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Every Leftist Voted Against Pro-Growth Middle Class Tax Cut [W:139]

Santa Trump did not write the bill but feel free to tweet him with your question.

Good point. He didn't write the bill. Actually, Paul Ryan has been working on this for decades as his primary cause. Surprising that Santa Trump is taking credit for everyone else's work.
 
Good point. He didn't write the bill. Actually, Paul Ryan has been working on this for decades as his primary cause. Surprising that Santa Trump is taking credit for everyone else's work.

Santa Trump did not get his removal of the moronic "carried interest" perk that makes fund "manager" commissions/fees from the financial investments of others taxed at a lower rate than the same type of income from commission/fees for selling cars, real estate, soap powder or insurance.
 
Santa Trump did not get his removal of the moronic "carried interest" perk that makes fund "manager" commissions/fees from financial investments of others taxed at a lower rate than the same type of income from commission/fees for selling cars, real estate, soap powder or insurance.

Does anyone still buy soap powder?
 
You're the one functioning under some delusion about "the poor demanding free stuff".
What they need is decent jobs, a decent education and reliable health care.

I see all kinds of stuff on TV, but it's television, so I consider the source.
Just like you might want to consider the source that seems to be filling your head with notions about the poor wanting "free money".
They want the same opportunities any reasonable person in a large and diverse industrial democracy wants.
Republican policies are destroying those opportunities, and outright eliminating things like higher education and health care.
And now they're coming after grandma and grandpa's Social Security and Medicare.

But I suppose you probably consider those to be "entitlements" or "free stuff", too.

Please show where I said "the poor demanded free stuff".
 
It's called Craigslist.
I just sold a gently used Galaxy S4 for $40.00, too bad you missed it!

How on Earth can the poor even use Craiglist? Don't you remember, they are too poor to have the internet and too poor to even have a computer to get on Craigslist. Or, are you admitting that their standard of living has gotten better and better?
 
So you don't understand the concept of Fiscal Years either.

Fiscal years? What in the hell does that have to do with anything? That just shows your complete and total ignorance. What difference does it make that the government's year is three months off from the calendar year? Is that really your argument? Not even your fellow lefties would buy that.
 
Demand needs diversity?

What kind of mumbo jumbo is that?

Diversity? Really?

You know very little it seems to me. Never heard of diversity relating to demand. Some imaginary left wing economics here. :roll:

Let me know when your able to be rational and actually debate. Right now it would seem your off your rocker. :2wave:

I'll bet you are hung up on the word diverse due to relating it to race or something. Even though I explained it in a detailed example. Diverse spending (demand) as in opposition to centralized spending creates more demand. But by your words in that last post you were looking for an exit from the conversation so... have fun running away. You were clearly outmatched anyhow.
 
Santa Trump did not get his removal of the moronic "carried interest" perk that makes fund "manager" commissions/fees from the financial investments of others taxed at a lower rate than the same type of income from commission/fees for selling cars, real estate, soap powder or insurance.

I did see it reported that no less than 21 times that Trump and his surrogates attempted to get those on the Hill to close that loophole and the reason the Republican Congress critters wouldn't touch it is because it was a major source for funds to their re-election coffers. That wasn't the only thing Trump didn't get that he wanted like the percentage of 15% corporate tax rate. You don't always get what you want but there are a lot of good things in the bill.

"Santa Trump" as you put it, did nothing but praise the efforts of the Republicans for being able to pass the bill and spent a good amount of time recognizing how long many of them had been working on tax reform for years in hopes of one day passing it.

 
How on Earth can the poor even use Craiglist? Don't you remember, they are too poor to have the internet and too poor to even have a computer to get on Craigslist. Or, are you admitting that their standard of living has gotten better and better?

Could you be a little more faux condescending? Maybe you didn't realize that public libraries generally have computers and internet connections available for use.
 
How on Earth can the poor even use Craiglist? Don't you remember, they are too poor to have the internet and too poor to even have a computer to get on Craigslist. Or, are you admitting that their standard of living has gotten better and better?

Technological milieu.

You can find a working computer in an alley. See them all the time. Had one once.

I saw y'all bitching about color TVs when working black and white TVs had become actual antiques that would cost more than a color TV in a thrift store.

I'm quite sure there was a time when people were claiming people were doing great because they had wood floors and glass windows.

Its nonsense.

Plain and simple.
 
I did see it reported that no less than 21 times that Trump and his surrogates attempted to get those on the Hill to close that loophole and the reason the Republican Congress critters wouldn't touch it is because it was a major source for funds to their re-election coffers. That wasn't the only thing Trump didn't get that he wanted like the percentage of 15% corporate tax rate. You don't always get what you want but there are a lot of good things in the bill.

