Justice Dept. to reduce sentencing recommendation for Trump associate Roger Stone, official says, af

[uptower]

Barr was right..I said that here a few days ago...I wanna hear you tell me that I got this right, that one time at least I am right.

I am not at all sure that you can manage.

THIS IS A TEST

Barr was wrong to direct his prosecutors to seek a reduced sentence on Trump's behalf.

He was 'right' that the president overstepped. He was 'wrong' because frankly he didn't mean it, he's just trying to have it both ways because he still did what the president wanted.

Trump and Barr have failed the 'test' again.

 

[Oborosen]

Nope, instead he did the president's bidding apparently. Just like the GOP led senate 'rebuked' the president for his conduct in Ukraine but did not convict. They're letting him have his way while throwing decency a bone by admitting what he's doing is wrong.

There has been no debate at the top about whether the president is behaving unethically or overreaching lately, only what to do about it. Think on that.

Okay, thought about it and I really don't care what your opinion, nor their opinions are on the matter.

If they want to be upset that he's doing something they don't like. Then so be it, but that gives neither of you the right to make such a judgment and then throw up your hands and not do anything. Only to keep crying about the damn issue for days on end.

Hell, they couldn't even prove that the man did anything wrong before and they're still far too short on doing that now. So you're still getting all bent out of shape over nothing.

 

[American]

The recommendation follows established sentencing guidelines. You may find them unfair and overly punitive, but that argument cannot be selectively applied in the case of Trump's friend. It applies to everyone or no one. Its called being treated equally under the law.

Considering how dead wrong the entire investigation went, there's no reason to believe that the sentencing was done above board.

 

[MTAtech]

Which is trying to soften the blow to the die hard Trump haters from this sentence:

he report is very clear that Mueller’s investigation did not establish that the Trump campaign criminally conspired on illegal Russian election interference, or that it coordinated with Russia through either an active or tacit agreement

You conveniently ignored the next paragraph:
"But the report, combined with other publicly known facts — that Donald Trump Jr. arranged a meeting with the express purpose of obtaining Russian “dirt” on Clinton, and that Papadopoulos was offered similar dirt from a Russian agent, among others — paints a damning picture of the campaign. It was both actively seeking to cultivate a relationship with the Russian government and willing to work with it to acquire damaging information about its political opponents. That willingness included explicitly sharing information with or soliciting information from Russian operatives."

 

[OpportunityCost]

You conveniently ignored the next paragraph:
"But the report, combined with other publicly known facts — that Donald Trump Jr. arranged a meeting with the express purpose of obtaining Russian “dirt” on Clinton, and that Papadopoulos was offered similar dirt from a Russian agent, among others — paints a damning picture of the campaign. It was both actively seeking to cultivate a relationship with the Russian government and willing to work with it to acquire damaging information about its political opponents. That willingness included explicitly sharing information with or soliciting information from Russian operatives."

It may come as a surprise to you, but those paragraphs are contradictory. That's what's wrong with speculation rather than just reading the conclusions.

 

[uptower]

If they want to be upset that he's doing something they don't like. Then so be it, but that gives neither of you the right to make such a judgment and then throw up your hands and not do anything. Only to keep crying about the damn issue for days on end.

Um, this is an Internet forum. All we can do here is talk about it. That’s kinda what it’s for...

 

[MTAtech]

It may come as a surprise to you, but those paragraphs are contradictory. That's what's wrong with speculation rather than just reading the conclusions.

Nonsense. It's perfectly consistent that Trump committed serious offenses without those offenses rising to the level of crimes.

 

[Oborosen]

Um, this is an Internet forum. All we can do here is talk about it. That’s kinda what it’s for...

Then just talk, and don't act like reality will somehow bend to your will. Simply for the fact that you've found a group of people that agree with you.

 

[uptower]

Then just talk, and don't act like reality will somehow bend to your will. Simply for the fact that you've found a group of people that agree with you.

It's clear we have different sets of reality. You delight in calling established fact or expertise 'opinion' but what if the real problem is you're the 'opinionated' one?

Because rather than talk about the case you are still far too eager to call names, shoot the messenger, blame it on the poster and their 'opinion'.

Projection much?

 

[Oborosen]

It's clear we have different sets of reality. You delight in calling established fact or expertise 'opinion' but what if the real problem is you're the 'opinionated' one?

Because rather than talk about the case you are still far too eager to call names, shoot the messenger, blame it on the poster and their 'opinion'.

Projection much?

Yes, that is a good deal of projection from your end of the table. But it's something that I've gotten used to after all this time.

I'm pointing out how you're always saying that your position is the truth and just rampantly denying even a chance for debate. Only throwing the same tired insults when someone pokes holes in said position.

It's not an established fact, it's just an opinion at this point.

Were anything considering Trump's actions that you've stated in the last two months, actually a fact. Trump would not still be president.

 

[uptower]

Were anything considering Trump's actions that you've stated in the last two months, actually a fact. Trump would not still be president.

