• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Greenland’s Melting Ice Nears a ‘Tipping Point,’

Media_Truth said:
Face it - you were caught with your hands in the cookie jar... Got any more lies to post?
Click to expand...
What cookie jar, what lies?
You are the one who claimed that,
"In the last 5 years, there has even been one month with anything below .6485."
was a sign of acceleration.
 
longview said:
What cookie jar, what lies?
You are the one who claimed that,
"In the last 5 years, there has even been one month with anything below .6485."
was a sign of acceleration.
Click to expand...

You posted data, and drew false conclusions from the data. Naughty, naughty!
 
Media_Truth said:
You posted data, and drew false conclusions from the data. Naughty, naughty!
Click to expand...
Do you even understand that acceleration means an increase in the rate of change?
saying "In the last 5 years, there has even been one month with anything below .6485." was a sign of acceleration,
makes it sound like you do not understand what acceleration is.
 
longview said:
Do you even understand that acceleration means an increase in the rate of change?
saying "In the last 5 years, there has even been one month with anything below .6485." was a sign of acceleration,
makes it sound like you do not understand what acceleration is.
Click to expand...

He has no clue about acceleration. Far beyond him.
 
Re: Greenland’s Melting Ice Nears a ‘Tipping Point,’

calamity said:
Greenland’s enormous ice sheet is melting at such an accelerated rate that it may have reached a “tipping point,” and could become a major factor in sea-level rise around the world within two decades, scientists said in a study published on Monday.

The Arctic is warming at twice the average rate of the rest of the planet, and the new research adds to the evidence that the ice loss in Greenland, which lies mainly above the Arctic Circle, is speeding up as the warming increases. The authors found that ice loss in 2012 was nearly four times the rate in 2003, and after a lull in 2013-14, it has resumed.

Greenland’s Melting Ice Nears a ‘Tipping Point,’ Scientists Say - The New York Times

More irrefutable evidence that we have a real problem.​
Click to expand...


There's this NASA supported web page:
Greenland Ice Sheet Today | Surface Melt Data presented by NSIDC
where you can find this cute little map

greenland_cumulative_melt_tmb.png


which says that Greenland doesn't melt very often at very many places. Sort of flies in the face of:

Greenland’s enormous ice sheet is melting at such an accelerated rate
that it may have reached a “tipping point,” blah .. blah .. blah .. blah ..​

When is the "Greenland is melting!" BS going to stop?​
 
BS exposed.

Sea level
A Sea Level Rise Conundrum – Greenland’s Cycles

By Jim Steele After France fell to the Nazis, Britain desperately prepared for an invasion. The United States shuttled hundreds of planes to England via the Snowball Route, a series of secret bases on Newfoundland, Greenland and Iceland. But in 1942 one squadron never completed the journey. A sudden July storm forced 8 planes to…

[FONT=&quot]. . . During the last 100 years, [/FONT]Greenland oscillated [FONT=&quot]between gaining and losing ice. Its greatest loss raised sea level by 0.07 inches in 2012, about half the total sea level rise of 0.12 inches a year. That accelerated loss was trumpeted as just what climate models predict. However, Greenland’s melt rates then declined and by 2017 it was gaining enough ice to slightly reduce sea level rise. . . . [/FONT]

 
Jack Hays said:
BS exposed.

Sea level
A Sea Level Rise Conundrum – Greenland’s Cycles

By Jim Steele After France fell to the Nazis, Britain desperately prepared for an invasion. The United States shuttled hundreds of planes to England via the Snowball Route, a series of secret bases on Newfoundland, Greenland and Iceland. But in 1942 one squadron never completed the journey. A sudden July storm forced 8 planes to…

[FONT=&quot]. . . During the last 100 years, [/FONT]Greenland oscillated [FONT=&quot]between gaining and losing ice. Its greatest loss raised sea level by 0.07 inches in 2012, about half the total sea level rise of 0.12 inches a year. That accelerated loss was trumpeted as just what climate models predict. However, Greenland’s melt rates then declined and by 2017 it was gaining enough ice to slightly reduce sea level rise. . . . [/FONT]
Click to expand...

Oh look a blog
 
Re: Greenland's Melting Ice Nears a Tipping Point

Steve Case said:
There's this NASA supported web page... where you can find this cute little map... which says that Greenland doesn't melt very often at very many places.
Click to expand...
Incorrect. It says that about half of the ice sheet melts at some point during the year.

The ice sheet is 660,000 square miles. So basically, the area that had some melt in 2018 is around the same size as Texas.

If you look at the FULL graphic, and read the FULL article, you'd know that what they're saying does not support your skepticism. E.g. they point out how there were multiple massive melt spikes during the summer, which were among the largest on record; how the glaciers are flowing faster now than in the past; and as a result, even with above-average snowfall in 2018, the ice sheet won't change much this year.

Oh, and the NSIDC are the ones that produced the data used for this chart....