"Santa Trump" as you put it, did nothing but praise the efforts of the Republicans for being able to pass the bill and spent a good amount of time recognizing how long many of them had been working on tax reform for years in hopes of one day passing it.



Most of this, except for the bracket rate changes and increasing the (not really) "standard" deduction, was adding even more complexity to the already monstrous tax code. This was tax tinkering but not tax reform.
 
Could you be a little more faux condescending? Maybe you didn't realize that public libraries generally have computers and internet connections available for use.

I was more or less joking. But, the left can't deny that the poor's standard of living rises exponentially. What difference does it make how they got their big screen tvs and smartphones?
 
Technological milieu.

You can find a working computer in an alley. See them all the time. Had one once.

I saw y'all bitching about color TVs when working black and white TVs had become actual antiques that would cost more than a color TV in a thrift store.

I'm quite sure there was a time when people were claiming people were doing great because they had wood floors and glass windows.

Its nonsense.

Plain and simple.

Bottom line, the poor's standard of living has risen exponentially.
 
I don't know where you're coming up with your numbers but lets assume they're correct and not coming from a magic 8 ball.
They're real. E.g.:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...americans-aren-t-putting-money-in-their-401-k


Cities, municipalities and states all pay for various pensions for public employees. These are liabilities. Cities and states go bankrupt when they can't pay for pensions. Google it. Pension funding is based on market returns. Ask not for whom the bell tolls for stock buybacks. They're good because the company that buys back has confidence in their business.
Pensions?!? What year do you think this is, 1950? lol

Companies switched to 401k's decades ago. Only 10% or so of Americans still have pensions (see Bloomberg link above). Those figures are included in the numbers I cited previously.

The reality is that a shrinking minority of Americans directly benefit from the stock market. Stock buybacks benefit the corporations and the wealthy far, far more than they do the average worker.
 
Bottom line, the poor's standard of living has risen exponentially.

The SPECIES' standard of living has increased exponentially.

Even the poorest in the poorest places have access to common technologies that would have been indistinguishable from magic a couple hundred years ago.

Does NOT mean that their situation is much different.

Food and water are still issues even here.

What used to be commonplace is now further and further away.

And now the poorest are fighting with those more capable who have been displaced downward.

And most have little hope of leaving their children with a better life than they had. Less home ownership as the market shifts to the more profitable rental market. Far more expensive education in a world requiring ever more to become valuable to the ownership class. Ridiculous healthcare costs.

This whole argument is akin to the "slaves were well cared for" arguments to soften the moral negativity of slavery.

They were still slaves.

And the poor are still poor.

Even though they have wood floors and glass windows and indoor plumbing.
 
To put the bolded sentence another way, the people paying the most taxes will see a break but the people that pay nothing will not.

Is there something wrong with that in your eyes?

If somebody pays nothing into the system, how can they pay less?



"Those with the least" include the middle class as over the past 40 years they've been cutting a smaller and smaller portion of the pie as corps those with the most get bigger and bigger slices. It's a giveaway. Those with the most did nothing to earn a break. Nothing.
 
I was more or less joking. But, the left can't deny that the poor's standard of living rises exponentially. What difference does it make how they got their big screen tvs and smartphones?
Exponentially? I do not think that word means what you think it means.

First, we have to define whom we are discussing, when we talk about the poor in the US. Homeless people, for example, are just as bad off as they have ever been.


If we go up a notch, then we're basically dealing with people who are literally 1 or 2 paychecks away from homelessness. These individuals have cell phones, sure, because you basically can't get a job these days without one. They get cheap phones with prepaid plans. They don't have SUVs and big screen TVs and closets full of clothes. They work for a living, whenever possible, in part because getting anything more than food stamps is difficult, time-consuming, resource-consuming, and results in little benefit.

This is not a group whose standard of living has grown over the years. In fact, they do worse, because it's much more difficult to get government assistance when they need it. Most of these individuals are unskilled, which means their wages have been flat for decades, and lower than what unskilled (e.g. factory) work in the 1960s and earlier.

I suggest you read $2.00 a Day: Living on Almost Nothing in America to get a glimpse of that kind of life.


Let's go up another notch. Now we're looking at people who can afford a home (probably rented), can afford food, are employed (or on a fixed income), have access to a car or public transportation, and can go for maybe 2-4 months of unemployment before running into serious trouble. As noted above, much of what is used to tag them as affluent is dirt cheap these days. TVs, radios, cell phones are all cheap one-time costs. (A brand-new 30" Samsung TV at Walmart costs $160, by the way.)

