How Much Credit Does Trump Deserve for the Strong Economy?

[Conservative]

I posted charts and numbers. July has already happened, and we saw the trade deficit widen in July. So that's not a "may happen", that's a "did happen". Posted the bailouts already happening because of Trade War...again those HAVE happened. The small businesses closing. Again HAS happened.

You can stand by anything Trump says, it's not solid ground given the amount he lies. But the numbers are clear. Same slope as when under Obama, Trade War is causing the need for bailouts and is starting to crush small businesses. These are results happening now. Bury your head in the sand, I expect no different from partisans, but we'll see how it all plays out. Hopefully it won't explode in our faces, but there seems to be very little guarantee of that.

No unlike you I trust the rhetoric but then verify it, I stand by the RESULTS not the rhetoric. Same slope different context and as I have stated I doubt that any private sector business would have kept you employed with the results generated by Obama due mostly to the cost of generating that so called trend that never truly got us back to Pre recession levels. Generating 6 million jobs in 9 years from the 146 million in January 2008 at a cost of trillions added to the debt would have cost you your job in the private sector but is touted now by the radicals who don't understand context and always buy rhetoric

 

[Ikari]

No unlike you I trust the rhetoric but then verify it, I stand by the RESULTS not the rhetoric. Same slope different context and as I have stated I doubt that any private sector business would have kept you employed with the results generated by Obama due mostly to the cost of generating that so called trend that never truly got us back to Pre recession levels. Generating 6 million jobs in 9 years from the 146 million in January 2008 at a cost of trillions added to the debt would have cost you your job in the private sector but is touted now by the radicals who don't understand context and always buy rhetoric

Well the RESULTS are that the slopes are the same from Obama to Trump. The RESULTS are 12 billion in farm bailouts. The RESULTS are closing small businesses. The RESULTS are widening trade deficit.

So I think you are far more in for the rhetoric than the results. Trump is projected to hit Obama's added deficit numbers in 4 years, half the time of Obama.

lol

For "results", lol, right. You're for whatever spin and narrative Trump tells you to spin.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Actually its in spite of what trump has done.. which is to somewhat undermine confidence because of his ill advised and ignorant trade war which even American companies he is supposedly protecting.. don;t want.

Which ultimately was misplaced fear.

Wow.. I am not sure what the heck you are watching but it certainly isn;t any relevant news. Companies are looking at ways to go overseas to avoid tariffs and deal with Trumps trade war. Companies like my agro company are worried that when the trade war is over.. we will have lost markets as our customers overseas have started to look for alternative sources for products or alternatives altogether. The longer the trade wars last..the more that our overseas customers will learn to adjust to less us supply.. and thus demand for our supply will drop.
Then there is the fear of his immigration games.. which can disrupt labor.. legal labor for my agro business.

Honestly,.. trump isn;t putting America first.. at all.. he is putting himself first at the expense of American business.

It is the bias news that is promoting the fear and hate. They have already blamed him for the hurricane. They have already blamed him for the devastation such unprecedented rainfall can bring to this area before it even happened. They accused him of getting us into a world war when he ran for president. The fear mongering of having his finger on the button. It is the delusional Hillary thinking people are shooting at her that we should fear. Nothing but lies, fear mongering, and the promoting of hate. I get it. He is not a bought paid for party puppet of the rich and powerful. It is obvious the rich and powerful will continue to use their media to hurt him in any way possible. The fear by the rich and powerful that we finally have a president that will put the interest of the people first is clear.

FEMA has been dispatched to every major disaster in this country for decades. The failures attributed to FEMA are always the product of inept local governments inability to use this vital resource. FEMA is always turned over to the local authorities. FEMA doesn't work harder for Houston than Puerto Rico. The difference is Houston has a strong infrastructure, good leaders, and determined people that are willing to do what it takes to get things done. Everybody is pulling on the rope in the same direction. Sorry but Puerto Rica will never recover because they are waiting for someone to do it for them.

