How Rex Tillerson Turned The State Department Into a Ghost Ship

[Simon W. Moon]

IMO the State Department is simply an agency used to overthrow legitimately elected governments we don't like.

That certainly makes it easier to discount your opinion on this and related matters.

thanks

 

[Mycroft]

OMFGFFS ................ you have got to be ****ing kinding US, right? ............... OMFG ........................

Count them up if you don't believe me.

 

[Quazimodo]

See I read it differently.
I took it to be more constrained by the words it used.

So we're back to the thing where Americans are not fit to criticize their own govt again?
Only former US presidents are fit to criticize how a US president conducts the nation's business?
You're welcome to that opinion.
But I'm more of a free, democratic society kind of guy myself.

It seems reasonable to me that Americans should criticize poorly performing public servants.
ymmv, I guess?


You'd rather talk about Obummer than the current ****-for-stains whose in the office.
That's fair and fine enough.
There's probably a thread for it somewhere.


Yeah, but from your perch Americans should not criticize their govt.
So forgive me for not wanting to join you there in Authoritarianland.


The point of the article in the OP, to me anyway, was that the State Department was not able to do its job.
I know you read all this other stuff about Trump being a failure in the article.

But when I read the article, it seemed to be about how the State Department was unable to do its job because it's not staffed.

:shrug:
ymmv

It has been my experience that criticism is most effective when those who criticize know what they are talking about.

When I read the article, I was reminded how top-heavy our government is and how useless many of the lower echelon staffers really are. The article was meaningless criticism from a lying teenie bopper magazine. Don't believe everything you read.

 

[notquiteright]

Positions are unfilled because most trump appointees have not been approved by the senate

Ahhh according to the Business Insider Trump hasn't nominated anyone for 79% of the vacant positions.

State Dept has 120 positions requiring senate confirmation- 103 are open with no nominee.

54 ambassador positions are open, 45 have no nominee.

Positions are unfilled because Trump either doesn't want to fill them or can't get anyone to step up for the position representing his administration... eace

 

[Mac77]

Ahhh according to the Business Insider Trump hasn't nominated anyone for 79% of the vacant positions.

State Dept has 120 positions requiring senate confirmation- 103 are open with no nominee.

54 ambassador positions are open, 45 have no nominee.

Positions are unfilled because Trump either doesn't want to fill them or can't get anyone to step up for the position representing his administration... eace

Sorry but that is a non issue compared to settking the question of russian collusian

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Sorry but that is a non issue compared to settking the question of russian collusian

If it's a non-issue, why are you participating in this thread?

Cause that's the topic of this thread.

 

[slick]

Tillerson is completely unprepared for diplomatic service in both experience and interest in the job. He will get even worse now that he has little chance of making his deal for Russian oil which was obviously the only reason he accepted the post. He's lazy or just disinterested in the protocol needed for the job and I bet he resigns before the year is out. BTW It would n't surprise me if Putin was the one that "suggested" Tillerson to Trump. He's a dream come true for the Russians and has already done serious damage to our image abroad.

I heard on the radio that a poll revealed that 73% of democrats would give up drinking if their wet dream of Trump
being impeached came to pass. Given that 10% of this leftwing group are alcoholics & say 5% though not alcoholics tend
to get juiced out of their skulls on weekends, if my math is correct that leaves only 12% of left-wingers are not hate filled
psychos. I wonder which group to include you in

 

[ataraxia]

Tillerson's powerful strong voice adds to the command presence needed in this most important cabinet post .
He's the cream of a strong presidential cabinet.

See this is the kind of stuff from Trump supporters I just don't understand. That's about as vague as saying we're making America Great Again. But there is nothing concrete. He has done nothing so far (thank God), and I don't see how he will.

Our government is blown up. That's what you wanted. I know that. But at least don't go around telling us how great it's doing. It's doing nothing, just as you wanted.

 

[ataraxia]

I heard on the radio that a poll revealed that 73% of democrats would give up drinking if their wet dream of Trump
being impeached came to pass. Given that 10% of this leftwing group are alcoholics & say 5% though not alcoholics tend
to get juiced out of their skulls on weekends, if my math is correct that leaves only 12% of left-wingers are not hate filled
psychos. I wonder which group to include you in

Well considering that most Trump supporters are already on meth and opioids, they won't really care when Trump takes away the healthcare for their addiction. It seems they are too gorked out to care at this point, or to think that far ahead. As long as he cusses good just like them.

 

[notquiteright]

Sorry but that is a non issue compared to settking the question of russian collusian

Ummmm who said anything about 'settking of Russian collusian'...

This is about the Trump n his trumpkins trying to blame democrats for the unfilled positions when Trump has FAILED to nominate anyone for the vast majority of vacancies...

Either your knee jerked or you thought you was in a different thread.... eace

 

[slick]

See this is the kind of stuff from Trump supporters I just don't understand. That's about as vague as saying we're making America Great Again. But there is nothing concrete. He has done nothing so far (thank God), and I don't see how he will.

Our government is blown up. That's what you wanted. I know that. But at least don't go around telling us how great it's doing. It's doing nothing, just as you wanted.

Homeland Security Chief Kelly & Supreme Court Justice Gorsuch would disagree with you.

 

[Born Free]

This administration is in no shape to handle any possible future crisis, international or domestic. This admin can barely handle a press conference as it is. With their staffing and inexperience, they are nowhere near being capable of handling anything critical.

Yeah, Trump can't do anything right except win the election away from your darling Hillary.

 

[Thoreau72]

That certainly makes it easier to discount your opinion on this and related matters.

thanks

Maybe you could provide a short list, very short list, of the positive achievements of our State Department? You know, their successful efforts towards peace, harmony and good relations between governments and cultures.

We can disregard our illustrious efforts in Ukraine and Libya, just to make the list shorter.....

 

[PeteEU]

Weakening the State Department means that the US is weaker overseas.. which is Putins plan from the start and why he chose Trump in the first place as his candidate. Tillerson is after all, one of Putins best friends.. so of course he will ruin the State Department which was a thorn in Putins side.

 

[eohrnberger]

How Rex Tillerson Turned The State Department Into a Ghost Ship

By Bob Dreyfuss - 5 hours ago

Rex Tillerson Turned the State Department Into a Ghost Ship - Rolling Stone


When Donald Trump tapped Rex Tillerson, then CEO of ExxonMobil, to serve as secretary of state, expectations weren't high. With zero experience in government or diplomacy, Tillerson got the job after winning the support of Steve Bannon, the iconoclastic former Breitbart News chief, and Jared Kushner, Trump's son-in-law. From the start, he was widely panned for his close ties to the Russian oil industry, including one deal worth a reported $500 billion, and questions were raised about Tillerson's lack of familiarity about tensions with North Korea, the war in Afghanistan, the battle against the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq, or the Arab-Israeli problem.

Perhaps, then, Tillerson would find smart people to help him along? Well, no. Six months after taking office, Tillerson's State Department is populated by ghosts, with office after office empty, top positions unfilled, key ambassadorships unnamed. Under Tillerson's uncertain leadership, America's diplomatic expertise – its ability to bring experience to bear on knotty international problems, its facility for reconciling warring parties and conflicts from the Middle East to Asia – has been decimated. And that has given the upper hand to the Pentagon. Whereas Trump and Tillerson have announced plans to cut the budget of the State Department by one-third, the White House is seeking a bump of $54 billion for the Department of Defense.

"The militarization of everything is kind of taking place," Max Bergmann, a former senior State Department official under President Obama, tells Rolling Stone.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, Trump is preparing America for ENDLESS WARS :doh

'Make America Go To War & Kill Off Our Troops Again' uch:

Of course the idea that the State Department was previously overstaffed and over burdened with expensive bureaucrats, and that it was time for a house cleaning and a staff optimization just isn't possible in the least, right?

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Of course the idea that the State Department was previously overstaffed and over burdened with expensive bureaucrats, and that it was time for a house cleaning and a staff optimization just isn't possible in the least, right?

Someone would have to make that case before it could be assessed.

Would you like to make the case?

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Maybe you could provide a short list, very short list, of the positive achievements of our State Department? You know, their successful efforts towards peace, harmony and good relations between governments and cultures.

We can disregard our illustrious efforts in Ukraine and Libya, just to make the list shorter.....

Here's a link to multiple lists

 

[eohrnberger]

Someone would have to make that case before it could be assessed.

Would you like to make the case?

I don't have any actual information on which to base a formal case. However, that doesn't mean that I don't believe that it just might be the case.

What we do know is that the vast majority of federal employees donated to the Hillary campaign rather than the Trump campaign.

Federal government employees are opening their wallets to help Hillary Clinton beat Donald Trump on Nov. 8.

Of the roughly $2 million that federal workers from 14 agencies spent on presidential politics by the end of September, about $1.9 million, or 95 percent, went to the Democratic nominee’s campaign, according to an analysis by The Hill.

Employees at all the agencies analyzed, without exception, are sending their campaign contributions overwhelmingly to Clinton over her Republican counterpart. Several agencies, such as the State Department, which Clinton once led, saw more than 99 percent of contributions going to Clinton.

Employees of the Department of Justice, which investigated Clinton’s use of a private email server while she was secretary of State, gave Clinton 97 percent of their donations. Trump received $8,756 from DOJ employees compared with $286,797 for Clinton. From IRS employees, Clinton received 94 percent of donations.

Federal government employees overwhelmingly backed Clinton’s presidential campaign no matter which agency The Hill analyzed using Federal Election Commission data covering donors giving more than $200.

Government workers shun Trump, give big money to Clinton | TheHill

That, in and of itself, would seem to indicate that there's a distinct lack of support for the present administration in these departments, so is it really surprising that there's been the departures? Especially from State? I don't think so.

Seeing as the State Department, and others, are in fact functioning, those staff losses don't appear to have been critical to the operation of the departments themselves, the logical deduction being that the staff losses were, in fact, redundant.

 

[polgara]

I don't have any actual information on which to base a formal case. However, that doesn't mean that I don't believe that it just might be the case.

What we do know is that the vast majority of federal employees donated to the Hillary campaign rather than the Trump campaign.



That, in and of itself, would seem to indicate that there's a distinct lack of support for the present administration in these departments, so is it really surprising that there's been the departures? Especially from State? I don't think so.

Seeing as the State Department, and others, are in fact functioning, those staff losses don't appear to have been critical to the operation of the departments themselves, the logical deduction being that the staff losses were, in fact, redundant.

Greetings, Erik. :2wave:

A logical conclusion all around, and not surprising - they thought she was going to win! :mrgreen:

 

[eohrnberger]

Greetings, Erik. :2wave:

A logical conclusion all around, and not surprising - they thought she was going to win! :mrgreen:

Greetings, Polgara. :2wave:
Who's my favorite good witch? (hoping all is well)

Newt identified this facet and fact long ago that the federal bureaucracy, aka "The Deep State", were all in the tank for Clinton (as their campaign donations document), and, as a result of her loss to Trump, are pissed off as hell, and, apparently, exacting their revenge through damaging leaks all meant to undermine a legitimately elected president. A precedent, and a dangerous one at that, given that the federal bureaucracy, I do believe, have sworn allegiance and service to the legitimately elected president as part of their oath of office / appointment.

Trump has got himself an up hill battle against these people, when he really shouldn't have to.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

I don't have any actual information on which to base a formal case. However, that doesn't mean that I don't believe that it just might be the case.

This was my suspicion.

...is it really surprising that there's been the departures? Especially from State?

Afaict, the issue/news isn't that there're vacancies, but that the vacancies are still not being filled.

Seeing as the State Department, and others, are in fact functioning, those staff losses don't appear to have been critical to the operation of the departments themselves, the logical deduction being that the staff losses were, in fact, redundant.

I have a car with no brakes, no lights or speedometer.
Reverse is the only gear.
But, it's still functioning.
So the logical conclusion is that those other functions were redundant.

You based these assertions on your feelings rather than "any actual information" again, didn't you?

 

[eohrnberger]

This was my suspicion.


Afaict, the issue/news isn't that there're vacancies, but that the vacancies are still not being filled.



I have a car with no brakes, no lights or speedometer.
Reverse is the only gear.
But, it's still functioning.
So the logical conclusion is that those other functions were redundant.

Bad comparison. The State Department is in fact still functioning. The car you describe wouldn't be considered as functioning.

You based these assertions on your feelings rather than "any actual information" again, didn't you?

What substantiation would you bring to the discussion otherwise? I'm willing to consider it. I may amend my position / opinion.
What part of the duties of the Department of State are going wanting?

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Bad comparison. The State Department is in fact still functioning. The car you describe wouldn't be considered as functioning.
What substantiation would you bring to the discussion otherwise? I'm willing to consider it. I may amend my position / opinion.
What part of the duties of the Department of State are going wanting?

Seems even Tillerson is getting frustrated with the Trump Admin

Rex Tillerson berates White House aide over blocked State Department staffing nominees: Report


It would be nice to believe that this is all for the good of America the way that you seem to.

But I'm not comfortable adhering to that belief yet.

 

[polgara]

Greetings, Polgara. :2wave:
Who's my favorite good witch? (hoping all is well)

Newt identified this facet and fact long ago that the federal bureaucracy, aka "The Deep State", were all in the tank for Clinton (as their campaign donations document), and, as a result of her loss to Trump, are pissed off as hell, and, apparently, exacting their revenge through damaging leaks all meant to undermine a legitimately elected president. A precedent, and a dangerous one at that, given that the federal bureaucracy, I do believe, have sworn allegiance and service to the legitimately elected president as part of their oath of office / appointment.

Trump has got himself an up hill battle against these people, when he really shouldn't have to.

Which only goes to show that sometimes it does pay to have a big ego and an "attitude," because I honestly don't think he much cares what anyone thinks!

Here is a toast that was given by a woman on The Housewives of New York City TV program the other evening, and it just seems so fitting to use it now in Trump's honor, so here goes!

"This toast to all who wish us well; and those who don't can go f*** themselves," as she raised her champagne flute, and so did the other women in the room! That is one clever witch, Erik, since it didn't rhyme and no one cared! :lamo

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Bad ... wanting?

Rex Tillerson berates White House aide over blocked State Department staffing nominees: Report


It doesn't even seem to actually be on purpose as you very charitably suppose.

It seems that the Trump Admin just cannot get it together.

But maybe the apparent chaos and incompetence is just some more of their π³ dimensional chess game they're winning so hard.