Florida high court sides with governor on felon voter rights

[Chomsky]

Let me explain the reasons for this ruling. When a person goes on Probation, instead of going to prison, they are charged court fees and probation fees. We have many probationers that finish probation, but don't pay their court costs and fees. These are the people who will not be able to vote, until they pay off their debt to the state. These fees help lower YOUR TAXES. If someone is on probation, should they pay for that or should your tax dollars pay for it?

This is a fair point. But what if the individual cannot pay due to economic hardship, through no fault of their own? Do we keep them disenfranchised?

This is why when it comes to enumerated rights in these tough cases, I believe we need to err on the side of enfranchisement.

 

[Fletch]

If you conservatives REALLY cared about voter ID, you wouldn't care if the state paid for it. Alas, it isn't voting IDs you are concerned with but keeping the poor from the polls.

Theres no reason the states cant pay for it. Hell, there is no reason the political parties cant pay for it. We arent talking about that many people here.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

You may agree with disenfranchisement, but I don't. I would not abridge the right to vote for any citizen. I might have some qualms with those adjudged mentally incompetent, but even there I'm not sure. Sorry, but I believe prisoners have their rights.

14th Amendment, Section 1:

"Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

 

[Obscurity]

please look up poll tax.
then get back to me. i know leftist hate definitions and this is why.
it blows their stupid arguments out of the water.

This is not a poll tax.
if part of their sentencing they have to a 200 fine then that is part of their sentence.
to get their voting rights back they must complete their sentence.

that is not a poll tax. we do not have poll taxes in florida. they are unconstitutional.

Voter ID is a poll tax.

You will not change my mind.

Florida is a trump obsessed filthy **** hole and it should sink into the gurgling maw of the Atlantic.

 

[Praxas]

Theres no reason the states cant pay for it. Hell, there is no reason the political parties cant pay for it. We arent talking about that many people here.

Why should the Dems pay Republican voters? Sorry but it should come from the state and if they are federal requirements than the federal government should pay for it.

 

[Obscurity]

Life and liberty are also enumerated as rights but can be taken away by due process of law.

They can, yes. However, liberty and voting are endlessly assaulted by the republicans, who claim to want liberty. For some, I suppose.

 

[ludin]

If you conservatives REALLY cared about voter ID, you wouldn't care if the state paid for it. Alas, it isn't voting IDs you are concerned with but keeping the poor from the polls.

you can get a free voter id in every state for free.
it doesn't cost you anything to get a voter id card.

 

[Praxas]

Voter ID is a poll tax.

It wouldn't be if the federal or state paid for it.

You will not change my mind.

Well if they did pay for it, then by definition it wouldn't be a poll tax.

 

[Praxas]

you can get a free voter id in every state for free.
it doesn't cost you anything to get a voter id card.

Bull**** it doesn't. I have to pay a fee each time I get the card and it doesn't have my picture on it.

 

[Obscurity]

It wouldn't be if the federal or state paid for it.



Well if they did pay for it, then by definition it wouldn't be a poll tax.

No one is asking for this and there's no ****ing way the republicans will embrace this, so it's irrelevant.

 

[Khayembii Communique]

Let me explain the reasons for this ruling. When a person goes on Probation, instead of going to prison, they are charged court fees and probation fees. We have many probationers that finish probation, but don't pay their court costs and fees. These are the people who will not be able to vote, until they pay off their debt to the state. These fees help lower YOUR TAXES. If someone is on probation, should they pay for that or should your tax dollars pay for it?

Owing money to the state shouldn't have anything to do with your right to vote.

 

[ludin]

Voter ID is a poll tax.

You will not change my mind.

Florida is a trump obsessed filthy **** hole and it should sink into the gurgling maw of the Atlantic.

you can get a voter id card for free.
there is no tax.

i know i can't change your mind about wrong information.
that is why your arguments continue to look silly and no one takes your
posts seriously.

which tells me you know nothing of the state of FL.
FL has a very highly diverse political range.
again you prove you have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[Cardinal]

No it doesn't establish a poll tax.

As they are fined during their sentencing period.
in order to get their voting rights back they must complete their sentence.

part of their sentence are fines if any.

a poll tax is something completely different.
they are not paying to register to vote.

They are completing a mandated sentence by the state.

If they're not even serving terms then it's a poll tax, especially since it's arbitrarily applied. Nobody's forced to pay past parking tickets or back taxes in order to vote, but you have to pay back "felon fines?"

This fails Constitutional muster on at least three levels:

1. It fails according to the 24th Amendement (Poll tax). Simply wrapping tax in another term doesn't change what it is.
2. It fails according to the 14th Amendment ( Equal Protection Clause).
2. It fails according to every Amendment that makes reference to voting as a right.

The Florida law is just a giant bucket of Constitutional fail.

And don't assume that this is partisan convenience on my part. While I personally hoped that states would pass a law requiring that Presidential candidates share their tax returns in order to appear on their ballots, I also knew that such laws were on extremely shaky Constitutional ground, and was therefore completely unsurprised when they were shot down.

 

[Praxas]

No one is asking for this and there's no ****ing way the republicans will embrace this, so it's irrelevant.