 

[Logician Man]

It is the bias news that is promoting the fear and hate. They have already blamed him for the hurricane. They have already blamed him for the devastation such unprecedented rainfall can bring to this area before it even happened. They accused him of getting us into a world war when he ran for president. The fear mongering of having his finger on the button. It is the delusional Hillary thinking people are shooting at her that we should fear. Nothing but lies, fear mongering, and the promoting of hate. I get it. He is not a bought paid for party puppet of the rich and powerful. It is obvious the rich and powerful will continue to use their media to hurt him in any way possible. The fear by the rich and powerful that we finally have a president that will put the interest of the people first is clear.

FEMA has been dispatched to every major disaster in this country for decades. The failures attributed to FEMA are always the product of inept local governments inability to use this vital resource. FEMA is always turned over to the local authorities. FEMA doesn't work harder for Houston than Puerto Rico. The difference is Houston has a strong infrastructure, good leaders, and determined people that are willing to do what it takes to get things done. Everybody is pulling on the rope in the same direction. Sorry but Puerto Rica will never recover because they are waiting for someone to do it for them.

:lamo

 

[Conservative]

Well the RESULTS are that the slopes are the same from Obama to Trump. The RESULTS are 12 billion in farm bailouts. The RESULTS are closing small businesses. The RESULTS are widening trade deficit.

So I think you are far more in for the rhetoric than the results. Trump is projected to hit Obama's added deficit numbers in 4 years, half the time of Obama.

lol

For "results", lol, right. You're for whatever spin and narrative Trump tells you to spin.

12 billion is a drop in the bucket for our 4 TRILLION DOLLAR govt. and again PROJECTIONS are all that matter to you. What does your crystal ball say about job creation, productivity and GDP growth?

As posted the trade deficit is narrowing but then again you don't like actual data and prefer PROJECTIONS but only when negative against Trump. What is it about liberalism that only promotes negativity?

 

[Ikari]

12 billion is a drop in the bucket for our 4 TRILLION DOLLAR govt. and again PROJECTIONS are all that matter to you. What does your crystal ball say about job creation, productivity and GDP growth?

As posted the trade deficit is narrowing but then again you don't like actual data and prefer PROJECTIONS but only when negative against Trump. What is it about liberalism that only promotes negativity?

I know y'all don't really care about spending. We're going to see where job creation lands, Trump is at 2.9% aggregate for GDP right now, we'll see what can be sustained.

As posted, the trade deficit is widening. But then against I did use ACTUAL data from July, instead of data from May and PRETENDING the data from May is still valid. lol

What is it about blind, hyperpartisan "conservatism" that only promotes deception?

 

[jaeger19]

Yes it was but keeping ignoring context, 9 years at a cost of well over 9.3 trillion dollars to get to this level that still didn't get back to pre recession levels. Such low expectations you have. You would have never kept your job in the private sector with this kind of performance. Obama was hired to get us back to pre recession levels and then to grow, he failed but not in the liberal fantasy world

Look at you waffle. Dude you just got slammed. "yes yes yes sure its the same as Obama's.. but now look at context".

Sure lets look at context. Trump inherited the recovered economy from Obama.. and has continued the same trend.

Obama inherited an economy that had imploded.. ...big difference there.

Then.. you ask "why wasn't it back to pre recession levels? Well.. prior to the recession.. we were in an economic boom.. which in part precipitated such a huge crash. It was an overheated economy.. driven by excessive borrowing and banking shenanigans..

that's just the facts.

So.. you have ignored your own data.. and ignored the context of that data.

Cue the "but you are lefty blah blah blah"... that seems your go to every time you are proven wrong.

 

[jaeger19]

I know y'all don't really care about spending. We're going to see where job creation lands, Trump is at 2.9% aggregate for GDP right now, we'll see what can be sustained.

As posted, the trade deficit is widening. But then against I did use ACTUAL data from July, instead of data from May and PRETENDING the data from May is still valid. lol

What is it about blind, hyperpartisan "conservatism" that only promotes deception?

