Kurds announce deal with Damascus as Turkey pushes deep into Syria

[Mycroft]

Doubt that will happen. Rather, Turkey and Russia will work out a deal so Turkey can continue to buy arms from them.

Well there you go...

If that happens, then Trump was right...let them work it out.

 

[SCrider]

Haven't you noticed? Our right wing posters are unconcerned with the slaughter. Russia is now on both sides of the conflict, working with Turkey and Assad. We're pulling out, leaving the Middle East to Putin. What's next? Estonia, maybe? Russia wants the Baltics back. God knows, our allies can't count on us.

They won't notice until their beloved Israel is completely surrounded by Russian backed troops.

 

[Irredentist]

I've long said that if Pres. Trump sticks to his guns and pulls US troops out of the endless Middle Eastern quagmire, it will be one of the few truly great things he does during his presidency.

Stick to your guns here, Mr. US President. To fight a common enemy, you provided arms to the Kurds. You did not fund their cause to help them wage their wars against the established powers in the region. Their war is not America's war, and they live or die by their own strength. Their blood is on their own heads. You and the people you serve in America owe them nothing.

Get out, Mr. President. Do not listen to the howling voices of "How dare he!" or "He's doing it for Pres. Putin!"

End the quagmire. You promised to in 2016.

If he's deploying more troops to Saudi Arabia then how is he pulling out of the middle east? Seems he's just going from one spot to another.

 

[Airyaman]

Well there you go...

If that happens, then Trump was right...let them work it out.

Yes, Putin thanks Trump for allowing him to gain influence in the Middle East.

 

[Irredentist]

Well there you go...

If that happens, then Trump was right...let them work it out.

Right, and a NATO member moves closer to Russia. I'm sure that will NEVER come back to bite us. The lack of foresight here is astounding.

 

[COTO]

If the Nobel Peace Prize had any legitimacy, Donald Trump would be awarded it immediately.

If he sticks to his guns and doesn't bow to pressure to reverse his decision and/or start up a new quagmire elsewhere.

It would be something you'd only want to award him after the end of his presidency, to make sure he didn't renege or that you weren't embarrassed by some subsequent action, but notwithstanding this, I agree. Despite anything else he's done, Pres. Trump deserves the Nobel Peace Prize for ending the quagmire.

They should give him Pres. Obama's, since for all intents and purposes Pres. Obama was awarded the prize in 2008 for claiming he was going to end the quagmire.

 

[Irredentist]

If he sticks to his guns and doesn't bow to pressure to reverse his decision and/or start up a new quagmire elsewhere.

It would be something you'd only want to award him after the end of his presidency, to make sure he didn't renege or that you weren't embarrassed by some subsequent action, but notwithstanding this, I agree. Despite anything else he's done, Pres. Trump deserves the Nobel Peace Prize for ending the quagmire.

They should give him Pres. Obama's, since for all intents and purposes Pres. Obama was awarded the prize in 2008 for claiming he was going to end the quagmire.

Running away from the war doesn't mean that you ended the quagmire. The war goes on regardless. He doesn't deserve a novel peace prize for that.

 

[COTO]

If he's deploying more troops to Saudi Arabia then how is he pulling out of the middle east? Seems he's just going from one spot to another.

My understanding is that only a small handful of troops--essentially a bare minimum force for logistics--to Saudi Arabia.

If this isn't true and these troops see combat, either in the region's endless civil wars or in operations with nation antagonizing nation (especially Iran), then I condemn him for this. The US has no business whatsoever playing kingmaker and harassing nations in the ME, which includes launching offensives from Saudi Arabia.

 

[Irredentist]

My understanding is that only a small handful of troops--essentially a bare minimum force for logistics--to Saudi Arabia.

If this isn't true and these troops see combat, either in the region's endless civil wars or in operations with nation antagonizing nation (especially Iran), then I condemn him for this. The US has no business whatsoever playing kingmaker and harassing nations in the ME, which includes launching offensives from Saudi Arabia.

