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Franklin Graham blasts Buttigieg for being gay

beefheart said:
I care because it is about exposing the evangelicals as the hypocrites that they are. They are the ones pounding their morality on everyone else, but they are also the ones that are showing everyone that they are full of crap.

It doesn't matter to me what the bible condones or doesn''t condone, much as it doesn't matter what the Koran or Talmud or the Harry Potter books condone or don't condone. If god thinks homosexuality is a sin, then it is his fault, he created homosexuality. I notice you don't seem to give adultery as much concern do you? I mean, it's mentioned specifically in your bible...
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Ah....you 'care' about hypocrisy...which is the crux of the question...which you refuse to answer. It shouldnt matter to you if the bible describes your sexuality as sinful or not. But you WOULD agree that it would matter to a Christian if the bible described his or her sexuality as sinful...correct? Since hypocrisy 'matters' to you. So...does the Bible...both the old and New testament..teach that homosexuality is a sin? Its such a direct and straightforward question.
 
Lovebug said:
Why is it ok for Buttigieg to criticize Christians, but not for Christians to respond? Pence did so in a very respectful manner, and Graham speaks the truth has he sees it. He isn't "blasting" the candidate, he is giving an opinion. That is still allowed, is it not?
The mayor would be wise to win votes by being as respectful as he wishes to be treated.
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Why is ok for Graham to speak the truth as he sees it, and not us? Graham was essentially telling Buttigieg to shut up. That's ok, but not us thinking Graham should shut up?

Everything is so confusing these days...
 
VanceMack said:
Ah....you 'care' about hypocrisy...which is the crux of the question...which you refuse to answer. It shouldnt matter to you if the bible describes your sexuality as sinful or not. But you WOULD agree that it would matter to a Christian if the bible described his or her sexuality as sinful...correct? Since hypocrisy 'matters' to you. So...does the Bible...both the old and New testament..teach that homosexuality is a sin? Its such a direct and straightforward question.
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The Bible does not condemn “homosexuality.” Seriously, it doesn’t.
 
VanceMack said:
Regardless of your feelings on whether or not you were born gay, does that change the description of homosexuality in both the old and new testament as a sin?
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Oh no, I wouldn't disagree. The bible is a terrible book, which advocates slavery, genocide, bigotry, human sacrifice, and of course, attacking gays.

I was just pointing out how most Christians who use the bible to justify their beliefs are actually nothing more than hypocrites, only using the bible when it suits their needs, ignoring it when it doesn't.

I have more respect for these guys, even if I totally disagree with their stance on virtually every subject. At least they aren't hypocrites.

SPLC_Westboro-Baptist-Church.jpg
 
apdst said:
According to the Bible both are a sin and that's a fact. It isn't a matter of opinion. It's the height of hypocrisy to agree with part of the Bible and disagree with the parts you don't like.
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...and, of course, divorcing your wife and marrying another is also a sin. Being married for a second time is being in a perpetual state of adultery.

Man is a sinner by nature.... and, sin is sin, with no one sin worse than another. Greed, avarice, gossip, bearing false witness, coveting are all sins. Moreover, as Christ taught us in Matthew 5, a sin is not an act but a state of mind. Sins of the heart are the same as sins of action.

Christianity, the world's simplest, yet most complex religion.

Sin is sin. Being particularly offended by one sin from a man that is after God's heart, as FGraham is here, while looking away from a man who thinks he is God (or God's equal) and in reality, who's entire life is pretty much just sin, is the height of hypocrisy.

In doing this, Graham has also sullied himself. He has little moral authority.
 
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roguenuke said:
A cultural Christian would still be Christian so long as they simply follow the teachings of Jesus Christ and give him credit for those beliefs. It doesn't matter how much they believe in the Bible or even if they necessarily consider all of what is in the Bible as being from Jesus as true or absolute. Only that they follow his teachings in some major way and give credit to him.

Definition of Christian:

Christian | Define Christian at Dictionary.com



You could simply choose one or multiple, and they would fit with what I said above about being a Christian.
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And, again, you run into the problem that it was Christ who gave us the Trinity, who taught us that he was God.

