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Gun control sure works NOT

Rich2018 said:
So they want to see the 2nd amendment repealed so that gun control is both constitutional, effective and enforceable.
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Gun owners want the 2nd amendment repealed? Don't know where you got that crazy idea.
 
CLAX1911 said:
We don't have a gun problem we have a violence problem. And there is a solution, it's just not easy.
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Yes, and to be more specific we've got a criminal violence problem.
 
Somerville said:
from Rupert Murdoch's Sky TV

Why are white men more likely to carry out mass shootings?
Between 1982 and 2017, 92 of 95 mass shootings in the US were carried out by men, and only three involved a woman.

The article refers back to Statista where you could find this graph with the headline: Number of mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and November 2018, by shooter's race and ethnicity

View attachment 67248451
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Funny thing is that white males with no college degree is the demographic group most likely to support Donald Trump.
 
VanceMack said:
I COMPLETELY disagree. If we implement the same law that made Japan safe, we would absolutely see a reduction in crime.

No...it wasnt the gun bans. It was the imposition of massive prison sentences for anyone using a firearm in the commission of a violent crime and then their version of our RICO statutes that attached guilt to anyone connected to the criminal enterprise which resulted in them going to prison for the same amount of time as the perpetrators that made the difference in Japan.

We need mandatory minimum prison sentences for ANYONE that willfully uses a weapon in the commission of a violent crime. 40 years plus the original sentence...minimum. Lock up enough perpetrators...watch the violent crime rate plummet.
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You make a good point although if we did what you suggest, that might make people more reluctant to use firearms in self defense in fear of being charged and slapped with a big prison sentence.
 
Somerville said:
from Rupert Murdoch's Sky TV

Why are white men more likely to carry out mass shootings?
Between 1982 and 2017, 92 of 95 mass shootings in the US were carried out by men, and only three involved a woman.

The article refers back to Statista where you could find this graph with the headline: Number of mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and November 2018, by shooter's race and ethnicity

View attachment 67248451
Click to expand...

"According to data compiled by Mother Jones magazine, which looked at mass shootings in the United States since 1982, white people -- almost exclusively white men -- committed some 64% of the shootings.
The examples are infamous. Roof and the Charleston church massacre. Lanza and the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. Holmes and the slaughter inside an Aurora, Colorado, movie theater.
Black people committed close to 16% of the mass shooting Mother Jones looked at, while Asians were responsible for around 9%. People identified as either Latino, Native American and unknown rounded out the study.

"If you look at the whole list, it turns out that whites and blacks are pretty proportionate to their population, very close," said Dave Cullen, author of the book "Columbine," which tells the story of the 1999 massacre at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado. Harris and Klebold, the shooters there, were white.
Historically, Latinos and Asians have been the exception. The Virginia Tech massacre was carried out by Seung-Hui Cho, who was born in South Korea. "Latinos are almost nowhere to be seen," Cullen told CNN's "New Day." "Asians continue to be heavily overrepresented -- more than 2½ times their size in the population."
Whites make up about 63% of the U.S. population, blacks 13%, and Asians 5%, according to the latest census numbers. Latinos account for some 17% of the total population."

Imagine that. White males commit 64% of the mass shootings and make up 63% of the male population. Looks like it's those Asians we need to keep our eyes on.

https://www.cnn.com/2015/06/27/us/mass-shootings/index.html
 
CaughtInThe said:
Correct. So if a gangbanger was trying to murder 5 but only killed 2 it's not a mass murder.
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And the people he kills would most likely be other gangbangers, so he's doing us a favor, although he would be doing us a bigger favor if he did kill 5 instead of 2.
 
DebateChallenge said:
And the people he kills would most likely be other gangbangers, so he's doing us a favor, although he would be doing us a bigger favor if he did kill 5 instead of 2.
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And when he kills someone else ?


Gangbangers tend not to walk into churches and schools and attempt to kill everyone in it.
 
CaughtInThe said:
It bothers me not that people own guns. It does bother me when people murder each other. Especially young kids.
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I've got a problem with that too. Just recently there was a case in Oregon of a man killing four people, including an infant, with an axe. Fortunately the police showed up and shot him before he could kill an 8 year old girl who otherwise would've been his next victim.
 
DebateChallenge said:
And the people he kills would most likely be other gangbangers, so he's doing us a favor, although he would be doing us a bigger favor if he did kill 5 instead of 2.
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Sadly it looks like the gangbangers need more gun training, as many of the people killed by them are innocent bystanders, especially children.
 
