How Much Credit Does Trump Deserve for the Strong Economy?

[Conservative]

Apparently not.. you keep typing..

I have made a fool out of you but your problem is you are too stubborn to realize it, have a good one, I have decided you aren't worth it

 

[marke]

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-09-11/trump-s-economic-record-is-yet-to-be-written

"So I’m not terribly surprised that the economy today looks pretty similar to the economy at the end of the Barack Obama administration. For example, the unemployment rate stands at 3.9 percent, but its 6-percentage-point steady decline began during Obama’s first term.

Or consider the most recent GDP release, which found the economy growing at an annual rate of 4.2 percent. That’s fast growth, to be sure. But the economy enjoyed an annual rate of growth above 4 percent during four quarters of Obama’s presidency.

Trump has been president for 19 months, during which the economy added an average of 189,000 jobs per month. In the final 19 months of the Obama presidency, the economy added 208,000 jobs per month — basically no difference.

I’m going to stop the comparisons here. It’s not good practice to analyze economic data grouped by presidential administration, precisely because the president does not control the economy with a wand, magic or otherwise. And the gist of the major economic indicators confirms the
e story told by the three I’ve discussed above."


Comments?

It seems many democrats were wrong about the stock market, for one example. The market did not crash after Trump was elected as many leftists predicted. Instead, the market boomed. Go figger.

 

[Blue Dog]

As I said in another thread: Presidents get too much credit for boom cycles and too much criticism for bust cycles.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Hmmm... we are not talking about people in this country. You realize that we TRADE with other countries and that WE SEND PRODUCTS.. to other countries right? That's the whole point about this trade war.

(sheesh.. talk about clueless). Well.. we send products to China... Well.. Trump hit China with tariffs.. so China retaliated.. and so now.. US products that are sent to China.. now cost more in China... Which means that fewer Chinese customers are buying US products.

now.. you said it.. the US isn't going to stop buying goods and services... SO.. the thirst for CHINESE goods in the US will remain strong.. despite the tariffs that raise the prices...

Meanwhile however, Chinese demand for US goods will fall.. as the Chinese consumers don't buy us goods and turn to alternatives or alternate supply chains for the goods the US normally supplies.

So.. when the trade war ends. China will have a bigger trade deficit. Because the US will still thirst for cheap Chinese goods... meanwhile.. US exports to china will have lost market share.

That's fact.. not fear mongering.

Time will tell. The other alternative is with far trade agreements more products manufactured here will be sold here. I can't understand the problem everyone has with leveling the playing field. Of course if all the fear, hate, and bias news are right trump will blow up the world and we don't have to worry about. But so far all their fear mongering has been nothing but hot air.

 

[jaeger19]

I have made a fool out of you but your problem is you are too stubborn to realize it, have a good one, I have decided you aren't worth it

BWWWWAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

:lamo

 

[Conservative]

It seems many democrats were wrong about the stock market, for one example. The market did not crash after Trump was elected as many leftists predicted. Instead, the market boomed. Go figger.

then here is another problem for the left as Trump is about to do something that Obama was incapable of doing for 8 years even coming off a -2.7% GDP growth in 2009

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-gdp-growth-q3-third-quarter-strong-2018-8

 

[Conservative]

Time will tell. The other alternative is with far trade agreements more products manufactured here will be sold here. I can't understand the problem everyone has with leveling the playing field. Of course if all the fear, hate, and bias news are right trump will blow up the world and we don't have to worry about. But so far all their fear mongering has been nothing but hot air.

If Trump has 3.4% GDP growth in this last qtr of fiscal year 2018 he will exceed 3% growth for the year, something Obama never did and Obama had -2.7% growth in 2009 which then should have seen over 3% growth in 2010 but never achieved that number making him the first President in modern history never to have 3% annual growth at any time during his term

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-gdp-growth-q3-third-quarter-strong-2018-8

 

[MTAtech]

He hasn't ****ed it up yet, so I think he should get kudos for that. Yes, he inherited a recovering economy. I think that Trump is the best example that to get ahead, inherit. The slopes of the lines are pretty much the same as they were under Obama, I don't think that Trump has had great influence over these, other than doing enough not to rock those numbers too hard yet. We'll see what happens when we really start feeling the repercussions of Trade War.

