Henry David's EVIDENCE of something other Flight 77 hitting the t[W:62,723,809:914***

[BmanMcfly]

Re: Henry David's EVIDENCE of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon [W:

Seriously? I can only assume you are being intentionaly obtuse.
You were asking about the video that missed not the one proving it was not only possible but not even hard to do.

You haven't proved your claim... You went half way and showed the guy, who practiced beforehand, hint hint, was able to pull off the maneuvers.

You have yet to show how those that missed did so intentionally, your argument amounts to "if this idiot could do it, then anyone can, and anyone who can't is because they were not trying."

Let me know when you want to retract your claims, then we could go back to the middle ground where we can both safely agree, that there are some that have been able to pull it off, and many that could not.

 

[Quag]

Re: Henry David's EVIDENCE of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon [W:

You haven't proved your claim... You went half way and showed the guy, who practiced beforehand, hint hint, was able to pull off the maneuvers.

You have yet to show how those that missed did so intentionally, your argument amounts to "if this idiot could do it, then anyone can, and anyone who can't is because they were not trying."

Let me know when you want to retract your claims, then we could go back to the middle ground where we can both safely agree, that there are some that have been able to pull it off, and many that could not.

Let me know when you want to actually look at 911 with open eyes.
Hitting the pentagon with a jet isnt that hard no matter how much you want to pretend it to be.
If you want to watch videos of people letting go of the controls and missign the Pentagon and pretend that it somehow proves its hard while ignoring videos of an inexperienced pilot having no trouble doing so that is your right but at this point only wilflul ignorance can explain your denial of reality.

 

[BmanMcfly]

Re: Henry David's EVIDENCE of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon [W:

Let me know when you want to actually look at 911 with open eyes.
Hitting the pentagon with a jet isnt that hard no matter how much you want to pretend it to be.
If you want to watch videos of people letting go of the controls and missign the Pentagon and pretend that it somehow proves its hard while ignoring videos of an inexperienced pilot having no trouble doing so that is your right but at this point only wilflul ignorance can explain your denial of reality.

Incredulity is not evidence.

Which, btw, in a strict sense, while the guy DID hit the target, he did NOT hit the target at the angle that was what was videotaped by the surveillance cameras. So, he did not replicate the attacks.

Proof of your claims that missing the pentagon was intentional for those that were not successful?

 

[Fledermaus]

Re: Henry David's EVIDENCE of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon [W:

incredulity is not evidence.

Which, btw, in a strict sense, while the guy did hit the target, he did not hit the target at the angle that was what was videotaped by the surveillance cameras. So, he did not replicate the attacks.

Proof of your claims that missing the pentagon was intentional for those that were not successful?

moving goalposts

 

[BmanMcfly]

Re: Henry David's EVIDENCE of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon [W:

moving goalposts

No, he made some claims and has yet to prove them... I'm just adding observations as we go to what he has shown, even though that's still cutting some slack.

 

[Quag]

Re: Henry David's EVIDENCE of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon [W:

Incredulity is not evidence.

AMAZING YOU HAVE FINALLY FIGURED THAT OUT!!!!!!!!

Which, btw, in a strict sense, while the guy DID hit the target, he did NOT hit the target at the angle that was what was videotaped by the surveillance cameras. So, he did not replicate the attacks.

Yes that is the strawman Baslamo like to use in trying to discredit the video that proves his video was total BS.
If you take a car aroudn a racetrack at speed you will NOT be able to drive exactly over the tire tracks of the person who went before, Heck even the best drivers in teh world cant do that (they can get close though). On 911 the terrorists were not following a specific trajectory they were, liek the dutch simulation) just trying to hit the Pentagon and they succeded. Claiming it wasnt exactly the same as the terrorists is total nonsense. Remember the Pentagon is the largest buidling in the world, and despite what the liars at P4911 claim it doesnt require much skill to contol an aircraft in flight.

Proof of your claims that missing the pentagon was intentional for those that were not successful?

I have told you repeatedly watch the P4911 simualtion (the only one I know of, You claim more please feel free to post them). You can see the guy let go of the controls, really not much more to say after that. If the plane had managed to hit the Pentagon with no one at the controls that would have been impressive.

 

[Quag]

Re: Henry David's EVIDENCE of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon [W:

No, he made some claims and has yet to prove them... I'm just adding observations as we go to what he has shown, even though that's still cutting some slack.

I did prove them you just refuse to watch the video, not much more I can do about that.
Post your video(s) of unsucsesfull simulations. I woudl really love to see if there is mroe than one if the others have as glaring failures in them as Balsamo's.

 

[Quag]

Re: Henry David's EVIDENCE of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon [W:

moving goalposts

Trtuhers will never admit to any of their theories being wrong even the mutually exclusive ones, its part of theit mantra, thus they have no choice but to use one of several tactics to avoid admitting anything.

 

[BmanMcfly]

Re: Henry David's EVIDENCE of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon [W:

I did prove them you just refuse to watch the video, not much more I can do about that.
Post your video(s) of unsucsesfull simulations. I woudl really love to see if there is mroe than one if the others have as glaring failures in them as Balsamo's.

