Deniers are about to lose the Argument

[flogger]

The fossil fuel sector will do everything in their power to block this technology and convince the public it's a bad thing, like they've been doing for years. It will become a matter of which political lean you are as to whether or not you drive an electric car.

No what will ultimately matter to the public in convincing them about this BS is whether you can fill up an electric car as quickly and cheaply as you can a real car today .... and we are a very long way from that being the case

 

[What if...?]

No what will ultimately matter to the public in convincing them about this BS is whether you can fill up an electric car as quickly and cheaply as you can a real car today .... and we are a very long way from that being the case

Nowhere near as far away as we were ten years ago. Down to a couple of hours now from 12 or more. Much better range too.

Those damn wright brothers with their useless "aircraft". What use is an "aircraft" that can only fly a couple feet off the ground for a little way?

 

[flogger]

Nowhere near as far away as we were ten years ago. Down to a couple of hours now from 12 or more. Much better range too.

Those damn wright brothers with their useless "aircraft". What use is an "aircraft" that can only fly a couple feet off the ground for a little way?

Battery technology is nowhere near realising this ideal nor will it ever be in the forseeable future

In the west driving an electric car is the simply self righteous virtue signalling of smug moral superiority over the rest of us 'prolls'.... especially when you research the filthy non environmentally friendly production processes associated with the construction of said vehicles

Utter hypocrisy. Why would I want to pay three times as much for my car ?

 

[Media_Truth]

Battery technology is nowhere near realising this ideal nor will it ever be in the forseeable future

In the west driving an electric car is the simply self righteous virtue signalling of smug moral superiority over the rest of us 'prolls'.... especially when you research the filthy non environmentally friendly production processes associated with the construction of said vehicles

Utter hypocrisy

What a joke! What is the difference between electric cars and internal combustion engine cars? One difference - a battery driven car versus one that runs on gasoline. Analysis ---

1. Regarding the direct point-of-source pollution - Electric - ZERO. Gas - Not too bad, once the car warms up, assumed it is maintained properly. Prior to warm-up - NOX and Ozone emissions. Improperly maintained - NOX and Ozone emissions. Oil and gas leaks from improperly maintained vehicles, and always in the refilling process, where fuel vapors (NOCs) enter the atmosphere.

2. Manufacturing process. Electric - battery manufacturing, which has some environmental overhead. Mining of Lithium is fairly straightforward, on the surface, from salt mines. Gas Cars - Petroleum processing - heavily polluting industry, with historical oil spills. Refineries with numerous hazardous wastes, including radioactive waste. Wells cause heavy land-impact pollution, and disruption of wildlife habitat.

3. Fuel - Electricity - depends on generation methods. Many electric cars are now charging their cars with solar PVs. Gas Cars - Extraction of oil usually involves Electric Submersible Pumps (ESPs), which are very high Voltage and high Wattage and use very much of the same electricity. Shipping of oil requires either much more electricity for pumping or freight diesel trucks, which are highly polluting, and release many of the world's most toxic carcinogens.

You use ZERO scientific analysis - nothing but your biased assinine opinions.

 

[What if...?]

Battery technology is nowhere near realising this ideal nor will it ever be in the forseeable future

In the west driving an electric car is the simply self righteous virtue signalling of smug moral superiority over the rest of us 'prolls'.... especially when you research the filthy non environmentally friendly production processes associated with the construction of said vehicles

Utter hypocrisy. Why would I want to pay three times as much for my car ?

The average commute in America is about 7 miles each way. New Electrics get 200 plus miles per charge. So range isn't a real issue for most. And while you pay more fore the car you pay far less for energy to drive it.

Batteries are also getting smaller and charge cycles may go up by several times if recent discoveries pan out. So swappable batteries may make charging time irrelevant.

And the best thing about Electrics is they don't care where the electricity comes from. Ao a new technology won't render an electric fleet obsolete.

The automobile was only marginally useful at first too, don't forget.

 

[flogger]

What a joke! What is the difference between electric cars and internal combustion engine cars? One difference - a battery driven car versus one that runs on gasoline. Analysis ---

1. Regarding the direct point-of-source pollution - Electric - ZERO. Gas - Not too bad, once the car warms up, assumed it is maintained properly. Prior to warm-up - NOX and Ozone emissions. Improperly maintained - NOX and Ozone emissions. Oil and gas leaks from improperly maintained vehicles, and always in the refilling process, where fuel vapors (NOCs) enter the atmosphere.

