Jesus is the one true God?

[AntiTheist]

When I was young, I heard it explained that it's like an egg. An egg has three parts, but it's still one egg.

Flawed simile.

What you're saying is that the shell, the yolk and white all are eggs in and of themselves.
Which simply isn't true.

It's a good thing it's probably all hogwash, anyway.

 

[Sherman123]

Moses and God thought otherwise. If that is the case then there would be no need for the sacrificial system.

The vast majority of sacrifices have nothing to do with sin. For example, the pesach korbanot. Further, 'sin offerings' were never the only mechanism of seeking forgiveness for sinning.

 

[RAMOSS]

Unfortunately the desire to view the world as "us vs them" extends even to religions that worship the same God.

It seems that it will extend to different denominations in the same town even. I have heard criticism of the whole 'Steal the sheep' that happens in some smaller towns, where the various churches have a strong effort to get members from other churches. There are many jokes about how small differences can cause one denomination lavel another denomination 'heretics'.

 

[RAMOSS]

A few quick points in response:

1. We don't believe in original sin or eternal damnation (save for the very few and its complicated) so we don't believe in a need for 'salvation'.

2. We don't believe Jesus was the Moshiach because we do not think he fulfilled the prophetic requirements.

Not only that, but the concept of 'who is the messiah' is different.

 

[CrabCake]

Christ has a duelist nature.

Does he prefer swords or pistols?

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Moses and God thought otherwise. If that is the case then there would be no need for the sacrificial system.

There is no need for any sacrifice, period, for a being that is omnscient, omnipotent and omnipresent. Absolutely irrelevant to a being with those qualities.

 

[laska]

It seems that it will extend to different denominations in the same town even. I have heard criticism of the whole 'Steal the sheep' that happens in some smaller towns, where the various churches have a strong effort to get members from other churches. There are many jokes about how small differences can cause one denomination lavel another denomination 'heretics'.

That's the exact scenario that confused the 14 yo Joseph Smith, as each sect claimed to have the truth and the other were heretics, and why after reading James 1:5 he decided to go into a small wooded grove near his house and pray and ask God which of them were right. And Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ visited him and told him they were all wrong, something the young Joseph had never considered.

 

[RAMOSS]

That's the exact scenario that confused the 14 yo Joseph Smith, as each sect claimed to have the truth and the other were heretics, and why after reading James 1:5 he decided to go into a small wooded grove near his house and pray and ask God which of them were right. And Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ visited him and told him they were all wrong, something the young Joseph had never considered.

It seems to me that is exactly what he then did....

 

[laska]

It seems to me that is exactly what he then did....

Not sure what you mean. God told him basically His true Church was not on the earth and Joseph was the prophet He chose to lay the foundation of the latter day kingdom of God as foretold by Daniel the prophet. Logically, there can be a true divinely authorized Chiurch. If you believe in the New Testament, certainly Christ set up such a Church.

 

[RAMOSS]

Not sure what you mean. God told him basically His true Church was not on the earth and Joseph was the prophet He chose to lay the foundation of the latter day kingdom of God as foretold by Daniel the prophet. Logically, there can be a true divinely authorized Chiurch. If you believe in the New Testament, certainly Christ set up such a Church.

Well, he made that claim, and then what he did is he stole sheep from other churches.

 

[SheWolf]

Some Christians, the Trinitarians, do view Christ as God, or, more precisely, part of the triune God. Other Christians, the Unitarians, view Christ as God's son.

The interesting thing to note here is that each faction will accuse the other of not being truly Cristian and not conforming to the Bible. It makes for an entertaining spectacle.

There's no reason to believe either is right. There's a multitude of reasons to celebrate the fact both are probably wrong.

Thanks for explaining this. I knew somebody who went to a Unitarian church, but I didn't know what it meant. Do Quakers also use the trinity?

 

[SheWolf]

A few quick points in response:

1. We don't believe in original sin or eternal damnation (save for the very few and its complicated) so we don't believe in a need for 'salvation'.

2. We don't believe Jesus was the Moshiach because we do not think he fulfilled the prophetic requirements.

Do you think any Jews would worship the Messiah as God? Would the Messiah be God or claim to be God?

 

[AntiTheist]

Thanks for explaining this. I knew somebody who went to a Unitarian church, but I didn't know what it meant. Do Quakers also use the trinity?

I'm not familiar with Quaker doctrine.
The most prominent Unitarian Christian denominations are Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses.

The point I wish to underline is this:
What does it say about a book, the Bible, written in such a way that it lends itself to a multitude of irreconcilable interpretations not just on trivial matters but on the nature of the very God it supposedly emantes from?

