Is this a girl?

[SMTA]

I wish that you were a serious scientist like I am... then you would not be laughing.

You are not either.

 

[dixon01767]

Like what? That the kid may be gender fluid instead of transgender?

Gender fluid is transgendered when the opposite of ones biological sex is identified with. And the concern would be that he was never either one. Just a kid. They do silly things sometimes.

 

[COTO]

He's 7 years old and first expressed a desire to be a girl when he was 5.
My son wanted to be a Transformer when he was around that age and both my daughters wanted to be princesses.

It gets worse. Saith the NYT:

Dr. Cecilia Dhejne and colleagues at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden have done one of the largest follow-up studies of transsexuals, published in PLOS One in 2011. They compared a group of 324 Swedish transsexuals for an average of more than 10 years after gender reassignment with controls and found that transsexuals had 19 times the rate of suicide and about three times the mortality rate compared with controls. When the researchers controlled for baseline rates of depression and suicide, which are known to be higher in transsexuals, they still found elevated rates of depression and suicide after sex reassignment.

...

Alarmingly, 41 percent of transgender and gender nonconforming individuals attempt suicide at some point in their lifetime compared with 4.6 percent of the general public, according to a joint study by the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention and the Williams Institute.

...

Several studies have tracked the persistence of gender dysphoria in children as they grow. For example, Dr. Richard Green’s study of young boys with gender dysphoria in the 1980s found that only one of the 44 boys was gender dysphoric by adolescence or adulthood. And a 2008 study by Madeleine S. C. Wallein, at the VU University Medical Center in the Netherlands, reported that in a group of 77 young people, ages 5 to 12, who all had gender dysphoria at the start of the study, 70 percent of the boys and 36 percent of the girls were no longer gender dysphoric after an average of 10 years’ follow-up.

...

So if you were a parent of, say, an 8-year-old boy who said he really wanted to be a girl, you might not immediately accede to your child’s wish, knowing that there is a high probability — 80 percent, in some studies — that that desire will disappear with time.​

Hence forget the bickering over legal semantics. What we have is a 41% chance that this route will drive "Luna" to suicide, an 80% chance the boy would change his mind even assuming the therapist's diagnosis of gender dysphoria was completely accurate and not coached by the mother (in which case the percentage approaches 100%), and in the 20% (again, assuming the diagnosis is totally legitimate) chance that the boy wouldn't change his mind, a better than 50% chance that the "sex reassignment" will make his life significantly worse rather than better anyway.

And here's the kicker: most of these studies were performed in an era where i) pants-on-head crazy parents and school counsellors weren't actively encouraging kids to be "gender fluid", ii) the diagnostic criteria for gender dysphoria were extremely strict (the Friedman article suggests 5 in 100,000 [.005%] of the population), and iii) it was hard to find a nutcase therapist who'd diagnose "gender dysphoria" at the drop of a hat.

Hence if the nutcase parental movement to raise "gender fluid" children, encourage trangenderism, etc. prevails in even 1% of the population, not only are we destroying the lives of the truly gender dysphoric, but we're multiplying the number of lives destroyed by (literally) 20,000. With the current statistics, this means eventually 3.1 million new suicidally or near-suicidally miserable adults in 30 years in the US alone, many of whom will be sterile and suffer from lifelong medical ailments. And this is assuming the transgender madness only infects the minds of 1% of parents.

So bravo, Western courts. Once again you're rising to the challenge of helping nutcase parents destroy their children's lives. The OPT salutes you.

 

[Irredentist]

It gets worse. Saith the NYT:

Dr. Cecilia Dhejne and colleagues at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden have done one of the largest follow-up studies of transsexuals, published in PLOS One in 2011. They compared a group of 324 Swedish transsexuals for an average of more than 10 years after gender reassignment with controls and found that transsexuals had 19 times the rate of suicide and about three times the mortality rate compared with controls. When the researchers controlled for baseline rates of depression and suicide, which are known to be higher in transsexuals, they still found elevated rates of depression and suicide after sex reassignment.

...

Alarmingly, 41 percent of transgender and gender nonconforming individuals attempt suicide at some point in their lifetime compared with 4.6 percent of the general public, according to a joint study by the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention and the Williams Institute.

...