GrnLndMassTrnd-350x260.png


I hate to disappoint you, but talk about Greenland losing ice mass is not going to stop any time soon, because Greenland's ice sheet will not stop losing ice mass any time soon.
 
Re: Greenland's Melting Ice Nears a Tipping Point

Visbek said:
Incorrect. It says that about half of the ice sheet melts at some point during the year.

The ice sheet is 660,000 square miles. So basically, the area that had some melt in 2018 is around the same size as Texas.

If you look at the FULL graphic, and read the FULL article, you'd know that what they're saying does not support your skepticism. E.g. they point out how there were multiple massive melt spikes during the summer, which were among the largest on record; how the glaciers are flowing faster now than in the past; and as a result, even with above-average snowfall in 2018, the ice sheet won't change much this year.

Oh, and the NSIDC are the ones that produced the data used for this chart....

GrnLndMassTrnd-350x260.png


I hate to disappoint you, but talk about Greenland losing ice mass is not going to stop any time soon, because Greenland's ice sheet will not stop losing ice mass any time soon.
Click to expand...

They obviously don’t know anything about the Mississippi River. Harrumph!
 
Re: Greenland's Melting Ice Nears a Tipping Point

Visbek said:
Incorrect. It says that about half of the ice sheet melts at some point during the year.

The ice sheet is 660,000 square miles. So basically, the area that had some melt in 2018 is around the same size as Texas.

If you look at the FULL graphic, and read the FULL article, you'd know that what they're saying does not support your skepticism. E.g. they point out how there were multiple massive melt spikes during the summer, which were among the largest on record; how the glaciers are flowing faster now than in the past; and as a result, even with above-average snowfall in 2018, the ice sheet won't change much this year.

Oh, and the NSIDC are the ones that produced the data used for this chart....

GrnLndMassTrnd-350x260.png


I hate to disappoint you, but talk about Greenland losing ice mass is not going to stop any time soon, because Greenland's ice sheet will not stop losing ice mass any time soon.
Click to expand...

From the link in #333:

[FONT=&quot]. . . During the last 100 years, Greenland oscillated between gaining and losing ice. Its greatest loss raised sea level by 0.07 inches in 2012, about half the total sea level rise of 0.12 inches a year. That accelerated loss was trumpeted as just what climate models predict. However, Greenland’s melt rates then declined and by 2017 it was gaining enough ice to slightly reduce sea level rise.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Furthermore, the cause of rapidly melting ice since the 1990s was fewer clouds. Fewer summer clouds allow more solar heating and cycles of atmospheric circulation naturally alter cloud cover. In addition, researchers reported Greenland’s ice-free regions experienced various warming and cooling trends over the past 15 years, but concluded if there was any general trend, “it is mostly a cooling”. They also admitted they “cannot differentiate between anthropogenic forcing [in other words: warming from human added CO2] and natural fluctuations.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]A similar warming and melting episode occurred decades earlier. Climate scientists determined Greenland had warmed most rapidly between 1920 and 1940. As reported by the IPCC, “temperature has risen significantly since the early 1990s, reaching values similar to those in the 1930s.”Regards accelerated rates of sea level rise from melting ice, the IPCC reported “It is likely that similarly high rates occurred between 1920 and 1950.” Intriguingly, much lower CO2concentrations still resulted in similar warming, melting and rates of sea level rise.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Until Greenland’s temperatures and ice-melt exceed the 1930s episode, scientists cannot distinguish between natural variability and human-caused warming. The current trend is too short to be certain, but the past 2 years suggest Greenland is now entering a cooling cycle. In fact, based on my analyses of published scientific reports regards decades-long cycles of migrating fish into and out of the Arctic, and circulation effects of Atlantic oscillations, I boldly blogged in 2014, we would soon see Greenland begin to gain ice, as it is now doing. . . . [/FONT]
 
Re: Greenland's Melting Ice Nears a Tipping Point

Jack Hays said:
From the link in #333:

[FONT=&quot]. . . During the last 100 years, Greenland oscillated between gaining and losing ice. Its greatest loss raised sea level by 0.07 inches in 2012, about half the total sea level rise of 0.12 inches a year. That accelerated loss was trumpeted as just what climate models predict. However, Greenland’s melt rates then declined and by 2017 it was gaining enough ice to slightly reduce sea level rise.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Furthermore, the cause of rapidly melting ice since the 1990s was fewer clouds. Fewer summer clouds allow more solar heating and cycles of atmospheric circulation naturally alter cloud cover. In addition, researchers reported Greenland’s ice-free regions experienced various warming and cooling trends over the past 15 years, but concluded if there was any general trend, “it is mostly a cooling”. They also admitted they “cannot differentiate between anthropogenic forcing [in other words: warming from human added CO2] and natural fluctuations.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]A similar warming and melting episode occurred decades earlier. Climate scientists determined Greenland had warmed most rapidly between 1920 and 1940. As reported by the IPCC, “temperature has risen significantly since the early 1990s, reaching values similar to those in the 1930s.”Regards accelerated rates of sea level rise from melting ice, the IPCC reported “It is likely that similarly high rates occurred between 1920 and 1950.” Intriguingly, much lower CO2concentrations still resulted in similar warming, melting and rates of sea level rise.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Until Greenland’s temperatures and ice-melt exceed the 1930s episode, scientists cannot distinguish between natural variability and human-caused warming. The current trend is too short to be certain, but the past 2 years suggest Greenland is now entering a cooling cycle. In fact, based on my analyses of published scientific reports regards decades-long cycles of migrating fish into and out of the Arctic, and circulation effects of Atlantic oscillations, I boldly blogged in 2014, we would soon see Greenland begin to gain ice, as it is now doing. . . . [/FONT]
Click to expand...

