Jesus was married...[W:379]

[Josie]

Re: Jesus was married...

It is not silly at all. People regularly married then, moreso than now. If he was married he would appear more mortal. If he is married that takes away from him being the Son of God and God Himself. Being attached to mortality (married to a mortal) demeans his significance to the Power of the Church.

Ah ha. Now you're saying what I thought you were getting at from the beginning.

How does being married take away from Him being the Son of God? How does "being attached to mortality" demean His significance?

 

[Bodi]

Re: Jesus was married...

I'm talking about Christology, how our view of Jesus developed through the centuries, and why things like trinitarianism won while Dynamic Monarchianism, Arianism, and other Christologies didn't. It simply doesn't match your narrative about the church needing for Jesus to be God in order to justify themselves or whatever ulterior motive it is you are trying to ascribe to them.

To be more clear, your theory requires that The Church decided that they needed to present Jesus as being divine in order for them to have better control over people and thus they changed his marital status so that they could better present him as divine. But the historical record shows that not only did they NOT need him to be divine, but that theologies which posited he was not divine (or at least not born divine) existed and were part of the church. This wasn't settled for several centuries. Thus it's ridiculous to imagine that the church somehow hid the existence of Jesus' family in a three century long effort to promote his divinity; finally accomplishing it some 400 years later.

Christology deals with the writings of the New and Old Testament. You said that you were not discussing the Bible but of the record of the writings of people who were supporting or condemning the various theologies. To whom are you referring to?

 

[Bodi]

Re: Jesus was married...

That's wildly exaggerated.

Christ is resurrected in all four Gospels and various epistles. It's incredibly redundant.

So show me where the resurrection scriptures have been added or amended in the Gospels? I'll need specifics - which scripture, what exactly was added or amended, and when and by whom?

The Bible says that the Bible is true... so you win.

 

[Bodi]

Re: Jesus was married...

Ah ha. Now you're saying what I thought you were getting at from the beginning.

How does being married take away from Him being the Son of God? How does "being attached to morality" demean His significance?

attached to MORTALITY...

 

[Josie]

Re: Jesus was married...

attached to MORTALITY...

Yes, that's what I meant. Why is that a problem again?

 

[Bodi]

Re: Jesus was married...

Yes, that's what I meant. Why is that a problem again?

Mortal people don't ressurect.

 

[Logicman]

Re: Jesus was married...

The Bible says that the Bible is true... so you win.

So, you can't back up your previous, ill-conceived rant.

Do you ever study these issues before you leap?

 

[Bodi]

Re: Jesus was married...

So, you can't back up your previous, ill-conceived rant.

Do you ever study these issues before you leap?

Of course I can back it up...

 

[Josie]

Re: Jesus was married...

Mortal people don't ressurect.

Many humans were raised from the dead in the Bible.

But back to Jesus --- you're entire premise is that the Catholic church hid the fact that he was actually married so that they could say he was divine. Why does the one act of being married suddenly make him NOT divine?

 

[Bodi]

Re: Jesus was married...

Many humans were raised from the dead in the Bible.

But back to Jesus --- you're entire premise is that the Catholic church hid the fact that he was actually married so that they could say he was divine. Why does the one act of being married suddenly make him NOT divine?

Nothing sudden about it.. It presents problems. Kids? Are they divine? Why would he not have kids if he was married? Why would he not get married in the first place? Was he gay? Most people marry, especially back then.

 

[Josie]

Re: Jesus was married...

Nothing sudden about it.. It presents problems. Kids? Are they divine? Why would he not have kids if he was married? Why would he not get married in the first place? Was he gay? Most people marry, especially back then.

What document discusses Jesus and Mary's children?

He didn't get married because His mission on earth wasn't the same as everyone else's.

But you still didn't answer the question --- you claim the Catholic church conveniently left out the part about him being married to Mary Magdalene because they wanted to present Jesus as being divine. That's your premise, is it not? That means you think the act of being married makes him NOT divine. I'm asking why the act of marriage makes him not divine?

 

[Bodi]

Re: Jesus was married...

He didn't get married because His mission on earth wasn't the same as everyone else's.

But you still didn't answer the question --- you claim the Catholic church conveniently left out the part about him being married to Mary Magdalene because they wanted to present Jesus as being divine. That's your premise, is it not? That means you think the act of being married makes him NOT divine. I'm asking why the act of marriage makes him not divine?

I just said... kids.

What document discusses Jesus and Mary's children?

The Da Vinci Code.

 

[Josie]

Re: Jesus was married...

I just said... kids.



The Da Vinci Code.

The Da Vinci Code ---- the fantasy novel? :lamo

So if Jesus was married with no kids - he could be divine. If he was married with kids -- not divine? I think you're just chasing your tail.

 

[Bodi]

Re: Jesus was married...

The Da Vinci Code ---- the fantasy novel? :lamo

So if Jesus was married with no kids - he could be divine. If he was married with kids -- not divine? I think you're just chasing your tail.

There is not definitive either way. Just because I can't prove it doesn't mean that he was not married nor divine. It is something you either have faith in or not.

My faith is that Christianity, and religion in general, is naive yet comforting for people. It is a safety blanket.

