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How Much Credit Does Trump Deserve for the Strong Economy?

Conservative said:
SO Mr/Ms Very Liberal please post the official data to support your claims vs. just rhetoric and anti Trump sentiment? Nothing like a very liberal person spouting anti Trump rhetoric and opinions without back up thus another liberal with zero credibility. Results matter not your opinions
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You want me to teach you the difference between micro and macro economics? Hilarious. I suggest taking an econ class or two. You folks crack me up, its a cult for the uneducated apparently.
 
Vadinho said:
You want me to teach you the difference between micro and macro economics? Hilarious. I suggest taking an econ class or two. You folks crack me up, its a cult for the uneducated apparently.
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I doubt seriously with your ideology that you could teach anyone anything other than someone else from the radical left who wants to believe what you say anyway.

Do you want me to teach you the difference between a full-time employee and a part-time employee for economic reasons?

Do you want me to teach you the difference between a pro growth economic policy and a pro public sector economic policy?

Or better yet do you want me to teach you the difference between actual sources for data and partisan sources?

Do you want me to teach you the four components of economic growth and what percentage they contribute?

Do you actually believe that the American people give a damn about the difference between macro and microeconomics? You people are so out of touch with reality that it is truly scary

Let me know I am certainly here to help you

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
Vadinho said:
Perfect example of Trumpian economics, micro and macro are academic jabber wocky...man, this is right up there with "take your government hands off my Medicare". Thanks for the laughs.
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Perfect example of "who you gonna believe? academic puffery, or your lyin' eyes". :lamo
 
KLATTU said:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-09-11/trump-s-economic-record-is-yet-to-be-written

"So I’m not terribly surprised that the economy today looks pretty similar to the economy at the end of the Barack Obama administration. For example, the unemployment rate stands at 3.9 percent, but its 6-percentage-point steady decline began during Obama’s first term.

Or consider the most recent GDP release, which found the economy growing at an annual rate of 4.2 percent. That’s fast growth, to be sure. But the economy enjoyed an annual rate of growth above 4 percent during four quarters of Obama’s presidency.

Trump has been president for 19 months, during which the economy added an average of 189,000 jobs per month. In the final 19 months of the Obama presidency, the economy added 208,000 jobs per month — basically no difference.

I’m going to stop the comparisons here. It’s not good practice to analyze economic data grouped by presidential administration, precisely because the president does not control the economy with a wand, magic or otherwise. And the gist of the major economic indicators confirms the
e story told by the three I’ve discussed above."


Comments?
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Trump deserves no credit for the long lasting trends in the economy, but he certainly deserves the blame for the soaring deficit.
 
Don't forget the reduction in food stamp recipients, record low levels of minority unemployment and the significantly improved labor participation rate. Almost simultaneously with Trump's election the began raising interest rates as a way to create a headwind for economic growth. Under Obama the Fed pumped trillions into the economy to puff up the so-called recovery. But hey, Trump is just riding the effect of the magic wand Obama mocked him for before declaring the kind of improvement we are seeing was impossible.
 
Spoken like a true rabid Resistance zealot. The long lasting economic trends Obama engineered were exemplified by a new GDP growth norm of 2% or less and record numbers of food stamp recipients. Thanks to Obamacare full time employment was downsized to 28 hours per week an over 25% reduction. thanks to Obama's disinterest in fiscal responsibility the US suffered its first ever credit downgrade.
 
KLATTU said:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-09-11/trump-s-economic-record-is-yet-to-be-written

"So I’m not terribly surprised that the economy today looks pretty similar to the economy at the end of the Barack Obama administration. For example, the unemployment rate stands at 3.9 percent, but its 6-percentage-point steady decline began during Obama’s first term.

Or consider the most recent GDP release, which found the economy growing at an annual rate of 4.2 percent. That’s fast growth, to be sure. But the economy enjoyed an annual rate of growth above 4 percent during four quarters of Obama’s presidency.

Trump has been president for 19 months, during which the economy added an average of 189,000 jobs per month. In the final 19 months of the Obama presidency, the economy added 208,000 jobs per month — basically no difference.

I’m going to stop the comparisons here. It’s not good practice to analyze economic data grouped by presidential administration, precisely because the president does not control the economy with a wand, magic or otherwise. And the gist of the major economic indicators confirms the
e story told by the three I’ve discussed above."


