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India dumps F35

Stealers Wheel said:
Russia made them a better offer, simple as that.
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India has a long history of purchasing from the Russians (Soviets) due to cost, reliability and manufacturing partnerships. They like to mix it up with western purchases too from time to time, but for the numbers they need the F-35 is probably too pricey.

Especially with tariffs on arts raising the cost of manufacture.…even then, US jets haven’t really been a thing for them.
 
Allan said:
Trump also said a few months ago that allies will get a paired down version because "maybe they won't be our allies some day". He said America would provide technology that's "maybe 10% less".

That comment alone should trigger Canada's cancellation and send other allies into the arms of European manufacturers.
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Indeed......and many allies are slowly changing the world dynamics and relationships........ as to put it bluntly........The Trump America..... is becoming a bit of a world pariah. What took a couple of centuries to build into a progressive forward thinking nation is beting set back rapidly and at lightening speed. New alliances are being formed.....as no one is interested in being bullied into one sided deals.........or threatened, or "punished" for not bowing to Trump. Trump's america "first attitude is gradually turning into America alone............. as it no longer has anyone that can trust it. Trump America is unrelaible, flaky, unpredictable..............and totally UNRELIABLE as a "partner" or ally.
 
Stealers Wheel said:
Russia made them a better offer, simple as that.
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India is getting the Russian Su-57 that Putin has kept out of Ukraine because the Ukrainians can shoot it down at will. The Su-57 is too complex and expensive for the Russians to replace at the rapid rate Ukraine can shoot 'em out of the sky. Russia saw India coming on this one.

In 2018 Russia pulled its Su-57s out of India because Indian pilots said it performed poorly and mechanics said it was a clunker. Russia in return said the Indian pilots were inept and the mechanics didn't know what they were talking about. And this was when the Indian Air Force wanted more than 40 changes to include major matters such as weaknesses in the plane’s engine, stealth, and weapon carrying capabilities. That's when India turned to the USA for military hardware that's tough and reliable.

Trump still doesn't know what happened about the F-35s and India that's being sucked into a stinker deal with Putin who desperately needs the money. Back in 1949 when Mao and his CCP won the Chinese civil war the Big Question in Washington for the next several years was: Who Lost China? In this one we know already who "lost India."

This is serious stuff, Trump losing India to a lousy Russian fighter plane. With MAGAs supporting it. It's obvious the US can't allow its military stuff next to Russian military stuff and personnel alongside it and with it. India has simply up and quit on the USA.


MAGA !
 
uptower said:
India has a long history of purchasing from the Russians (Soviets) due to cost, reliability and manufacturing partnerships. They like to mix it up with western purchases too from time to time, but for the numbers they need the F-35 is probably too pricey.

Especially with tariffs on arts raising the cost of manufacture.…even then, US jets haven’t really been a thing for them.
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Since the naturally America friendly Modi became prime minister he reduced arms purchases from Russia by 53%.

Now with this incredibly stinker Su-57 deal with other MIGs thrown in Modi says he has no more plans to buy US military equipment.

Trump still doesn't know anything about it as he's too busy with his domestic 21st Century Uniquely American Fascism and global tariffs to become the delusional lord and master over all the world. MAGAs luvit because it's Trump. MAGAs are all for it. Trump knows he can't do it without His MAGAs.
 
I certainly don't think the Russian craft are any better than American F-35 but this line alone from @Allan is deeply concerning

Allan said:
Trump also said a few months ago that allies will get a paired down version because "maybe they won't be our allies some day". He said America would provide technology that's "maybe 10% less".

That comment alone should trigger Canada's cancellation and send other allies into the arms of European manufacturers.
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If that's not a wake-up call to other manufacturers and nations, nothing is.
 
Allan said:
India has said no to the purchase of F-35s. Canada is also reviewing its order for 88 of the jets. That review will be completed by the fall.



defence-industry.eu

India rejects U.S. F-35 offer, prioritises local production and Russian jets – Bloomberg

India has informed U.S. officials that it is not interested in acquiring the F-35 stealth fighter jet, despite continued American efforts to expand defence exports to New Delhi.
defence-industry.eu defence-industry.eu
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India did NOT dump the F-35.

Russia is and has been India's largest supplier of it's military needs.

France is also a major supplier.
 
Tangmo said:
India is getting the Russian Su-57 that Putin has kept out of Ukraine because the Ukrainians can shoot it down at will. The Su-57 is too complex and expensive for the Russians to replace at the rapid rate Ukraine can shoot 'em out of the sky. Russia saw India coming on this one.

In 2018 Russia pulled its Su-57s out of India because Indian pilots said it performed poorly and mechanics said it was a clunker. Russia in return said the Indian pilots were inept and the mechanics didn't know what they were talking about. And this was when the Indian Air Force wanted more than 40 changes to include major matters such as weaknesses in the plane’s engine, stealth, and weapon carrying capabilities. That's when India turned to the USA for military hardware that's tough and reliable.

