For the UFO/aliens visiting earth skeptics

[Paradoxical]

I don't disagree with removing the tax exempt status.

I take it you understand that other religions can have extremists views as extreme as some Christians branches have. To target just one religion in the discussion of alien life is not rational.

Why would I target Islam when it doesn't affect me all that much now that Trump has finally taken care of ISIS where Obama failed?

 

[mike2810]

Why would I target Islam when it doesn't affect me all that much now that Trump has finally taken care of ISIS where Obama failed?

Dodge much.
Do you believe there is no Muslim mosque's in the US?

Seems you are incapable of discussing in broad terms. You say you "loathe all religions.". Isn't that reason enough.:lamo

 

[WCH]

Faith is the antonym of rational analysis.

Faith as supreme confidence needs no analysis or evidence

 

[Paradoxical]

Dodge much.
Do you believe there is no Muslim mosque's in the US?

Seems you are incapable of discussing in broad terms. You say you "loathe all religions.". Isn't that reason enough.:lamo

Why are you on this "other" religions kick. I believe Islam is worse than Christianity. They are a minor presence in America, fortunately. We can see what they are doing in Europe and the Middle East. Islam and Christianity just prove how gullible humans are.

 

[mike2810]

Why are you on this "other" religions kick. I believe Islam is worse than Christianity. They are a minor presence in America, fortunately. We can see what they are doing in Europe and the Middle East. Islam and Christianity just prove how gullible humans are.

Why? Pretty simple, wanted to see if you held the same view for all religions.
You have also shown how intolerant you are with posters who do not share your views.

 

[WCH]

Seems to me the whole movement we see from the Left today is against the State. Can you make a better argument?

Ignorance leads to anarchy leads to tyranny. [Communism]

 

[VanceMack]

Sorry Vance but Christians and particularly evangelical ones, are the least tolerant of all. They are more holy than even the far leftists here. Sanctimony literally oozes out of their nostrils. They use words like bigot, hatred like a leftist uses racist and fascist because they have no way to support and justify their intolerance and totalitarianism. Let's face it, your claims that you are inclusive are pure BS. You disdain homosexuals and atheists every bit as much as the elitist leftists here disdain conservative white people even though they themselves are white.

Be sorry...but be sorry for your own admitted hatred and bigotry. And I dont use words like hatred and bigotry because I'm a Christian...I use words like hatred and bigotry because you by your own admission are a bigot and express your hatred. You dont like that glass slipper, you shouldnt have let it slip off you running from the ball.

Your claims about me are idiotic...but not claims I am not used to. You dont know **** about me...my family, and how I treat others. You have never heard me say ANYTHING of homosexuals beyond my hope for their personal happiness. But again...not shocked...your positions are formed by your own impotent feelings of hatred and bigotry. I dont own them.

 

[Paradoxical]

Why? Pretty simple, wanted to see if you held the same view for all religions.
You have also shown how intolerant you are with posters who do not share your views.

That's like saying atheists have faith.

 

[calamity]

Be sorry...but be sorry for your own admitted hatred and bigotry. And I dont use words like hatred and bigotry because I'm a Christian...I use words like hatred and bigotry because you by your own admission are a bigot and express your hatred. You dont like that glass slipper, you shouldnt have let it slip off you running from the ball.

Your claims about me are idiotic...but not claims I am not used to. You dont know **** about me...my family, and how I treat others. You have never heard me say ANYTHING of homosexuals beyond my hope for their personal happiness. But again...not shocked...your positions are formed by your own impotent feelings of hatred and bigotry. I dont own them.

How is pointing at a fairy tale and laughing hatred and bigotry?

 

[mike2810]

That's like saying atheists have faith.

They believe in something, don't they One might go so far as say they base their believe on "faith" that there is no God.:lamo


"I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell"

 

[Paradoxical]

They believe in something, don't they One might go so far as say they base their believe on "faith" that there is no God.:lamo


"I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell"

It is downright silly to believe that a creator of the entire universe would create a human to test him for 80 years and then torture him for an eternity because he believed in the wrong god. I say it is insanity.

 

[OscarLevant]

What would be the longest sustained acceleration a human can withstand--2g?