Unless he had a compliant GOP majority senate, terrified of upsetting his base, who believe that anything he does is okay and there's no pwoof he has ever done wrong. Since the only mechanism to remove him is an impartial senate it sorta hinges on that.

 

[Oborosen]

Unless he had a compliant GOP majority senate, terrified of upsetting his base, who believe that anything he does is okay and there's no pwoof he has ever done wrong. Since the only mechanism to remove him is an impartial senate it sorta hinges on that.

With nothing but your assumption to go on and no real indication of it being correct.

Compliance when wrongdoing was not proven, is not a fault.

His base requiring proof of wrong doing and then deciding to stand with him when it's not been supplied, is not a fault either.

The mechanism to remove him also required an impartial house. But seeing as the democrats were threatening their own people just to ensure he was impeached under such flimsy pretenses. I'd say that this mechanism was being abuse right from the start. Had they not held the majority, we would've never seen a trial actually take place.

 

[uptower]

The mechanism to remove him also required an impartial house. But seeing as the democrats were threatening their own people just to ensure he was impeached under such flimsy pretenses. I'd say that this mechanism was being abuse right from the start. Had they not held the majority, we would've never seen a trial actually take place.

yeah, no kidding on that. With the GOP in charge, Putin would be president by now, cut out the middle man.

 

[Oborosen]

yeah, no kidding on that. With the GOP in charge, Putin would be president by now, cut out the middle man.

Another assumption that is as far off base, as one can get.

 

[uptower]

Another assumption that is as far off base, as one can get.

Do you think I actually believe Putin would actually be actual president of the United States? Is that where we’re at now? Taking a bit of flippant hyperbole and pretending that’s the argument?

The point I was making that as long as the GOP holds the senate they will tolerate a good deal of meddling in the election. This has been demonstrated by them letting Trump off the hook over Ukraine and by blocking anti election tampering bills.

 

[Oborosen]

Do you think I actually believe Putin would actually be actual president of the United States? Is that where we’re at now? Taking a bit of flippant hyperbole and pretending that’s the argument?

The point I was making that as long as the GOP holds the senate they will tolerate a good deal of meddling in the election. This has been demonstrated by them letting Trump off the hook over Ukraine and by blocking anti election tampering bills.

Those are not proof of anything and when it comes to taking a bit of flippant, or hyperbolic statements into the argument. Such is done against Trump all the time.

His jokes and personal stroking are touted as some sort of be all end all truth, while it only makes those against him look desperate.

I was merely playing by the same rules. Seeing as the left gets getting a pass in doing so.

 

[Grand Mal]

Do you think I actually believe Putin would actually be actual president of the United States? Is that where we’re at now? Taking a bit of flippant hyperbole and pretending that’s the argument?

The point I was making that as long as the GOP holds the senate they will tolerate a good deal of meddling in the election. This has been demonstrated by them letting Trump off the hook over Ukraine and by blocking anti election tampering bills.

Trump's on record saying he would look at any dirt on a political opponent brought to him by a foreign government. As soon as the Democrats narrow the field one or two foreign intelligence agencies will kick into gear, digging and manufacturing dirt.

ABC interview: Trump says he would accept foreign dirt on rivals - CNNPolitics

 

[Conservative]

Nope, instead he did the president's bidding apparently. Just like the GOP led senate 'rebuked' the president for his conduct in Ukraine but did not convict. They're letting him have his way while throwing decency a bone by admitting what he's doing is wrong.

There has been no debate at the top about whether the president is behaving unethically or overreaching lately, only what to do about it. Think on that.

Let's face it, Ukraine, Stone, Trump's taxes are only relevant to people like you who enjoy the politics of personal destruction. None of those issues would have resonated with you were it not for Trump. The 24/7 non stop Trump bashing has occurred for the last three years all diverting from the failures of liberalism and from the clowns running for the Democratic Nomination. You have lost the issues debt as the Average American voted for Trump knowing his background and past and will vote for him again in 2020 because of the results generated. results matter not your anti Trump rhetoric

 

[Conservative]

Trump's on record saying he would look at any dirt on a political opponent brought to him by a foreign government. As soon as the Democrats narrow the field one or two foreign intelligence agencies will kick into gear, digging and manufacturing dirt.

ABC interview: Trump says he would accept foreign dirt on rivals - CNNPolitics

OMG, the horror of it all, Trump doing what no other President in history hasn't done. The Democratic Party, the author of the "October Surprise" isn't immune to the same claims over and over again about Trump. None of those claims matter but results do and the results generated trump the 24/7 negativity on the Trump personality

Don't believe the American people will take the risk of undoing the results Trump has generated the past three years, economic dollar growth, U-6 unemployment rate, African and Hispanic Unemployment, record stock market. strong consumer confidence, and a 56% approval rating on the economy.

Foreigners like Canadians bashing Trump are doing this for their own self interest just like the American people always support theirs. Personality issues doesn't trump actual results

 

[prometeus]

Let's face it, Ukraine, Stone, Trump's taxes are only relevant to people like you who enjoy the politics of personal destruction.