2. Manufacturing process. Electric - battery manufacturing, which has some environmental overhead. Mining of Lithium is fairly straightforward, on the surface, from salt mines. Gas Cars - Petroleum processing - heavily polluting industry, with historical oil spills. Refineries with numerous hazardous wastes, including radioactive waste. Wells cause heavy land-impact pollution, and disruption of wildlife habitat.

3. Fuel - Electricity - depends on generation methods. Many electric cars are now charging their cars with solar PVs. Gas Cars - Extraction of oil usually involves Electric Submersible Pumps (ESPs), which are very high Voltage and high Wattage and use very much of the same electricity. Shipping of oil requires either much more electricity for pumping or freight diesel trucks, which are highly polluting, and release many of the world's most toxic carcinogens.

You use ZERO scientific analysis - nothing but your biased assinine opinions.

So am I wrong in the current utility of electric cars vs normal car which is ultimately all that will concern the western consumer ..... outwith your scripture :roll: ?

 

[flogger]

The average commute in America is about 7 miles each way. New Electrics get 200 plus miles per charge. So range isn't a real issue for most. And while you pay more fore the car you pay far less for energy to drive it.

Batteries are also getting smaller and charge cycles may go up by several times if recent discoveries pan out. So swappable batteries may make charging time irrelevant.

And the best thing about Electrics is they don't care where the electricity comes from. Ao a new technology won't render an electric fleet obsolete.

The automobile was only marginally useful at first too, don't forget.

Ultimately the power for your trendy 'right on' lifestyle statement will come from fossil fuelled powerplants and will continue to do so for at least the next 50 years

 

[Media_Truth]

So am I wrong in the current utility of electric cars vs normal car which is ultimately all that will concern the western consumer ..... outwith your scripture :roll: ?

Electric wins the Pollution battle hands down. If you disagree, here is my list repeated. Please point out what item you disagree with (no Blog Crap).

1. Regarding the direct point-of-source pollution - Electric - ZERO. Gas - Not too bad, once the car warms up, assumed it is maintained properly. Prior to warm-up - NOX and Ozone emissions. Improperly maintained - NOX and Ozone emissions. Oil and gas leaks from improperly maintained vehicles, and always in the refilling process, where fuel vapors (NOCs) enter the atmosphere.

2. Manufacturing process. Electric - battery manufacturing, which has some environmental overhead. Mining of Lithium is fairly straightforward, on the surface, from salt mines. Gas Cars - Petroleum processing - heavily polluting industry, with historical oil spills. Refineries with numerous hazardous wastes, including radioactive waste. Wells cause heavy land-impact pollution, and disruption of wildlife habitat.

3. Fuel - Electricity - depends on generation methods. Many electric cars are now charging their cars with solar PVs. Gas Cars - Extraction of oil usually involves Electric Submersible Pumps (ESPs), which are very high Voltage and high Wattage and use very much of the same electricity. Shipping of oil requires either much more electricity for pumping or freight diesel trucks, which are highly polluting, and release many of the world's most toxic carcinogens.

 

[flogger]

]Electric wins the Pollution battle hands down.

We currently have over 6000 large container ships and bulk carriers whose emissions dwarf by a factor of around 30 all the emissions of all the cars on earth ..... why arent you going after them ?

 

[Media_Truth]

Link please...

 

[Media_Truth]

Also, you were the one who made the claims about electric cars, and now your running away with your tail between your legs, and deflecting to a different subject.

 

[Integrityrespec]

...as if they ever had one.

Extraordinary thinning’ of ice sheets revealed deep inside Antarctica

'97% Of Climate Scientists Agree' Is 100% Wrong

 

[flogger]

Also, you were the one who made the claims about electric cars, and now your running away with your tail between your legs, and deflecting to a different subject.

Simply putting vehicle emissions into a proper context.

How 16 ships create as much pollution as all the cars in the world | Daily Mail Online

You are again focusing on the wrong targets in order to restrict individual freedom.

Electric cars are all about virtue signalling by the liberal elites that can afford them. Nothing more

 

[Lord of Planar]

Simply putting vehicle emissions into a proper context.

How 16 ships create as much pollution as all the cars in the world | Daily Mail Online

You are again focusing on the wrong targets in order to restrict individual freedom.

Electric cars are all about virtue signalling by the liberal elites that can afford them. Nothing more

Cars have become virtually zero pollution. If I take the article at it's word, this is very, very distressing. It's the first I have heard of it, but as I think about the facts, I see it as very possibly true.

 

[Surface Detail]

We currently have over 6000 large container ships and bulk carriers whose emissions dwarf by a factor of around 30 all the emissions of all the cars on earth ..... why arent you going after them ?

Utter bollocks, of course. What do you think that inventing figures is going to achieve, other than making you look a complete idiot?

