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Gettysburg[W:176]

apdst said:
1. Prior to Gettysburg, General Lee was handing the Federals's asses to them on a pretty regular basis. It's a common belief and agree that he had a mild heart attack just before, or on 1 July. He certainly wasn't thinking clearly. But, that's only one factor that contributed to the culmination of events that led up to The Battle of Gettysburg.

2. If General Lee had listened to General Longstreet, there wouldn't have been a Battle of Gettysburg. The ANV would have broke contact and engaged the AOP at a time and place that was more advantageous to the ANV.

3. Who knows?
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Lee had to force a Union defeat, with limited resources and limited time. Choosing the best ground was, "expensive in both".
 
apdst said:
The Confederates didn't have bad artillery. They didn't have enough of it and too little ammunition.

The arty prep prior to Pickett's Charge was ended too soon before the troops stepped off, giving the Federals more time to reorganize. Why that happened is still open to debate. Some have gone as far to claim that General Longstreet ordered the artillery to cease fire to sabotage the attack.
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mobile confederate artillery was supposed to provide support to the confederate assault brigades; for maximum force at any given point.
 
Would it have taken the equivalent to Napoleon's imperial staff instead of a general staff, to let Lee "take the high ground and dig in"?
 
apdst said:
There was no such thing as a 10 pd ordnance rifle, nor a 3 in. Rodman Gun.
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10 pdr. Ordnance Rifle - CivilWarWiki
The 3 inch Rodman was a modification of 3 inch rifles used at Atlanta.

Also, there were no Federal Parrott rifles at Gettysburg.
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I just checked at that seems to be true, though the south had 4.

As far as quality goes Federal and the Confederate artillery were pretty evenly matched.
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Crews or artillery pieces? The US had superior artillery pieces(economics) and more of them. As far as skill in operation and use, it varied during the course of the war.
 
danielpalos said:
mobile confederate artillery was supposed to provide support to the confederate assault brigades; for maximum force at any given point.
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Rederess was right in an earlier post: the artillery couldn't close in such a way because of the extended range of new infantry rifles. Artillery crews had zero protection, they didn't even have personal weapons, save an occassional sword, or knife. They had to stay outside the range of the infantry, or they would be shot to pieces. That lesson had been learned by the time Gettysburg rolled around.

danielpalos said:
Lee had to force a Union defeat, with limited resources and limited time. Choosing the best ground was, "expensive in both".
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All General Lee had to do was force the Federals to accept peace terms.

Forcing The United States to surrender was never a reality.

By the summer of 63 the Federal desertion rate was at 12%. Time was the one thing had an abundance of.
 
apdst said:
Rederess was right in an earlier post: the artillery couldn't close in such a way because of the extended range of new infantry rifles. Artillery crews had zero protection, they didn't even have personal weapons, save an occassional sword, or knife. They had to stay outside the range of the infantry, or they would be shot to pieces. That lesson had been learned by the time Gettysburg rolled around.
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I agree to disagree with that assessment. "Confederate assault infantry brigades were advancing on Union front lines; and providing suppression and counter fire support for confederate artillery".
 
apdst said:
All General Lee had to do was force the Federals to accept peace terms.

Forcing The United States to surrender was never a reality.

By the summer of 63 the Federal desertion rate was at 12%. Time was the one thing had an abundance of.
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Only in that vacuum of special pleading.
 
Redress said:
10 pdr. Ordnance Rifle - CivilWarWiki
The 3 inch Rodman was a modification of 3 inch rifles used at Atlanta.



I just checked at that seems to be true, though the south had 4.



Crews or artillery pieces? The US had superior artillery pieces(economics) and more of them. As far as skill in operation and use, it varied during the course of the war.
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Who ever wrote that is full of ****. "Pound" was a rference to the bore diameter, not the shell weight. A 10 pd piece had a 2.9" bore, not a 3" bore. 12pd: 4.62", 6pd: 3.67", 24pd: 5.32"(?) Etc

Of course it's true. In 1862 The AOP started getting rid of the Parrott in favor of the Ordnance Rifle.

In gun quality, the Federals and the Confederates were pretty much evenly matched.

Of course the Federal artillerists were inferior to Confederate artillerists. That's a given.
 
danielpalos said:
I agree to disagree with that assessment. "Confederate assault infantry brigades were advancing on Union front lines; and providing suppression and counter fire support for confederate artillery".
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Where'd you get that quote?
 
This is a response to the OP.

The answer to your questions is in Gone for Soldiers. It's terrific historical fiction about the early career of Lee. It's popular, your library can get you a copy easily if they don't have it.

The South was nearly out of gas, the North wasn't going to stop. It was just a matter of time, even if they won that battle.

https://www.amazon.com/Gone-Soldier...preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch
 
danielpalos said:
just my story; not sourced.
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The infantry wasn't supporting the artillery during Picketts Charge. The artillery was supporting the infantry's attack. Or, it was supposed to be.
 
Higgins86 said:
So I just finished a great book called " Killer angels" which was a great introduction to the US Civil War, I don't really know a ton about the civil war but I have the bug now and have another book on the way. I did finish" Killer angels" with a couple of questions and I was hoping someone on here might be able to
tackle them for me.

1. Why was ( and still is) Lee considered a great General? From what I read his tactics cost the confederates that battle and Pickett's charge was a calamity.

2. If Lee had listen to Longstreet do you think the confederates could have won that battle?

3. If the confederates had won do you think that would have ended the war? If yes do you think the Union would have accepted the two state scenario or would they have eventually looked to retake the South?
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You need to go there. I've been there twice as a re-enactor and twice on vacation and although it is a bit tourist trappy it's a great place to visit. My impression was that Lee was trying to force an end to the war and a victory at Gettysburg would have done that. If the Confederate forces could have gotten between the Union forces and Washington the advantage would have been theirs. Both Picketts Charge and little round top were ill considered attacks. I have stood on the field where Picketts Charge happened and it's a long way to go with no cover.
 
it's just me said:
You need to go there. I've been there twice as a re-enactor and twice on vacation and although it is a bit tourist trappy it's a great place to visit. My impression was that Lee was trying to force an end to the war and a victory at Gettysburg would have done that. If the Confederate forces could have gotten between the Union forces and Washington the advantage would have been theirs. Both Picketts Charge and little round top were ill considered attacks. I have stood on the field where Picketts Charge happened and it's a long way to go with no cover.
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And they had to jump the fences along the Emmitsburg road, under fire.
 
apdst said:
The infantry wasn't supporting the artillery during Picketts Charge. The artillery was supporting the infantry's attack. Or, it was supposed to be.
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Routine, matter of course infantry stuff.

and, the confederate artillery was claimed to overshoot by too much.

a better plan would have allowed the infantry to follow as close as the last, closest shot.
 
In war, the guy that makes the next to last mistake wins.
 
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