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Key lawmakers balk at Donald Trump’s wall request

SenorXm/Sirius said:
Is there a body of water in Berlin that the Germans who were trying to escape could have used to get around the wall when they were trying to get out of East Berlin? No, there was not.

Did the Communist East try to stop their people from escaping? Yes..

Does the Mexican government try and stop Mexicans from leaving? No.

Your comparison is apples and oranges.
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Sorry, but it was your assertion that a wall wouldn't work because Cuba tried to keep their people in and that Mexicans could just go around a wall by going over water. It was your apples and oranges comparison I found illogical.

I'll ask you again:

How effective would the Berlin Wall have been had the West Germans also worked to keep the East Germans out?
 
AliHajiSheik said:
How effective would the Berlin Wall have been had the West Germans also worked to keep the East Germans out?
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And again, because the Mexicans will NOT work with us to keep Mexicans out, your question is apples and oranges.

Without a huge armada in the Gulf, a wall won't work.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
And again, because the Mexicans will NOT work with us to keep Mexicans out, your question is apples and oranges.

Without a huge armada in the Gulf, a wall won't work.
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This is your apples and oranges original statment:

" For decades Cubans sailed 90+ miles to get here, and they were fleeing a dictatorship that did everything they could to stop them from coming here. Mexico doesn't lift a finger to stop them, and it's a shorter trip."

In your example, the US did everything to encourage Cubans to flee Cuba in addition to surviving, all they had to do was reach international waters before either the Coast Guard or private groups could come to their aid. Mexico doesn't life a finger to stop them and it is only a shorter trip if there is no effort by the US to stop them, which we know isn't the case.

How many Cubans would have reached the US if the US was trying to keep them out?

How far would someone leaving near Matamoros (Playa Bagdad) have to sail in order to reach the US? How far would they have to sail if there was 1 Coast Guard cutter just off Boca Chica State Park in Texas? It is a long way around and the more ships added, it getting really a really long way to sail. It may be worth it for drug dealers to try submarines, but I doubt it would be profitable for Coyotes to try.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Sorry, Americans on both sides reject paying for the wall.


Your con-man of a candidate promised a bunch of things he could never accomplish because it would make weaker minds vote for him. There was never a scenario where Mexico was going to pay for it, only American tax payers. If you want it, why don't you donate your own money instead of trying to leech it off hard working Americans. Don't blame us because you got conned and it's never going to happen.



Because it's immoral to suck 10's of billions of dollars of hardworking taxpayers' money to waste on something that won't be effective, especially when the pitch was that no Americans would have to pay for it.



Holy ****. Trying to rally people for a wall they don't want by invoking 9/11 emotions. That's both catastrophically stupid and wildly historically inaccurate. You should be ashamed.
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And just as many know that we need the wall

So this is now a political dog fight to the finish for someone

But the other sider should remember all the wet tears they have shedding for the illegal aliens beting "torn" from their families as liberals tell it and sent back to mexico.

Don't forget that your side wants concessions too the we are in a positon to stop
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
And again, because the Mexicans will NOT work with us to keep Mexicans out, your question is apples and oranges.

Without a huge armada in the Gulf, a wall won't work.
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Then will have the armada assuming the mexicans take to the sea as you expect them to.

But we know how they are beating the system now and how to put a stop to that
 
Mac77 said:
And just as many know that we need the wall

So this is now a political dog fight to the finish for someone

But the other sider should remember all the wet tears they have shedding for the illegal aliens beting "torn" from their families as liberals tell it and sent back to mexico.

Don't forget that your side wants concessions too the we are in a positon to stop
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It's ok bud, you got conned. The big orange child in office won't be living up to his promises. You have two options: 1) Donate your paycheck to pay for the wall yourself. 2) Go to Mexico and convince them to pay for it. Americans don't want the wall, and they certainly don't want their hard earned cash taken to build it. Now, keep crying about how it's all the liberals ruining your good time.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
It's ok bud, you got conned.


The big orange child in office won't be living up to his promises. You have two options: 1) Donate your paycheck to pay for the wall yourself. 2) Go to Mexico and convince them to pay for it. Americans don't want the wall, and they certainly don't want their hard earned cash taken to build it. Now, keep crying about how it's all the liberals ruining your good time.
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Taunting me is not going to work

I never cared who payed for the wall and still don't

Not being able to send shoeless mexicans to America to work and send back billions of dollars every year counts as a cost ot mexico in my book.

But either way its not the most important consideration

Protecting the border is what counts
 
AliHajiSheik said:
This is your apples and oranges original statment:

" For decades Cubans sailed 90+ miles to get here, and they were fleeing a dictatorship that did everything they could to stop them from coming here. Mexico doesn't lift a finger to stop them, and it's a shorter trip."

In your example, the US did everything to encourage Cubans to flee Cuba in addition to surviving, all they had to do was reach international waters before either the Coast Guard or private groups could come to their aid. Mexico doesn't life a finger to stop them and it is only a shorter trip if there is no effort by the US to stop them, which we know isn't the case.

How many Cubans would have reached the US if the US was trying to keep them out?

How far would someone leaving near Matamoros (Playa Bagdad) have to sail in order to reach the US? How far would they have to sail if there was 1 Coast Guard cutter just off Boca Chica State Park in Texas? It is a long way around and the more ships added, it getting really a really long way to sail. It may be worth it for drug dealers to try submarines, but I doubt it would be profitable for Coyotes to try.
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I'm not going to go back and forth on this all day.

Your East/West German example is a piss poor one because the Mexicans will in NO WAY cooperate with us on trying to stop their people from coming here. Hell, many, MANY Americans will openly help them, and NO I don't men just those evil liberals. I mean businesses.

Google it. There's many examples of businesses, and REPUBLICAN politicians who don't want to stop the flow of immigrants. They say 1 thing but the reality is they want open borders, even in very red states like Texas.
 
Mac77 said:
Taunting me is not going to work

I never cared who payed for the wall and still don't

Not being able to send shoeless mexicans to America to work and send back billions of dollars every year counts as a cost ot mexico in my book.

But either way its not the most important consideration

Protecting the border is what counts
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To YOU. If you can't convince a majority of Americans or their representatives in congress, it's completely irrelevant what you want.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
I'm not going to go back and forth on this all day.

Your East/West German example is a piss poor one because the Mexicans will in NO WAY cooperate with us on trying to stop their people from coming here. Hell, many, MANY Americans will openly help them, and NO I don't men just those evil liberals. I mean businesses.

Google it. There's many examples of businesses, and REPUBLICAN politicians who don't want to stop the flow of immigrants. They say 1 thing but the reality is they want open borders, even in very red states like Texas.
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A majority of Texans DO NOT want open borders with mexico.

Many perhaps for cheap labor or personal reasons but not most
 
Mac77 said:
Then will have the armada assuming the mexicans take to the sea as you expect them to.

But we know how they are beating the system now and how to put a stop to that
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Assuming? Yeah, they will.. Pretending they won't is naive and wishful thinking. Just like Trump is being naive and foolish because he is proposing CUTTING the Coast Guard's budget by over $1 billion.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
To YOU. If you can't convince a majority of Americans or their representatives in congress, it's completely irrelevant what you want.
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You forget that trump can do a great deal on his own without any new laws from the republican quislings in congress

I hope congress comes to its senses while there is still time but if not thats too bad for America and the American people
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Assuming? Yeah, they will.. Pretending they won't is naive and wishful thinking. Just like Trump is being naive and foolish because he is proposing CUTTING the Coast Guard's budget by over $1 billion.
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Don't bet on that

A drug runner can pack a fast boat with millions of dollars in drugs and maybe succeed with get enough through to be profitable.

But shoeless mexicans take up too much room and are worth too little to make good business sense
 
Mac77 said:
A majority of Texans DO NOT want open borders with mexico.

Many perhaps for cheap labor or personal reasons but not most
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Bull.

Texas can stop it tomorrow if they really wanted to. But they are a BUSINESS friendly State, and BUSINESSES love cheap labor.

I'm not surprised Cons believe otherwise, voting for Trump has proven Cons are easily fooled. For decades the GOP has put 100% of the blame for illegals in this country on the Dems, even though for those decades the very, very business friendly GOP has, to keep businesses happy, looked the other way. Business lobbyists have paid MILLIONS to both parties to keep the borders open. The GOP has been just as guilty.

And if you think a billionaire businessman who has used cheap labor all his business life is going to change things? Well, like I said you guys are easily fooled.
 
Mac77 said:
You forget that trump can do a great deal on his own without any new laws from the republican quislings in congress

I hope congress comes to its senses while there is still time but if not thats too bad for America and the American people
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I know trump wants to cut the coast guardf budget and that would be a mistake.

But errors in judgement like that are easily corrected
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Bull.

Texas can stop it tomorrow if they really wanted to. But they are a BUSINESS friendly State, and BUSINESSES love cheap labor.