No, don't try to flip the burden of your claims... I'll just take the attempt as a retraction.

So, we are agreed then, that there's people with little to no experience in the simulator that have both been able to and not able to pull it off...

Thanks.

 

[Fledermaus]

Re: Henry David's EVIDENCE of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon [W:

No, he made some claims and has yet to prove them... I'm just adding observations as we go to what he has shown, even though that's still cutting some slack.

You moved the goalposts out of the stadium and out of the county.....

 

[Fledermaus]

Re: Henry David's EVIDENCE of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon [W:

No, don't try to flip the burden of your claims... I'll just take the attempt as a retraction.

So, we are agreed then, that there's people with little to no experience in the simulator that have both been able to and not able to pull it off...

Thanks.

So, people with no experience carried it off....

Just think what a trained pilot could do.

Correction.... Did do.

 

[BmanMcfly]

Re: Henry David's EVIDENCE of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon [W:

You moved the goalposts out of the stadium and out of the county.....

How, explain how that was shifted goal posts, what was the goal posts before and after?

Let's see how little you grasp the flow of conversation...

 

[Fledermaus]

Re: Henry David's EVIDENCE of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon [W:

How, explain how that was shifted goal posts, what was the goal posts before and after?

Let's see how little you grasp the flow of conversation...

The goalpost was inexperienced people hitting the Pentagon.

The "did not hit the target at the angle that was what was videotaped by the surveillance cameras" is the blatantly moved goalpost.

ETA - I bolded the text so you would know EXACTLY what was the moved goalpost.

 

[Quag]

Re: Henry David's EVIDENCE of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon [W:

No, don't try to flip the burden of your claims... I'll just take the attempt as a retraction.

So, we are agreed then, that there's people with little to no experience in the simulator that have both been able to and not able to pull it off...

Thanks.

person A says something is impossible and then goes on to fail at doing it, that is not proof it is impossible.
person B with little experience then manages to do the same thing with little difficulty. That is proof that it is possible
Either Person A was wrong, or they were purposely misleading.

In the P4911 video you can see th pilot let go of the controls and allow the plane to miss the Pentagon. If you refuse to watch the video that is not my problem. I backed up my claim and you have refused to even look at the evidence.
Add that to the other lies P4911 has been caught in and the only possible conclusion is that they were trying to miss on purpose.
You can claim I havent proved my point but you can only do so by ignoring the evidence and logic.

 

[BmanMcfly]

Re: Henry David's EVIDENCE of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon [W:

The goalpost was inexperienced people hitting the Pentagon.

The "did not hit the target at the angle that was what was videotaped by the surveillance cameras" is the blatantly moved goalpost.

ETA - I bolded the text so you would know EXACTLY what was the moved goalpost.

Lmao... this is wrong.

That's not shifting goalposts, it's adding scrutiny to what was passed on as proof.. of half the claim.

 

[BmanMcfly]

Re: Henry David's EVIDENCE of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon [W:

person A says something is impossible and then goes on to fail at doing it, that is not proof it is impossible.
person B with little experience then manages to do the same thing with little difficulty. That is proof that it is possible
Either Person A was wrong, or they were purposely misleading.

In the P4911 video you can see th pilot let go of the controls and allow the plane to miss the Pentagon. If you refuse to watch the video that is not my problem. I backed up my claim and you have refused to even look at the evidence.
Add that to the other lies P4911 has been caught in and the only possible conclusion is that they were trying to miss on purpose.
You can claim I havent proved my point but you can only do so by ignoring the evidence and logic.

If fled was honest he would have repeated his quote "Incredulity is not evidence".

Edit: oh and this argument is a strawman fallacy... my point was that some have failed some were successful. You claimed that in order to fail was intentional... still waiting for proof of that claim.

 

[Fledermaus]

Re: Henry David's EVIDENCE of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon [W:

If fled was honest he would have repeated his quote "Incredulity is not evidence".

Edit: oh and this argument is a strawman fallacy... my point was that some have failed some were successful. You claimed that in order to fail was intentional... still waiting for proof of that claim.

Did, or did not the person in the P4911 video release the controls?

Did?

Did not?

And to your (new) point. Agreed. Some NON-PILOTS have succeeded. Ergo the maneuver is plausible even for a NON-PILOT.

Just think what a trained pilot could do.

Oh, and did someone force the.person in the P4911 to release his grip or did he voluntarily release his grip?

 

[Fledermaus]

Re: Henry David's EVIDENCE of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon [W:

Lmao... this is wrong.

That's not shifting goalposts, it's adding scrutiny to what was passed on as proof.. of half the claim.

Goalposts moved.

And lacks the ability to see it.

 

[Quag]

Re: Henry David's EVIDENCE of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon [W:

If fled was honest he would have repeated his quote "Incredulity is not evidence".

Agreed, incredulity is not evidence but that is what most truthers base their initial claims on.
Free fall speed, collapsing into its own footprint, non expert could not fly planes, etc etc...

Edit: oh and this argument is a strawman fallacy... my point was that some have failed some were successful. You claimed that in order to fail was intentional... still waiting for proof of that claim.

