while trying to find a suitable visa. Trump is removing the deferment...or NOT allowing its renewal... in no way is that racist or bigot etc... its his executive privilege same as OBAMA.

It doesn;t change existing immigration law.

IF "bama".. was capable of " providing a separate line/option to become a citizen... then the DACA problem would not exist.. as all these kids would be citizens already.

I am not sure how you are not seeing this..... 22 year old that was snuck into american is living and breathing in America. 22 year old in Australia, is IN Australia waiting for their VISA to be approved. The same VISA that the DACA recipient can legally apply for BE it K1,K3 Sponsor Visa, or H1 J1 work Visa. The 22 that was snuck in is enjoying the fruits of America "per say" while the Australian is still waiting for their approval to enter the country. If that is NOT by passing a line... than I am not sure what it is?

 

[jaeger19]

Hey WE are starting to Agree!
LOL, Yes Lets agree the DACA "KIDS" and I say DACA "KIDS 20 years and younger, are allowed to stay through vetting, and if they are good kids let them work it out HERE. Those 21 years and older are ADULTS not kids...if they dont FIT the current Immigration Laws.... then they need to leave and re apply. As for Enforcing EXISTING laws, I am TOTALLY in agree with you!

Except 21 years and older is still not justice.

Well Obama set the tone NO? By making this an EXECUTIVE ACTION and not a LAWFUL action?

Actually its a lawful action of the president as it deals with enforcement.. which is his purview.. its why they have executive orders.. but its not a change of law as you try to claim.. its not a golden ticket.

So it was a NICE gesture by Obama, that no one thought Trump would get elected and in his powers to PULL an executive action

Actually.. I think no on figured that Congress would be stagnate on the immigration issue and would not have been able to put together a bipartisan deal on immigration. I suppose no one thought ANY future president would be a complete A hole and start deporting these kids OR adults that have grown up here in America.. rather than pressure Congress to resolve the issue with a change in immigration law.

I would like you to confirm with me as I have provided USCIS info and options USCIS info is the immigration program. They DO have the option UNDER the CURRENT Deferment. NOT immigration law. The Deferment, protects them from the STANDARD illegal immigration clause....

Only from deportation.. which is an enforcement action.

do Agree the you kids with NO options are somewhat of an Injustice.... the ADULTS 21-35 well... they are adults now....slinging around DACA kids, when really 16 and younger make up 0.5% of all DACA applicants 28% make up 16-20 years of age...... that leaves 70% over the age of 21........

Right.. because of Congress inability to resolve the issue.

What nationality are you? Lets say you are of Swedish descent.. I assume you are over 21. Lets simply deport you to Sweden.. (the country of your origin).. and see how you do.

So you are 25 years old.. don't speak Swedish well, can't right it, can't read it. and you are being dropped into a country that really doesn;t want you... think about it..

Why do you feel the need to punish these people?

 

[jaeger19]

Please confirm This goes for any Sponsored VISA, WORK Sponsored Visa, U VISA or asylum/refugee status....SPECIFIC.

According to the link that I provided.. all existing immigration laws still apply to the DACA.. which makes sense since the executive branch cannot change the law. The difference is that they do not enforce the deportation if they have met the requirements of DACA.

but with the temporary deferment it allows them to stay in COUNTRY while trying to find a suitable visa.

And according to the law.. they cannot remain in country in order to get said visa.

that's the pickle that DACA people are in.

22 year old that was snuck into american is living and breathing in America. 22 year old in Australia, is IN Australia waiting for their VISA to be approved.

Right.. the 22 year old who GREW UP IN AMERICA.. is living and breathing in America. the 22 year old that grew up in Australia is living and breathing in Australia..

Now.. what if that person that grew up in Australia.. but happens to be of Libyan descent.. is expected at 22 to go to Libya and spend up to 10 years waiting for approval?

 

[Exactice]

Except 21 years and older is still not justice. To the Moral degree, I agree... I guess... again my opinion... and my will does not see why, ALL should get amnesty.....
More so when we use 16 year old KID or DACA kids. its misleading when 30% are "Kids"......

