Israel has a right to self defense

[bomberfox]

That goofy argument was already anticipated and earlier answered.

When it becomes apparent the Nation will fall, the preordered strikes will occur. Do you understand? If even before the border crossings begin, if the leadership believes the Nation will, the Muslim world will be incinerated.

Israel will endure, or the ME falls into the maelstrom, Jew and Muslim alike.

You say this with little evidence. I have no evidence Israel has a scorched earth plan but your dehumanization of muslims is noted.

 

[bomberfox]

Bored machismo is silly.

Eh at least you are being honest about your sillyness.

 

[Quasar44]

Jamesbyoung:

With what military resources would the Arabs of the Middle East overrun the State of Israel? The Israeli state is by far the strongest military power in the Middle East. The only real threat to Israel would be an alliance of some Arab states with a highly militarised non-Arab power like Russia, Turkey or India, none of which seem to have any interest in overrunning the State of Israel.

On the other hand if Israel gets too uppity with nuclear threats, which is also very unlikely with its policy of strategic ambiguity in place, then the world cordons off Israel and it contracts and deteriorates under military blockade. In short your Armageddon/Har-Meggido scenario is a Dr. Strangelove anihilation fantasy and nothing more.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

I can’t picture nice French Montreal having so much Jewish hate .
I know Montreal has or had many biker gangs ??
I never heard of Jews in Montreal ???

I do agree that the West Bank settlers are out of control
Trump already recognized Golan and Jerusalem as Israeli

 

[CJ 2.0]

Quasar44:

Read the rules of this forum as you just broke one. Both my piggy and myself know the rules so you should get more sagacious real quick or you'll run afoul of DP Martial Law.

1947-1949 versus the Arab population of Palestine, 1955 vs Gaza, 1956 in cahoots with France and Bitain vs. UAR/Egypt, 1966 vs Jordan, 1967 vs Egypt and its allies in the Six Day War, 1968 vs Lebanon, 1980 vs. Iraq, 1982 vs. Lebanon, 2006 vs Lebanon, 2008-9 vs. Gaza, 2014 vs. Gaza, presently vs Lebanon and Syria; all these wars and military operations were initiated by the State of Israel as wars of choice. The State of Israel is a highly aggressive regional superpower and regional hegemon. I probably know more about Isreal than you do, but I could be wrong about that.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy

Narrator: He was...


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[CJ 2.0]

That’s what Israel thought in 1973 too. A whole bunch of dead Israelis taught them otherwise.

Your idea that there wouldn’t be a single Israeli left is pretty funny. Plenty of Israelis would survive, and would have to face the consequences of their actions.....like nuking a non military target out of spite.

Funny seeing how mutually assured destruction, while a well accepted doctrine of international relations for 79 years, suddenly becomes beyond the pale when the Jews are involved in part of that mutual assurance.

This whole discussion is silly and academic, but the key takeaway for me is the constant double standards applied to Israel compared to other western nations. How many russian cities were targeted by the Americans in case the Americans were targeted for destruction? How many western cities were targeted by the Russians? How many are targeted by the Chinese?

But whatever rules apply to them, different ones apply to Israel. As usual.

 

[Tigerace117]

Funny seeing how mutually assured destruction, while a well accepted doctrine of international relations for 79 years, suddenly becomes beyond the pale when the Jews are involved in part of that mutual assurance.

This whole discussion is silly and academic, but the key takeaway for me is the constant double standards applied to Israel compared to other western nations. How many russian cities were targeted by the Americans in case the Americans were targeted for destruction? How many western cities were targeted by the Russians? How many are targeted by the Chinese?

But whatever rules apply to them, different ones apply to Israel. As usual.

Funny how deliberately targeting civilian religious targets, such as those in the territory of allies of the United States, has never been acceptable to the United States. Unfortunately for your persecution complex, the US wouldn’t tolerate Christians, Muslims, or anyone else nuking allied soil.

The major difference, of course, is that the US’ nukes were pointed at military and infrastructural targets and the like. We didn’t have ones pointed at Istanbul just as a “**** you” to any and all Orthodox Christians out there.

I know right? Just like when innocent civilians are killed by Israelis, the mean old west actually dares to criticize Israel! How horrifying! :roll:

 

[Quasar44]

Almost all the hate from Israel comes from demonic , vacuous peasants on the left
Yet Jews keep voting left .
Educated yes
Common sense - zero

 

[jamesbyoung]

You say this with little evidence. I have no evidence Israel has a scorched earth plan but your dehumanization of muslims is noted.

No one is dehumanizing Muslims. As long as you respect the nation state of Israel, you all will be fine.

 

[jamesbyoung]

Funny seeing how mutually assured destruction, while a well accepted doctrine of international relations for 79 years, suddenly becomes beyond the pale when the Jews are involved in part of that mutual assurance.