Several studies have tracked the persistence of gender dysphoria in children as they grow. For example, Dr. Richard Green’s study of young boys with gender dysphoria in the 1980s found that only one of the 44 boys was gender dysphoric by adolescence or adulthood. And a 2008 study by Madeleine S. C. Wallein, at the VU University Medical Center in the Netherlands, reported that in a group of 77 young people, ages 5 to 12, who all had gender dysphoria at the start of the study, 70 percent of the boys and 36 percent of the girls were no longer gender dysphoric after an average of 10 years’ follow-up.

...

So if you were a parent of, say, an 8-year-old boy who said he really wanted to be a girl, you might not immediately accede to your child’s wish, knowing that there is a high probability — 80 percent, in some studies — that that desire will disappear with time.​

Hence forget the bickering over legal semantics. What we have is a 41% chance that this route will drive "Luna" to suicide, an 80% chance the boy would change his mind even assuming the therapist's diagnosis of gender dysphoria was completely accurate and not coached by the mother (in which case the percentage approaches 100%), and in the 20% (again, assuming the diagnosis is totally legitimate) chance that the boy wouldn't change his mind, a better than 50% chance that the "sex reassignment" will make his life significantly worse rather than better anyway.

And here's the kicker: most of these studies were performed in an era where i) pants-on-head crazy parents and school counsellors weren't actively encouraging kids to be "gender fluid", ii) the diagnostic criteria for gender dysphoria were extremely strict (the Friedman article suggests 5 in 100,000 [.005%] of the population), and iii) it was hard to find a nutcase therapist who'd diagnose "gender dysphoria" at the drop of a hat.

Hence if the nutcase parental movement to raise "gender fluid" children, encourage trangenderism, etc. prevails in even 1% of the population, not only are we destroying the lives of the truly gender dysphoric, but we're multiplying the number of lives destroyed by (literally) 20,000. With the current statistics, this means eventually 3.1 million new suicidally or near-suicidally miserable adults in 30 years in the US alone, many of whom will be sterile and suffer from lifelong medical ailments. And this is assuming the transgender madness only infects the minds of 1% of parents.

So bravo, Western courts. Once again you're rising to the challenge of helping nutcase parents destroy their children's lives. The OPT salutes you. View attachment 67268165

You seem to be assuming that gender reassignment is directly causing suicidal ideation. But where is the proof of that? Merely having identified correlation does not prove a causation between the two, and there are any number of other external factors which can cause mental health issues. LGBT individuals in general have much higher rates of suicide and mental illness. Perhaps you should be comparing transgender individuals to gay and lesbian individuals, who they share much more in common with than straight people.

 

[dixon01767]

It gets worse. Saith the NYT:

Dr. Cecilia Dhejne and colleagues at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden have done one of the largest follow-up studies of transsexuals, published in PLOS One in 2011. They compared a group of 324 Swedish transsexuals for an average of more than 10 years after gender reassignment with controls and found that transsexuals had 19 times the rate of suicide and about three times the mortality rate compared with controls.​

Ive never seen any study that shows sex reassignment has ANY efficacy in treating gender dysphoria. And everyday they keep prescribing such treatment without ANY evidence that it even provides a benefit. And they know even less about the long term effects of using puberty blockers on kids.​

 

[Irredentist]

Ive never seen any study that shows sex reassignment has ANY efficacy in treating gender dysphoria. And everyday they keep prescribing such treatment without ANY evidence that it even provides a benefit. And they know even less about the long term effects of using puberty blockers on kids.

Here are a few studies showing just that. Perhaps you simply haven't been looking?

Female-to-male transgender quality of life; E Newfield, S Hart, S Dibble, L Kohler - Quality of Life Research, 2006

Is hormonal therapy associated with better quality of life in transsexuals? A cross‐sectional study
Audrey Gorin‐Lazard, Karine Baumstarck, Laurent Boyer, Aurélie Maquigneau, Stéphanie Gebleux, Jean‐Claude Penochet, Dominique Pringuey, Frédérique Albarel, Isabelle Morange, Anderson Loundou, Julie Berbis, Pascal Auquier, Christophe Lançon, Mireille Bonierbale
The journal of sexual medicine 9 (2), 531-541, 2012

Quality of life improves early after gender reassignment surgery in transgender women
Ebba K Lindqvist, Hannes Sigurjonsson, Caroline Möllermark, Johan Rinder, Filip Farnebo, T Kalle Lundgren
European journal of plastic surgery 40 (3), 223-226, 2017