You can't claim to be a thing while denying its defining characteristic - you can't be a Muslim while denying the Prophet status of Muhammad, you can't be an atheist while believing in an omnipotent deity who is also a person, you can't be a human being if you are actually a tree, so on and so forth. What you choose to call yourself is irrelevant. If someone rejects the positions that define Christianity, then they are not Christian, regardless of the title they claim, for whatever purpose.

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tres borrachos said:
Oh stop. You don't know who I worked with, so you have no idea what I know. You're free to think as you will. I'm free to think as I will.
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Anecdotal evidence means squat. You’re free to think as you want, even though it’s wrong.
 
calamity said:
John is whacked, written by Jew hating bastards. It's not gospel. It's evil.
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:) Thanks. I'll put that one right next to "Mossad was responsible for 9/11" and "Jesus and Mary Magdalene's descendent went on an adventure with Tom Hanks".

John is not only Gospel, literally the oldest surviving fragment of a Gospel is a section of John.

Provide biblical quote of Jesus ever calling himself god.
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Sure. Let me get back to my computer (off my phone) later this evening.

Buuut I'm betting most of your responses will sound like the lunacy of your opening line of this post :)

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upsideguy said:
...and, of course, divorcing your wife and marrying another is also a sin. Being married for a second time is being in a perpetual state of adultery.

Man is a sinner by nature.... and, sin is sin, with no one sin worse than another. Greed, avarice, gossip, bearing false witness, coveting are all sins. Moreover, as Christ taught us in Matthew 5, a sin is not an act but a state of mind. Sins of the heart are the same as sins of action.

Christianity, the world's simplest, yet most complex religion.

Sin is sin. Being particularly offended by one sin from a man that is after God's heart, as FGraham is here, while looking away from a man who thinks he is God (or God's equal) and in reality, who's entire life is pretty much just sin, is the height of hypocrisy.

In doing this, Graham has also sullied himself. He has little moral authority.
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Can't say it enough: we're all sinners.
 
apdst said:
Can't say it enough: we're all sinners.
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Yep..... but, there is a difference in the sin of a man with the heart for God (Buttigieg) and one that does not have God in his life (Trump). If anyone should know that difference its Graham. Unfortunately, he is derelict in his duty as a pastor here. He blew a teaching moment in his own selfishness.
 
calamity said:
John is whacked, written by Jew hating bastards. It's not gospel. It's evil.




Provide biblical quote of Jesus ever calling himself god.

I'll wait.
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Philippians 2:5-6 You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.

John 10:30 The Father and I are one.
 
upsideguy said:
Yep..... but, there is a difference in the sin of a man with the heart for God (Buttigieg) and one that does not have God in his life (Trump). If anyone should know that difference its Graham. Unfortunately, he is derelict in his duty as a pastor here. He blew a teaching moment in his own selfishness.
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Who are you to say who doesn't have God in his heart? Did God tell you?
 
cpwill said:
John is not only Gospel, literally the oldest surviving fragment of a Gospel is a section of John.
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Yep, and they have no idea who John was. Although he does appear to have essentially copied the other gospels, following in the footsteps of Matthew and Luke before him, and giving Jesus even more magical powers than those who preceded him.

It's just like a fish story, and naturally the fish keeps getting bigger each time the story is told. Normal human behaviour.
 
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cpwill said:
On the contrary, and to his great discredit: Franklin Graham lost his credibility by actively defending Trump. He sold his witness for political "access", not that it will do him or his faith any good.


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Jesus defended a prostitute. He saved the second criminal.

But, he didn't defend their sin. Therein lies the difference.
 
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HumblePi said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...g-being-gay/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.cb48b121e6ff

‘Not something to be flaunted, praised or politicized’: Franklin Graham blasts Buttigieg for being gay.

In his effort to push through the crowded room of 2020 Democratic presidential candidates, Pete Buttigieg, the gay mayor of South Bend, Ind., has regularly brought up his Christian faith and his experience balancing scripture with his sexuality.