But as of now, it looks more like all the changes are consistent with the changes happening under Obama, the economy is moving in the same direction at about the same rate.

Give him time to **** it up. The tariffs are raising costs of consumer goods -- eaten up by any gains from Trump’s tax-cuts; is disrupting supply networks as well as employment. Stern immigration policy is a drag on the economy, as farmers and businesses can’t get workers. So, crops rot and factory output drops. Deficits from the tax-cuts will squeeze private borrowing, raising interest rates.

 

[jaeger19]

Time will tell. The other alternative is with far trade agreements more products manufactured here will be sold here..

Probably not.. because the Chinese can still kick our butts on labor costs. Fair trade isn;t going to stop that. Plus.. at the end of the day.. we want their goods.. and we have the money and the free market to pay more for Chinese goods..

Where Chinese markets are just growing and are under communist control.

I can't understand the problem everyone has with leveling the playing field

Because the way Trump is trying to "level the playing field" is idiotic.

Its going to cause more trouble and more trade imbalance. Oh.. it makes people who are clueless about trade and business.. think "wow..look at him go".. but its going to do more harm than good. Its why the industries that he is supposedly helping.. are opposing his trade war and tariffs.

Quite frankly. just as his immigration policy is going to fall flat on its face because it ignores the fundamental issues with illegal immigration... but boy.. does it get the ignorant going!...

Of course if all the fear, hate, and bias news are right trump will blow up the world and we don't have to worry about.

Really... Who is reporting all that? Seriously man.. you want to talk about fake news... I just googled News/Donald trump. three pages of google and I could not find one news article claiming trump was "going to blow up the world". Heck.. and I think the Al Jezeera network came up. And you make it sound like the news media is blowing up with such articles.

Be a little honest with yourself here.

 

[jaeger19]

Give him time to **** it up. The tariffs are raising costs of consumer goods -- eaten up by any gains from Trump’s tax-cuts; is disrupting supply networks as well as employment. Stern immigration policy is a drag on the economy, as farmers and businesses can’t get workers. So, crops rot and factory output drops. Deficits from the tax-cuts will squeeze private borrowing, raising interest rates.

Yeah.. but a lot of that is small potatoes when you consider the hole the economy was in 7-9 years ago. So.. the correction from that. will still see increasing employment and growth. Which the trumpets will crow about.. not realizing what the numbers should look like without Trump screwing up.

 

[Vadinho]

Trump jumped on Secretariat at the final turn.

 

[btthegreat]

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-09-11/trump-s-economic-record-is-yet-to-be-written

"So I’m not terribly surprised that the economy today looks pretty similar to the economy at the end of the Barack Obama administration. For example, the unemployment rate stands at 3.9 percent, but its 6-percentage-point steady decline began during Obama’s first term.

Or consider the most recent GDP release, which found the economy growing at an annual rate of 4.2 percent. That’s fast growth, to be sure. But the economy enjoyed an annual rate of growth above 4 percent during four quarters of Obama’s presidency.

Trump has been president for 19 months, during which the economy added an average of 189,000 jobs per month. In the final 19 months of the Obama presidency, the economy added 208,000 jobs per month — basically no difference.

I’m going to stop the comparisons here. It’s not good practice to analyze economic data grouped by presidential administration, precisely because the president does not control the economy with a wand, magic or otherwise. And the gist of the major economic indicators confirms the
e story told by the three I’ve discussed above."


Comments?

You are singing my song. This 'on your watch' standard has always been just plain stupid with respect to judging the accomplishments of any administration. We really need to aspire to raising more sophisticated and nuanced thinkers, than comparing the dates of the administration and the dates of occurrences, or more accurately the dates that something good or bad is discovered or reported. We really are smart enough to ask ourselves contextual questions and demand better answers from ourselves. Historians are smart enough to do this, why not us?

We tend to be just as stupid with respect to assessing impact in national security or foreign policy issues.