So, it would take 1/2 year to get up to the speed of light and another 1/2 year to slow down. And, that's assuming we can somehow actually travel at anything even close to that velocity, far from a given. Long story short, you are not getting from here to there in a spaceship.

Not in a conventional spaceship, and definitely not in a linear manner, per the Einstein speed limit


But, I suspect ETs have sufficiently advanced farther than us mere mortals, and are operating with some other paradigm we have yet to discover.

 

[OscarLevant]

[...]

Until I see some major announcement by the scientific community to the effect of "the martians have landed", I'm comfortable leaving it at that. For what I have read, I believe "first contact" may be something more mundane like a radio transmission rather than a face-to-face contact on our planet itself.

I'm not going to wait. There is evidence of a massive governmental coverup, and the question is, why? the answer is 'weaponization of anti-gravity zero point energy technology, which means whoever masters it, controls the world. We blew it with Nukes, allowing russia to get them, but we do not want the russians nor the chinese to acquire alien technology that we have reverse engineered ( to accept that premise, you'll have to take a long journey with me, which you won't, unless you have a burning curiosity ).

Speaking of Carl Sagan, if you ever haven't seen the film "contact" yet you will want to take a look. I still like the scene where the aliens send back out first transmission if only for the irony of it. This is not how we'd want to introduce ourselves to the neighbours.

Contact gets it wrong. It's entire premise is flawed. It's based on SETI signals discovered.

Reason; Aliens who are able to visit earth have advanced far beyond the need for radio communication, their worlds are telepathic, their whole paradigm is telepathic, which has many ramifications mankind's limited imagination has yet to conceive of; their machines interface with alien telepathic meta processes, integrating machines with more meta aspects of humanity ( using that term to be inclusive of aliens ). In sum, SETI is a flawed enterprise, and though it may detect civilizations that are early in their technological development, the issue of the incredible remoteness of synchronicity isn't being factored in.

The synchronicity issue means that, say, if a typical civilization uses radio for a period, of, say, 300 years, before it advances to the telepathic paradigm, the only civilizations SETI can detect are those whose window of technological development are commensurate with and similar to ours, and given that such signals would be received millions of years after the fact, given that radio waves travel at the speed of light and the millions of light year distances, that 300 year window has to to be in synchronous with the light year distance just in order for SETI to detect it, and out of billions of places in linear time that that 300 year window could exist not synchronous with our planet's real time, the chances of detection are extremely remote. but, once detected, if ever ( in our lifetimes ) such civilizations, in terms of present time, will have advanced far past that period or have long since decayed, died out, destroyed itself, etc. It may very well be true that out of say, a million civilizations, only a small number advance to the level of those ETs who are coming here, which would explain why there is only a handful of alien races being reported.

This idea that aliens would not want to study us is rather bizarre. What do humans make a study of?
If humans study obscure and bizarre things like this:

The 10 Weirdest Science Studies of 2019 | Live Science
In case anyone was wondering, research suggests that female mosquitoes don't care for the musical stylings of Skrillex. A study published in March found that the pests suck less blood and have less sex after listening to the song "Scary Monsters and Nice Sprites" in 10-minute spurts, at least compared with mosquitoes left in silence. But why did a team of insect researchers subject the bugs to Skrillex in the first place? Well, they wondered whether loud music could be used to manipulate mosquito behavior as an "environmentally friendly" alternative to insecticides. The loud music may have distracted the mosquitoes, preventing them from homing in on a nearby food source and potential mates, the team suggested.

And mankind has a thing called 'encyclopedia' which lists tons of the many obscure things mankind's incessant curiosity has let him to discover about nature, such that, if mankind had the means to gallivant across the stars, would he not make a study of other exo-civilizations? Conversely, would not they of us, for at least the same reason?

Perhaps Earth is an entry in some alien encyclopedia, somewhere, eh?

 

[OscarLevant]

Aliens might introduce themselves out of scientific curiosity to learn more about us or maybe be interested in trade. Conquest seems a little over blown as there is so much empty space out there which could be colonised and terra-formed in to habitable planets. The motives for contact and sustaining it so that we become aware of it are pretty limited.

Your entire position seems to rest on the veracity of this premise.

But, who's to say what motivates a race that might be a million years more advanced than humans, noting that they are not human, in the first place?