Surgical satisfaction, quality of life, and their association after gender-affirming surgery: A follow-up study
Tim C van de Grift, Els Elaut, Susanne C Cerwenka, Peggy T Cohen-Kettenis, Baudewijntje PC Kreukels
Journal of sex & marital therapy 44 (2), 138-148, 2018

Quality of life and patient satisfaction following male-to-female sex reassignment surgery
Nikolaos A Papadopulos, Jean-Daniel Lellé, Dmitry Zavlin, Peter Herschbach, Gerhard Henrich, Laszlo Kovacs, Benjamin Ehrenberger, Anna-Katharina Kluger, Hans-Guenther Machens, Juergen Schaff
The journal of sexual medicine 14 (5), 721-730, 2017

 

[AProudLefty]

We’re on the subject of permanent biological damage caused by demented individuals, like this lunatic mother, foisting her insanity on her child.

That damage isn’t just biological either. It traps a person into a state for which change is not easy, and can be tortuous.

People join and leave the church all the time. Can be done over time... or at the snap of the fingers.

Try that with what this insane mother tried to foist on her son.

No proof of your claim.

Dismissed.

 

[AProudLefty]

Permanent, tortuous damage to a child at the hand of an insane parent... that will bear it’s poisonous fruit when the child becomes an adult is why.

I thought you people “loved the children”?

You believe permanent biological and psychological damage is acceptable... and when these idiocies fail miserably, ahhh... collateral damage... **** ‘em... it’s only a small percentage of society exposed to these Mengele type experiments that have gone badly wrong. Tough **** for those kids... and off to the next Leftist imbecility they go.

Ah a false accusation. One of the tools of the right. Of course I am against child abuse.

 

[zimmer]

No proof of your claim.

Dismissed.

You obviously subscribe to the lunatic mother and other morons perpetrating untold Mengele styled abuse on children.

Not only do you do that, but as you claim it is only a small percent, these children can be written-off.

That’s a downright sick and perverted world view.

It also reveals the beauty of free speech... as the more Leftists talk, the more they reveal how twisted and careless they really are.

 

[zimmer]

Ah a false accusation. One of the tools of the right. Of course I am against child abuse.

Go back and read your posts... your words. Now, if you want to go back and correct those posts... fair enough... but until you do that, I’ll stick to what I’ve written in response to you.

 

[AProudLefty]

You obviously subscribe to the lunatic mother and other morons perpetrating untold Mengele styled abuse on children.

Not only do you do that, but as you claim it is only a small percent, these children can be written-off.

That’s a downright sick and perverted world view.

It also reveals the beauty of free speech... as the more Leftists talk, the more they reveal how twisted and careless they really are.

Still falsely accusing me. Why? What is it with rightists and them falsely accusing others?

 

[AProudLefty]

Go back and read your posts... your words. Now, if you want to go back and correct those posts... fair enough... but until you do that, I’ll stick to what I’ve written in response to you.

Which post? I never suggested that I accept certain kind of child abuse. That is your lie.

 

[COTO]

You seem to be assuming that gender reassignment is directly causing suicidal ideation. But where is the proof of that? Merely having identified correlation does not prove a causation between the two, and there are any number of other external factors which can cause mental health issues. LGBT individuals in general have much higher rates of suicide and mental illness. Perhaps you should be comparing transgender individuals to gay and lesbian individuals, who they share much more in common with than straight people.

There's nothing in the article about the reassignment causing suicidal ideation. It simply states two separate facts: i) "41 percent of transgender and gender nonconforming individuals attempt suicide at some point in their lifetime" (ibid.); and ii) "When the researchers controlled for baseline rates of depression and suicide, which are known to be higher in transsexuals, they still found elevated rates of depression and suicide after sex reassignment." (ibid.)

It doesn't present any theories on why "elevated rates of depression and suicide after sex reassignment" are observed. It simply points out that, with respect to the non-reassigned transgender control group, the rates of depression and suicide are still higher. In other words, it's a bromide. It doesn't work, even in the (frankly) infinitesimal percentage of the population with genuine gender dysphoria.

If it was just the 5-in-100,000 individuals with true gender dysphoria we were talking about, I'd say "Maybe it's too small a problem to care about." but we're talking about a world gone mad in the 21st Century. It's not just a tiny fraction of children with true gender dysphoria (and the even tinier fraction that don't eventually grow out of it), it's a damned movement. There are thousands of people who seemingly have no goal in life other than to push transgenderism, transvestitism, "gender fluid" demagoguery, "drag queens", etc. into movies, TV, theme parks, theater productions, schools, and every conceivable media with the intent of convincing kids that gender is a mutable thing; and convincing their parents, their counselors, the courts, etc.--everybody who's supposed to protect them--that screwing with kids' sexuality, even to the point of steroids, hormones, puberty blockers, surgery, and worse is A-OK.

If it's clearly not A-OK for the truly gender dysphoric, it sure as hell won't be A-OK for the potential legion of kids who get dumped onto the transgender railroad by overzealous parents, counselors, and clinicians. And as I say, the problem has the potential to grow 20,000-fold as big as it once was if even 1% of children get swept up in this madness.

 

[Irredentist]

There's nothing in the article about the reassignment causing suicidal ideation. It simply states two separate facts: i) "41 percent of transgender and gender nonconforming individuals attempt suicide at some point in their lifetime" (ibid.); and ii) "When the researchers controlled for baseline rates of depression and suicide, which are known to be higher in transsexuals, they still found elevated rates of depression and suicide after sex reassignment." (ibid.)

It doesn't present any theories on why "elevated rates of depression and suicide after sex reassignment" are observed. It simply points out that, with respect to the non-reassigned transgender control group, the rates of depression and suicide are still higher. In other words, it's a bromide. It doesn't work, even in the (frankly) infinitesimal percentage of the population with genuine gender dysphoria.

If it was just the 5-in-100,000 individuals with true gender dysphoria we were talking about, I'd say "Maybe it's too small a problem to care about." but we're talking about a world gone mad in the 21st Century. It's not just a tiny fraction of children with true gender dysphoria (and the even tinier fraction that don't eventually grow out of it), it's a damned movement. There are thousands of people who seemingly have no goal in life other than to push transgenderism, transvestitism, "gender fluid" demagoguery, "drag queens", etc. into movies, TV, theme parks, theater productions, schools, and every conceivable media with the intent of convincing kids that gender is a mutable thing; and convincing their parents, their counselors, the courts, etc.--everybody who's supposed to protect them--that screwing with kids' sexuality, even to the point of steroids, hormones, puberty blockers, surgery, and worse is A-OK.

If it's clearly not A-OK for the truly gender dysphoric, it sure as hell won't be A-OK for the potential legion of kids who get dumped onto the transgender railroad by overzealous parents, counselors, and clinicians. And as I say, the problem has the potential to grow 20,000-fold as big as it once was if even 1% of children get swept up in this madness.

There are plenty of studies demonstrating how gender reassignment can improve quality of life for those with gender dysphoria. We should obviously be careful about ensuring that people actually have gender dysphoria before proceeding with that, as there are some people who simply have a fetish or paraphilia of some kind. But to discount it's efficacy entirely is simply foolish.

 

[dixon01767]

Here are a few studies showing just that. Perhaps you simply haven't been looking?

Female-to-male transgender quality of life; E Newfield, S Hart, S Dibble, L Kohler - Quality of Life Research, 2006

Is hormonal therapy associated with better quality of life in transsexuals? A cross‐sectional study
Audrey Gorin‐Lazard, Karine Baumstarck, Laurent Boyer, Aurélie Maquigneau, Stéphanie Gebleux, Jean‐Claude Penochet, Dominique Pringuey, Frédérique Albarel, Isabelle Morange, Anderson Loundou, Julie Berbis, Pascal Auquier, Christophe Lançon, Mireille Bonierbale
The journal of sexual medicine 9 (2), 531-541, 2012

Quality of life improves early after gender reassignment surgery in transgender women
Ebba K Lindqvist, Hannes Sigurjonsson, Caroline Möllermark, Johan Rinder, Filip Farnebo, T Kalle Lundgren
European journal of plastic surgery 40 (3), 223-226, 2017

Surgical satisfaction, quality of life, and their association after gender-affirming surgery: A follow-up study
Tim C van de Grift, Els Elaut, Susanne C Cerwenka, Peggy T Cohen-Kettenis, Baudewijntje PC Kreukels
Journal of sex & marital therapy 44 (2), 138-148, 2018

Quality of life and patient satisfaction following male-to-female sex reassignment surgery
Nikolaos A Papadopulos, Jean-Daniel Lellé, Dmitry Zavlin, Peter Herschbach, Gerhard Henrich, Laszlo Kovacs, Benjamin Ehrenberger, Anna-Katharina Kluger, Hans-Guenther Machens, Juergen Schaff
The journal of sexual medicine 14 (5), 721-730, 2017

"Quality of life" and "satisfaction" notice how they avoid mental health. Yes Im sure transgendered women are thrilled with their new big boobies.

 

[Renae]

Like what? That the kid may be gender fluid instead of transgender? Of course given that the source of the information is biased towards the dad's view means nothing, nor does the lack of any medical professional with knowledge on transgenderism and non-binary.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk

Momma has Munchausen by proxy issues.

 

[dixon01767]

The level of exaggeration here is astounding. The mother has not even expressed a desire to medically treat her child. The only thing that has happened is "gender affirmation" because it was actually the kid who first expressed a desire to be a girl, and was then diagnosed with gender dysphoria by a therapist. Not the mother.

They got it wrong.

 

[zimmer]

"Quality of life" and "satisfaction" notice how they avoid mental health. Yes Im sure transgendered women are thrilled with their new big boobies.

Mental health... they’re so happy they are far more likely to kill themselves.

Suicide attempts are alarmingly common among transgender individuals such as Lampe; 41% try to kill themselves at some point in their lives, compared with 4.6% of the general public. The numbers come from a study by the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention and the Williams Institute, which analyzed results from the National Transgender Discrimination Survey.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...s-face-high-rates--suicide-attempts/31626633/

 

[dixon01767]

He's 7 years old and first expressed a desire to be a girl when he was 5..

Possibly because his mom had been telling him since he was 3 yrs old that he was a girl. Probably more of a desire to please his mom.

 

[AProudLefty]

They got it wrong.

Then it shouldn't be a problem when the child hits puberty or snaps out of it before then.

 

[dixon01767]

Just some things you've conveniently left out...

So when 11 out of 12 peers listened to the fine details of both the mother and the father's side of the story 11 out of 12 agreed with the mother. This isn't some activist judge who is unilaterally deciding this. These are average people. People from Texas no less. There is no rational reason to think that 11 out of 12 jurors would give full custody to the mother and take it away from the man unless there was a valid reason for thinking the father was the one with the issues.

You really don't seem to have any clue how gender works. Nothing this woman is doing is dangerous or threatening to her child. It sounds to me like the father is the one hell bent on turning is son into some kind of prototype male.

You left out that the judge overruled the jury.

 

[dixon01767]

Then it shouldn't be a problem when the child hits puberty or snaps out of it before then.

Shouldn't be now that the state has intervened. Left to her own desires this mother and these clinics pushing gender reassignment could have really ****ed up another kid. Once they start with the puberty blockers they rarely if ever back down. These claims that everything is reversible if they just stop taking the blockers when they don have ANY evidence to back this up. No experience whatsoever on what 4 or 5 years of puberty blockers would do to a kid who decides not to transition.

 

[AProudLefty]

Shouldn't be now that the state has intervened. Left to her own desires this mother and these clinics pushing gender reassignment could have really ****ed up another kid. Once they start with the puberty blockers they rarely if ever back down. These claims that everything is reversible if they just stop taking the blockers when they don have ANY evidence to back this up. No experience whatsoever on what 4 or 5 years of puberty blockers would do to a kid who decides not to transition.

Then you don't have to worry because the mother doesn't plan to give the child blockers any time soon.

 

[maquiscat]

Momma has Munchausen by proxy issues.

I don't think it was this thread (might not have been this forum), but I did make an observation of that possibility. However, having listened to the kid in the first video, I'm not convinced of it. Any information that comes from his dad and the groups that support him are going to be bias.

That said, hormone blockers need.to be a no go initially, especially if the kids is trans and will want full conversion. Some research I did does indicate that their use will leave insufficient material for a conversion to a vagina. At least doing do without taking from other parts that might not be as nice.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk

 

[MrWonka]

You left out that the judge overruled the jury.

Yes, 1 individual right wing nut job judge decided to to take it upon him self to throw away what 11 out of 12 Jurors agreed with. The definition of an activist judge. He should probably be removed from the bench.