Non expert ‘boldly blogs’.

LOL.
 
Re: Greenland's Melting Ice Nears a Tipping Point

Threegoofs said:
An expert on glaciology, the arctic, and fish populations?

Right.
Click to expand...
Apparently, he has an MA in biology, and spent his career studying ornithology and botany.

Obviously, that makes him more qualified than scientists with PhDs and years of experience in climate science.

He now does... something, who knows what, with the "CO2 Coalition" which is, I kid you not, a pro-CO2 organization. As in, they actually want higher CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere. They claim that "Current CO2 levels of 400 ppm are still much less than optimum for most plant growth" and "Higher carbon dioxide levels will be beneficial for the Developing World." Those are actual quotes from their website.
CO2 Coalition | CO2 Fundamentals
 
Re: Greenland's Melting Ice Nears a Tipping Point

Visbek said:
Apparently, he has an MA in biology, and spent his career studying ornithology and botany.

Obviously, that makes him more qualified than scientists with PhDs and years of experience in climate science.

He now does... something, who knows what, with the "CO2 Coalition" which is, I kid you not, a pro-CO2 organization. As in, they actually want higher CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere. They claim that "Current CO2 levels of 400 ppm are still much less than optimum for most plant growth" and "Higher carbon dioxide levels will be beneficial for the Developing World." Those are actual quotes from their website.
CO2 Coalition | CO2 Fundamentals
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to see you joining in the puerile ad hominems rather than discussing the substance. Steele made some important points.
He was the Director of San Francisco State's Sierra Nevada Field Campus for over twenty years.
 
Last edited:
Re: Greenland's Melting Ice Nears a Tipping Point

Jack Hays said:
I'm sorry to see you joining in the puerile ad hominems rather than discussing the substance. Steele made some important points.
Click to expand...

Ad hominems.

LOL.

It’s like going to a guy for a colonoscopy, and he’s a podiatrist.

Questioning his qualifications to remove polyps is not an ad hominem...
 
Re: Greenland's Melting Ice Nears a Tipping Point

Threegoofs said:
Ad hominems.

LOL.

It’s like going to a guy for a colonoscopy, and he’s a podiatrist.

Questioning his qualifications to remove polyps is not an ad hominem...
Click to expand...

Wrong again. He was the Director of the Sierra Nevada Field Campus, supervising a broad spectrum of climate and environmental research. His opinions on these matters are well informed.
And once again you are dodging the substance. More cowardice.
 
Last edited:
Jack Hays said:
Wrong again. He was the Director of the Sierra Nevada Field Campus, supervising a broad spectrum of climate and environmental research. His opinions on these matters are well informed.
And once again you are dodging the substance. More cowardice.
Click to expand...

Not glaciers. Not the arctic.

Just like Dr Footie used scopes and practiced medicine.. just not north of the knee.
 
Re: Greenland's Melting Ice Nears a Tipping Point

Jack Hays said:
Wrong again. He was the Director of the Sierra Nevada Field Campus, supervising a broad spectrum of climate and environmental research. His opinions on these matters are well informed.
Click to expand...
lol

The Sierra Nevada Field Campus is, in their own words, a "nature camp for adults."

This summer, Mr (not Dr) Steele is teaching a class on birdsongs. The Campus is also teaching classes on watercolor painting and "Copperplate Calligraphy Illuminated by the Sierra."

They don't do climate research. He does not do climate research. He basically maintained a small eco preserve. Running that center, to put it mildly, does not in any way establish his credentials in the field of climate science.

(Finding out what the Field Campus actually is took me about 2 minutes. Maybe you should have done the same, before proclaiming that running it makes him an expert in an unrelated field.)

The process by which he became a climate change denier also trashes his credibility (when it comes to climate science, not his work at the Nature Camp For Adults). He basically looked at the max daily temps for one station (Tahoe), saw it wasn't changing much, and decided that climate change was all a result of ENSOs. To put it mildly, that sounds rather delusional, since we can remove the impact of ENSOs and still see temperatures rising. And, of course, it is wholly unscientific to measure global temperatures by looking at the thermometer in your backyard.

As usual, deniers will cling to anyone who can claim to be a "scientist" to bolster their views -- even when their scientific training (e.g. degrees in biology, work experience in ornithology) have very little to do with climate science. Any port in a storm....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom