Game of Thrones season 7. [Spoilers]

[AGENT J]

LOL HBO are noobs... they released the next episode by accident 6 days before its release... and of course it is all over the net now. They gonna blame hackers for that one as well? Was up for 1 hour, just long enough to rip it .. odd...

Im watching it now

 

[haymarket]

What? this season has moved so fast compared to other seasons

Yes - the pace of this year is two or three times the pace of previous years. Its pretty much action in every episode where as in previous years they used several episodes to do what they are doing this year in each episode.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Now maybe I was not drunk enough but that episode tonight was only 4/10, the least enjoyable of this very short season. It had the feel of everyone running out of gas.

Except for The Hound, he was cool.

 

[Absentglare]

Now maybe I was not drunk enough but that episode tonight was only 4/10, the least enjoyable of this very short season. It had the feel of everyone running out of gas.

Except for The Hound, he was cool.

Really? I thought it had some great moments.

There are a few things that felt rushed, like they've had a few short scenes to advance the plot but not the characters. And i think the Sansa/Arya conflict is kinda stupid, i don't think they put enough work into Littlefinger's prying.

Like, what the **** is Bran doing?

 

[Hawkeye10]

Really? I thought it had some great moments.

There are a few things that felt rushed, like they've had a few short scenes to advance the plot but not the characters. And i think the Sansa/Arya conflict is kinda stupid, i don't think they put enough work into Littlefinger's prying.

Like, what the **** is Bran doing?

Sure there were big important plot moments but overall I was not feeling it.

It might have been me, which is why I am here wanting to compare notes.

 

[Absentglare]

Sure there were big important plot moments but overall I was not feeling it.

It might have been me, which is why I am here wanting to compare notes.

Well you did tag the hound, i think he had the best lines. Toramund was cool too.

And then there's how Gendry Maratheon ran farther in a few minutes than he rowed for three seasons.

 

[Mach]

It was fairly slow plot-wise, but you had so many "heroes" from the years, all chatting as they marched through the snow...I enjoyed that.
Arya was always kind of a twit, but now she's an over-confident twit. She didn't grow the way I had hoped. I think the Hound has more humanity than she does.

And yeah, compared to the other seasons, this season has been the equivalent of shock and awe every episode in terms of getting **** done.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Well you did tag the hound, i think he had the best lines. Toramund was cool too.

And then there's how Gendry Maratheon ran farther in a few minutes than he rowed for three seasons.

"Uninspired" is a good word for the dialog I thought.

OUT OF GAS

 

[Mr Person]

All the living commanders are imbeciles.


The only one who was marginally competent was Jaime, for forming an infantry square. Yet even then it wasn't quite the proper formation. For one thing, you'd want forward ranks to plant their spears in the ground as best they could in the time they had. (Unlike a bayonet/musket square, where you quite obviously need the current front line to be aiming their muskets at the incoming charge).

As for the Drothraki, they only carried a single melee weapon. That's foolish. Your cavalry does carry a melee weapon, but also either needs a pole-range lance (to break the square) or a missile weapon, if they are instead mounted archers. Your calvary most certainly does not charge at an infantry pike square with pole weapons if all you've got is a scimitar and the momentum of a horse (nevermind that your horse might have a thing or two to say about crashing into ranks of pikes).

And Jon? Jon is just hopeless. I won't go on about the others...



Anyway, more general worries on the show's future:

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/08/deus-ex-westeros/537480/

 

[Mr Person]

All in all, I found LOTR (the books; don't like the movies much) an infinitely more believable world than GoT. Its history feels like a genuine history for the world it applies to: despite all he wrote, we still only know about as much as the most learned scholar could know about the limited part of the planet spoken of - the northwest of one continent. Most importantly of all, it is internally consistent. Oh, right. And time actually passes at a consistent rate in LOTR. In GoT, things happen whenever the plot demands them. Apparently GoT pidgeons can travel at near light speed; dragons too. Maybe they're really African swallows in disguise...