Has their quality of living expanded exponentially? I don't see it. As above, unskilled work pays less, and employment overall is less secure. Education is increasingly necessary and expensive. Lower-income families have had televisions and landlines and cars for decades now. Cheap entertainment has been around for decades; a movie ticket in the 30s cost $0.35 or so, which is equivalent to $6 today. Other costs, such as medicine, child care, elderly care, and education have shot through the roof.

All these changes are happening while women have increasingly entered the workforce. In the 50s and 60s, one income was sufficient to keep a family's finances stable; today, that often requires two incomes.

There are other complex shifts here as well. In the past, credit was rarely used, and families tended to save money. Today, that two-earner medium-income family can only stay afloat because they have access to credit. Today, 60% of Americans don't even have $1000 on hand for emergencies.

So, I'm pretty confident that most of the poor are not doing substantially better today than in recent decades. It seems like the "exponential" leap was around 1945-1960, when there was an explosion in the availability of consumer goods, as well as some more gradual changes from roughly 1870 - 1920 due to increased industrialization and regulation in the US.
 
Exponentially? I do not think that word means what you think it means.

First, we have to define whom we are discussing, when we talk about the poor in the US. Homeless people, for example, are just as bad off as they have ever been.


If we go up a notch, then we're basically dealing with people who are literally 1 or 2 paychecks away from homelessness. These individuals have cell phones, sure, because you basically can't get a job these days without one. They get cheap phones with prepaid plans. They don't have SUVs and big screen TVs and closets full of clothes. They work for a living, whenever possible, in part because getting anything more than food stamps is difficult, time-consuming, resource-consuming, and results in little benefit.

This is not a group whose standard of living has grown over the years. In fact, they do worse, because it's much more difficult to get government assistance when they need it. Most of these individuals are unskilled, which means their wages have been flat for decades, and lower than what unskilled (e.g. factory) work in the 1960s and earlier.

I suggest you read $2.00 a Day: Living on Almost Nothing in America to get a glimpse of that kind of life.


Let's go up another notch. Now we're looking at people who can afford a home (probably rented), can afford food, are employed (or on a fixed income), have access to a car or public transportation, and can go for maybe 2-4 months of unemployment before running into serious trouble. As noted above, much of what is used to tag them as affluent is dirt cheap these days. TVs, radios, cell phones are all cheap one-time costs. (A brand-new 30" Samsung TV at Walmart costs $160, by the way.)

Has their quality of living expanded exponentially? I don't see it. As above, unskilled work pays less, and employment overall is less secure. Education is increasingly necessary and expensive. Lower-income families have had televisions and landlines and cars for decades now. Cheap entertainment has been around for decades; a movie ticket in the 30s cost $0.35 or so, which is equivalent to $6 today. Other costs, such as medicine, child care, elderly care, and education have shot through the roof.

All these changes are happening while women have increasingly entered the workforce. In the 50s and 60s, one income was sufficient to keep a family's finances stable; today, that often requires two incomes.

There are other complex shifts here as well. In the past, credit was rarely used, and families tended to save money. Today, that two-earner medium-income family can only stay afloat because they have access to credit. Today, 60% of Americans don't even have $1000 on hand for emergencies.

So, I'm pretty confident that most of the poor are not doing substantially better today than in recent decades. It seems like the "exponential" leap was around 1945-1960, when there was an explosion in the availability of consumer goods, as well as some more gradual changes from roughly 1870 - 1920 due to increased industrialization and regulation in the US.

The discussion actually started out as working and middle class people. Not really who the poor are.
 
How on Earth can the poor even use Craiglist? Don't you remember, they are too poor to have the internet and too poor to even have a computer to get on Craigslist. Or, are you admitting that their standard of living has gotten better and better?

The more snide and sneering you get, the more I enjoy pointing out what an out of touch elitist you are.
Being able to pick up a twenty dollar used smartphone and use free WiFi at a McDonald's or similar venue to access Craigslist does not signify a "higher standard of living".
The 1970's equivalent would be finding two quarters on the ground and being able to snatch a copy of today's paper.
Hooo boy, wow...

This is getting tiresome and boring, because your points are weak, your logic fails and you consistently demonstrate that you live a life in which you are insulated
from the realities that the average working person is only one paycheck away from.
Lucky for you...maybe you earned it, in which case no one should sneer back, because you deserve that security.
Maybe you inherited it, again lucky for you.
Maybe you just live with Mom and Dad and don't have to pay for anything.
I really don't care, why should I, what would the payoff be, for me?

But you should know that the more you argue this case, the more you look like someone who doesn't ever have to worry about what stuff costs.
So why should anyone take your side as being well informed as to poverty and society's responsibility?
Sneering at society's most vulnerable shows a pretty **** set of values, so no matter how well off you may be, you're the trash, not the poor folks.
 
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