It's a bit late for that now, we've already sold Saudi Arabia most of their arsenal, we can't exactly ask for them back. Nor can we take back the Iraq invasion or Syrian intervention, pulling out abruptly now is going to cause major consequences, not just for the region, but worldwide. Acting as if it can't or won't affect us is naive.

 

[COTO]

Running away from the war doesn't mean that you ended the quagmire. The war goes on regardless. He doesn't deserve a novel peace prize for that.

It ends the US role in the quagmire.

If it's a proper pull-out, it also means it won't be a proxy war, with the US flooding the region with weapons via the CIA, which has been the case in the Syria for the past seven years.

The region can never have peace and will never have peace until sufficient blood is shed, an iron-fisted order is established, and resistance to that order is crushed. US involvement in the Middle East for the past 20 years has only amplified and protracted conflicts throughout the region, multiplying the dead, and wasting trillions of dollars in the process.

Pulling out, or "running away" as you call it, ends America's quagmire. The Middle Eastern quagmire will never truly end.

 

[Mycroft]

Yes, Putin thanks Trump for allowing him to gain influence in the Middle East.

Putin already has influence in the Middle East. Obama allowed that.

 

[COTO]

It's a bit late for that now, we've already sold Saudi Arabia most of their arsenal, we can't exactly ask for them back. Nor can we take back the Iraq invasion or Syrian intervention, pulling out abruptly now is going to cause major consequences, not just for the region, but worldwide. Acting as if it can't or won't affect us is naive.

Major consequences, absolutely. But there were always going to be major consequences. That's been the excuse for the past 18 years.

The only thing the world has reaped in the meantime is the equally major consequences of the US staying in the region, which includes, by the way, the genesis of ISIS and the regenesis of Al Qaeda. Not to mention a decade-long flood of refugees into Europe and trillions upon trillions of dollars in debt.

GET OUT, Mr. President. Accept the consequences.

 

[Airyaman]

Putin already has influence in the Middle East. Obama allowed that.

So you love Obama too? Never would have guessed it.

 

[Mycroft]

Right, and a NATO member moves closer to Russia. I'm sure that will NEVER come back to bite us. The lack of foresight here is astounding.

??? What NATO member? Are you talking about Turkey?

Do you think Turkey will move closer to Russia when the Syrian military...supported by Russia...starts killing the Turkish military? Logic would indicate Turkey would do the opposite.

Hey...maybe "NATO" will decide to help Turkey invade Syria because Russia is helping Syria repel Turkey, eh? :roll:

Anyway, whatever those idiots over there decide to do, the US won't be a part of the mess.

 

[Irredentist]

It ends the US role in the quagmire.

If it's a proper pull-out, it also means it won't be a proxy war, with the US flooding the region with weapons via the CIA, which has been the case in the Syria for the past seven years.

The region can never have peace and will never have peace until sufficient blood is shed, an iron-fisted order is established, and resistance to that order is crushed. US involvement in the Middle East for the past 20 years has only amplified and protracted conflicts throughout the region, multiplying the dead, and wasting trillions of dollars in the process.

Pulling out, or "running away" as you call it, ends America's quagmire. The Middle Eastern quagmire will never truly end.

That's an overly simplistic view which lacks proper historical context. The problems of the middle east aren't intractable, they are due primarily to ethnic tensions caused by borders drawn up by Europeans following world war one. These borders carve up the land with no regard for culture or ethnicity, and it's pretty easy to understand why this has caused so much violence in the region. The Kurds being left without a nation is a direct product of this process, as are the Iraqi, Syrian, and Turkish borders currently being fought over. The United States bears partial responsibility for causing this mess, and it is also their responsibility to help fix it. Or you can hide and watch the world burn while awaiting your turn. Up to you.

 

[Mycroft]

So you love Obama too? Never would have guessed it.

I have no idea why you'd think that.

 

[COTO]

The problems of the middle east aren't intractable, they are due primarily to ethnic tensions caused by borders drawn up by Europeans following world war one. These borders carve up the land with no regard for culture or ethnicity, and it's pretty easy to understand why this has caused so much violence in the region. The Kurds being left without a nation is a direct product of this process, as are the Iraqi, Syrian, and Turkish borders currently being fought over.