(and before anyone says "but the eagles could just fly the ring to the mountain!", just...NO. (1) The eye would spot them, the mountain be fortified/sealed, the quest utterly hopeless, (2) the more "great" the being, the stronger the pull, and more. But this is tangential....)

 

[longview]

All in all, I found LOTR (the books; don't like the movies much) an infinitely more believable world than GoT. Its history feels like a genuine history for the world it applies to: despite all he wrote, we still only know about as much as the most learned scholar could know about the limited part of the planet spoken of - the northwest of one continent. Most importantly of all, it is internally consistent. Oh, right. And time actually passes at a consistent rate in LOTR. In GoT, things happen whenever the plot demands them. Apparently GoT pidgeons can travel at near light speed; dragons too. Maybe they're really African swallows in disguise...


(and before anyone says "but the eagles could just fly the ring to the mountain!", just...NO. (1) The eye would spot them, the mountain be fortified/sealed, the quest utterly hopeless, (2) the more "great" the being, the stronger the pull, and more. But this is tangential....)

Yea, I think the time line is off, some things take months, others just a few hours.
Dragonstone is like 2000 miles from Eastwatch. From the time they send the runner to the wall until the dragon show up loos to be no
more that a day at most.

 

[Apocalypse]

This episode was so stupid it gave me a headache.

What was this zombie-bear fight all about? How come the group isn't helping the one that is attacked by the bear and later on the wights for like 20-30 seconds while he is being attacked, every single time?
What are they doing in that time, staring?
And why didn't Benjen just go with Jon? Why did he have to stay and do his weird dancing and die there? "There's no time"? There was plenty of time to just get on that horse with him and get out of there.

I dunno, it had some very good moments like the Dany to the rescue scene but overall the writing was at its poorest.

 

[Baralis]

I didnt understand why Jon didnt just ask Dany to fly over the wall and take a look for herself. Her dragon could have picked up a walker to send to Cersi.

 

[Hawkeye10]

This episode was so stupid it gave me a headache.

What was this zombie-bear fight all about? How come the group isn't helping the one that is attacked by the bear and later on the wights for like 20-30 seconds while he is being attacked, every single time?
What are they doing in that time, staring?
And why didn't Benjen just go with Jon? Why did he have to stay and do his weird dancing and die there? "There's no time"? There was plenty of time to just get on that horse with him and get out of there.

I dunno, it had some very good moments like the Dany to the rescue scene but overall the writing was at its poorest.

A point that Lili Loofbourow at The Week makes well:

The series got timid about making its characters pay the price, and Game of Thrones' credit has run out. That the show uses spectacle as a crutch for its graceless Heffalump of a plot is putting it mildly. At this point, spectacle is basically all it has. Poorly explained, ill-plotted, unreasonably stupid spectacle at that. I wrote about the unreasonable plot acrobatics of "Eastwatch," about the show's increasingly lazy reliance on magic, and about the odd misdirection of "The Spoils of War." (I confess I even called this last one one of the series' best episodes, assuming its significance and stakes would be explained. I was wrong.)

Game of Thrones has become a terrible show

A point several of us were making last year here at DP, and yes this is very aggravating given all the money this show has to spread around. Are there now so few good writers in Hollywood that decent writing is too much to expect anymore? It could be, this country has really gone to pot, but somehow I figure they could have managed had they wanted to.

This last show was simply not fun for me, the stupidity is part of it but what really got to me was the "phone it in" dialogue, the lack of wit, the lack of charm.

First Weeds, then Mad Men and how GOTH it appears go out with a whimper rather than the hoped for bang.

Whatever it used to be, it's now simply the case that Game of Thrones — that sometime iconoclast, that killer of heroes — has become expensive, and toothless, and terrible.

 

[Winchester]

What? this season has moved so fast compared to other seasons

My son told me that it's akin to a bunch of people playing D&D, they look at the clock, it's 1:00am and everyone has to go to work in the morning... time to wrap this thing up.

I also want to know where they're keeping the GOT transporter. :lol:

 

[Goshin]

I've enjoyed this season, mainly because (at last!) the plot MOVES. The dragons are here; winter is here; the climax approaches rapidly.