This whole discussion is silly and academic, but the key takeaway for me is the constant double standards applied to Israel compared to other western nations. How many russian cities were targeted by the Americans in case the Americans were targeted for destruction? How many western cities were targeted by the Russians? How many are targeted by the Chinese? But whatever rules apply to them, different ones apply to Israel. As usual.

You clearly don't know what you are talking about. The Jews, like at Masada, would destroy themselves as well as the ME if the Muslim overran their borders to annihilate the Jewish national state.

And, of course, the Muslim nations, since they would no longer exists, would do nothing. UK, FR, IT, SP, and the US would administer the smoldering remains of the ME.

 

[jamesbyoung]

Funny how deliberately targeting civilian religious targets, such as those in the territory of allies of the United States, has never been acceptable to the United States. Unfortunately for your persecution complex, the US wouldn’t tolerate Christians, Muslims, or anyone else nuking allied soil.

The major difference, of course, is that the US’ nukes were pointed at military and infrastructural targets and the like. We didn’t have ones pointed at Istanbul just as a “**** you” to any and all Orthodox Christians out there.

I know right? Just like when innocent civilians are killed by Israelis, the mean old west actually dares to criticize Israel! How horrifying! :roll:

The above statement is nonsense. The Jews will do what the Jews will do. The culture and geography of Islam is held hostage to Israel's continuing existence.

 

[CJ 2.0]

Funny how deliberately targeting civilian religious targets, such as those in the territory of allies of the United States, has never been acceptable to the United States. Unfortunately for your persecution complex, the US wouldn’t tolerate Christians, Muslims, or anyone else nuking allied soil.

The major difference, of course, is that the US’ nukes were pointed at military and infrastructural targets and the like. We didn’t have ones pointed at Istanbul just as a “**** you” to any and all Orthodox Christians out there.

I know right? Just like when innocent civilians are killed by Israelis, the mean old west actually dares to criticize Israel! How horrifying! :roll:

US nukes were targeted at cities. While the US, unlike the original poster, probably does have sensitivities about targeting religious sites, it wasn’t really an issue with the Soviets as they didn’t have any that rise to the level of what we see here. The idea with MAD is to guarantee an automatic level of devastation that would deter attacks in the first place. Since non-democratic leaders generally don’t care about their people but rather about power, second strikes that target the source of that power makes sense. And if the source (and motivation for hostility is religious, I do see how the doctrine would be most effective as a deterrent if they were targeted.

But other than the poster’s musing you have no evidence or indication this is what the Israelis have set up. In fact, the only real targeting of religious and cultural sites in the IP conflict we have seen was the systematic destruction of the Jewish Quarter and use of tombstones as pavers and latrines by the Arabs in and after the war of independence. The Jews ended up rebuilding after the territory was liberated in 67.

So to sum up, western allies firebombed cities into oblivion to defend themselves from genocidal aggression, used civilian targets as part of a carefully calibrated MAD doctrine, but it’s the JEWS you have a problem with doing the same thing facing an even more existential threat than the Americans did from the Nazis.

Typical.

 

[CJ 2.0]

Almost all the hate from Israel comes from demonic , vacuous peasants on the left
Yet Jews keep voting left .
Educated yes
Common sense - zero

I would take issue with the almost all. Jews get it from all sides. Blamed by the right for the left and by the left for the right.

And Israeli Jews don’t really vote left anymore. Got that beaten out of them by the Oslo process and the international community’s obstruction for Palestinian intransigence and rejectionism.

 

[CJ 2.0]

You clearly don't know what you are talking about. The Jews, like at Masada, would destroy themselves as well as the ME if the Muslim overran their borders to annihilate the Jewish national state.

And, of course, the Muslim nations, since they would no longer exists, would do nothing. UK, FR, IT, SP, and the US would administer the smoldering remains of the ME.

They certainly would want to have their enemies think that’s the case, whether they would do it or not.

 

[jamesbyoung]

They certainly would want to have their enemies think that’s the case, whether they would do it or not.

We are facing the moral and spiritual instability of the Muslim inferiority complex vis a vis the Israelis.

 

[Jean-s]

...

So to sum up, western allies firebombed cities into oblivion to defend themselves from genocidal aggression, used civilian targets as part of a carefully calibrated MAD doctrine, but it’s the JEWS you have a problem with doing the same thing facing an even more existential threat than the Americans did from the Nazis.

Typical.

The Anglo-American firebombing of defenseless Dresden in the final months of WWII was intended to terrorize the civilian population locally and nationwide. The war was already lost. Dresden was not a military target. The targeting of civilians as well as women and children refugees fleeing the advancing Red Army had nothing to do with protecting Americans from genocide. It was a war crime. Shortly afterward, the Americans became the only country in world history to use atomic bombs on civilian populations. Let's stick to the facts.