Stupidity?

(I like that you put conservatism in quotes..)

 

[jaeger19]

It is the bias news that is promoting the fear and hate. .

Load of crap. Come on man.. Don't you see that this "the media is the enemy of they people".. and "fake news".. is just a smoke screen? There is real fear among business that the trade war will end up ultimately hurting business. Its already negatively affecting agro business and a whole host of other industries. That's not made up fear.. that's reality.
So what do you do in response to that fact? Start bringing up nonsense about "blaming him for a hurricane".. and "Hillary thinking people".. And now FEMA..

Seriously.. I brought up business and the trade war..

And you bring up hurricanes, Hillary and FEMA? You need to get real.

 

[Conservative]

I know y'all don't really care about spending. We're going to see where job creation lands, Trump is at 2.9% aggregate for GDP right now, we'll see what can be sustained.

As posted, the trade deficit is widening. But then against I did use ACTUAL data from July, instead of data from May and PRETENDING the data from May is still valid. lol

What is it about blind, hyperpartisan "conservatism" that only promotes deception?

Unlike you I understand the items in the budget and what truly adds to the deficit. I also understand that the establishment on both sides of the aisle are the problem along with radicals who continue to prop up failure. This thread is about whether Trump should get credit for the economy and I stand by the results posted. Those are the results on his scorecard and the context shows results much better than anything Obama generated. Trends are irrelevant out of context. When you have so many part time employees and such poor full time job creation that skews the employment/unemployment data. Full time better paying jobs increase federal income tax revenue and that reduces the deficit

 

[Conservative]

Look at you waffle. Dude you just got slammed. "yes yes yes sure its the same as Obama's.. but now look at context".

Sure lets look at context. Trump inherited the recovered economy from Obama.. and has continued the same trend.

Obama inherited an economy that had imploded.. ...big difference there.

Then.. you ask "why wasn't it back to pre recession levels? Well.. prior to the recession.. we were in an economic boom.. which in part precipitated such a huge crash. It was an overheated economy.. driven by excessive borrowing and banking shenanigans..

that's just the facts.

So.. you have ignored your own data.. and ignored the context of that data.

Cue the "but you are lefty blah blah blah"... that seems your go to every time you are proven wrong.

The Trump results stand as posted, you don't like it, take it up with BLS.gov, BEA.gov. and Treasury.org. It isn't my data it is the official data and no matter how many times I have to say it your interpretation doesn't change the numbers for it is the numbers we pay debt service on. You can explain away the numbers and believe we would get more revenue without the tax cuts but that doesn't change the reality that we are GETTING INCREASED FIT REVENUE WITH THE TAX CUTS!!!

I went back to pre recession numbers because that is what Obama was hired to return us to and failed miserably. the Obama results also speak for themselves but you can explain those results away as well. I have yet to be proven wrong as you have posted no official data to do so, only opinions of economists

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

:lamo

Can't make any argument against the facts I see.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Load of crap. Come on man.. Don't you see that this "the media is the enemy of they people".. and "fake news".. is just a smoke screen? There is real fear among business that the trade war will end up ultimately hurting business. Its already negatively affecting agro business and a whole host of other industries. That's not made up fear.. that's reality.
So what do you do in response to that fact? Start bringing up nonsense about "blaming him for a hurricane".. and "Hillary thinking people".. And now FEMA..

Seriously.. I brought up business and the trade war..

And you bring up hurricanes, Hillary and FEMA? You need to get real.

The people of this country are not going to stop buying goods and services so yes this is nothing but fear mongering. That is the facts straight up and simple. Save it for the clueless.

