Fentanyl deaths from 'Mexican oxy' pills hit Arizona hard

[zimmer]

Probably the stupidest post that you have made.

Elaborate.

My bet is you can’t.

Why?

Because you’ll make an utter fool of yourself.

But, I really encourage you to give it a try. Point by point.

Maybe you’ll learn something.

If you don’t elaborate, we’ll just chalk it up to your inability to do so.

Cheers.

PS. Haven’t seen you around lately. Nice of you to post, for the obvious reasons. Your advocacy of Leftist policies almost always serves as a great example of why the Left is an utter failure.

 

[zimmer]

Try making sense, about the topic. This thread is supposedly about stopping illegal drugs and you've taken it on a magical mystery tour of the radical right's fantasies of evil leftist plotting to destroy America by eating all the children or some such.

The article is about drugs killing Americans by the tens of thousands.

The thread is about that... and the addition collateral damage caused by the insane policies of Leftists.

Can you walk and chew gum at the same time?

And why are you so concerned about the discussion? Is it because it paints an accurate picture of the insane policies of the Left?

Yes indeed.

 

[trixare4kids]

Do you have 12 to 30 million illegals?

If you did, you’d almost double your population.

You folks began bitching with the invaders since Trump has arrived.

Try being intellectually honest.

Why would our neighbors to the north object to cutting off the flow of drugs and illegal immigrants?

 

[zimmer]

Why would our neighbors to the north object to cutting off the flow of drugs and illegal immigrants?

I thought they were compassionate.

They were... until reality smacked them in the teeth. Then their arrogance wore off quick.

 

[Grand Mal]

The article is about drugs killing Americans by the tens of thousands.

The thread is about that... and the addition collateral damage caused by the insane policies of Leftists.

Can you walk and chew gum at the same time?

And why are you so concerned about the discussion? Is it because it paints an accurate picture of the insane policies of the Left?

Yes indeed.

I wonder... D'ya think any of that wall money will come from the border security budget? As in, spending billions to stop backpacksful of Fentanyl and taking budget away from stopping truckloads?
And you're right- my 'concern' is pretty shallow. I don't care much, I just like to heap scorn and abuse on the newest nightmare fantasies of the radical right whinge. This one is turning out even better than that 'breakdown of society from allowing gay marrage' nightmare was. Bottom line- its your money. If what you want is to watch it be poured into a hole in the desert, enjoy.
But I'll still scorn the fantasy.

 

[SLC]

Sorry, but this this wrong. Unlike apparently most of Trump's base, the rest of the world has heard of "ladders".

Its kind of hard for a couple hundred people to climb over a ladder at the same moment. A couple hundred people running across a fenceless border isn't that hard.

YouTube

 

[ElChupacabra]

Giving them the tools they want to help them do their jobs would be a great first start . They want a wall/Fence/barrier to help them do their jobs. And changing our laws so the people they catch crossing illegally actually do get sent back home. Would help also.

The problem is an unmonitored wall isn't going to deter the criminal element. The inability of the BP to recruit/retain talent makes the prospect of hiring the personnel to make a wall effective pretty low. The changes to immigration laws is another factor that has to be tackled, but that's not at the forefront since Trump is focusing on the wall as the key deterrent. His focus is border crossings but when a large percentage of illegal migrants are here from overstaying visas and not coming over the border, it makes the wall argument tougher to sell.

El Chapo's testimony confirms what we've learned about drug trafficking: shipping large amounts of product through legal means (hiding them in legal products etc.) is the most effective way to move product en masse. There certainly are people smuggling drugs individually, but that's not as reliable or efficient to move large amounts.

 

[Dutch]

And how exactly would you stop this? It came across at a border checkpoint like most drugs, both times. Do you think they were trying to cross the border illegally with a cucumber truck?

Often enough they’re just trying to hoof it to that cucumber truck across the border.

 

[Dutch]

The problem is an unmonitored wall isn't going to deter the criminal element. The inability of the BP to recruit/retain talent makes the prospect of hiring the personnel to make a wall effective pretty low. The changes to immigration laws is another factor that has to be tackled, but that's not at the forefront since Trump is focusing on the wall as the key deterrent. His focus is border crossings but when a large percentage of illegal migrants are here from overstaying visas and not coming over the border, it makes the wall argument tougher to sell.

El Chapo's testimony confirms what we've learned about drug trafficking: shipping large amounts of product through legal means (hiding them in legal products etc.) is the most effective way to move product en masse. There certainly are people smuggling drugs individually, but that's not as reliable or efficient to move large amounts.