 

[CJ 2.0]

We are facing the moral and spiritual instability of the Muslim inferiority complex vis a vis the Israelis.

Perhaps. But Israeli strength and the strategic vulnerability of the gulf states in particular are creating opportunities. While Obama was wrong about pretty much everything in the ME, his epically wrong take on the Iranians has inadvertently opened up opportunities for reproachment with Iran’s sunni targets.

 

[CJ 2.0]

The Anglo-American firebombing of defenseless Dresden in the final months of WWII was intended to terrorize the civilian population locally and nationwide. The war was already lost. Dresden was not a military target. The targeting of civilians as well as women and children refugees fleeing the advancing Red Army had nothing to do with protecting Americans from genocide. It was a war crime. Shortly afterward, the Americans became the only country in world history to use atomic bombs on civilian populations. Let's stick to the facts.

Huh?

How were we not sticking to the facts. And why are you talking about Dresden? The British had been night bombing area targets for years by that point because they couldn’t get their bombers through during the day, while Dresden was really the culmination of years of total war.

In any event, we still have the radical double standard applied to Israel, even in the world of hypothetical make believe of what Israel might do in a highly unlikely situation.

 

[jamesbyoung]

Perhaps. But Israeli strength and the strategic vulnerability of the gulf states in particular are creating opportunities. While Obama was wrong about pretty much everything in the ME, his epically wrong take on the Iranians has inadvertently opened up opportunities for reproachment with Iran’s sunni targets.

rapprochement? I am not being snarkey, just making sure I understand.

 

[Apocalypse]

Funny how something as trivial as a poster saying that a country has the right to defend its citizens' lives from violent threats creates such a long discussion.

 

[Tigerace117]

The above statement is nonsense. The Jews will do what the Jews will do. The culture and geography of Islam is held hostage to Israel's continuing existence.

An Israel which nukes civilian religious targets, especially those of American allies, should not expect American protection.

 

[Tigerace117]

Funny how something as trivial as a poster saying that a country has the right to defend its citizens' lives from violent threats creates such a long discussion.

Advocating nuking Mecca has a tendency to do that.

It’s very much not a bright idea.

 

[Tigerace117]

The Anglo-American firebombing of defenseless Dresden in the final months of WWII was intended to terrorize the civilian population locally and nationwide. The war was already lost. Dresden was not a military target. The targeting of civilians as well as women and children refugees fleeing the advancing Red Army had nothing to do with protecting Americans from genocide. It was a war crime. Shortly afterward, the Americans became the only country in world history to use atomic bombs on civilian populations. Let's stick to the facts.

That’s actually a myth, invented by the East German government after the war to justify anti-West propaganda, and adopted by Neo Nazis later on. Dresden wasn’t the worst hit city in Germany; furthermore, it was an important industrial hub and a transportation center through which people were still be sent to the death camps.

Not to mention, of course, that both Hiroshima and Nagasaki were military targets.

 

[CJ 2.0]

rapprochement? I am not being snarkey, just making sure I understand.

Yes.


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[CJ 2.0]

An Israel which nukes civilian religious targets, especially those of American allies, should not expect American protection.

A country that was abandoned and destroyed by its enemies did not benefit from such protection

#obviously.

 

[Tigerace117]

US nukes were targeted at cities. While the US, unlike the original poster, probably does have sensitivities about targeting religious sites, it wasn’t really an issue with the Soviets as they didn’t have any that rise to the level of what we see here. The idea with MAD is to guarantee an automatic level of devastation that would deter attacks in the first place. Since non-democratic leaders generally don’t care about their people but rather about power, second strikes that target the source of that power makes sense. And if the source (and motivation for hostility is religious, I do see how the doctrine would be most effective as a deterrent if they were targeted.

But other than the poster’s musing you have no evidence or indication this is what the Israelis have set up. In fact, the only real targeting of religious and cultural sites in the IP conflict we have seen was the systematic destruction of the Jewish Quarter and use of tombstones as pavers and latrines by the Arabs in and after the war of independence. The Jews ended up rebuilding after the territory was liberated in 67.

So to sum up, western allies firebombed cities into oblivion to defend themselves from genocidal aggression, used civilian targets as part of a carefully calibrated MAD doctrine, but it’s the JEWS you have a problem with doing the same thing facing an even more existential threat than the Americans did from the Nazis.

Typical.

The US did not firebomb Swiss cities into oblivion. The US, despite having faced an enemy which had very much committed horrific war crimes against us, did not use it’s nuclear weapons on the city with strong religious importance— Kyoto— despite it being, from a military standpoint, a pretty solid target.

Targeting Mecca would be condemning local Jewish populations across much of the world to being targeted....forever, basically.

So in other words your persecution complex is nonsense...typical.