 

[Ikari]

Unlike you I understand the items in the budget and what truly adds to the deficit. I also understand that the establishment on both sides of the aisle are the problem along with radicals who continue to prop up failure. This thread is about whether Trump should get credit for the economy and I stand by the results posted. Those are the results on his scorecard and the context shows results much better than anything Obama generated. Trends are irrelevant out of context. When you have so many part time employees and such poor full time job creation that skews the employment/unemployment data. Full time better paying jobs increase federal income tax revenue and that reduces the deficit

Yes, he has continued along the same slope Obama ended with. So kudos on not messing it up too much. But budget deficit is growing rapidly, trade deficit is widening, small companies are already being destroyed by the Trade War, Trumps' aggregate GDP is thus far 2.9%. Those are the actual results, and no amount of partisan propaganda and narrative spinning in going to change that. Depending on how badly the Trade War blows up in our face, we may end up with significant blowback. We'll see how that turns out though.

 

[Conservative]

Yes, he has continued along the same slope Obama ended with. So kudos on not messing it up too much. But budget deficit is growing rapidly, trade deficit is widening, small companies are already being destroyed by the Trade War, Trumps' aggregate GDP is thus far 2.9%. Those are the actual results, and no amount of partisan propaganda and narrative spinning in going to change that. Depending on how badly the Trade War blows up in our face, we may end up with significant blowback. We'll see how that turns out though.

Yep, interesting how slope matters more to you than context! As for GDP growth, This is the first fiscal year of Trump that will end on September 30 so we will see what the GDP growth was. The 1.2% growth in first qtr 2017 is what hurt his growth numbers

 

[Conservative]

Yes, he has continued along the same slope Obama ended with. So kudos on not messing it up too much. But budget deficit is growing rapidly, trade deficit is widening, small companies are already being destroyed by the Trade War, Trumps' aggregate GDP is thus far 2.9%. Those are the actual results, and no amount of partisan propaganda and narrative spinning in going to change that. Depending on how badly the Trade War blows up in our face, we may end up with significant blowback. We'll see how that turns out though.

By the way a 3.4% GDP growth in this qtr will give us annual growth over 3% something Obama never achieved and that is coming off what you called the worst recession in history. How can a good economic policy not exceed 3% annual growth coming off a -2.7% Growth in Here is what a great economic policy will do

Table 1.1.1. Percent Change From Preceding Period in Real Gross Domestic Product
[Percent]
Bureau of Economic Analysis
Last Revised on: July 27, 2018 - Next Release Date August 29, 2018

Line 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016
Line
1 Gross domestic product -0.1 -2.5 2.6 1.6 2.2 1.8 2.5 2.9 1.6


Table 1.1.1. Percent Change From Preceding Period in Real Gross Domestic Product
[Percent]
Bureau of Economic Analysis
Last Revised on: July 27, 2018 - Next Release Date August 29, 2018

Line 1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988
Line
1 Gross domestic product -0.3 2.5 -1.8 4.6 7.2 4.2 3.5 3.5 4.2

 

[jaeger19]

The Trump results stand as posted, you don't like it, take it up with BLS.gov, BEA.gov. and Treasury.org. It isn't my data it is the official data and no matter how many times I have to say it your interpretation doesn't change the numbers

And as you have been shown.. all the data show is that the economy has followed the same trend as at the end of Obama's presidency... if you don't like it.. well.. do what you do best and lie about it!.

is the numbers we pay debt service on

Yeah.. that is irrelevant for the discussion.

believe we would get more revenue without the tax cuts but that doesn't change the reality that we are GETTING INCREASED FIT REVENUE WITH THE TAX CUTS

Actually there is no valid data to suggest that. We have been over this before.. you make an assumption based on an invalid interpretation of the data.

I went back to pre recession numbers because that is what Obama was hired to return us to

By who exactly? Who hired him for that? Because I would say that it was pretty obvious that the previous economic boom was unsustainable.. which.. is why it crashed.

the Obama results also speak for themselves but you can explain those results away as well.

Yep they do.. we are on the same trend as Obama.. despite your assertions. Heck.. you just got a graph from Ikari.. that proved it. Dismiss the data as much as you want.. facts are facts.

 

[jaeger19]

The people of this country are not going to stop buying goods and services so yes this is nothing but fear mongering. That is the facts straight up and simple. Save it for the clueless.