You solve one problem, then move onto the other. This source indicates 50,000 a month.

Southwest Border Migration FY 2019 | U.S. Customs and Border Protection

 

[SLC]

I wonder... D'ya think any of that wall money will come from the border security budget? As in, spending billions to stop backpacksful of Fentanyl and taking budget away from stopping truckloads?
And you're right- my 'concern' is pretty shallow. I don't care much, I just like to heap scorn and abuse on the newest nightmare fantasies of the radical right whinge. This one is turning out even better than that 'breakdown of society from allowing gay marrage' nightmare was. Bottom line- its your money. If what you want is to watch it be poured into a hole in the desert, enjoy.
But I'll still scorn the fantasy.

An 80 lb back pack full of Fentanyl can kill 10's of MILLIONS of Americans it should be stopped ALSO. Trump offered a compromise that had money for new drug identification technology and for drug dogs and for 2600 more BP agents. The Dems rejected it. Trump believes the POEs and the border between the POEs need to be reinforced. So its disingenuous of you to point to the drugs seized at the POEs as the only danger it clearly is not. And it is disingenuous of you to suggest that Trump is not interested in stopping drugs at the POEs ALSO. It's also less than intellectually honest of you to suggest drugs being brought in by back pack aren't a problem. I say former CBP Director Mark Morgan last night on TV and he said we don't know what is successfully getting across the border but were know its a significant amount.

Yours and the Dems hate for Trump is helping cost the lives of Americans who are dying because our borders are not secure.

 

[SLC]

The problem is an unmonitored wall isn't going to deter the criminal element. The inability of the BP to recruit/retain talent makes the prospect of hiring the personnel to make a wall effective pretty low. The changes to immigration laws is another factor that has to be tackled, but that's not at the forefront since Trump is focusing on the wall as the key deterrent. His focus is border crossings but when a large percentage of illegal migrants are here from overstaying visas and not coming over the border, it makes the wall argument tougher to sell.

That's not true the plans for the wall include camera sensors and drone monitoring. You have heard him use the term smart wall have you not?

El Chapo's testimony confirms what we've learned about drug trafficking: shipping large amounts of product through legal means (hiding them in legal products etc.) is the most effective way to move product en masse. There certainly are people smuggling drugs individually, but that's not as reliable or efficient to move large amounts.

And as we clamp down on the POEs, as Trump wants to do, where do you think smugglers will start increasing smuggling to? Logic would say the weakest link. Remember Trump's compromise plan? He had more money for drug interdiction at the POE's. The Dems rejected it. Meanwhile Americans are dying in increasing numbers. In Arizona the deaths from Fentanyl tripled in the last year. If it was your family dying from drugs from Mexico you would not be so cavalier. Remember one 80 lb backpack of Fentanyl is potent enough to kill 20 million Americans.

 

[Grand Mal]

An 80 lb back pack full of Fentanyl can kill 10's of MILLIONS of Americans it should be stopped ALSO. Trump offered a compromise that had money for new drug identification technology and for drug dogs and for 2600 more BP agents. The Dems rejected it. Trump believes the POEs and the border between the POEs need to be reinforced. So its disingenuous of you to point to the drugs seized at the POEs as the only danger it clearly is not. And it is disingenuous of you to suggest that Trump is not interested in stopping drugs at the POEs ALSO. It's also less than intellectually honest of you to suggest drugs being brought in by back pack aren't a problem. I say former CBP Director Mark Morgan last night on TV and he said we don't know what is successfully getting across the border but were know its a significant amount.

Yours and the Dems hate for Trump is helping cost the lives of Americans who are dying because our borders are not secure.

First, my opinion of Trump doesn't make a lick of difference in the USA so lay off the bs hyperbole.
Second, Fentanyl is a huge problem here in Canada and I'm willing to bet that not tablespoonful comes here from Mexico. It mostly comes from China. And the US.
And if you think that shutting down all the Fentanyl that gets carried across the border, between posts of entry, will make a damn bit of difference you're pretty naive. You don't know how the drug trade works. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all if twice as much fentanyl crossed your northern border as the southern one. I'd not be surprised if twice as much came into LA harbour as crossed the whole length of the Mexican border.

 

[ClaraD]

How many American citizens were killed by illegals last year?

how many American citizens were killed by anyone last year???? your point is going no where.. Opioids come from CHINA, not Mexico....they fly in, come in by boat, and there are plenty of agents, but they still don't find them all...I can see someone pulling you aside and holding you for 4 hours while they tear apart your vehicle looking for drugs...because they need to search every car....