I'm not surprised Cons believe otherwise, voting for Trump has proven Cons are easily fooled. For decades the GOP has put 100% of the blame for illegals in this country on the Dems, even though for those decades the very, very business friendly GOP has, to keep businesses happy, looked the other way. Business lobbyists have paid MILLIONS to both parties to keep the borders open. The GOP has been just as guilty.

And if you think a billionaire businessman who has used cheap labor all his business life is going to change things? Well, like I said you guys are easily fooled.
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Texas is spending billions of state budget money to patrol the border.

But it should be the feds doing that job instead of Texas
 
Risky Thicket said:
As highlighted by the pro-science march yesterday Trump and Company do not use, are not interested in, do not want research and evidenced based data. That certainly applies to the building a wall. Trump and his followers are not interested in building a wall because studies have determined it to be the best solution. In fact as with all Trump brain farts even the problem is not clearly defined.

Earlier in the thread a Trumper said that the wall will stop tens of millions of illegals coming into the US. Where is the data that supports such a belief? And what does the research say about the downside of building a wall?

Trump's Wall would be a monument to Trump's monumental narcissism, bigotry and stupidity.
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I was going to post some thoughts on this - but yours were perfection. Well done and ditto.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Bull.

Texas can stop it tomorrow if they really wanted to. But they are a BUSINESS friendly State, and BUSINESSES love cheap labor.

I'm not surprised Cons believe otherwise, voting for Trump has proven Cons are easily fooled. For decades the GOP has put 100% of the blame for illegals in this country on the Dems, even though for those decades the very, very business friendly GOP has, to keep businesses happy, looked the other way. Business lobbyists have paid MILLIONS to both parties to keep the borders open. The GOP has been just as guilty.


And if you think a billionaire businessman who has used cheap labor all his business life is going to change things?

Well, like I said you guys are easily fooled.
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This is really personal with you isn't ti?

You hate trump and you are bitter that enough Americans voted for him over your objections.

But the wall is good for America even if it is bad for your ego
 
Mac77 said:
Texas is spending billions of state budget money to patrol the border.

But it should be the feds doing that job instead of Texas
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I'm not talking about just patrolling the borders. You want to stop hiring illegals, then go after the people hiring them. The BUSINESSES. That includes the moms and pops who hire the illegal nannies. The illegals mowing their lawns. The subcontractors who hire illegals to clean the bathrooms in the government building? The restaurants. Well, the list in endless.

Go a head Texas start clamping down on the businesses and everyday people who hire illegal house-workers and landscapers. lol You'd have 1/2 of the population of Texas in jail.
 
Starts at 0:50...(it's LOUD at first)...



Another promise of his that goes bye bye.

What a buffoon.



Once again, I have ZERO loyalty to any political party or movement.
 
Mac77 said:
This is really personal with you isn't ti?

You hate trump and you are bitter that enough Americans voted for him over your objections.

But the wall is good for America even if it is bad for your ego
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Is it possible that the wall is NOT good for America?

There are those of us that are very much against illegal immigration, yet see the wall as nothing more than a boondoggle and useless money pit, and that it only appeals to people who struggle with deeper solutions. If you really want to stem the flow of illegal immigrants all we need to do is enforce the laws we already have and take away the incentives for why they want to come here illegally to begin with. If there's absolutely nothing in the way of benefits luring them, then there's no reason to come.
 
Mac77 said:
This is really personal with you isn't ti?

You hate trump and you are bitter that enough Americans voted for him over your objections.

But the wall is good for America even if it is bad for your ego
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I've lived in NY all my life. I've known about Trump fpr over 30 years. He's a conman. He only cares about Donald Trump and his wealth. Nothing else.

I've seen him Con both NY state and New Jersey out of 10's of millions. He's conned many other businesses and people. He's been sued for it countless times.

If you think I'm being 'personal' by saying he fooled and conned people to vote for him. Then fine, that it personal.. I don't care. But I'm just pointing out the man's track record. He's a conman. Period.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
I'm not talking about just patrolling the borders. You want to stop hiring illegals, then go after the people hiring them. The BUSINESSES. That includes the moms and pops who hire the illegal nannies. The illegals mowing their lawns. The subcontractors who hire illegals to clean the bathrooms in the government building? The restaurants. Well, the list in endless.

Go a head Texas start clamping down on the businesses and everyday people who hire illegal house-workers and landscapers. lol You'd have 1/2 of the population of Texas in jail.
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Yes, if you want progress you need to equally focus on the Americans that perpetuate the problem.
 
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