How About We Give The Administrations Puerto Rican Relief Efforts a Chance?

[NeverTrump]

Finally!! I don’t agree with much of what you post, but I think you got this one right. Ungrateful little brown people got “what they deserved!” Trump probably has a job for you. Secretary of Empathy!

Oh. I thought that was Steven Miller.

 

[eohrnberger]

I'm appalled at the off the wall reaction regarding relief efforts for Puerto Rico.

First it was a knee-jerk reaction to his "Ocean" tweet:

Trump slams Puerto Rico: ?They want everything to be done for them? | TheHill

Mass commentary on how juvenile his comment was, calling the water surrounding Puerto Rico "ocean water" when "everybody knows it is in the Caribbean Sea." Yuck yuck..."another idiot comment!" :roll:

1. As I pointed out in a thread, the term "Ocean" also applies to the entire contiguous body of salt water on this planet:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Ocean

2. Look at any map of the area. Puerto Rico's northern shores are on the Atlantic Ocean and the southern coast borders the Caribbean Sea.

So on THIS point, Trump was apparently correct..

Next is the over-the-top response to this tweet:

Trump slams Puerto Rico: ?They want everything to be done for them? | TheHill

1. The President was clearly referring to the mayor of San Juan, and other "leaders;" NOT the general population of Puerto Rico. Only people pre-disposed to see things in the worst possible light could think he was "slamming Puerto Rico."

2. I have to shake my head in amazement at all those arm-chair generals and arm-chair disaster relief managers who they think they know better as to how relief efforts can and should be handled.

People keep saying "we are the greatest most powerful blah! blah! blah!" without the slightest understanding about supply and logistics, and how they might affect disaster relief.

In the first place, it DOES matter that Puerto Rico is an island, as it is located 1032 miles (855 nautical miles) from Miami Florida. https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/distances.html?n=226

Unlike responding to disasters in Texas and Florida, Puerto Rico is only accessible by air or sea. That sets the first logistical limit.

In the second place, we don't have unlimited access to planes, ships, and supplies. That sets the second logistical limit

The government does not have immediate access to all the naval and air transport assets in it's arsenal, as the bulk of them are assigned strategic missions supporting our troops and commitments overseas. Calling them back takes time, and must be limited to those not necessary to maintaining our overseas obligations.

That leaves merchant marine and private airline assets. Yet these are for-profit assets already commuted to commercial duties. Business is about the bottom line, and usually prefers "token" charity that won't upset their income stream. To divert their assets for disaster relief would degrade other transportation commitments, and also cost the government money.

That money has to be allocated by Congress. Anyone notice how Congress was less than cooperative with Mr. Trump's efforts to allocate funds for Texas and Florida relief?

So, let's say we can gather enough planes and ships to start ferrying needs resources to the island, what do we face there? The island's infrastructure is damaged. That sets the third logistical limit.

We need to get Army and Navy engineers on site to rebuild. Now according to all reports there are already at least 7,000 military personnel there along with another 3,000 FEMA personnel. Those numbers are growing, and they are working hand over fist to fix the infrastructure as quickly as they can.

Those are only a few of the problems this kind of effort is facing, yet all those arm-chair advisors know what's best and what the government should be doing. :roll:

how about stop going into a frenzy, always assuming the worst...and try to exercise a little restraint? Reacting to MSM propaganda based on assumption bias isn't helping IMO. :coffeepap:

Agreed. As I posted before.

The aftermath of large scale natural disasters are chaotic by their very nature. There are bound to be some mix-ups and missteps in the relief efforts. That's to be expected, but none the less doesn't lessen the intent to lend relief and support that's needed. Kinda need to look at the larger picture, I think.

Plus, this is now the 3rd natural disaster in the span a few months, and I have to believe that all disaster related resources are being badly strained.

 

[eohrnberger]

Is there any bad thing that happens anywhere on the planet where the real victim isn't Donald Trump?

Is there anything on the planet that happens that doesn't immediate raise an anti-Trump bull**** tirade from the left end of the political spectrum?

Case in point, leaders from Puerto Rican leaders don't appears to be condemning Trump and his administration's efforts to provide relief to the population in Puerto Rico.

Doesn't seem to be the case. I stand by my quoted post above.

 

[Captain Adverse]

i mean this in the nicest way possible
tRump should hire you to polish his turds in public
your efforts are certainly much better than those we have seen from his communications staff

Think I should submit an application?

 

[Fiddytree]

They deserved it, they are a failed people, too much like HAITI..... too much victims, not enough survivors.

So, shouldn’t it stand to reason that Trump’s so-called “forgotten men” deserve their lot in life?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Greenbeard]

Is there anything on the planet that happens that doesn't immediate raise an anti-Trump bull**** tirade from the left end of the political spectrum?

Doesn't seem to be the case.

The answer to my question would seem to be a firm no. Apologies if this incident with Puerto Rico triggered you.

 

[MaggieD]

1. You falsely deride a strawman I never made while making one yourself. I suppose you want a different set of debating rules than you want for your opponents.
2. Obama is not the president any more. Try to keep up.
3. Most importantly, you did not address the actual points of Trump's bungled response to Puerto Rico that I did make. Unless you actually do address them in your very next post, I will assume that you are conceding them.

I hope you know that using “strawman” lingo doesn’t mean we are debating. That’s not what we’ve been doing lately at all.

 

[Hawkeye10]

So, shouldn’t it stand to reason that Trump’s so-called “forgotten men” deserve their lot in life?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

No...Apples and Oranges.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Is there any bad thing that happens anywhere on the planet where the real victim isn't Donald Trump?

I agree about Trump's own insecurities, but FEMA has never handled a off shore island before. Like Katrina........lessons will be learned.

 

[Rexedgar]

I hope you know that using “strawman” lingo doesn’t mean we are debating. That’s not what we’ve been doing lately at all.

Debate was the furthest thing from the OP’s mind. More like kicking the hornest’s nest.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Did I miss something?

Hurricane Maria hit Puerto Rico on September 20. And this occurred only two weeks after Puerto Rico was still trying to recover from the damaging effects of Hurricane Irma.

Today is September 30. The island is devastated with apocalyptic damage to the power grid, communications, and logistics (airports/roads/bridges/rails etc.).

And you don't seem to have any problem at all with Trump flying off to NJ to smack some woods and irons at his luxury golf course and having an attitude with the mayor of San Juan.

wtf?

 

[Carleen]

Is there any bad thing that happens anywhere on the planet where the real victim isn't Donald Trump?

Not so far.

 

[Fiddytree]

No...Apples and Oranges.

That's convenient.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

 

[Fletch]

Hurricane Maria hit Puerto Rico on September 20. And this occurred only two weeks after Puerto Rico was still trying to recover from the damaging effects of Hurricane Irma.

Today is September 30. The island is devastated with apocalyptic damage to the power grid, communications, and logistics (airports/roads/bridges/rails etc.).

And you don't seem to have any problem at all with Trump flying off to NJ to smack some woods and irons at his luxury golf course and having an attitude with the mayor of San Juan.

wtf?

We have 10,000 troops there and FEMA is working with local officials. What more would you like Trump to do?

 

[ttwtt78640]

They deserved it, they are a failed people, too much like HAITI..... too much victims, not enough survivors.

They are not a failed people they are an abused people that have been hurt by outside kindness and concern.

Haiti was basically forced to fail, and is kept that way, by being given too much aid. Dumping of surplus production (of rich nations) as aid into "poor" nations allows rich nations to keep their prices "stable" (the poitically correct word for artificially up) but ruins the ability of any local producers (of similar products) in those "helped" nations to ever emerge as profitable.

https://fee.org/articles/how-us-crop-dumping-keeps-haiti-poor-and-dependent/

 

[GhostlyJoe]

And then the people suffering from Trump derangement syndrome would accuse him of ignoring the plight of Puerto Ricans. How about the people who are using a national tragedy to score political points on the backs of victims shut the **** up for a change?

So we agree that Trump should shut up already. Cool.

 

[Phys251]

I hope you know that using “strawman” lingo doesn’t mean we are debating. That’s not what we’ve been doing lately at all.

Actually you may be right. It may have been more accurate to accuse Captain of using an Obama-did-it-too red herring, not a strawman. Although it wouldn't be much of a stretch.

P.S. No, Obama didn't do it too, not to anywhere near the extent that Trump did.

 

[iguanaman]

As I said in a different thread Trump had the smarts to transfer command to the military, which he did Thursday, because FEMA is not equipped to deal with complete devastation off shore with barely a functioning government in place.

That alone deserves applause.

Better late than never is more like it. Obama had 10,000 troops on the ground in Haiti just 2 days after the quake. We STILL don't have that many in PR.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Better late than never is more like it. Obama had 10,000 troops on the ground in Haiti just 2 days after the quake. We STILL don't have that many in PR.

A fast response is good and repairng basic infrastructure is good but beware too much aid for too long or you will ruin what you meant to help restore. It seems that Haiti was virtually killed with kindness and our alleged best of intentions.

https://fee.org/articles/how-us-crop-dumping-keeps-haiti-poor-and-dependent/

 

[Hawkeye10]

Better late than never is more like it. Obama had 10,000 troops on the ground in Haiti just 2 days after the quake. We STILL don't have that many in PR.