 

[ClaraD]

Often enough they’re just trying to hoof it to that cucumber truck across the border.

those look like packs of MJ... make it be legal...

 

[AlphaOmega]

how many American citizens were killed by anyone last year???? your point is going no where.. Opioids come from CHINA, not Mexico....they fly in, come in by boat, and there are plenty of agents, but they still don't find them all...I can see someone pulling you aside and holding you for 4 hours while they tear apart your vehicle looking for drugs...because they need to search every car....

Need help moving the goal posts? I asked you how many American citizens were killed by illegals last year. You lost the argument on the first question. Hilarious.

 

[Dutch]

those look like packs of MJ... make it be legal...

It probably is mj but the citizens of Arizona haven’t chosen to make that legal yet.

 

[SLC]

how many American citizens were killed by anyone last year???? your point is going no where..

That is a specious argument. If we can reduce the overall crime rate by 3-4% by sending illegals home we should do it. A lot of states don't keep crime data on illegals because they don't want to know. But Texas does here is the DPS data.

Between June 1, 2011 and January 31, 2019, these 189,000 illegal aliens were charged with more than 295,000 criminal offenses which included arrests for 539 homicide charges; 32,785 assault charges; 5,737 burglary charges; 37,234 drug charges; 403 kidnapping charges; 15,991 theft charges; 23,701 obstructing police charges; 1,660 robbery charges; 3,473 sexual assault charges; 2,170 sexual offense charges; and 2,976 weapon charges. DPS criminal history records reflect those criminal charges have thus far resulted in over 120,000 convictions including 238 homicide convictions; 13,662 assault convictions; 3,158 burglary convictions; 17,930 drug convictions; 175 kidnapping convictions; 7,100 theft convictions; 11,336 obstructing police convictions; 1,013 robbery convictions; 1,710 sexual assault convictions; 1,153 sexual offense convictions; and 1,282 weapon convictions.

These people are not part of the first group.

Between June 1, 2011 and January 31, 2019, these 10,306 individual identified as illegal aliens while in prison, but who were not previously identified through PEP, were charged with more than 6,000 criminal offenses which included arrests for 85 homicide charges; 792 assault charges; 485 burglary charges; 1,293 drug charges; 24 kidnapping charges; 316 theft charges; 644 obstructing police charges; 265 robbery charges; 532 sexual assault charges; 222 sexual offense charges; and 159 weapon charges. DPS criminal history records reflect those criminal charges have thus far resulted in over 3,000 convictions including 63 homicide convictions; 480 assault convictions; 332 burglary convictions; 754 drug convictions; 11 kidnapping convictions; 188 theft convictions; 290 obstructing police convictions; 204 robbery convictions; 375 sexual assault convictions; 162 sexual offense convictions; and 72 weapon convictions.

Opioids come from CHINA, not Mexico....they fly in, come in by boat, and there are plenty of agents, but they still don't find them all...I can see someone pulling you aside and holding you for 4 hours while they tear apart your vehicle looking for drugs...because they need to search every car....

Not all opioids, drug sniffing dogs do a great job detecting drugs hidden in cars. The dems rejected Trumps compromise which had money for 2600 more agents and more drug dogs and drug detection equipment.

Black Tar heroin is coming from Mexico and remember the 254 lbs of Fentanyl seize at the Mexico Us / Arizona border a couple of weeks ago? That was enough to kill 67 million Americans. If it was your child that died on opioids from Mexico you attitude probably would not be so cavalier.

 

[ecofarm]

That is a specious argument. If we can reduce the overall crime rate by 3-4% by sending illegals home we should do it.

False premise. Immigrants, documented or not, commit crime at a lower rate than residents and citizens. We can only raise the rate via deportation.

 

[SLC]

False premise. Immigrants, documented or not, commit crime at a lower rate than residents and citizens. We can only raise the rate via deportation.

Actually deportation would in fact lower the rate YET we have sanctuary cities and states to try to stop the deportation of CRIMINALS. Now just who is more likely to commit crime in the future a CRIMINAL or a non criminal. So Yes we do need to deport criminals.

 

[ecofarm]

Actually deportation would in fact lower the rate

False. You can't invent stats.