Well you can't say NO ONE is asking for this because there are people asking for it. However, I agree it's a non-starter for me unless the state or federal pay for it.

 

[Fletch]

Why should the Dems pay Republican voters? Sorry but it should come from the state and if they are federal requirements than the federal government should pay for it.

Sorry, I thought you cared about disenfranchisement of American voters. Seems you only care about those who vote for your tribe. My bad.

 

[ludin]

Owing money to the state shouldn't have anything to do with your right to vote.

in 9/10 cases it doesn't.

however this is part of their sentencing from a trial.
the law states that they must complete their sentencing. that would include any costs or fines imposed by the judge.

if you are not registered to vote and owe the city 1000 dollars in parking fines or tickets you can still register to vote.

in this case someone is a felon that is trying to get their right back. the law says they must complete their sentencing.
if there were any fines or such attached then that is part of their sentence.

 

[Obscurity]

you can get a voter id card for free.
there is no tax.

i know i can't change your mind about wrong information.
that is why your arguments continue to look silly and no one takes your
posts seriously.

which tells me you know nothing of the state of FL.
FL has a very highly diverse political range.
again you prove you have no clue what you are talking about.

It's a poll tax. Someone is paying for it.

And yes, I have been to Florida. It's a geriatric infested dumpster that is sold on the Trump train. I have no interest in it as a state.

 

[Cardinal]

There might be. The loophole, which I don't agree with, is called "felony disenfranchisement". And, it has generally been found constitutional. I believe it flies directly against universal suffrage, but the Court has often found otherwise.

Yes, and I see no reason why that's not unconstitutional either. The reason why felony disenfranchisement has been allowed to persist is simply because we see felons as unpleasant and it's easy to justify taking away their rights. But the fact that they're unpleasant is not a reason for infringing on their Constitutional rights.

 

[Praxas]

Sorry, I thought you cared about disenfranchisement of American voters. Seems you only care about those who vote for your tribe. My bad.

Your reading comprehension skills are lacking. I said the STATE or FEDERAL should pay for it. Again, if lying is all you can do, you are only proving me correct.

 

[Chomsky]

See, this is why I consider you the last rational liberal on this site! The left doesnt believe in inherent rights, so you may want to keep that sort of heresy to yourself. Id hate to see you get cancelled lol

Well thanks again, Fletch. I always appreciate your sensible civility.

But I think you're wrongly stereotyping the Left, as can be seen by many of the liberal posters in this very thread that are in support of the inherent right to vote. But I will admit, that might change for some with a different right like the 2nd. Despite bringing it up, I definitely do not want to get into a specific 2nd Amendment debate - though there are general analogies here I believe.

 

[Chomsky]

Owing money to the state shouldn't have anything to do with your right to vote.

Yeah, that's the issue I have - it's money. Regardless of it being a court ordered payment, if you have no money you can't vote. That leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

 

[Cardinal]

Yeah, that's the issue I have - it's money. Regardless of it being a court ordered payment, if you have no money you can't vote. That leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

As well it ****ing should, since a poll tax was specifically created to prevent "undesirables" *cough*blackpeople*cough* from voting.

 

[Fletch]

Voter ID is a poll tax.

You will not change my mind.

Florida is a trump obsessed filthy **** hole and it should sink into the gurgling maw of the Atlantic.

And people say the left isnt full of hate and rage :lamo

 

[Fletch]

Your reading comprehension skills are lacking. I said the STATE or FEDERAL should pay for it. Again, if lying is all you can do, you are only proving me correct.

Sorry, where was the lie?

 

[ludin]

If they're not even serving terms, then that's a poll tax, especially since it's arbitrarily applied. Nobody's forced to pay past parking tickets or back taxes in order to vote, but you have to pay back "felon fines?"

In most states if you are a felon or convicted of a felony you lose the right to vote.
most people serving felonies are serving terms. It isn't arbitarrily applied.
florida does not have poll taxes they are unconstitutional.

these are fines in accordance with a judicial sentence. The law states that to get your rights back you must complete your sentence.
that would include any and all fines that were addressed.

The Florida law is just a giant bucket of Constitutional fail.

And don't assume that this is partisan convenience on my part. While I personally hoped that states would pass a law requiring that Presidential candidates share their tax returns in order to appear on their ballots, I also knew that such laws were on extremely shaky Constitutional ground, and was therefore completely unsurprised when they were shot down.

yes it is another partisan convenience because that is pretty much all your arguments are.

They tried that it got shot down in courts. states do not have the power to add requirements to federal offices.
which has nothing to do with this.

amendment 4 language:
No. 4 Constitutional Amendment Article VI, Section 4. Voting Restoration Amendment This amendment restores the voting rights of Floridians with felony convictions after they complete all terms of their sentence including parole or probation. The amendment would not apply to those convicted of murder or sexual offenses, who would continue to be permanently barred from voting unless the Governor and Cabinet vote to restore their voting rights on a case by case basis.

It is very clear by the language of the bill that it is all terms of their sentence including parole or probation.
If fines were part of that sentencing then it would include those.