No, they are important to anyone with the slightest modicum of intellect and integrity. Unlike you, people who maintain such basic tenets of decency do see that damage done by Trump and his cronies while you and people like you prefer to take the 30 pieces of silver regardless how it is obtained or what you have to do for them. The ends do not justify the means in a just society and such methods are not acceptable to honest and intelligent people.

 

[Conservative]

No, they are important to anyone with the slightest modicum of intellect and integrity. Unlike you, people who maintain such basic tenets of decency do see that damage done by Trump and his cronies while you and people like you prefer to take the 30 pieces of silver regardless how it is obtained or what you have to do for them. The ends do not justify the means in a just society and such methods are not acceptable to honest and intelligent people.

What damage has been done by Trump? Looks to me like the American people get it, when will you. Liberals like you create dependence with all that "spending in the name of compassion" you promote. Stave and local governments now are thriving due to the Trump economy and still you want to focus on personality issues, this is why liberals have no credibility and don't deserve to back in the WH

Your party wins elections by promoting the politics of personal destruction and keeping people dependent so they don't "bite the hand that feeds them" in state and local elections. Your double standards are on full display as you cherry pick issues simply to attack Trump. Tell us what Democratic Candidate is going to do a better job than Trump has done for the American People? Roger Stone wouldn't even be an issue were it not for Trump. You people better realize what really is important for this country and it isn't liberalism

 

[prometeus]

What damage has been done by Trump?

Forsaking all decency and morality, the corruption, the appointment of the most incompetent and corrupt people, his trade war that made the bailout of farmers necessary, the new high deficit the constant lies, the damage to the reputation and to the alliances of our nation and the list goes on and on, but such tenets of intellect, competence and integrity are not what you care about. You care about your 30 pieces of silver and for that you would sell not only your soul but anything or anybody you can.

Looks to me like the American people get it

Of course it looks that way to you for the same reasons I wrote above.

Liberals like you

You make moronic assumptions again.

create dependence with all that "spending in the name of compassion" you promote.

And now you have to lie and make up crap to defend the contemptible position you chose. Where have I advocated any spending for anything?

Your party

And again you are making a moronic assumption.

 

[Grand Mal]

OMG, the horror of it all, Trump doing what no other President in history hasn't done. The Democratic Party, the author of the "October Surprise" isn't immune to the same claims over and over again about Trump. None of those claims matter but results do and the results generated trump the 24/7 negativity on the Trump personality

Don't believe the American people will take the risk of undoing the results Trump has generated the past three years, economic dollar growth, U-6 unemployment rate, African and Hispanic Unemployment, record stock market. strong consumer confidence, and a 56% approval rating on the economy.

Foreigners like Canadians bashing Trump are doing this for their own self interest just like the American people always support theirs. Personality issues doesn't trump actual results

Fine. Elect the bastard again. Kiss America as designed by your sainted Founding Fathers goodbye. He's already interfered with the Judicial branch and the Legislative branch. The only ones who can't see the risks, can't see how fragile your nation has become in four short years, are the ones who carried their cups back to the Kool-Aide dispenser and said, "Please sir, I'd like some more!"

 

[Grand Mal]

What damage has been done by Trump? Looks to me like the American people get it, when will you. Liberals like you create dependence with all that "spending in the name of compassion" you promote. Stave and local governments now are thriving due to the Trump economy and still you want to focus on personality issues, this is why liberals have no credibility and don't deserve to back in the WH

Your party wins elections by promoting the politics of personal destruction and keeping people dependent so they don't "bite the hand that feeds them" in state and local elections. Your double standards are on full display as you cherry pick issues simply to attack Trump. Tell us what Democratic Candidate is going to do a better job than Trump has done for the American People? Roger Stone wouldn't even be an issue were it not for Trump. You people better realize what really is important for this country and it isn't liberalism

When did the American people 'get it'? When they voted for Clinton? When they elected a Democratic House?
You guys need to stop citing the will of the people. The people elected Clinton, but the States elected Trump. The people impeached him but the States let him walk. This kind of dysfunction needs to be addressed by well-meaning Americans, not exacerbated and exploited by cynical self-serving bastards.

 

[Conservative]

Fine. Elect the bastard again. Kiss America as designed by your sainted Founding Fathers goodbye. He's already interfered with the Judicial branch and the Legislative branch. The only ones who can't see the risks, can't see how fragile your nation has become in four short years, are the ones who carried their cups back to the Kool-Aide dispenser and said, "Please sir, I'd like some more!"

you really have no idea what our Founders Created and it wasn't a 4.8 TRILLION DOLLAR GOVT!! You people are so full of yourself you cannot grasp how great this country is and how we have protected your asses for years. Trump hasn't destroyed anything except your ideology. America was built on gov't closest to the people which would be state and local with a small central gov't. Trump's economic policies have restored that gov't as states and local governments are now better off financially than any time in recent memory boosted by sales and property tax revenue that comes from personal spending.

The only risk I see is people like you now being forced to face the cost of liberalism and spend more on your own defense. Americans actually get it, you foreigners who rely on massive gov't spending for your GDP never will