 

[SLC]

First, my opinion of Trump doesn't make a lick of difference in the USA so lay off the bs hyperbole.
Second, Fentanyl is a huge problem here in Canada and I'm willing to bet that not tablespoonful comes here from Mexico. It mostly comes from China. And the US.
And if you think that shutting down all the Fentanyl that gets carried across the border, between posts of entry, will make a damn bit of difference you're pretty naive. You don't know how the drug trade works. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all if twice as much fentanyl crossed your northern border as the southern one. I'd not be surprised if twice as much came into LA harbour as crossed the whole length of the Mexican border.

I honestly do not care about your opinion of Trump. And your opinion about how the US handles our southern border is also unimportant. Now if you want to comment about our northern border you have standing. The fact of the mater is Trump tried to get money for securing the POE's but the Dems rejected it. The thing is the Dems really don't want drugs but they do want illegals because illegal have kids and those kids grow up to be democrats more frequently than not. The thing is its hard to get one without the other. If you can smuggle people you also can smuggle drugs. The Dems are playing the long game and they have their eyes on Texas if they can flip the state to a blue state its game over for the Republicans. If you could see the changes in the Demographics of Texas in the last 60 years you would see what I am talking about.

 

[ElChupacabra]

That's not true the plans for the wall include camera sensors and drone monitoring. You have heard him use the term smart wall have you not?

I have, but the monitoring without the people to respond to breaches isn't going to help make it a deterrent. As I stated before, hiring more people is great and I'm in favor of that, but the retention and recruitment at BP has been pretty low and that's a problem if you're looking to scale up.

And as we clamp down on the POEs, as Trump wants to do, where do you think smugglers will start increasing smuggling to? Logic would say the weakest link. Remember Trump's compromise plan? He had more money for drug interdiction at the POE's. The Dems rejected it. Meanwhile Americans are dying in increasing numbers. In Arizona the deaths from Fentanyl tripled in the last year. If it was your family dying from drugs from Mexico you would not be so cavalier. Remember one 80 lb backpack of Fentanyl is potent enough to kill 20 million Americans.

I grew up in the middle of a crack epidemic and lived through all of the violence directly, so none of this is lost on me. However erecting a wall without the means to effectively police it doesn't make sense. It reminds me of the graffiti days in NYC; people stayed away from the train yards that has police and guard dogs more than any others. All of the train yards had barbed wire and fences, but if they weren't policed people had the time to get over them.

 

[SLC]

It lowers the number of crimes. The crime rate (number of crimes per X number of population) may even increase as in the case when the crime rate of illegals is lower than the crime rate of citizens

An example with simple numbers to make myself clear...

First case (no illegals with the society)

Population= 10 citizens and 0 illegals
Number of crimes by citizens is 2. Therefore crime rate of citizens is 0.2 (2 crime per 10 citizens)
Since illegals are 0 in the above scenario the crime rate of the total population is equal to the crime rate of citizens ( 0.2)


Second case (illegals within the society)

Population= 10 citizens + 10 illegals (20 overall)
Number of crimes by citizens (again) 2. Thus crime rate of citizens is 0.2 (2 crimes per 10 citizens)
Number of crimes by illegals is 1 . Thus, Crime rate of illegals is 0.1 ( 1 crime per 10 illegals)
Total number of crimes within this population is 3
Total population is 20
Thus crime rate of total population is 3/20=0.15 which is less than the crime rate of the previous example (0.2)

In Texas there seems to be a problem with illegal aliens and drunk driving. My son is a paramedic and he picks up the pieces after the highway carnage. Yes Americans drink and drive also but if illegals were not here we would have no death caused from illegals drinking and driving. There have been several fatality wrecks involving illegals.


Yes but the Total numbers of crimes and total number of crime victims would down if we had no illegal alien crime.. And if your family was one that didn't have to suffer a crime I'm sure you would be happier than if they had suffered a crime.

 

[SLC]

I have, but the monitoring without the people to respond to breaches isn't going to help make it a deterrent. As I stated before, hiring more people is great and I'm in favor of that, but the retention and recruitment at BP has been pretty low and that's a problem if you're looking to scale up.

The BP is paid less than ICE and they lose personnel to ICE and parity between the two agencies would help. Congress could fix that.

I grew up in the middle of a crack epidemic and lived through all of the violence directly, so none of this is lost on me. However erecting a wall without the means to effectively police it doesn't make sense. It reminds me of the graffiti days in NYC; people stayed away from the train yards that has police and guard dogs more than any others. All of the train yards had barbed wire and fences, but if they weren't policed people had the time to get over them.

We police the border without a fence now and fences WORK where we have them. BP wants more fence and we should give them want they need and want. A fence is a force multiplier.

 

[Top Cat]

Zimmer thread.:failpail: