E.P.A. Finalizes Its Plan to Replace Obama-Era Climate Rules

[Jack Hays]

Beauty is a personal thing. i do not consider it ugly.

Well, there you go.

 

[Jay59]

Well, there you go.

So, we have a discussion on aesthetics rather than discuss the EPA changes. What does that say?

I can say this. I'm glad the EPA is back to monitoring air, soil, and water for pollution. Clean air and water are much more pressing than climate change.

 

[Jack Hays]

So, we have a discussion on aesthetics rather than discuss the EPA changes. What does that say?

I can say this. I'm glad the EPA is back to monitoring air, soil, and water for pollution. Clean air and water are much more pressing than climate change.

We are in agreement.

 

[Media_Truth]

Very cool.

Thank you! We love our home. We lived in well-built conventional homes all our lives, and we find that our quality of life has improved dramatically. I can cite five reasons why I make this claim. First, with the 5' thick bermed walls, the house is extremely quiet. Even the loudest ambient noises, such as trucks, airplanes, etc, are buffered. Secondly, the views are tremendous. We enjoy sitting at the table over a cup of coffee in the morning, looking out the large windows at the vista. Rabbits, quail and other wildlife are abundant. Thirdly, is the obvious one - no utility bills, and the satisfaction that the house is self-sufficient. Fourth, with all the incoming light, indoor plants flourish, at an entirely different level to what we were accustomed. Herbs and garden starter plants add an amazing aroma to the house. The fifth reason is that there is no forced air, with the associated dust and health concerns.

 

[Media_Truth]

Solar might be a good alternative for 1/3 of the country but that's about it. And if you are like tens of millions who don't have the option to grid tie your system you have to deal with batteries and they are a PIA. Now if the new Telsa solar lithium batteries ever get to the point they have a decent amount of capacity without costing absurd amounts of money, it may be more viable in the future.

We were on solar for about 10 years and used it in conjunction with a gravity spring and free gas from a gas well and the solar was still a pain. Actually more impressed having a gas well and a gravity spring. Could run our fridge(gas), water heater, gas lights, heater, cooking so basically you could get by without any electricity if you were fine living that way(we weren't).

What was the problem with your solar system? I'm assuming your're talking about a photovoltaic system. Was it engineered? Nowadays, most building departments require engineered systems, suitable for the ambient conditions of the area. We installed our PV system in 2011. We've never had one issue. There is ZERO maintenance, and the system has now paid for itself. Since most PV systems still produce at 99+% of original capacity, even after over 20 years, this system is now FREE MONEY for the rest of our lives!

 

[dobieg]

Thank you! We love our home. We lived in well-built conventional homes all our lives, and we find that our quality of life has improved dramatically. I can cite five reasons why I make this claim. First, with the 5' thick bermed walls, the house is extremely quiet. Even the loudest ambient noises, such as trucks, airplanes, etc, are buffered. Secondly, the views are tremendous. We enjoy sitting at the table over a cup of coffee in the morning, looking out the large windows at the vista. Rabbits, quail and other wildlife are abundant. Thirdly, is the obvious one - no utility bills, and the satisfaction that the house is self-sufficient. Fourth, with all the incoming light, indoor plants flourish, at an entirely different level to what we were accustomed. Herbs and garden starter plants add an amazing aroma to the house. The fifth reason is that there is no forced air, with the associated dust and health concerns.

Being self sufficient is an awesome feeling and I applaud you for not only doing it but doing it in style.


I'd much prefer talking about cool stuff like this than arguing with you over politics.

 

[dobieg]

What was the problem with your solar system? I'm assuming your're talking about a photovoltaic system. Was it engineered? Nowadays, most building departments require engineered systems, suitable for the ambient conditions of the area. We installed our PV system in 2011. We've never had one issue. There is ZERO maintenance, and the system has now paid for itself. Since most PV systems still produce at 99+% of original capacity, even after over 20 years, this system is now FREE MONEY for the rest of our lives!

I assume you are grid tied?


Battery based is a different animal.

 

[Rogue Valley]

The coal lobbyist Wheeler will be out of the EPA in January 2021 and sanity will again prevail against greed and profit motives.