Hmmm... we are not talking about people in this country. You realize that we TRADE with other countries and that WE SEND PRODUCTS.. to other countries right? That's the whole point about this trade war.

(sheesh.. talk about clueless). Well.. we send products to China... Well.. Trump hit China with tariffs.. so China retaliated.. and so now.. US products that are sent to China.. now cost more in China... Which means that fewer Chinese customers are buying US products.

now.. you said it.. the US isn't going to stop buying goods and services... SO.. the thirst for CHINESE goods in the US will remain strong.. despite the tariffs that raise the prices...

Meanwhile however, Chinese demand for US goods will fall.. as the Chinese consumers don't buy us goods and turn to alternatives or alternate supply chains for the goods the US normally supplies.

So.. when the trade war ends. China will have a bigger trade deficit. Because the US will still thirst for cheap Chinese goods... meanwhile.. US exports to china will have lost market share.

That's fact.. not fear mongering.

 

[Conservative]

jaeger19;1069031043]And as you have been shown.. all the data show is that the economy has followed the same trend as at the end of Obama's presidency... if you don't like it.. well.. do what you do best and lie about it!.

Yep, seems that trends matter more to you than context. Welcome to the liberal alternative universe. Part time jobs and under employment matters except to the bottom line which you love posting

Yeah.. that is irrelevant for the discussion.

When talking about the deficit which seems to be a major issue for you it is very relevant

Actually there is no valid data to suggest that. We have been over this before.. you make an assumption based on an invalid interpretation of the data.

You don't interpret data you interpret the reason for the data and yes there is data showing FIT revenue growth and has been posted over and over again, done wasting my time doing it again

By who exactly? Who hired him for that? Because I would say that it was pretty obvious that the previous economic boom was unsustainable.. which.. is why it crashed.

Didn't pay much attention to the campaign, did you. Obama had all the answers but the problem is he never delivered on his promises as the results show including recovery.org

Yep they do.. we are on the same trend as Obama.. despite your assertions. Heck.. you just got a graph from Ikari.. that proved it. Dismiss the data as much as you want.. facts are facts.

yep as stated trends matter more than context, 4 million more people employed today than when Trump took over, 1 million more part time employees for economic reasons now working full time, and with 3.4% GDP growth this qtr that ends September 30 Trump will have 3% GDP growth for his first full fiscal year in office, something Obama never accomplished in 8 years. I do thank Obama for giving us Trump

 

[Conservative]

Hmmm... we are not talking about people in this country. You realize that we TRADE with other countries and that WE SEND PRODUCTS.. to other countries right? That's the whole point about this trade war.

(sheesh.. talk about clueless). Well.. we send products to China... Well.. Trump hit China with tariffs.. so China retaliated.. and so now.. US products that are sent to China.. now cost more in China... Which means that fewer Chinese customers are buying US products.

now.. you said it.. the US isn't going to stop buying goods and services... SO.. the thirst for CHINESE goods in the US will remain strong.. despite the tariffs that raise the prices...

Meanwhile however, Chinese demand for US goods will fall.. as the Chinese consumers don't buy us goods and turn to alternatives or alternate supply chains for the goods the US normally supplies.

So.. when the trade war ends. China will have a bigger trade deficit. Because the US will still thirst for cheap Chinese goods... meanwhile.. US exports to china will have lost market share.

That's fact.. not fear mongering.

I know that foreign countries including China appreciate your support but the reality is we will win this so called Trade War and here is why

https://teanewyork.wordpress.com/2018/09/05/trump-is-winning-everywhere-joel-ross/

 

[Conservative]

Hmmm... we are not talking about people in this country. You realize that we TRADE with other countries and that WE SEND PRODUCTS.. to other countries right? That's the whole point about this trade war.