 

[Josie]

Re: Jesus was married...

There is not definitive either way. Just because I can't prove it doesn't mean that he was not married nor divine. It is something you either have faith in or not.

My faith is that Christianity, and religion in general, is naive yet comforting for people. It is a safety blanket.

You, again, didn't answer my question. If He was just married with no kids -- he could still be divine. If he was married with kids -- there's no way he could be divine. That's your argument, right?

 

[Bodi]

Re: Jesus was married...

You, again, didn't answer my question. If He was just married with no kids -- he could still be divine. If he was married with kids -- there's no way he could be divine. That's your argument, right?

No. It isn't.

 

[Josie]

Re: Jesus was married...

No. It isn't.

Okay ---- so what is your argument?

If Jesus was married that means........................ what?

 

[Bodi]

Re: Jesus was married...

Okay ---- so what is your argument?

If Jesus was married that means........................ what?

Jesus WAS married... that is my argument.

 

[Josie]

Re: Jesus was married...

Jesus WAS married... that is my argument.

Yes, I know that's the first part of your argument. Finish it ---- Jesus was married so that proves that...................

 

[Bodi]

Re: Jesus was married...

Yes, I know that's the first part of your argument. Finish it ---- Jesus was married so that proves that...................

It doesn't prove anything. Jesus was married. Makes more sense. Since practically every Jewish man was married the fact that there is no mention of Jesus NOT being married makes it logically prudent to conclude that he was, in fact, married.

 

[Josie]

Re: Jesus was married...

It doesn't prove anything. Jesus was married. Makes more sense. Since practically every Jewish man was married the fact that there is no mention of Jesus NOT being married makes it logically prudent to conclude that he was, in fact, married.

But you've repeatedly in this thread connected Jesus being married to that meaning he's not divine. You've also said the Catholic church hid the "fact" that Jesus was married so that he would seem less mortal.

So you're not just saying --- Hey - I bet he was married. You're saying that his marriage would prove that he wasn't divine.

 

[Bodi]

Re: Jesus was married...

But you've repeatedly in this thread connected Jesus being married to that meaning he's not divine. You've also said the Catholic church hid the "fact" that Jesus was married so that he would seem less mortal.

So you're not just saying --- Hey - I bet he was married. You're saying that his marriage would prove that he wasn't divine.

I think that if it was known he was married it would not be as good of a story to sell that he was divine. I also think that the Catholic Church is hiding the fact that he was married. Since practically every Jewish man was married the fact that there is no mention of Jesus NOT being married makes it logically prudent to conclude that he was, in fact, married.

 

[Josie]

Re: Jesus was married...

I think that if it was known he was married it would not be as good of a story to sell that he was divine.

This is what I don't understand. The NT contains a TON of very human things that Jesus did...

Growing from a fetus into an adult
Eating
Drinking
Sleeping
Showing emotions -- anger, sadness, happiness
Crying
Praying
Being physically and emotionally exhausted
Bleeding
Sweating
Dying

All of those things point to someone being very human. If the Catholic Church had it in their minds that they needed to create a story where their audience without a doubt believed the main character was divine, why on earth would they ONLY omit the "fact" that he was married and leave all of the rest of the very human traits?

 

[Bodi]

Re: Jesus was married...

This is what I don't understand. The NT contains a TON of very human things that Jesus did...

Growing from a fetus into an adult
Eating
Drinking
Sleeping
Showing emotions -- anger, sadness, happiness
Crying
Praying
Being physically and emotionally exhausted
Bleeding
Sweating
Dying

All of those things point to someone being very human. If the Catholic Church had it in their minds that they needed to create a story where their audience without a doubt believed the main character was divine, why on earth would they ONLY omit the "fact" that he was married and leave all of the rest of the very human traits?

The New Testament talks about Jesus as a Fetus?

There is already a precedent for it... servitude of women.

The Church is one of the most sexually oppressive institutions in history and I have no idea why any woman would waste a second with it.

From Eve being the downfall of mankind to keeping women powerless... the Church is pretty horrible to women.

 

[CrabCake]

Re: Jesus was married...

This is what I don't understand. The NT contains a TON of very human things that Jesus did...

Growing from a fetus into an adult
Eating
Drinking
Sleeping
Showing emotions -- anger, sadness, happiness
Crying
Praying
Being physically and emotionally exhausted
Bleeding
Sweating
Dying

All of those things point to someone being very human. If the Catholic Church had it in their minds that they needed to create a story where their audience without a doubt believed the main character was divine, why on earth would they ONLY omit the "fact" that he was married and leave all of the rest of the very human traits?

Good point. If they needed Christ to be purely divine, why did they reject Docetism rather than embracing it? According to Docetist Christologies, Christ was purely divine. Yet this was rejected and declared heretical in the First Council of Nicaea. It seems that if Bodhisattva's view is correct, then the church should have accepted Docetism instead of rejecting it, this would have been the quickest path towards promoting a divine Jesus. Instead, they embraced a complicated and difficult to explain Christology that continues to present problems to this day (trinitarianism).

In their attempt to make sure Christ was considered divine, they rejected Christologies that promoted his absolute divinity and embraced ones that paradoxically attempted to claim he was fully human as well as somehow fully divine.