 

[marke]

then here is another problem for the left as Trump is about to do something that Obama was incapable of doing for 8 years even coming off a -2.7% GDP growth in 2009

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-gdp-growth-q3-third-quarter-strong-2018-8

If it is good, Obama says, "I did that." If it is bad, Hillary and Obama blame "vast deplorable right wing conspiracy" for that. It does not matter when the good or bad took place in time. Obama promised to fix the economy in his first 3 years in office or he would not be worthy of being reelected. How things change. Here it is 10 years later and he wants to take credit for the rebound now even though the boon started after he got out of the way. Go figger.

 

[Conservative]

You are singing my song. This 'on your watch' standard has always been just plain stupid with respect to judging the accomplishments of any administration. We really need to aspire to raising more sophisticated and nuanced thinkers, than comparing the dates of the administration and the dates of occurrences, or more accurately the dates that something good or bad is discovered or reported. We really are smart enough to ask ourselves contextual questions and demand better answers from ourselves. Historians are smart enough to do this, why not us?

We tend to be just as stupid with respect to assessing impact in national security or foreign policy issues.

What is typical of the left is they look at the bottom line and not the context for you see, it doesn't matter to the left how many part time employees for economic reasons there are or what the total under employment is but to the people involved in those numbers it means everything. Obama was a complete and utter failure as the results show but you want badly to believe what you are told. Obama's economy never hit 3%, 6 million jobs were created, and 9.3 trillion added to the debt. You don't stay employed with those numbers except as a liberal where expectations are so low

 

[Fenton]

Trump jumped on Secretariat at the final turn.

Obama taking credit for Trump's economy is absolutely laughable and dishonest. But, this is Obama we're talking about, and integrity was never his strong suit.

The Obama economy was a disaster. Even with the FEDs QE forcing interest rates to record lows, and providing trillions of dollars of liquidity to Banks, and 10t trillion in new eebt , annual GDP never exceeded 2.1%

Corporations sat on trillions of dollars in profits and Banks deposited Trillions of dollars in excess reserves at the FED rather than invest in Obama's economy.

Obama's increased taxes on investors and Dodd-Franks draconian regulations choked off access to credit for small busineses, who were also hit with huge cost increases thanks to ObamaCare.

The ACAs double digit premium and deductable hikes hit middle class Americans the hardest. Obama was more concerned with empty Left wing redistributive plattitudes than growing the economy and the middle class, and it showed

He was a one man wrecking crew and American voters responded by removing Democrats from power at the local, State and Federal level. Only Bernie Sanders could out do Obama, let's hope he never gets a chance

 

[Fenton]

You are singing my song. This 'on your watch' standard has always been just plain stupid with respect to judging the accomplishments of any administration. We really need to aspire to raising more sophisticated and nuanced thinkers, than comparing the dates of the administration and the dates of occurrences, or more accurately the dates that something good or bad is discovered or reported. We really are smart enough to ask ourselves contextual questions and demand better answers from ourselves. Historians are smart enough to do this, why not us?

We tend to be just as stupid with respect to assessing impact in national security or foreign policy issues.

The impact of Obama and his policies on the US economy is hard to miss.
Annual GDP never exceeded 2.1 %, and that was with unprecedented monetary intervention, record low interest rates, 10 trillion dollars in new debt and the Banks having access to to Trillions of dollars in new liquidity

Banks deposited over 4 trillion dollars at the FED where it sat as " excess reserves " earning .25% and Corporations parked trillions of dollars offshore and used QEs record low interest rates to access to cheap credit and buy back shares
Banks and investors and corporations reacted to Obama's tax and economic policies by sitting on their profits and principle.

Small businesses were hit with crippling healthcare cost increases and new Banking regulations choked off access to much needed credit while the Middle class bore the brunt of the ACAs double digit rate and deductable hikes

Obama was far more concerned with pushing empty Left wing plattitudes and redistribution than he was growing the American economy and it showed.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Probably not.. because the Chinese can still kick our butts on labor costs. Fair trade isn;t going to stop that. Plus.. at the end of the day.. we want their goods.. and we have the money and the free market to pay more for Chinese goods..

Where Chinese markets are just growing and are under communist control.