 

[Media_Truth]

3 million homes, wow in a country of 360 million people! And how many of those get big tax incentives to do so? Solar Tax Credit Guide and Calculator


I.E. Whe solar doesn't need that sort of help....

3 million and rising very rapidly.

Energy Star appliances also qualified for Federal Tax credits. I suppose you are against those also? Back to solar - as I mentioned earlier, solar PV systems are peak load producers, and hold down the cost of electricity for all consumers. Individuals and families make large investments, with these systems - usually a good-sized system to power a home will be about $15K. Now - consider the following facts, if the power plants were built, that these PV systems prevented from having to be built --->

1. Nuclear plants --- the NRC would have had to be expanded, with more engineers and inspectors hired - more Federal bureaucracy. More radioactive wastes would have to be managed and stored for hundreds of thousands of years. Current containment is rated at 200 years. Pass-on to future generations, who receive nothing for their effort, except even more Federal bureaucracy.

2. Coal plants --- Air quality is already out of EPA compliance in cities throughout the US. More federal bureaucracy to manage compliance issues. Radioactive wastes and other toxic wastes from the coal mining process, need to be managed, most at Federal facilities, with Federal oversight. More bureaucracy. Greenhouse gases.

3. Natural gas plants --- A little better. Greenhouse gases still an issue. Consider that most people in the US heat their homes with Natural gas. Supplies will eventually run short, raising the cost of both home heating and home electricity.

Incentives for individual investment in solar PV systems was a no-brainer. That said, these incentives start phasing out in 2020. That's fine by me, as the incentives accomplished their purpose, by making solar installations a reality. Costs are down. The industry is alive, with many startup companies and well-paying jobs.

 

[Media_Truth]

I assume you are grid tied?


Battery based is a different animal.

Yes, I'm netmetered. No batteries. Most installations nowadays are netmetered. I have friends who live in the mountains who have battery systems. Most seem happy with them, and don't seem to have too many issues. But you are correct - definitely a "different animal".

 

[Jack Hays]

3 million and rising very rapidly.

Energy Star appliances also qualified for Federal Tax credits. I suppose you are against those also? Back to solar - as I mentioned earlier, solar PV systems are peak load producers, and hold down the cost of electricity for all consumers. Individuals and families make large investments, with these systems - usually a good-sized system to power a home will be about $15K. Now - consider the following facts, if the power plants were built, that these PV systems prevented from having to be built --->

1. Nuclear plants --- the NRC would have had to be expanded, with more engineers and inspectors hired - more Federal bureaucracy. More radioactive wastes would have to be managed and stored for hundreds of thousands of years. Current containment is rated at 200 years. Pass-on to future generations, who receive nothing for their effort, except even more Federal bureaucracy.

2. Coal plants --- Air quality is already out of EPA compliance in cities throughout the US. More federal bureaucracy to manage compliance issues. Radioactive wastes and other toxic wastes from the coal mining process, need to be managed, most at Federal facilities, with Federal oversight. More bureaucracy. Greenhouse gases.

3. Natural gas plants --- A little better. Greenhouse gases still an issue. Consider that most people in the US heat their homes with Natural gas. Supplies will eventually run short, raising the cost of both home heating and home electricity.

Incentives for individual investment in solar PV systems was a no-brainer. That said, these incentives start phasing out in 2020. That's fine by me, as the incentives accomplished their purpose, by making solar installations a reality. Costs are down. The industry is alive, with many startup companies and well-paying jobs.

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[h=1]Terence Corcoran: Why the global fossil-fuel phase-out is a fantasy akin to time travel[/h][FONT=&quot]From The Financial Post Terence Corcoran June 21, 2019 1:59 PM EDT To produce the power needed to offset fossil fuels, Canada would have to build two and a half $13-billion hydro dams every year Judging from the headlines, Canada and the world are on track to ratchet up renewable energy and begin the rapid…
Continue reading →
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[joko104]

---

That's what we need to do, protect coal. Put aside for a minute that it's a bad idea, whatever happened to the idea of government not picking winners and losers? This is what happens when one puts a coal lobbyist in charge of the EPA. You know what you also get? This:

[h=1]Cost of New E.P.A. Coal Rules: Up to 1,400 More Deaths a Year[/h]Glad they're making America great.