The government claims we did as of I think two days ago.

Are you in the fake news business?

 

[apdst]

I'm appalled at the off the wall reaction regarding relief efforts for Puerto Rico.

First it was a knee-jerk reaction to his "Ocean" tweet:

Trump slams Puerto Rico: ?They want everything to be done for them? | TheHill

Mass commentary on how juvenile his comment was, calling the water surrounding Puerto Rico "ocean water" when "everybody knows it is in the Caribbean Sea." Yuck yuck..."another idiot comment!" :roll:

1. As I pointed out in a thread, the term "Ocean" also applies to the entire contiguous body of salt water on this planet:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Ocean

2. Look at any map of the area. Puerto Rico's northern shores are on the Atlantic Ocean and the southern coast borders the Caribbean Sea.

So on THIS point, Trump was apparently correct..

Next is the over-the-top response to this tweet:

Trump slams Puerto Rico: ?They want everything to be done for them? | TheHill

1. The President was clearly referring to the mayor of San Juan, and other "leaders;" NOT the general population of Puerto Rico. Only people pre-disposed to see things in the worst possible light could think he was "slamming Puerto Rico."

2. I have to shake my head in amazement at all those arm-chair generals and arm-chair disaster relief managers who they think they know better as to how relief efforts can and should be handled.

People keep saying "we are the greatest most powerful blah! blah! blah!" without the slightest understanding about supply and logistics, and how they might affect disaster relief.

In the first place, it DOES matter that Puerto Rico is an island, as it is located 1032 miles (855 nautical miles) from Miami Florida. https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/distances.html?n=226

Unlike responding to disasters in Texas and Florida, Puerto Rico is only accessible by air or sea. That sets the first logistical limit.

In the second place, we don't have unlimited access to planes, ships, and supplies. That sets the second logistical limit

The government does not have immediate access to all the naval and air transport assets in it's arsenal, as the bulk of them are assigned strategic missions supporting our troops and commitments overseas. Calling them back takes time, and must be limited to those not necessary to maintaining our overseas obligations.

That leaves merchant marine and private airline assets. Yet these are for-profit assets already commuted to commercial duties. Business is about the bottom line, and usually prefers "token" charity that won't upset their income stream. To divert their assets for disaster relief would degrade other transportation commitments, and also cost the government money.

That money has to be allocated by Congress. Anyone notice how Congress was less than cooperative with Mr. Trump's efforts to allocate funds for Texas and Florida relief?

So, let's say we can gather enough planes and ships to start ferrying needs resources to the island, what do we face there? The island's infrastructure is damaged. That sets the third logistical limit.

We need to get Army and Navy engineers on site to rebuild. Now according to all reports there are already at least 7,000 military personnel there along with another 3,000 FEMA personnel. Those numbers are growing, and they are working hand over fist to fix the infrastructure as quickly as they can.

Those are only a few of the problems this kind of effort is facing, yet all those arm-chair advisors know what's best and what the government should be doing. :roll:

how about stop going into a frenzy, always assuming the worst...and try to exercise a little restraint? Reacting to MSM propaganda based on assumption bias isn't helping IMO. :coffeepap:

They did give it a chance. When that 5 minutes was up, they went to town on the Trump Administration. :lamo

 

[apdst]

How about Trump just shuts the f*** up for a change?

Then you all will cry because didn't make a public statement.

 

[GhostlyJoe]

Then you all will cry because didn't make a public statement.

I vote we put that theory to the test.

 

[apdst]

I vote we put that theory to the test.

Ok.....

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

People keep saying "we are the greatest most powerful blah! blah! blah!" without the slightest understanding about supply and logistics, and how they might affect disaster relief.

In the first place, it DOES matter that Puerto Rico is an island, as it is located 1032 miles (855 nautical miles) from Miami Florida. https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/distances.html?n=226

Are you sure that Puerto Rico is an island?

It must be news to the Trump administration. If a Cat 5 hurricane is headed for a small island don't you think that planning should have started BEFORE the storm hit? Everything about the situation is predictable. Did they not consider that if power was out and roads blocked that distributing supplies might be difficult? Could they not have gotten fuel to hospital generators sooner?

"They want everything done for them." How are they supposed to distribute the supplies? Why would a president say something like that? I'll tell you why. He DOESN'T LISTEN TO HIS ADVISERS.

Real presidents are CAREFUL about what they say. Not this fool. Real presidents, real leaders don't get into personal squabbles during a crisis. Period. End of story.

Real presidents don't start some squabble with the NFL during a crisis.

Your blind Trump support has only earned you ZERO credibility. There is nothing he can do that would earn your criticism. We get it.