We evolved from primates, we inherited primates cultural aspects of societal hierarchy, territorial aspects, pecking orders, and so forth. Primates experience emotion, of course, more basic that humans, but humans just expanded on it.

Eight Striking Similarities between Humans and Chimpanzees | OpenMind


What if these aliens evolved from insects and expanded upon them, such as their 'hive mentality', one that has no ego like we do, no need for ego defense mechanisms, and all of it's many ramifications of 'distrust', etc., and all of the alien 'individuals' are no more individual than a bee or ant is in their respective colonies?

Maybe these insect aliens ( called 'mantids' google it) study the primate to human connection, and are amused by, even envious of, 'emotion' which we humans take for granted?

Who knows what truth lingers in the voids of space, it's rather silly to even speculate, don't you think?

 

[OscarLevant]

Yeah, Bob was outed by the prop guy who made him.

Are we talking abut the same 'bob', can you reference this?

 

[calamity]

Are we talking abut the same 'bob', can you reference this?

There's two bobs?

 

[OscarLevant]

And yet, the UFO folks after 50 years have JACK SQUAT.

But, lots of stories about how the "lid is about to be blown off"

Been hearing that since the 70's

you haven't looked since the 70s.

There are at least somewhere between 3,500 and 5,000 UFO physical trace cases.
PROJECT 1947 - Ted Phillips' Trace Catalogue - Paul Fuller

Radar sightings of UFO's are remarkably common, and also the most authentic. The word of expertly trained operators, backed up by tangible echo returns from unidentified intruders is hard to deny. In many cases these bizarre blips that suddenly invade military and civil radar screens are seen to execute manoeuvres completely beyond the abilities of any known aircraft. Ground speeds of up six thousand m.p.h are nothing unusual, and as if to add further credence to these incidents, many of these 'radar visuals' as they are called, have been simultaneously witnessed by naked eye observers, both on the ground and in the air!


There are tons of case like this one, radar and visual confirmations

Lakenheath 1956: A UK Radar-Visual UFO Classic - UFO Evidence


Black triangles sited all over the world, such as this one
YouTube


I'm just scratching the surface, it goes on and on an on an on, really,

If you are looking for aliens to come down and go on Jimmy Kimmel, ain't gonna happen.

 

[OscarLevant]

How will belief in alien visitations affect our future?

I can't give you what I know in a convincing manner in a few paragraphs.

Check out Dr. David Jacobs's "Walking Among Us".

A burning curiosity is required. Without it, you'll never make the journey, and it is a journey. You'll need it to get past the chaff, in order to find the wheat.

That book is all wheat, but it won't have any impact until you read the entire thing

And I suspect you won't want to do that.

 

[beefheart]

you haven't looked since the 70s.

There are at least somewhere between 3,500 and 5,000 UFO physical trace cases.
PROJECT 1947 - Ted Phillips' Trace Catalogue - Paul Fuller

Radar sightings of UFO's are remarkably common, and also the most authentic. The word of expertly trained operators, backed up by tangible echo returns from unidentified intruders is hard to deny. In many cases these bizarre blips that suddenly invade military and civil radar screens are seen to execute manoeuvres completely beyond the abilities of any known aircraft. Ground speeds of up six thousand m.p.h are nothing unusual, and as if to add further credence to these incidents, many of these 'radar visuals' as they are called, have been simultaneously witnessed by naked eye observers, both on the ground and in the air!


There are tons of case like this one, radar and visual confirmations

Lakenheath 1956: A UK Radar-Visual UFO Classic - UFO Evidence


Black triangles sited all over the world, such as this one
YouTube


I'm just scratching the surface, it goes on and on an on an on, really,

If you are looking for aliens to come down and go on Jimmy Kimmel, ain't gonna happen.

Nothing but the same old globs in the sky. More money making drivel from the UFO grifters.

 

[OscarLevant]

And you dont think other religions indoctrinate children? You dont think Atheists indoctrinate children?

But I applaud you for recognizing you are guided by your hatred. Its a great first step.

My parents were atheist and they never, not once, proselytized their beliefs, which is because they had none.

They gave me my love of jazz, and let me find my own way.

I was reading all sorts of books on religion, including gnostic gospels, Buddhism, Taoism, etc.