Because the way Trump is trying to "level the playing field" is idiotic.

Its going to cause more trouble and more trade imbalance. Oh.. it makes people who are clueless about trade and business.. think "wow..look at him go".. but its going to do more harm than good. Its why the industries that he is supposedly helping.. are opposing his trade war and tariffs.

Quite frankly. just as his immigration policy is going to fall flat on its face because it ignores the fundamental issues with illegal immigration... but boy.. does it get the ignorant going!...



Really... Who is reporting all that? Seriously man.. you want to talk about fake news... I just googled News/Donald trump. three pages of google and I could not find one news article claiming trump was "going to blow up the world". Heck.. and I think the Al Jezeera network came up. And you make it sound like the news media is blowing up with such articles.

Be a little honest with yourself here.

We will see. These policies could take years to see the end results. Look at NAFTA that Clinton passed. It was supposed to raise wages in Mexico creating a market for our goods and services. How did that work out? Where were the unions and the democrats yelling the sky is falling. Oh wait it was a bad idea when Bush was pushing it. But when passed by Clinton it was great ideas just a year later. We saw how great it was as all our industry moved south and we had the crash of 2002. Save the sky is falling for real danger. Leveling the playing field and making better trade deals for this country is not to be feared.

 

[jaeger19]

We will see. These policies could take years to see the end results. Look at NAFTA that Clinton passed. It was supposed to raise wages in Mexico creating a market for our goods and services. How did that work out? Where were the unions and the democrats yelling the sky is falling. Oh wait it was a bad idea when Bush was pushing it. But when passed by Clinton it was great ideas just a year later. We saw how great it was as all our industry moved south and we had the crash of 2002. Save the sky is falling for real danger. .

Well right.. so maybe we should be just a little objective about looking at how these things shake out.. rather than do what you are doing.. which is assume that Trump is doing great things.

Leveling the playing field and making better trade deals for this country is not to be feared

Right.. you realize that you just made an argument that it was to be feared.. and now its not to be feared. You just brought about NAFTA and how it was supposed to bring about fair trade and free trade and raise wages and create a wonderful market for our goods and services..


And what happened? Not so good right?

And there were industry experts saying... "whoa now.. this is not going to work how you say it is"... And what were they told? why are you against level playing fields?

But then... Trump says basically the same thing.. "look how we are going to have fair trade and a level playing field"... and people suck it up like a kitten slurping up warm milk.

Regardless of what the experts say will happen.. regardless of what common business sense will say what will happen.

Oh and you make a good point here.. about:

These policies could take years to see the end results

Except that's not what Trump is saying.. he is saying he is going to fix it now.

So.. knowing that no one is going to know the ultimate effect until years later.. does it not stand to reason that one possible reason that Trump is doing his trade war is because its popular with his base now.. knowing that he won't be held accountable for its effects later?

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Well right.. so maybe we should be just a little objective about looking at how these things shake out.. rather than do what you are doing.. which is assume that Trump is doing great things.



Right.. you realize that you just made an argument that it was to be feared.. and now its not to be feared. You just brought about NAFTA and how it was supposed to bring about fair trade and free trade and raise wages and create a wonderful market for our goods and services..


And what happened? Not so good right?

And there were industry experts saying... "whoa now.. this is not going to work how you say it is"... And what were they told? why are you against level playing fields?

But then... Trump says basically the same thing.. "look how we are going to have fair trade and a level playing field"... and people suck it up like a kitten slurping up warm milk.

Regardless of what the experts say will happen.. regardless of what common business sense will say what will happen.

Oh and you make a good point here.. about:

Except that's not what Trump is saying.. he is saying he is going to fix it now.

So.. knowing that no one is going to know the ultimate effect until years later.. does it not stand to reason that one possible reason that Trump is doing his trade war is because its popular with his base now.. knowing that he won't be held accountable for its effects later?

He is making the changes now or fixing the trade imbalances now. Why wait a hundred years. Like the Hoover Dam or the highway system it takes decades to reap the rewards but the time to start the project is now. The only problem today is once the other party gets in office the first thing they do is undermine all progress from the previous administration. We need leaders that are willing to do what is best for the people and to hell with all these party puppets and their party blind followers. I say the best thing for this country is for both parties to go the way of the dinosaurs along with their followers.