Already done, try reading.

person A says something is impossible and then goes on to fail at doing it, that is not proof it is impossible.
person B with little experience then manages to do the same thing with little difficulty. That is proof that it is possible
Either Person A was wrong, or they were purposely misleading.

In the P4911 video you can see th pilot let go of the controls and allow the plane to miss the Pentagon. If you refuse to watch the video that is not my problem. I backed up my claim and you have refused to even look at the evidence.
Add that to the other lies P4911 has been caught in and the only possible conclusion is that they were trying to miss on purpose.
You can claim I havent proved my point but you can only do so by ignoring the evidence and logic.

 

[Fledermaus]

Re: Henry David's EVIDENCE of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon [W:

So... Back to the OP.

EVIDENCE of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon.

 

[Fledermaus]

Re: Henry David's EVIDENCE of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon [W:

Bump...

 

[Mark F]

Re: Henry David's EVIDENCE of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon [W:

Here is a flight simulator recreation of Flight 77 from take off to termination. The maneuver (a simple turn to the right descending from 8,000 feet and leveling off at about 2,000 feet in 3 minutes and a bit) which some members claim is "impossible" starts at about 1:08:30.



I suspect when someone says the maneuver is "impossible", that only a fighter jet or aerobatic plane could perform it, s/he is using the long-ago-discredited BS made-up flight path that conspiracy theorists were using prior to the release of the NTSB data in 2006. The same fantasy flight path P4911T clung to forever and ever. That would be consistent with many other outdated assumptions certain members consistently spew and which are never questioned or re-examined based on newer, more accurate and detailed evidence.

Here you can see the fantasy flight path the conspiracy morons came up with in Purple and Red and which I suspect some members think is reality, as well as the actual far-from-impossible reality flight path in Yellow:

Loop_Official_Koeppel_Comp.jpg Photo by chainsawmoth | Photobucket

Speaking of impossible maneuvers, I wonder what Henry thinks of Crazy Capn' Bobby's claimed 11.2g "flyover" of the Pentagon maneuver that not a single witness saw and never showed up on radar nor was seen by the Reagan Airport tower. Crazy Capn' Bobby is a pilot too, just like Henry.

So the final turn and descent towards the target was far from impossible, has in fact been duplicated by amateur pilots in a simulator without difficulty and as we know from the tracks of multiple radars, the FDR, over 130 witnesses whose statements are on record, the path of damaged trees and light poles, the displaced diesel generator, the impact marks on the Pentagon facade, footage from two different camera's the damage pattern inside the building, the recovered debris, the recovered human remains and the admissions of the airline and its insurers - it was Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon and nothing else.

Everything else is :censored

No reason to continue to indulge obvious nonsense from people with a pathological inability to grasp reality.

 

[Quag]

Re: Henry David's EVIDENCE of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon [W:

Here is a flight simulator recreation of Flight 77 from take off to termination. The maneuver (a simple turn to the right descending from 8,000 feet and leveling off at about 2,000 feet in 3 minutes and a bit) which some members claim is "impossible" starts at about 1:08:30.



I suspect when someone says the maneuver is "impossible", that only a fighter jet or aerobatic plane could perform it, s/he is using the long-ago-discredited BS made-up flight path that conspiracy theorists were using prior to the release of the NTSB data in 2006. The same fantasy flight path P4911T clung to forever and ever. That would be consistent with many other outdated assumptions certain members consistently spew and which are never questioned or re-examined based on newer, more accurate and detailed evidence.

Here you can see the fantasy flight path the conspiracy morons came up with in Purple and Red and which I suspect some members think is reality, as well as the actual far-from-impossible reality flight path in Yellow:

Loop_Official_Koeppel_Comp.jpg Photo by chainsawmoth | Photobucket

Speaking of impossible maneuvers, I wonder what Henry thinks of Crazy Capn' Bobby's claimed 11.2g "flyover" of the Pentagon maneuver that not a single witness saw and never showed up on radar nor was seen by the Reagan Airport tower. Crazy Capn' Bobby is a pilot too, just like Henry.
So the final turn and descent towards the target was far from impossible, has in fact been duplicated by amateur pilots in a simulator without difficulty and as we know from the tracks of multiple radars, the FDR, over 130 witnesses whose statements are on record, the path of damaged trees and light poles, the displaced diesel generator, the impact marks on the Pentagon facade, footage from two different camera's the damage pattern inside the building, the recovered debris, the recovered human remains and the admissions of the airline and its insurers - it was Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon and nothing else.

Everything else is :censored

No reason to continue to indulge obvious nonsense from people with a pathological inability to grasp reality.

No Capt Bob is actually a pilot unlike HD. He is however making some cash from peddling his silly cd's. HD lies for the sake of lying

 

[Mark F]

Re: Henry David's EVIDENCE of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon [W:

No Capt Bob is actually a pilot unlike HD.

Not since about 2007 he isn't.

 

[Quag]

Re: Henry David's EVIDENCE of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon [W:

Not since about 2007 he isn't.

Ok if you prefer was a pilot, unlike HD