(sheesh.. talk about clueless). Well.. we send products to China... Well.. Trump hit China with tariffs.. so China retaliated.. and so now.. US products that are sent to China.. now cost more in China... Which means that fewer Chinese customers are buying US products.

now.. you said it.. the US isn't going to stop buying goods and services... SO.. the thirst for CHINESE goods in the US will remain strong.. despite the tariffs that raise the prices...

Meanwhile however, Chinese demand for US goods will fall.. as the Chinese consumers don't buy us goods and turn to alternatives or alternate supply chains for the goods the US normally supplies.

So.. when the trade war ends. China will have a bigger trade deficit. Because the US will still thirst for cheap Chinese goods... meanwhile.. US exports to china will have lost market share.

That's fact.. not fear mongering.

Looks like that liberal projected trade war is really hurting us

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-gdp-growth-q3-third-quarter-strong-2018-8

 

[Conservative]

Yes, he has continued along the same slope Obama ended with. So kudos on not messing it up too much. But budget deficit is growing rapidly, trade deficit is widening, small companies are already being destroyed by the Trade War, Trumps' aggregate GDP is thus far 2.9%. Those are the actual results, and no amount of partisan propaganda and narrative spinning in going to change that. Depending on how badly the Trade War blows up in our face, we may end up with significant blowback. We'll see how that turns out though.

The best way to shut up a liberal is to confuse them with facts, like the following which obviously since you love projections probably hate this one.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-gdp-growth-q3-third-quarter-strong-2018-8

 

[jaeger19]

Yep, seems that trends matter more to you than context. Welcome to the liberal alternative universe. Part time jobs and under employment matters except to the bottom line which you love posting

When you are claiming that a president has done something to improve the economy.. then YES. the trend/data would matter more.

however.. when you put the context into it.. it hurts your argument even more.. since not only is the trend the same as what was under Obama.. but there is no where the problems in the economy that Obama faced.

When talking about the deficit which seems to be a major issue for you it is very relevant

Sure.. but that wasn't the issue at hand. Whether raw treasury data.. can be used to assume that ANY increase in FIT MEANS THAT TAX CUTS WORK.. is what is being discussed.. and you cannot make that assumption..

You don't interpret data y

Yep.. you interpret data.

yes there is data showing FIT revenue growth

Yep.. and as has been shown.. that FIT growth can be from a whole host of reasons other than the TAX CUT.. in fact. when you consider that the trend lines in the economy are pretty much on line with OBama's economic performance.. there is little to suggest the tax cut did much.

Didn't pay much attention to the campaign, did you. Obama had all the answers but the problem is he never delivered on his promises as the results show including recovery.org

I guess not... please tell me who hired him to get the economy back to the economic boom just before the economy burst.

yep as stated trends matter more than context,

Yep.. that's facts.

million more people employed today than when Trump took over,

Following the same trend

1 million more part time employees for economic reasons now working full time

Following the economic trend

and with 3.4% GDP growth this qtr that ends September 30 Trump will have 3% GDP growth for his first full year in office, something Obama never accomplished in 8 years

Pretty much following the trend.

Whats your point here? Oh.. I get it.. I GET IT... despite all the evidence.. you will believe that Trump did all this.. Okay... well enjoy your time in fantasy land.

 

[jaeger19]

Looks like that liberal projected trade war is really hurting us

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-gdp-growth-q3-third-quarter-strong-2018-8

Actually yes it is.

You really don't understand statistics do you?

But as trade-war talk has shifted to action, businesses are sounding the alarm on the adverse impact of tariffs. By restricting the supply that imports fill, US businesses are facing higher prices on goods containing steel and aluminum.

On Monday, the Dallas Federal Reserve's manufacturing survey highlighted some of these businesses. Factory activity and production in the region slowed in June compared with May, though the company-outlook index rose to its highest since 2006.

"I can't believe the effect the tariff response has had on the metals trade," a fabricated-metal producer said in a response edited before publication

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-trade-war-hurting-business-texas-manufacturers-say-2018-6/

 

[jaeger19]

The best way to shut up a liberal is to confuse them with facts,]

Apparently not.. you keep typing..