Actually its a lawful action of the president as it deals with enforcement.. which is his purview.. its why they have executive orders.. but its not a change of law as you try to claim.. its not a golden ticket. Fair enough..... I still dont get why my term golden ticket is used so literal LOL HAHAAH But all good.. its just an example of term.



Actually.. I think no on figured that Congress would be stagnate on the immigration issue and would not have been able to put together a bipartisan deal on immigration. I suppose no one thought ANY future president would be a complete A hole and start deporting these kids OR adults that have grown up here in America.. rather than pressure Congress to resolve the issue with a change in immigration law. As the job description states he enforces laws enacted by congress... to call him an A hole sorta shows your bias to Trump Regardless if I agree,disagree, like or not like him... He is NOT violating anything and only enforcing existing laws?

Only from deportation.. which is an enforcement action. RIGHT, which is what we are discussing. If again we treated them Like an illegal they would be deported. If they wanted back in then they have to apply through the regular channels, of Diversity, Work, Sponsor, Refugee etc etc. BUT they would DO SO OUT OF THE COUNTRY....currently they can apply while still being in the country without fear of deportation. Another point would be those that DO NOT qualify for DACA protection. if they TRIED to apply for a LEGAL VISA, they WOULD be deported? Right? Meaning DACA does have the protection as agreed not to be deported? But still subject to federal immigration law.



Right.. because of Congress inability to resolve the issue.

What nationality are you? Lets say you are of Swedish descent.. I assume you are over 21. Lets simply deport you to Sweden.. (the country of your origin).. and see how you do.

So you are 25 years old.. don't speak Swedish well, can't right it, can't read it. and you are being dropped into a country that really doesn;t want you... think about it..

Why do you feel the need to punish these people?

Why do you feel like we are "punishing" them? Is enforcement of laws considered a punishment? Again I agree to a moral injustice per say....but whats the point of laws if we dont enforce right?
I get your examples I do..... To me though and again really up to the WILL of the people...... what the final decision is, I just see it as Illegal vs legal immigration. Sorry... I know thats not the answer you want to here... but again thats my Opinion and my personal opinion at that, right or wrong.....

 

[Exactice]

According to the link that I provided.. all existing immigration laws still apply to the DACA.. which makes sense since the executive branch cannot change the law. The difference is that they do not enforce the deportation if they have met the requirements of DACA. YES you are correct, THE QUESTION again I want to verify is.... if they are legally protected under DACA so no deportation, the file a LEGAL Visa, would the get deported under federal and barred for 10 years? Again a DACA recipient, right Now got legally married. ALL legit marriage.... filed for a K3 visa, would that DACA individaul be barred from apply and then deported for 10 years? I dont think so? Now if the are subject to violation of federal immigration law sure.... but again a LEGAL DACA, legal K3 marriage.... would they be barred?



And according to the law.. they cannot remain in country in order to get said visa. Illegals immigrants, YES, What about DACA individuals

that's the pickle that DACA people are in. I guess that is the pickle I am trying to edify? as I am reading it different, ILLEGALS not protected by DACA or DAPA are Barred for 10 years.... But if you are a recipient of DACA or DAPA, you can legally apply without the baring as long as you qualify?



Right.. the 22 year old who GREW UP IN AMERICA.. is living and breathing in America. the 22 year old that grew up in Australia is living and breathing in Australia..

Now.. what if that person that grew up in Australia.. but happens to be of Libyan descent.. is expected at 22 to go to Libya and spend up to 10 years waiting for approval?

Im confused by your example. an Illegal protected under DACA in american can apply for a visa. The same way as a NON citizen applying Outside of the US. an ILLEGAL NOT protected by DACA or DAPA will be barred.

A non citizen from another country, Libya, would apply for X visa? Why would they spend 10 years waiting for approval? Say they met an American citizen on Vacation fell in love and the USC (us citizen) sponsors the Libyan explain why they would wait for 10 years??