Your point of view strikes me as rather cynical that 'atheists' are no different than religious people.

 

[OscarLevant]

Nothing but the same old globs in the sky. More money making drivel from the UFO grifters.

Like I said, and you just proved it, you won't even look, and you never will, if you are not curious.


The story is a lot more than grainy photographs, which seems to me you've written it all off without even looking.


You have to look and be driven by curiosity to get a perspective. YOu want an alien to go on Jimmy Kimmel, or land on the white house lawn? Its never going to happen like that.

 

[OscarLevant]

There's two bobs?

Depends, show me yours and I'll show you mine and then we'll find out.

 

[beefheart]

Like I said, and you just proved it, you won't even look, and you never will, if you are not curious.


The story is a lot more than grainy photographs, which seems to me you've written it all off without even looking.


You have to look and be driven by curiosity to get a perspective. YOu want an alien to go on Jimmy Kimmel, or land on the white house lawn? Its never going to happen like that.

Again, millions of cameras all over the world for the last 20 years, and nothing but the same old crappy blobs.

Occam's razor

 

[OscarLevant]

Again, millions of cameras all over the world for the last 20 years, and nothing but the same old crappy blobs.

Occam's razor

You attitude tells me that you don't want there to be UFOs. You are the kind of person who looks out of the corner of your eye, and shrugs your shoulders, and you won't give the subject more than a cursory glance at which point you will go 'harumph! "

Let's get something straight, which PROVES you know crap about the subject.

The 'millions of cameras' are camera phones, are not designed for the kind of photography required to capture a UFO. This is why there are tons of photos of UFOs, but they are grainy.
Like this one:
View attachment 67283710

If someone were trying to fake such a shot, why grainy and at night? Why not hang a nice hubcap from a wire and take a clear shot?

For camera phones, that's as good as it gets for night time photography in the sky.


I worked as a professional photographer for a good 13 years.

The kind of camera and lens required to take a really good close up of distant UFO would require a $13k 600 or 800mm or a $12k 200-400mm telephoto lens, rig on a tripod, and be lucky enough to be at the right place and the right time to capture one. To be able to capture anything that might come up, you'll need two cameras on the ready, one where the sensor's filter was removed so that it's converted to infrared, and the other not modified. Now were talking two $16k rigs on tripods ( add $500 for each for a decent Manfrotto maybe a used one cheaper) Moreover, since most sightings are at night, the camera body would have to be able to shoot in the super high ISO range, and now we're adding the price of a flagship camera body, another $3.6k each to the the price tag.

one more detail, most sightings are in rural areas.

How many people in rural areas have a rig like that and are willing to sit around for 40 years to be lucky enough to find one in the sky? I've been looking my entire life and have never seen one, they are rare and I have a nice rig, but I don't have that lens.

There are tons of abduction stories, and they tell us that UFOs, when moving in close, disable all electronics ( they don't want to be photographed, otherwise recorded, and are operating clandestinely.) That would be the reason for no close ups photos, and most UFOs, can 'disappear' they have been so observed, apparently they have cloaking technology, and who woulda thunk, they, advanced beings one million years ahead of us, are not going to let us capture them like your limited imagination imagines we should.

Yeah, Occam is laughing in your face.

 

[dead0man]

There are definite photos galore of alien space craft. Just look for them.

Also, aliens are operating clandestinely, for most of the time, and they can render a craft invisible to radar and human detection at will.

In more than one nuke missile silo, when UFOs were observed by multiple enlisted and officer personel, dozens of nuke silos went offline Not that each silo is completely independent of the other. This is recorded fact, look it up.

also, if the gov is covering them up, and they are, the really good photos aren't being released.

wait, didn't you say something about this kind of thing in your OP?

One thing you must stop doing, as all doubters tend to do, is second guess how they operate and think, and don't use your assumptions to dispel a reason to believe if there is a logical basis to believe. I think I have presented a logical basis to believe, no?

just so we're clear, it's bad when "doubters" use assumptions to second guess, but it's fine for you to just proclaim any fanciful thing you want? And you think this is logically consistent?


It would be the coolest thing ever if aliens were visiting us, there just isn't any good evidence that it's happened no matter how much we might want it to be true.