Comments?
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The economy is much like the weather, it does pretty much what it wants to do when it wants to do it. I think presidents can play around the edges of the economy, but certainly can't control it. If a president could control the economy, we'd have nothing but good times with no bad times. No president would ever bring a depression or a recession on themselves.

How much credit or blame does a president deserve for a good economy or a bad one? Probably not much if any at all. Now any sitting president will take all the credit for a good economy, so I see nothing wrong in placing the blame for a bad economy on a president when that happens. In reality, a president has very little to do with either one.

I do however think a president can prolong a recession through his actions, stopping the recession from bottoming out when it would if no action was taken at all. I think each recession must run it course, hit bottom before it can rebound.

Keep in mind that I'm no financial guru, just adding my two cents worth.
 
Perotista said:
The economy is much like the weather, it does pretty much what it wants to do when it wants to do it. I think presidents can play around the edges of the economy, but certainly can't control it. If a president could control the economy, we'd have nothing but good times with no bad times. No president would ever bring a depression or a recession on themselves.

How much credit or blame does a president deserve for a good economy or a bad one? Probably not much if any at all. Now any sitting president will take all the credit for a good economy, so I see nothing wrong in placing the blame for a bad economy on a president when that happens. In reality, a president has very little to do with either one.

I do however think a president can prolong a recession through his actions, stopping the recession from bottoming out when it would if no action was taken at all. I think each recession must run it course, hit bottom before it can rebound.

Keep in mind that I'm no financial guru, just adding my two cents worth.
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Keynes would argue with you, monetary policy does affect the economy. As for growth though, depends upon the cycle does it not? Providing extra demand in a weak economy will spur growth. This is standard econ folks, at least it was when I was in college in the 70s. Guess Uncle Miltie indoctrinated an entire generation with his bull.
 
Vadinho said:
Keynes would argue with you, monetary policy does affect the economy. As for growth though, depends upon the cycle does it not? Providing extra demand in a weak economy will spur growth. This is standard econ folks, at least it was when I was in college in the 70s. Guess Uncle Miltie indoctrinated an entire generation with his bull.
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And Keynes would be wrong.
I used to think Japan was the biggest example of the failure of demand side Keynesian economics.
Japan stuck to the Keynesian play book by the letter. In the 90s they blew through 10 seperate fiscal stimulus initiatives totalling over 100 trillion Yen

All it did was stimulate their debt while their economy continued to struggle. Now Japan has the highest debt to GDP ratio among developed Nations.

Obama's economic failure may give them a run for their money. 10 trillion in new spending AND 8 year's of unprecedented FED monetary intervention which included record low interest rates, and trillions of dollars in new liquidity and his annual GDP % average never exceeded 2.1%

As it turns out, it takes more than trillions of dollars in new debt and 8 year's of zero interest rate policies to grow a economy.
Demand side with monetary intervention leads to stagnation and massive new debt, go figure.
 
Fenton said:
And Keynes would be wrong.
I used to think Japan was the biggest example of the failure of demand side Keynesian economics.
Japan stuck to the Keynesian play book by the letter. In the 90s they blew through 10 seperate fiscal stimulus initiatives totalling over 100 trillion Yen

All it did was stimulate their debt while their economy continued to struggle. Now Japan has the highest debt to GDP ratio among developed Nations.

Obama's economic failure may give them a run for their money. 10 trillion in new spending AND 8 year's of unprecedented FED monetary intervention which included record low interest rates, and trillions of dollars in new liquidity and his annual GDP % average never exceeded 2.1%

As it turns out, it takes more than trillions of dollars in new debt and 8 year's of zero interest rate policies to grow a economy.
Demand side with monetary intervention leads to stagnation and massive new debt, go figure.
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All that sounds wonderful but it does not predict anything, it merely supports an economic ideology that never seems to come true. Japan is doing fine despite your admonitions.
 
 
 
OpportunityCost said:
You aren't looking at the articles very well. The Brookings institute article in particular noted that their corporate and financial structure is hobbling their growth.

More evidence: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/18/business/international/tepid-economic-growth-in-japan.html

1% growth is not fine.
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It beats negative growth. Using these type of metrics to determine quality of life issues is misleading. Japanese live a very good life, have universal health care and can afford a new blue suit every year.
 
Vadinho said:
It beats negative growth. Using these type of metrics to determine quality of life issues is misleading. Japanese live a very good life, have universal health care and can afford a new blue suit every year.
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All while the economic and financial path they have chosen isn't working. Its not fine.
 
