How the Economy Changed: There's No Bargains Left Anywhere

[EMNofSeattle]

That doesn't follow at all but ok.

Sure it does. I asked you very simply if a population of 2 billion people would benefit the average American, and you didn’t want to say yes so you started up your skating by bringing up timelines. OK let’s take the timeline back to 1965, do you think that the majority of Americans would’ve believed in 1965 that having 350 million people instead of 250 million in 2024 would be better for the average American? In fact, the majority of Americans did not believe that, that is why Edward Kennedy went on the floor of the senate and lied through his teeth about the rate of immigration Hart Sellers would allow

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Who is my boy?

The guy who’s arguments you’re copying

 

[samiam5211]

The guy who’s arguments you’re copying

Are you talking about Zehian?

The fact that you think he invented this concept, tells me something about the depth of your information.

 

[RedMarsRepublic]

To send them and everyone else with any expertise off to labor camps and thus ensuring your society is ran as incompetently as possible so that tens of millions of people die - many from starvation?

China was having famines long before Mao took over. But ok, fine, we shouldn't actually shoot landlords, I was in a bad mood, but we should definitely abolish them.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Are you talking about Zehian?

The fact that you think he invented this concept, tells me something about the depth of your information.

He’s the biggest booster of this idea and it’s clearly wrong.

There was no lack of security for global trade that was then ended by the U.S. Navy.

The actual irony is the United States made security for trade worse because our insistence on European decolonization created weak states on the African coast where piracy could re-emerge

 

[samiam5211]

He’s the biggest booster of this idea and it’s clearly wrong.

There was no lack of security for global trade that was then ended by the U.S. Navy.

The actual irony is the United States made security for trade worse because our insistence on European decolonization created weak states on the African coast where piracy could re-emerge

You're just wrong.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

You're just wrong.

Lol. Ok guy.

I’ll accept the concession

 

[Kushinator]

If its not the free market and profit seeking, then what do you believe is the cause?

Biden's inflation!!!!

 

[Kushinator]

The mass replacement of Americans by over 60 million foreign citizens since 1965

If you factor the children born because of immigration the US population is likely over 100,000,000 people more then it would be without Hart Sellers

Malthusian economics was abandoned centuries ago.

Why does this ignorance persist?

 

[Kushinator]

It takes less time to make your own burger than it does to go to Wendy's and have them do it for you, and you can do it for 10% of the cost.

Well, that's not necessarily true.

You're not going to be able to buy one bun, one burger patty, two leafs of lettuce, slice of tomato, etc....

It's going to cost much more to make that first burger than what you'll pay at Wendy's. And if you actually want it to taste good AF, your going to spend (sunk cost) on innovative cookware and ingredients.

Ever wonder why there are more hot dog buns sold in a bag than the number of hotdogs in a pack?

 

[Kushinator]

My gut tells me (as reliable as that is) that the hustler and profit at any cost mentality is just seeking out previous deals. One example is that you can see prices for things typically go up before black friday so that companies can claim there is a sale.

Its a lot of little stuff like that where individuals or companies are seeking every trick they can find to increase profits, removing the variability in pricing that used to exist.

Many deals are predicated upon moving older inventory.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Malthusian economics was abandoned centuries ago.

Why does this ignorance persist?

scarcity is a central tenet of modern economic theory

 

[samiam5211]

Well, that's not necessarily true.

You're not going to be able to buy one bun, one burger patty, two leafs of lettuce, slice of tomato, etc....

It's going to cost much more to make that first burger than what you'll pay at Wendy's. And if you actually want it to taste good AF, your going to spend (sunk cost) on innovative cookware and ingredients.

Ever wonder why there are more hot dog buns sold in a bag than the number of hotdogs in a pack?

I can buy 3 pounds of beef, a pack of buns, a head a lettuce, a couple of tomatoes and onions all for under 20 bucks and have enough for 8 burgers with plenty of everything left over besides buns.

People who complain about the price of fast food make poor economic decisions.

 

[Kushinator]

I fully expect we will see some of that again.

Because - yes - you are better off making do in an apartment than purchasing a home at an insanely inflated price.

I do not.

People are not truly able to extend themselves like in 2005 because lenders committee to adhere to more stringent lending practices.

Now if the economy tanks, people lose their employment, we will see default rates rise across the entire credit spectrum. With that said, if unemployment goes from 3.7% to 4.5%, it's not going to be nearly as bad as it would be going from 3.7% to 7.5%.

So long as the labor market comes to accelerate, housing is going to maintain.

 

[Kushinator]

scarcity is a central tenet of modern economic theory

You're ignoring my statement.

Homebuilders are purposely not supplying the market with adequate housing in order to maintain their bottom line.

 

[BirdinHand]

People are not truly able to extend themselves like in 2005 because lenders committee to adhere to more stringent lending practices

Give it another administration or so in government

 

[Kushinator]

I can buy 3 pounds of beef, a pack of buns, a head a lettuce, a couple of tomatoes and onions all for under 20 bucks and have enough for 8 burgers with plenty of everything left over besides buns.

I live in South Florida. Three lbs of 73% lean is gonna run you $13. The cheapest buns are $1.5., cheapest head of lettuce is $1.75, 4 Roma tomatoes for $1, a jumbo red onion is $1.35, GV Ketchup and and mustard is about $3.