“It can be challenging to be a person of faith who’s also part of the LGBTQ community and yet, to me, the core of faith is regard for one another,” the candidate said at a CNN town hall on Monday. “And part of God’s love is experienced, according to my faith tradition, is in the way that we support one another and, in particular, support the least among us.”

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(mine)

And yet once more, the self-righteous right Christian conservatives show how utterly ignorant and homophobic they are. It was only a matter of time that someone was going to judge Pete Buttigieg for his sexuality and shouldn't be a surprise that it's the son of Billy Graham to do it first. Franklin Graham actually stated that Pete Buttigieg 'should repent' for being gay.
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So this is what we can discern from Franklin Graham.

It is perfectly fine if you do the following:

1. Lie all the time. Literally on the level of a pathological liar. Tell multiple lies a day.

2. Have had 3 wives, always leaving the previous wife as she gets older for a more attractive woman.

3. Have multiple affairs.

4. Brag about sexual assault.

5. Sleep with pornstars when you have a newborn baby at home and then pay them off with hush money.

6. Never grace a church other than for your own weddings. Say your favorite verse is "2 Corinthians".

7. Shower dictators with praise. Even if those dictators have tortured to death American citizens. In fact, you can even go so far as to publicly exonerate a brutal dictator of torturing to death an American citizen.

8. Be a walking personality disorder with a twitter feed that on its best days looks like the rantings of a lunatic.

9. Don't even bother being involved in your own children's lives as they grow up.

Of course that only scratches the surface with Trump, a president that enjoys stronger support among evangelicals than any president ever. However, Trump's continual moral failings are of no concern to Franklin Graham because its not about Christianity to Franklin or morality, or for that matter even common decency. It's about furthering the political agenda of the Religious Right. That is all they care about. The one good thing about Trump is he has revealed Conservative Evangelicals for what they truly are. In that regard, Trump and those evangelicals that blindly support him are God's gift to atheism.

Always remember though, Evangelicals are the most forgiving people on earth as long as the person they are forgiving is a Republican.
 
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VanceMack said:
Ah....you 'care' about hypocrisy...which is the crux of the question...which you refuse to answer. It shouldnt matter to you if the bible describes your sexuality as sinful or not. But you WOULD agree that it would matter to a Christian if the bible described his or her sexuality as sinful...correct? Since hypocrisy 'matters' to you. So...does the Bible...both the old and New testament..teach that homosexuality is a sin? Its such a direct and straightforward question.
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I gave you the answer, the point is moot. The bible is not the book of answers for me, ergo, I don't give a whit what it says about morality. Now, you regard the bible as your law, you can believe whatever fantasy you want to.

And, of course you dodge the whole adultery issue, because you have to, your cognitive dissonance allows you not to see your blatant hypocrisy.
 
JustHanging said:
Yep, and they have no idea who John was. Although he does appear to have essentially copied the other gospels, following in the footsteps of Matthew and Luke before him, and giving Jesus even more magical powers than those who preceded him.

It's just like a fish story, and naturally the fish keeps getting bigger each time the story is told. Normal human behaviour.
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From a historical perspective, the Gospels are like fan fiction.
 
apdst said:
Jesus defended a prostitute. He saved the second criminal.

But, he didn't defend their sin. Therein lies the difference.
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Indeed. Graham's hypocrisy on this issue indeed cuts to the heart of it.


Another facet worth noting in the context of this and the foolish "King David" comparisons is that those people were repentent.

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cpwill said:
Indeed. Graham's hypocrisy on this issue indeed cuts to the heart of it.


Another facet worth noting in the context of this and the foolish "King David" comparisons is that those people were repentent.

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Graham hasn't defended Trump's sins.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
From a historical perspective, the Gospels are like fan fiction.
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At some point ordinary mortal men decided which Gospels would be included in the Bible and which left out. Several Gospels didn't make the cut, partly because someone thought 4 was thee right number.
 
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