KLATTU said:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-09-11/trump-s-economic-record-is-yet-to-be-written

"So I’m not terribly surprised that the economy today looks pretty similar to the economy at the end of the Barack Obama administration. For example, the unemployment rate stands at 3.9 percent, but its 6-percentage-point steady decline began during Obama’s first term.

Or consider the most recent GDP release, which found the economy growing at an annual rate of 4.2 percent. That’s fast growth, to be sure. But the economy enjoyed an annual rate of growth above 4 percent during four quarters of Obama’s presidency.

Trump has been president for 19 months, during which the economy added an average of 189,000 jobs per month. In the final 19 months of the Obama presidency, the economy added 208,000 jobs per month — basically no difference.

I’m going to stop the comparisons here. It’s not good practice to analyze economic data grouped by presidential administration, precisely because the president does not control the economy with a wand, magic or otherwise. And the gist of the major economic indicators confirms the
e story told by the three I’ve discussed above."


Comments?
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Trump Deserves All of it!!!!! Under Obamafail he doubled the national debt, he borrowed and spent more than all the presidents before him combined. And your comparing 8 yrs vs 19 months. The downside of Obamafail's economy we have to pay back the 10 trillion. And I do not agree that Obamafail enjoyed an annual growth rate above 4%. Annual means just that annual, thus you take a 12 month average.

And the president can control the economy, Obamafail spent 10 trillion to boost the economy that you give him credit for. But say nothing of the money he spent that others will have to pay back. And when you put restrictions on companies by regulations is hurting business not helping. Obamafail killing coal and oil exploration kills business etc. Obamafail said those factory jobs will not return. So the president has a big hand in our economy. Under Trump he has taken off the shackle of business and factory jobs are coming back, Christ you know the rest, you don't get to 3.9% unemployment rate by choking business, but by unleashing business. And for Christ sake that does not mean we're drinking dirty water, or sucking in more smog.
 
Born Free said:
Trump Deserves All of it!!!!! Under Obamafail he doubled the national debt, he borrowed and spent more than all the presidents before him combined. And your comparing 8 yrs vs 19 months. The downside of Obamafail's economy we have to pay back the 10 trillion. And I do not agree that Obamafail enjoyed an annual growth rate above 4%. Annual means just that annual, thus you take a 12 month average.

And the president can control the economy, Obamafail spent 10 trillion to boost the economy that you give him credit for. But say nothing of the money he spent that others will have to pay back. And when you put restrictions on companies by regulations is hurting business not helping. Obamafail killing coal and oil exploration kills business etc. Obamafail said those factory jobs will not return. So the president has a big hand in our economy. Under Trump he has taken off the shackle of business and factory jobs are coming back, Christ you know the rest, you don't get to 3.9% unemployment rate by choking business, but by unleashing business. And for Christ sake that does not mean we're drinking dirty water, or sucking in more smog.
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Agree. And we know that the Stock market was booming directly attributed to the tax cuts and business friendly policy implemented by Trump. I've not seen Obama worshippers explain what he did other than take credit for a good stock market. I believe he was just lucky that the FED never raised interest rates during his term which left investors nowhere else to put their money. I mean unless you left it in the bank for .010% interest.
 
recovery was going well under Obama

Trump is creating a debt fueled bubble.

you better be dragging one foot and be ready to jump off the train

like bush's bubble this one is going to burst.

wonder what it will cost to bail out the rich this time.
 
rickc said:
recovery was going well under Obama

Trump is creating a debt fueled bubble.

you better be dragging one foot and be ready to jump off the train

like bush's bubble this one is going to burst.

wonder what it will cost to bail out the rich this time.
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So recovery going well under Obama based upon what official data? why are you even in a debate forum as you bring nothing to the table other than partisan rhetoric never supported by facts. Is this your idea of doing well under Obama?

Is 1.6% GDP growth in 2016 and 1.2% growth first qtr 2017 an indication of an economy doing well? These are the official numbers verifiable at BEA.gov but for some reason basic data has no place in that liberal mind of yours.

Either refute the data or admit you are wrong and don't have a clue how our govt. works? Either refute the data or admit you never took a civics class to understand the three equal branches of the federal govt. and their role? Either refute the data or stop allowing the left to manipulate and indoctrinate you?