Agreed on all points except for the very first, that the "problems of the Middle East aren't intractable". They've been ongoing for 1200 years now, fueled by ethnic hatred of generations, showing absolutely no sign of stopping, and this meets my personal standard for intractability.

The United States bears partial responsibility for causing this mess, and it is also their responsibility to help fix it.

The operative word here being "fix". The US has done nothing to fix--or even substantially improve--political stability in the region in the past 20 years. Any reasonable person should have conceded by 2008, or at the very latest, 2012, that of all the things the US was accomplishing in the Middle East, fixing things was most assuredly not one of them.

Or you can hide and watch the world burn while awaiting your turn. Up to you.

I'll do just that. Thank you for the suggestion.

 

[Airyaman]

I have no idea why you'd think that.

You said Obama allowed Putin to gain influence in the ME, just as Trump is allowing him to gain even further influence. Since you did not criticize this move by Trump, and we all know you are a Trump supporter, this must mean that you condone what Obama did as well.

 

[Irredentist]

Agreed on all points except for the very first, that the "problems of the Middle East aren't intractable". They've been ongoing for 1200 years now, fueled by ethnic hatred of generations, showing absolutely no sign of stopping, and this meets my personal standard for intractability.


The operative word here being "fix". The US has done nothing to fix--or even substantially improve--political stability in the region in the past 20 years. Any reasonable person should have conceded by 2008, or at the very latest, 2012, that of all the things the US was accomplishing in the Middle East, fixing things was most assuredly not one of them.


I'll do just that. Thank you for the suggestion.

1200 years? Bull****. 100 years ago Jews Muslims and Christians all lived peacefully together in Jerusalem. These problems aren't thousands of years old, they emerged after the first world war. The principle of self determination was ignored in the middle east by the Allies in favor of colonialism, and this caused the problems we see today. We failed to act then to secure the peace, and if we fail to act now we are only sowing the seeds for a future war to come, one which we will inevitably be dragged into. If you cannot see this with all of history to guide you then I am astonished.

 

[Mycroft]

You said Obama allowed Putin to gain influence in the ME, just as Trump is allowing him to gain even further influence. Since you did not criticize this move by Trump, and we all know you are a Trump supporter, this must mean that you condone what Obama did as well.

Putin hasn't gained "even further influence". They have it...thanks to Obama.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Does this mean that after all the death and destruction, we are returning to how things were before the Obama, Hillary, and McCain Arab Spring.
Trump has engineered a regional balance of power so the United States can get the hell out. Trump has a Kissinger hat too.
It is primarily Europe that will suffer if millions of refugees man boats and make way for France and Germany....let Merkel and Macron cough up some coin for a change...the United States does NOT need ME, the Europeans need it....so let them put THEIR children in harm's way for a change and put boots on the ground in Syria if it is so important to them.
The Syrian War was used as a false pretext for massive migrant invasion of Europe. The actual refugees were not the allowed to migrate to Europe because they were Christian or other minorities. The typical migrant was more likely an ISIS fighter.

Inorite?
It's a common myth that the security of the United States is bound to the security of Europe. I think the myth was started by those idiot globalists who fought WWII instead of just letting Hitler have his way.
Putin can have all of Europe. ( The French will probably surrender just on the rumor. ) Putin can have all of Europe and the US will still be a whole ocean away.
We'll be fine.
What's the worst that could happen?


[/s]

 

[Airyaman]

Putin hasn't gained "even further influence". They have it...thanks to Obama.

So Obama did wrong, Trump did right?

 

[Mycroft]

So Obama did wrong, Trump did right?

Yes. Obama did wrong by keeping the US in Syria.

Yes. Trump did right by removing the US from Syria.

 

[Airyaman]

Yes. Obama did wrong by keeping the US in Syria.

Yes. Trump did right by removing the US from Syria.

No comment on Putin's increasing influence?

 

[Geoist]

Trump's plan is working exactly as he intended.

Trump Towers in Istanbul are safe, for now. So yes, his plan is working as intended.