VanceMack said:
The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with passing mandatory minimum prison sentences. THAT is what made the difference in Japan. If you study Japans history, even after their gun ban was passed, gun violence, especially with their gangs was still a problem. Importation of illegal guns was still a problem. The problem of gun violence is not solved by bans. It is solved by prison sentences...very long prison sentences...for violent perpetrators and where gang activity is involved, the same statutes used to attack the Mafia should be employed.
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To the best of my knowledge Japan always had a gun ban, or at least they have for as long as guns have been around.
 
HumblePi said:
Not only does the U.S. have more guns than any other nation on the planet, but it also has far more gun deaths than any other developed nation — six times the homicide rate of neighboring Canada, more than seven times as many as Sweden, and 16 times as many as Germany.

So, yes.... gun control reduces gun deaths.
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More guns would result in more gun deaths, that makes sense, but the important thing to look at is whether more guns means more premature deaths overall.
 
DebateChallenge said:
To the best of my knowledge Japan always had a gun ban, or at least they have for as long as guns have been around.
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It started with the Tokugawa Shogunate in the late 1500s. All civil rights were ended by the ruling class, with the death penalty for violating the new restrictions. A couple centuries of that and a certain mindset gets cemented.

More info:

Japan: Gun Control and People Control
 
Somerville said:
I didn't and would never, claim that making it more difficult to obtain a firearm would STOP suicides, I simply wrote that it might REDUCE the number as many of the methods used to kill oneself take more time and often allow others to intervene.

Sorry, UK suicide rate is approximately 13.2 per 100,000. The US suicide rate is approximately 15.5 per 100,000. Japan's suicides are 18.5 per 100K

Russian rate is over 30 per 100K -- looks like Putin and the oligarchs are doing a great job running their country into the ground.
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The numbers vary from year to year but they stay fairly consistent. And you find those numbers significantly different? You find the fact that 13.2 per 100k in the UK manage to hang themselves in the UK somehow equates to the 15.2 number in the US (where firearms are used in a majority) but NOT to the 18.5 in Japan where firearms arent used at all?

Suicide has nothing to do with gun control has nothing to do with suicide.
 
HumblePi said:
Guns weren't a motivator for Adam Lanza who killed 26 people, 20 of them were five and six year old kids. But the gun was there for him to pick up right in his own home. Because of Sandy Hook, my state implemented stricter gun legislation, some of the strictest in the nation. there were 92 gun homicides per year in Connecticut on average prior to the new gun laws and last year there were 53. That’s the lowest homicide rate ever, according to state data, and Connecticut has one of the lowest gun death rates in the country.
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Gun deaths are just one sort of premature death. Adam Lanza could've just easily gotten a truck and drove it into the crowd of students when school got out.
 
Rich2018 said:
So, ban guns and seize all illegal guns.

The USA now has British levels of gun ownership.


What's the problem.

You're just parroting excuse # 3
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And you're parroting excuse # 4
 
Rich2018 said:
is that like saying the USA has laws outlawing rape but rapes still occur...and this makes people who promote legislation to punish rapists and sex offenders look stupid.
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When you rape you're hurting somebody, when you own guns you aren't.
 
Somerville said:
But it might reduce the number of suicides, almost 60% of suicides in America are by a self-inflicted gunshot.
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It won't reduce the number of suicides, it will just change the method.
 
Rich2018 said:
Sounds like excuse # 3 coming up:

You can't ban guns in the USA because there's just so many of them.
It's in our culture...it's impossible for Americans (the minority with guns that is) to live without them


Excuse # 3 is ridiculous




OK, and your point ?


That the Australian gun ban has reduced mass shootings ?







Correct me if I got you wrong, are you saying that there wasn't much of a gun problem in Australia and the UK before their respective gun control legislation ?

Well yes you may have a point that Aussie and British gun crime was nowhere near as bad as it is currently in the USA...but their respective governments decided to act anyway.

So the conclusion is that gun control is even MORE necessary in the USA than it was in Australia and the UK.



The difference is the 2nd amendment.

Repeal the 2a and we're in business to resolve America's gun problem.
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Wow. You really struggle with facts. You find an INCREASE from 19 in 25 years to 25 in 22 years an indicator that the Australia ban has REDUCED mass murders??? And you just ignore the fact that your argument that the gun ban REDUCED mass murders in the UKL has been completely destroyed?

The difference between us and ALL of those countries is that they have for centuries remained a largely homogeneous population where we have large cities with majority minority populations that have been devastated by several decades of democrat leadership. Its not the law abiding citizens and the 2nd Amendment that is responsible for the mass shootings...it is the devastation to the black American communities caused by rat policies.
 
DebateChallenge said:
And most of those are gang related homicides, your point?
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Well, that's totally false...

"During roughly the same time period (2007 to 2011), the FBI estimated, on average, more than 15,500 homicides across the United States (FBI ? Table 1). These estimates suggest that gang-related homicides typically accounted for around 13 percent of all homicides annually."
 
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