Ok... That's about $21.25.

But no cheese, pickles ,seasonings, bacon, avocado, etc.... and these are the least quality ingredients priced above.

What about the cookware? The utensils? Do you eat over the sink? Then you have to factor in cost of clean up.

I fully get your point that over the longer horizon, you can make a shitty burger cheaper than you can buy a shitty burger, and your shitty house burger will have more calories.

FWIW, a junior hamburger at Wendy's is $1.81 after tax in South Florida.

People who complain about the price of fast food make poor economic decisions.

Ok boomer.

 

[Kushinator]

Give it another administration or so in government

I don't see federally insured lenders abandoning risk management practices and lessons learned from the financial crisis any time soon, regardless of who wins an election.

Dodd Frank and Basil III are still very much in effect, and the 2018 dulling was more beneficial than risky imo.

 

[samiam5211]

I live in South Florida. Three lbs of 73% lean is gonna run you $13. The cheapest buns are $1.5., cheapest head of lettuce is $1.75, 4 Roma tomatoes for $1, a jumbo red onion is $1.35, GV Ketchup and and mustard is about $3.

Ok... That's about $21.25.

But no cheese, pickles ,seasonings, bacon, avocado, etc.... and these are the least quality ingredients priced above.

What about the cookware? The utensils? Do you eat over the sink? Then you have to factor in cost of clean up.

I fully get your point that over the longer horizon, you can make a shitty burger cheaper than you can buy a shitty burger, and your shitty house burger will have more calories.

FWIW, a junior hamburger at Wendy's is $1.81 after tax in South Florida.

Ok boomer.

Wendy's burgers don't usually come with forks or plates either. I guess you could wrap a paper towel around if you want to eat from paper like you would at Wendy's.

Eating fast food is a money sink and isn't even much faster than making your own food. It isn't cheaper no matter how you try to cut it. it is infact, significantly cheaper to cook your own food. The price of cooking utensils doesn't even register if you use them every day.

People should cook their own food, not complain about high prices at fast food places.

 

[Kushinator]

People should cook their own food, not complain about high prices at fast food places.

Ok boomer.

 

[Carjosse]

Cost of living has gone up as more and more people want to move to and/or live in desirable areas.

Cities expand, suburbs expand…

Been going on since the US has existed.

But supply especially for things like housing has often not been allowed to expand with that demand or the growth has been poorly or not even planned at all.

All results in higher costs for everyone.

 

[Kushinator]

But supply especially for things like housing has often been allowed to expand with that demand.

Normally, that's going to happen in a competitive market. The U.S. housing market is kinda weird due to ample area to build new housing, yet it's just not going to occur in areas like San Francisco or Manhattan without coming at an ultra premium price. South Florida is another animal in and of itself. Demand for $1 million + homes has soared since the pandemic, although it should be noted the price of real estate has skyrocketed since the onset of the pandemic, e.g. a home that cost $1 million in Jan 2021 is now worth $1.31 million if we index to Case-Shiller. Similarly, a house that sold for $763k is now worth $1 million.

Affordable and low income housing? Not so much. There is an estimated 7 million home deficit.

IMO, housing demand revolves around the ability to qualify for financing. A person who qualifies for a $900k loan is going to pay prime interest, where at the lower end of the market, we are talking about FHA subsidized loans where the borrower can put down 3%, but will be required to purchase mortgage insurance in the case of default. Prior to the pandemic, historically low mortgage interest rates provided additional flexibility in price, but higher rates have eaten into loan allowances on the basis of monthly income.

There's also a stigma associated with low-cost housing, being that the developers are often depicted as slum lords or rent seekers. It's a tougher market for developers unless they are large enough to absorb such flack.

Housing is beginning to develop characteristics of a Giffen good.

 

[The Mark]

Why do you hate the free market and capitalism?

The problem is that the market has never been free, and the necessary government actions to ensure it's competitiveness have not been done, which means in areas where monopolies or near-monopolies are involved, you see increased prices or decreased quality...or both.

 

[Kushinator]

The problem is that the market has never been free, and the necessary government actions to ensure it's competitiveness have not been done, which means in areas where monopolies or near-monopolies are involved, you see increased prices or decreased quality...or both.

I believe the statement was more tongue in cheek.

The concept of a completely free and competitive market is a theoretical construct. From my experience, the most "free" markets were the dark web markets circa 2015, but even they were subject to competitive issues because there was always the risk the sites would be seized by authorities, or the owners just up and pulling everyone's crypto. Eventually, newer markets would develop a decentralized wallet system to ease the fear of getting robbed.

But they were illegal, and therefore were not completely free.

The logic above inversely relates to communism. Unless an economic system is going to completely abandon property rights, communism is a complete misapplication of the term. Same thing applies to a society that uses currency... even barter.

Unregulated markets eventually become dominated by organized crime. Fully regulated markets eventually develop a black market that is entirely dominated by organized crime.

At the end of the day, the U.S. is a mixed economy with a capitalist lean. It's highly regulated and has a competitive landscape. The no true Scotsman fallacy does not apply to this type of discussion.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

You're ignoring my statement.

Homebuilders are purposely not supplying the market with adequate housing in order to maintain their bottom line.

You can’t supply the market fast enough for 2 million new arrivals a year. The admin is purposefully allowing more aliens then can be housed every year