It would be MUCH better to have lots of people freezing to death in the winter and dying of heat exhaustion in the summer being unable to pay their electric bills for the cost of "green" energy than allowing them to have electricity for sure. Since so many Democrats openly want old people to did, this is consistent with their wishes.

The only problem might be for Tesla owners, who are driving coal powered cars at this time.

 

[joko104]

So, we have a discussion on aesthetics rather than discuss the EPA changes. What does that say?

I can say this. I'm glad the EPA is back to monitoring air, soil, and water for pollution. Clean air and water are much more pressing than climate change.

One huge complaint against the climate change zealots is the result has been to forget about all other environmental issues. But that is what the government wants. Environmental issues cost the government money - or at least don't make the government money. The climate change zealots would funnel massive sums of money to the government.

 

[joko104]

---

That's what we need to do, protect coal. Put aside for a minute that it's a bad idea, whatever happened to the idea of government not picking winners and losers? This is what happens when one puts a coal lobbyist in charge of the EPA. You know what you also get? This:

[h=1]Cost of New E.P.A. Coal Rules: Up to 1,400 More Deaths a Year[/h]Glad they're making America great.

Sorry, you were out of luck trying to force me to subscribe to the Mexican publication the New York Times.

 

[MTAtech]

It would be MUCH better to have lots of people freezing to death in the winter and dying of heat exhaustion in the summer being unable to pay their electric bills for the cost of "green" energy than allowing them to have electricity for sure. Since so many Democrats openly want old people to did, this is consistent with their wishes.

The only problem might be for Tesla owners, who are driving coal powered cars at this time.

Your entire post is undercut by these things called facts.
A) Renewables Cheaper Than 75 Percent of U.S. Coal Fleet, Report Finds - Yale E360
B) nobody heats their homes any more with coal.
C) coal represents only 30% of electricity production.

 

[ludin]

Take a look at the numbers - before 2008 - very little solar. Thank you Barack Obama!!! And these people aren't paying higher energy costs - some are paying next to nothing for electricity.

which has nothing to do with what i said. so therefore is a moot argument.

good for those people that can afford 30-40k dollar solar systems to install on their home.
most people can't afford that.

PS pretty much all of barack obama's green energy nonsense failed miserably so i do not
know what you are thanking him for except soaking taxpayers for his buddies.

you should thank cheap chinese solar panels more than obama.

 

[Media_Truth]

which has nothing to do with what i said. so therefore is a moot argument.

good for those people that can afford 30-40k dollar solar systems to install on their home.
most people can't afford that.

PS pretty much all of barack obama's green energy nonsense failed miserably so i do not
know what you are thanking him for except soaking taxpayers for his buddies.

you should thank cheap chinese solar panels more than obama.

Even a 7.6 KWatt system, which is enough to power most households and an electric only costs about $15K to $20K. I just got a quote for one. Only off by a factor of 2 - hmmm. Also, the major costs of a Photovoltaic system is not the panels - they are a minor cost. Thirdly, Obama was very instrumental in providing a boost for the solar industry. You've been watching too much FOX News.

 

[Media_Truth]

[FONT="][URL="https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/06/23/terence-corcoran-why-the-global-fossil-fuel-phase-out-is-a-fantasy-akin-to-time-travel/"]

[/URL][/FONT]
[h=1]Terence Corcoran: Why the global fossil-fuel phase-out is a fantasy akin to time travel[/h][FONT="][FONT=inherit]From The Financial Post Terence Corcoran June 21, 2019 1:59 PM EDT To produce the power needed to offset fossil fuels, Canada would have to build two and a half $13-billion hydro dams every year Judging from the headlines, Canada and the world are on track to ratchet up renewable energy and begin the rapid…[/FONT]
[FONT=inherit][URL="https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/06/23/terence-corcoran-why-the-global-fossil-fuel-phase-out-is-a-fantasy-akin-to-time-travel/"]Continue reading →[/URL][/FONT]
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What did Churchhill say? "This is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is the end of the beginning."...