 

[btthegreat]

The impact of Obama and his policies on the US economy is hard to miss.
Annual GDP never exceeded 2.1 %, and that was with unprecedented monetary intervention, record low interest rates, 10 trillion dollars in new debt and the Banks having access to to Trillions of dollars in new liquidity

Banks deposited over 4 trillion dollars at the FED where it sat as " excess reserves " earning .25% and Corporations parked trillions of dollars offshore and used QEs record low interest rates to access to cheap credit and buy back shares
Banks and investors and corporations reacted to Obama's tax and economic policies by sitting on their profits and principle.

Small businesses were hit with crippling healthcare cost increases and new Banking regulations choked off access to much needed credit while the Middle class bore the brunt of the ACAs double digit rate and deductable hikes

Obama was far more concerned with pushing empty Left wing plattitudes and redistribution than he was growing the American economy and it showed.

Did you see me mention Obama in my post? I wrote it intentionally without referencing any specific administration or set of stats.

 

[btthegreat]

The impact of Obama and his policies on the US economy is hard to miss.
Annual GDP never exceeded 2.1 %, and that was with unprecedented monetary intervention, record low interest rates, 10 trillion dollars in new debt and the Banks having access to to Trillions of dollars in new liquidity

Banks deposited over 4 trillion dollars at the FED where it sat as " excess reserves " earning .25% and Corporations parked trillions of dollars offshore and used QEs record low interest rates to access to cheap credit and buy back shares
Banks and investors and corporations reacted to Obama's tax and economic policies by sitting on their profits and principle.

Small businesses were hit with crippling healthcare cost increases and new Banking regulations choked off access to much needed credit while the Middle class bore the brunt of the ACAs double digit rate and deductable hikes

Obama was far more concerned with pushing empty Left wing plattitudes and redistribution than he was growing the American economy and it showed.

Did you see me mention Obama in my post? I intentionally left mine a far broader point than any administration or statistic could contain.

 

[Vadinho]

Trump does not know the difference between micro and macro economics. He jumped on Secretariat ten yards from the finish line. If you people think tax cuts are the only thing that drives a macro economy, you don't understand macro.

 

[Bullseye]

Trump does not know the difference between micro and macro economics. He jumped on Secretariat ten yards from the finish line. If you people think tax cuts are the only thing that drives a macro economy, you don't understand macro.

LOL, "jumped on Secretariat . . ."? Seriously? You're comparing the worst recovering in decades to the perform of a Triple Crown winner? Academic jabberwocky like "micro" and "macro" mean little outside a college campus. Try terms like record job opening creation, lower poverty level, over a million involuntary part-timers now working full time, companies waiving college degree requirements to keep up with demand. Oh, and a 45% stock market gain, millions with higher wages, better benefits, record low new unemployment claims; I could go on and on, but I think the point is clear. You're Ivory Tower babble means little in the real world.

 

[Vadinho]

LOL, "jumped on Secretariat . . ."? Seriously? You're comparing the worst recovering in decades to the perform of a Triple Crown winner? Academic jabberwocky like "micro" and "macro" mean little outside a college campus. Try terms like record job opening creation, lower poverty level, over a million involuntary part-timers now working full time, companies waiving college degree requirements to keep up with demand. Oh, and a 45% stock market gain, millions with higher wages, better benefits, record low new unemployment claims; I could go on and on, but I think the point is clear. You're Ivory Tower babble means little in the real world.

Perfect example of Trumpian economics, micro and macro are academic jabber wocky...man, this is right up there with "take your government hands off my Medicare". Thanks for the laughs.

 

[Conservative]

Perfect example of Trumpian economics, micro and macro are academic jabber wocky...man, this is right up there with "take your government hands off my Medicare". Thanks for the laughs.

SO Mr/Ms Very Liberal please post the official data to support your claims vs. just rhetoric and anti Trump sentiment? Nothing like a very liberal person spouting anti Trump rhetoric and opinions without back up thus another liberal with zero credibility. Results matter not your opinions