Table 1.1.1. Percent Change From Preceding Period in Real Gross Domestic Product
[Percent]
Bureau of Economic Analysis
Last Revised on: July 27, 2018 - Next Release Date August 29, 2018

Line 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016
Line
1 Gross domestic product -0.1 -2.5 2.6 1.6 2.2 1.8 2.5 2.9 1.6


Table 1.1.1. Percent Change From Preceding Period in Real Gross Domestic Product
[Percent]
Bureau of Economic Analysis
Last Revised on: July 27, 2018 - Next Release Date August 29, 2018

Line 1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988
Line
1 Gross domestic product -0.3 2.5 -1.8 4.6 7.2 4.2 3.5 3.5 4.2
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Conservative said:
So recovery going well under Obama based upon what official data? why are you even in a debate forum as you bring nothing to the table other than partisan rhetoric never supported by facts. Is this your idea of doing well under Obama?

Is 1.6% GDP growth in 2016 and 1.2% growth first qtr 2017 an indication of an economy doing well? These are the official numbers verifiable at BEA.gov but for some reason basic data has no place in that liberal mind of yours.

Either refute the data or admit you are wrong and don't have a clue how our govt. works? Either refute the data or admit you never took a civics class to understand the three equal branches of the federal govt. and their role? Either refute the data or stop allowing the left to manipulate and indoctrinate you?
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well don't ever say i didn't warn you

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...when-americas-stock-market-bubble-bursts/amp/
 
rickc said:
well don't ever say i didn't warn you

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...when-americas-stock-market-bubble-bursts/amp/
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Thanks for the gloom and doom warning and for ignoring the official financial results we have today. Only if the Democrats regain power and reverse the strong economic policies being implemented will that happen. Bubbles aren't being created as companies are adding value and net worth to their businesses. You on the other hand pray for failure for some reason which you will never explain

Why don't you tell me exactly what you want the Democrats to do, raise taxes? How does that help grow the economy? Do you understand what creates corporate value and a growing stock market, tax increases?

seems all I see from you is whining and complaining never any solutions to the problems you see existing. Seems rather disturbing that all this whining and complaining about the current economic results.
 
Conservative said:
Thanks for the gloom and doom warning and for ignoring the official financial results we have today. Only if the Democrats regain power and reverse the strong economic policies being implemented will that happen. Bubbles aren't being created as companies are adding value and net worth to their businesses. You on the other hand pray for failure for some reason which you will never explain

Why don't you tell me exactly what you want the Democrats to do, raise taxes? How does that help grow the economy? Do you understand what creates corporate value and a growing stock market, tax increases?

seems all I see from you is whining and complaining never any solutions to the problems you see existing. Seems rather disturbing that all this whining and complaining about the current economic results.
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you just refuse to accept the solutions i propose.

like i said we just see completely different pictures

Trump and the republicans in congress are following the same path bush did. Could be you are correct in the fact that the bubble won't burst until democrats are elected then you can do like you do with Obama and blame it on the democrats

what started the collapse of the house of cards under bush was when the fed started raising interest rates.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/284054/

this time when cheap money drys up you better be ready.
 
rickc said:
you just refuse to accept the solutions i propose.

like i said we just see completely different pictures

Trump and the republicans in congress are following the same path bush did. Could be you are correct in the fact that the bubble won't burst until democrats are elected then you can do like you do with Obama and blame it on the democrats

what started the collapse of the house of cards under bush was when the fed started raising interest rates.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/284054/

this time when cheap money drys up you better be ready.
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Really, so you believe Trump is following Bush's policies? And exactly what policies would those be? You seem to have a different set of priorities which entail bigger government, higher taxes, and more Federal social spending. Tell me exactly how that helps the economy?

I have seen absolutely no proposals from you at all nor have I seen you explain which of the Republican policies and economic results you believe the Democrats could have done a better job implementing or creating

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Conservative said:
Really, so you believe Trump is following Bush's policies? And exactly what policies would those be? You seem to have a different set of priorities which entail bigger government, higher taxes, and more Federal social spending. Tell me exactly how that helps the economy?

I have seen absolutely no proposals from you at all nor have I seen you explain which of the Republican policies and economic results you believe the Democrats could have done a better job implementing or creating

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Oh by the way I have posted a link after link showing when the financial bubble started and at least 25 people who were responsible for it. You choose to blame Bush because of the partisan blinders you have and the indoctrination you've received from the media.

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Figures, stealing credit due a black man is just what one would expect from Trump and his minions.
 
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