 

[OpportunityCost]

What this country needs is a good dose of action from it's citizens. The citizens of America can effect the largest changes by making financial decisions that force corporations to respond.

Consider that recently people all over America made the decision to pay a little more for a wind-energy option from their Utility. Goldman-Sachs invested billions into wind energy, through their subisidiary, Horizon Energy, who has installed more wind power than anybody else.

Also consider that over 3 million homes in the US have installed solar PVs. Some have installed large systems that also power their electric cars.

Your pocketbook, and your associated decisions are very powerful!!! It's also contagious, and readily shows the backwardness of this Administration.

They did get a dose of action, its called an election. You lost.

 

[j-mac]

A new article today shows exactly how the climate change cult manipulates the numbers...

Yet another round of spectacular data tampering by NASA and NOAA. cooling the past and warming the present.

Going back further, in 1990, the IPCC showed that earth was much warmer 800 years ago, when CO2 was 280 PPM during the Medieval Warm Period.

But twenty years ago, Michael Mann rewrote earth’s history, erasing the Medieval Warm Period, and showing that the planet suddenly started heating out of control when CO2 passed 280 PPM in the late 19th century.

The NASA land temperature graph didn’t look much like a hockey stick at the time, showing only about 0.5C warming since the 1860s.

NASA made some progress with their hockey stick by 2017, tripling warming to 1.5C.

Most of this was accomplished by erasing warm temperatures prior to 1880, cooling the past, and warming the present.

NASA has since enhanced their hockey stick even further, showing two degrees warming.

snip

Impressive data tampering over a two year period when satellites show land temperatures plummeting.

This data tampering was necessary for propaganda purposes, and serves as the basis for the ongoing attempt to destroy our existing energy infrastructure.

Experts say that all warming over the past 140 years is due to humans, which is largely true because the vast majority of it is due to data tampering by humans.

Tampering Past The Tipping Point | The Deplorable Climate Science Blog

Zealots in the Climate Change cult should be resisted, and denounced...They tried to destroy progress, and are, as shown here liars....

 

[Thoreau72]

Climate change is accelatring.


State of the Climate in 2018 shows accelerating climate change impacts | World Meteorological Organization


There even federal agencies under Donald Trump warns about climate change devasting effects.


"The impacts of climate change are already being felt in communities across the country. More frequent and intense extreme weather and climate-related events, as well as changes in average climate conditions, are expected to continue to damage infrastructure, ecosystems, and social systems that provide essential benefits to communities. Future climate change is expected to further disrupt many areas of life, exacerbating existing challenges to prosperity posed by aging and deteriorating infrastructure, stressed ecosystems, and economic inequality. Impacts within and across regions will not be distributed equally. People who are already vulnerable, including lower-income and other marginalized communities, have lower capacity to prepare for and cope with extreme weather and climate-related events and are expected to experience greater impacts. Prioritizing adaptation actions for the most vulnerable populations would contribute to a more equitable future within and across communities. Global action to significantly cut greenhouse gas emissions can substantially reduce climate-related risks and increase opportunities for these populations in the longer term."

Fourth National Climate Assessment

60 Minutes covered, for the second time, an upcoming trial with 11 youngsters as plaintiffs, and it appears that the government has known for decades that climate change is real and it is a threat to humankind. Still, the government kept that information secret.

Climate change: What 10 presidents have known - 60 Minutes - CBS News

 

[Media_Truth]

They did get a dose of action, its called an election. You lost.

Solar installations have continued at a high rate under TRump. The mechanisms are in place, thanks to Obama. Costs are down, and a large number of startup solar construction companies have been established, providing good high-paying jobs. Meanwhile Trump continues to beat the COAL industry dead horse.

 

[Jack Hays]

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[h=1]The Scientific Case for Vacating the EPA’s Carbon Dioxide Endangerment Finding[/h][FONT=&quot]From The Competitive Enterprise Institute Patrick J. Michaels • April 21, 2020 View Full Document as PDF Executive Summary The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) 2009 “Endangerment Finding” from carbon dioxide (CO2) and other greenhouse gases grants the agency a legal mandate that can have profound and far-reaching effects. The Finding is based largely on…
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