I'll admit though there are some plot holes appearing more often, along with some odd turns that don't seem to quite fit. Arya/Sansa conflict feels wrong.



One thing to note, the series has passed beyond what George RR Martin has published. Supposedly they're using some of his unwritten manuscripts for the last two books as a basis (they say), but you can kind of tell that the storyline has changed and someone else is doing the writing.


Still I do likes me some spectacles, after all the waiting.

 

[Goshin]

Yea, I think the time line is off, some things take months, others just a few hours.
Dragonstone is like 2000 miles from Eastwatch. From the time they send the runner to the wall until the dragon show up loos to be no
more that a day at most.

I know, that was a bit blatant.


Carrier raven from Eastwatch to Dragonstone should have took a few days at least.

Dragon flight from D-stone to the far north.... over 2000 miles... well dragons may be fast but they're not jet aircraft, that should have taken a couple of days minimum.



Plot teleportation.

 

[Goshin]

All the living commanders are imbeciles.


The only one who was marginally competent was Jaime, for forming an infantry square. Yet even then it wasn't quite the proper formation. For one thing, you'd want forward ranks to plant their spears in the ground as best they could in the time they had. (Unlike a bayonet/musket square, where you quite obviously need the current front line to be aiming their muskets at the incoming charge).

As for the Drothraki, they only carried a single melee weapon. That's foolish. Your cavalry does carry a melee weapon, but also either needs a pole-range lance (to break the square) or a missile weapon, if they are instead mounted archers. Your calvary most certainly does not charge at an infantry pike square with pole weapons if all you've got is a scimitar and the momentum of a horse (nevermind that your horse might have a thing or two to say about crashing into ranks of pikes).

And Jon? Jon is just hopeless. I won't go on about the others...



Anyway, more general worries on the show's future:

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/08/deus-ex-westeros/537480/

I noted the unrealistic elements in the Dothraki/Dragon vs Lannister battle to my son at the time.

Historically, horses don't like charging directly into a line of spears or pikes held steady in mass..... nor do horses generally charge through an area still burning like it was nothing. Most horses are terrified of fire and training them out of this fear is exceedingly difficult.


It WAS quite a spectacle and I did enjoy it, but the tactical realism blunders did detract from it somewhat.


I was reminded how much I despise the Dothraki when one of them said to Tyrion, "Your people can't fight".

I wish Tyrion had turned to him and said "Let's see how YOUR people fight when they're outnumbered 5 to 1 AND being lit on fire by a flying dragon, THEN you can brag!"

 

[Crovax]

My son told me that it's akin to a bunch of people playing D&D, they look at the clock, it's 1:00am and everyone has to go to work in the morning... time to wrap this thing up.

I also want to know where they're keeping the GOT transporter. :lol:

The green is where Jon Snow has gone and the red is where the white walkers have gone since the Hardhome episode

 

[Mach]

I didnt understand why Jon didnt just ask Dany to fly over the wall and take a look for herself. Her dragon could have picked up a walker to send to Cersi.

Yeah, considering it apparently took her no time, what's the big deal? Fly there, claw grab one, air drop it on Cerci's head, home for tea. I mean, it's so fast no one can prepare or set up an ambush even.

The entire White Walker thing is strange in general. They have been walking since what, season 1? The big impending doom...that is not really impending. And the walkers are FAST, did you see how they were basically outrunning Jon when they were hitting the ice? But they have been marching for months and months and months. Maybe the books explain it better.

I feel like Martin gets an A for the interesting characters, character development, and the political intrigue styled plot. Translates well to a TV series. Not my personal favorite style, but he did it really well for the genre. The fantasy and white walker stuff, just seems sort of ladled on top of that, almost not really fitting.

 

[Nilly]

All in all, I found LOTR (the books; don't like the movies much) an infinitely more believable world than GoT. Its history feels like a genuine history for the world it applies to: despite all he wrote, we still only know about as much as the most learned scholar could know about the limited part of the planet spoken of - the northwest of one continent. Most importantly of all, it is internally consistent. Oh, right. And time actually passes at a consistent rate in LOTR. In GoT, things happen whenever the plot demands them. Apparently GoT pidgeons can travel at near light speed; dragons too. Maybe they're really African swallows in disguise...


(and before anyone says "but the eagles could just fly the ring to the mountain!", just...NO. (1) The eye would spot them, the mountain be fortified/sealed, the quest utterly hopeless, (2) the more "great" the being, the stronger the pull, and more. But this is tangential....)

I don't think it's fair to compare LoTR books vs GoT tv show. You should use the book series for comparison.

 

[Goshin]

Yeah, considering it apparently took her no time, what's the big deal? Fly there, claw grab one, air drop it on Cerci's head, home for tea. I mean, it's so fast no one can prepare or set up an ambush even.

The entire White Walker thing is strange in general. They have been walking since what, season 1? The big impending doom...that is not really impending. And the walkers are FAST, did you see how they were basically outrunning Jon when they were hitting the ice? But they have been marching for months and months and months. Maybe the books explain it better.

I feel like Martin gets an A for the interesting characters, character development, and the political intrigue styled plot. Translates well to a TV series. Not my personal favorite style, but he did it really well for the genre. The fantasy and white walker stuff, just seems sort of ladled on top of that, almost not really fitting.

I believe GRRM said at one point that he wanted the book series to be mostly realistic and political, and the magical/fantasy stuff more of a backdrop rather than the primary focus.


Of course given that the conclusion inevitably had to deal with the long-looming magical/fantasy issues (dragons, undead, white walkers) he might have set it up a little better.


of course we're just seeing the HBO version... the final two books are not out yet. GRRM doesn't get in any hurry with his books. :shrug:

 

[Goshin]

Yeah, considering it apparently took her no time, what's the big deal? Fly there, claw grab one, air drop it on Cerci's head, home for tea. I mean, it's so fast no one can prepare or set up an ambush even.

The entire White Walker thing is strange in general. They have been walking since what, season 1? The big impending doom...that is not really impending. And the walkers are FAST, did you see how they were basically outrunning Jon when they were hitting the ice? But they have been marching for months and months and months. Maybe the books explain it better.

I feel like Martin gets an A for the interesting characters, character development, and the political intrigue styled plot. Translates well to a TV series. Not my personal favorite style, but he did it really well for the genre. The fantasy and white walker stuff, just seems sort of ladled on top of that, almost not really fitting.

Dropping a Walker on Cersei's head is a VERY entertaining mental image.


She is quite a fascinating character; her capacity for truly EPIC revenge provokes both horror and a certain grudging admiration.... but on the whole I look forward to seeing her go down.

 

[haymarket]

All in all, I found LOTR (the books; don't like the movies much) an infinitely more believable world than GoT. Its history feels like a genuine history for the world it applies to: despite all he wrote, we still only know about as much as the most learned scholar could know about the limited part of the planet spoken of - the northwest of one continent. Most importantly of all, it is internally consistent. Oh, right. And time actually passes at a consistent rate in LOTR. In GoT, things happen whenever the plot demands them. Apparently GoT pidgeons can travel at near light speed; dragons too. Maybe they're really African swallows in disguise...


(and before anyone says "but the eagles could just fly the ring to the mountain!", just...NO. (1) The eye would spot them, the mountain be fortified/sealed, the quest utterly hopeless, (2) the more "great" the being, the stronger the pull, and more. But this is tangential....)

Excellent analysis. Well done!!!

Every thing about LOTR is superior to GofT - the books and the cinema adaptions - and everything in them. Having said that - LOTR is an extremely high standard that is unfair to apply to anything else. I have enjoyed the HBO series and the new pacing with more action and more visual eye candy in terms of epic events and creatures is very pleasing to me.... which is why I watch in the first place.

 

[Mr Person]

I don't think it's fair to compare LoTR books vs GoT tv show. You should use the book series for comparison.

I can't, because I haven't read them. I know it's a fault in the comparison, but I've got about five hundred other books on my reading list first...