Trump still doesn't know what happened about the F-35s and India that's being sucked into a stinker deal with Putin who desperately needs the money. Back in 1949 when Mao and his CCP won the Chinese civil war the Big Question in Washington for the next several years was: Who Lost China? In this one we know already who "lost India."

This is serious stuff, Trump losing India to a lousy Russian fighter plane. With MAGAs supporting it. It's obvious the US can't allow its military stuff next to Russian military stuff and personnel alongside it and with it. India has simply up and quit on the USA.


MAGA !
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......there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest the Ukrainians can “shoot the Su-57 down at will”. What are you talking about?
 
Infinite Chaos said:
I certainly don't think the Russian craft are any better than American F-35 but this line alone from @Allan is deeply concerning



If that's not a wake-up call to other manufacturers and nations, nothing is.
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Except that isn’t really the question at this point. The question is “are they better than what America is apparently willing to provide, which is a weakened model specifically designed to make it easier for America to destroy.”

And that answer is a pretty clear yes.
 
India wants to develop its own domestic production and capabilities. This tells me three thing. 1) They got the talent, money and the means (as in industrial capacity) to do it 2) USA closely guards its technology and doesn't take on partners in areas of national defense and 3) India has no immediate need for a fighter aircraft and they have the luxury of waiting to get exactly what they think they want.
 
Lycanthrope said:
Taco's Art of the Deal.
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Agreed, part of this is question on F-35 safety and the other part is Trump's shit show temper tantrum TACO trade war.
 
ASHES said:
I think rather the latest gen aircraft and even older ones are becoming less strategically important of an air dominance asset in favor of the much more cost effective and adaptable drone one.
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Which does not exist.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
How is it "pretty clear?"

Have there been any dogfights between Russian and American aircraft that I missed recently?
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The American president has already said the aircraft provided would be artificially limited, as you to yourself just said.

US aircraft are not so much better than anyone else’s that such a reduction would make them still viable compared to regular unhindered aircraft.
 
Tigerace117 said:
The American president has already said the aircraft provided would be artificially limited, as you to yourself just said.

US aircraft are not so much better than anyone else’s that such a reduction would make them still viable compared to regular unhindered aircraft.
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I accept that they will be limited but until I see some factual evidence of superiority of Russian aircraft in true combat, then I will reserve judgement.
 
Oozlefinch said:
Air combat drones.
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Well there are air to air combat drones for taking out other drones, and it would be trivial to equip larger models with air to air missiles. It isn't necessary though because of the proliferation of manpads, and the vulnerability the aircraft face on the ground from drones.
 
Allan said:
Trump also said a few months ago that allies will get a paired down version because "maybe they won't be our allies some day". He said America would provide technology that's "maybe 10% less".

That comment alone should trigger Canada's cancellation and send other allies into the arms of European manufacturers.
Click to expand...


You likely have newer info that I, but my information is that Canada is going with France on new jets. I can't recall where I read it, but it as I understand France has some planes Canada needs now. AND, knowing the mindset of Ottawa, they're giving the blimp the finger.

I don't think Americans are aware of how offensive his ****ing rhetoric is.


Our provincial government is being pressured by some to withdraw our water bombers from California's fires in a "**** Trump" move.
 
Fearandloathing said:
You likely have newer info that I, but my information is that Canada is going with France on new jets.
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No decision yet. Of the 88 jets we ordered we're committed to 18.

The other consideration is that the RCAF has spent billions in infrastructure preparing for the F-35. They need to determine if that can be repurposed.

If we ditched the US plane we'd have to go through the procurement process again which would take years.

My thinking is that we should be sourcing from allies. Take the 18 we're committed to and start looking at European offerings.
 
ASHES said:
Well there are air to air combat drones for taking out other drones, and it would be trivial to equip larger models with air to air missiles. It isn't necessary though because of the proliferation of manpads, and the vulnerability the aircraft face on the ground from drones.
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Name one.
 
Fearandloathing said:
Our provincial government is being pressured by some to withdraw our water bombers from California's fires in a "**** Trump" move.
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That would be ****ing California which hates Trump. It also would be endangering lives and property if the water bombers were pulled to include those in California who are fighting the fires. You'd know Trump Him Self couldn't care less if your provincial government possibly killed some Californians by fires.
 
Fearandloathing said:
AND, knowing the mindset of Ottawa, they're giving the blimp the finger.

I don't think Americans are aware of how offensive his ****ing rhetoric is.
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Most are not, true. So many Americans are notoriously unaware in general.

However there are decades of suppressed contempt in Canada for Americans given Canadians are certain they've always been superior to the American rabble south of their border. It's coming out now and strongly so given Trump and His MAGA Morons gross abuse of Canada and Canadians. It's a national anger throughout Canada toward Trump but it includes those many Canadians who for decades have held a strong contempt toward Americans that they've suppressed. For them it's a giant release of a long term pent up anger and contempt of the overbearing Ugly American which admittedly is a lot of us.
 
Oozlefinch said:
You claim there are air to air combat drones. Name one.
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The ones that are used to take out other drones, or helicopters. Do you need me to find you videos?
 
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