Food for thought.

 

[Winchester]

No. I am.

Submit to me, dammit!

Yes Mistress. :lol:

 

[AntiTheist]

The idea that Jesus is God is central to Christianity. Technically, the idea that the Holy Spirit is God should be central to Christianity also, but in practice it only seems to be central to pentecostals.

It is central to Trinitarian Christianity, which is not the whole of Christianity.

 

[ludin]

You man that wonderful sacrifical system through which, say, a life long paedophile gets saved provided he has a last minute death bed conversion and accepts Christ but a loving and caring human being who won't submit himself to the Christian ultimatum won't?

That one?

Such sacrificial system is immoral, indecent and intellectually fraudulent as well.
A great thing that it is also probably imaginary as well.

thanks for your opinion dismissed.

 

[ludin]

The vast majority of sacrifices have nothing to do with sin. For example, the pesach korbanot. Further, 'sin offerings' were never the only mechanism of seeking forgiveness for sinning.

I am sure there is some ceremonial sacrifices however sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin was set down by Moses and his Sons and before that I believe it was Abraham and Aaron who would make sacrifices for the sins of the people.

 

[ludin]

Does he prefer swords or pistols?

From the biblical description swords for the win.

 

[CrabCake]

It is central to Trinitarian Christianity, which is not the whole of Christianity.

There's about 200,000 unitarians in the world; a negligible number of Christians. If you wanted to add Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons to that even though they don't consider themselves part of the Christian community, you might approach 1% of the world's Christian population.

So, sure, the 99%+ of Christians to whom this applies may not be "the whole of Christianity", but they are clearly who people are referring to when they ask questions about what Christians believe.

 

[AntiTheist]

There's about 200,000 unitarians in the world; a negligible number of Christians. If you wanted to add Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons to that even though they don't consider themselves part of the Christian community, you might approach 1% of the world's Christian population.

So, sure, the 99%+ of Christians to whom this applies may not be "the whole of Christianity", but they are clearly who people are referring to when they ask questions about what Christians believe.

That's demonstrably false.

Jehovah's witnesses alone, being Unitarian in the doctrinal sense in which I used the term, or, more precisely, nontrinitarian, are around the 8 million mark.

Additionally, not only do Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves Christians, they view themselves as - surprise, surprise - the one and true Christians. It seems to be a recurring theme among the religion.

Nontrinitarianism includes other denominations besides the Jehovah's Witnesses.

I'm not in the business of decreeing who the real Christians are. Let the Christians bicker among themselves, accuse each other of heresy. Wars have been fought over these theological matters. Thousands and thousands of Christian denominations can't seem to reach the bare minimum of a consensus, on anything really, let alone the nature of God.

 

[AntiTheist]

thanks for your opinion dismissed.

You're missing a comma.
And a point.

 

[ludin]

You're missing a comma.
And a point.

yes you missed my point.
you opinion is dismissed have a nice day.

 

[jmotivator]

I have seen similar threads to this one. I have seen threads asking if Christians believe Jesus is God, the son of God, or a prophet of God. I usually feel when I see those threads, there is not a clear answer on the question of Jesus being God according to the Christian faith.

Well the other day I was flipping through my channel listing and stopped on the 700 Club. A woman said, "I know Jesus is the one true God." Nobody else on the panel appeared bothered by her statement. She declared Jesus is God. That confirmed to me that Christians actually do believe that Jesus is God, and Jesus was God in the flesh on Earth.

If Christians say "Jesus is God," then that seems very clear to me. Am I wrong?

I was actually in a discussion about this the other day with a devout Christian who argues that I am going to hell for not believing that Jesus is the one true God, and because my Catholicism is just idol worship.

That latter point is for another thread, but it doesn't confuse me how a Christian can read the New Testament and see Jesus almost unceasingly speak of himself as the son of God, and pray to God on behalf of sinners, and conclude from that that Jesus is God.

Catholics believe in the Holy Trinity, the father, the son and the holy spirit -- the latter often described as the living love of God and Jesus for humanity -- so we definitely see Jesus and God a different beings.

 

[jmotivator]

I have never heard a Christian say Jesus isn't God. I'm not sure what denomination that would be.

Most of them.

John 3:16 is generally the most famous Christian refrain, and it clearly draws the distinction.

 

[AntiTheist]

yes you missed my point.
you opinion is dismissed have a nice day.

The point is you don't get to dismiss opinions with which you disagree on a public internet forum.
A self-evident point, really, one would have thought.