 

[Jack Hays]

Utter bollocks, of course. What do you think that inventing figures is going to achieve, other than making you look a complete idiot?

I believe you owe an apology.

[h=3]Cargo ships are emitting boatloads of carbon, and nobody wants to ...[/h]
[url]https://phys.org › Earth › Environment
[/URL]

Dec 18, 2018 - But hauling goods around by sea requires roughly 300 million tons of very dirty fuel, producing nearly 3 percent of the world's carbon dioxide emissions, giving the international maritime shipping industry roughly the same carbon footprint as Germany.





[h=3]Cargo ships are the world's worst polluters, so how can they be made ...[/h]
[url]https://inews.co.uk/news/long-reads/cargo-container-shipping-carbon-pollution/
[/URL]

Jan 4, 2018 - Shipping produces more carbon emissions than most countries and pollutes the oceans. Will slowing vessels or making them electric do ...

 

[longview]

I believe you owe an apology.

[h=3]Cargo ships are emitting boatloads of carbon, and nobody wants to ...[/h]
[url]https://phys.org › Earth › Environment
[/URL]

Dec 18, 2018 - But hauling goods around by sea requires roughly 300 million tons of very dirty fuel, producing nearly 3 percent of the world's carbon dioxide emissions, giving the international maritime shipping industry roughly the same carbon footprint as Germany.





[h=3]Cargo ships are the world's worst polluters, so how can they be made ...[/h]
[url]https://inews.co.uk/news/long-reads/cargo-container-shipping-carbon-pollution/
[/URL]

Jan 4, 2018 - Shipping produces more carbon emissions than most countries and pollutes the oceans. Will slowing vessels or making them electric do ...

It does not help that regulation make bunker fuels almost a waste product. Shipping companies are almost paid to take it
off the refineries hands. Once out at sea, regulations are much less strict, so they can burn it.

 

[Surface Detail]

I believe you owe an apology.

[h=3]Cargo ships are emitting boatloads of carbon, and nobody wants to ...[/h]
[url]https://phys.org › Earth › Environment
[/URL]

Dec 18, 2018 - But hauling goods around by sea requires roughly 300 million tons of very dirty fuel, producing nearly 3 percent of the world's carbon dioxide emissions, giving the international maritime shipping industry roughly the same carbon footprint as Germany.





[h=3]Cargo ships are the world's worst polluters, so how can they be made ...[/h]
[url]https://inews.co.uk/news/long-reads/cargo-container-shipping-carbon-pollution/
[/URL]

Jan 4, 2018 - Shipping produces more carbon emissions than most countries and pollutes the oceans. Will slowing vessels or making them electric do ...

I believe you need to learn to read.

Where in the references you cited does it say that shipping emissions dwarf by a factor of around 30 all the emissions of all the cars on earth?

 

[Lord of Planar]

It does not help that regulation make bunker fuels almost a waste product. Shipping companies are almost paid to take it
off the refineries hands. Once out at sea, regulations are much less strict, so they can burn it.

Maybe we need a global regulation on it. You know however that China would never agree, and veto a UN decision.

 

[Surface Detail]

Maybe we need a global regulation on it. You know however that China would never agree, and veto a UN decision.

It's the US that seems intent on destroying international co-operation at the moment.

 

[longview]

Maybe we need a global regulation on it. You know however that China would never agree, and veto a UN decision.

It would be very hard to police what happens out of site of land.

 

[Jack Hays]

I believe you need to learn to read.

Where in the references you cited does it say that shipping emissions dwarf by a factor of around 30 all the emissions of all the cars on earth?

From the second link:

[FONT=&quot]". . . It has been estimated that just one of these container ships, the length of around six football pitches, can produce the same amount of pollution as 50 million cars. The emissions from 15 of these mega-ships match those from all the cars in the world. And if the shipping industry were a country, it would be ranked between Germany and Japan as the sixth-largest contributor to global CO2 emissions. . . . "[/FONT]

 

[Surface Detail]

From the second link:

[FONT="]". . . It has been estimated that just one of these container ships, the length of around six football pitches, can produce the same amount of pollution as 50 million cars. The emissions from 15 of these mega-ships match those from all the cars in the world. And if the shipping industry were a country, it would be ranked between Germany and Japan as the sixth-largest contributor to global CO2 emissions. . . . "[/FONT]

Sorry, but the author of that piece appears to be confused, or is deliberately conflating emissions of different substances. In fact, greenhouse gas emissions from road vehicles account for over half of the emissions from the transportation sector:

Sources of Greenhouse Gas Emissions | Greenhouse Gas (GHG) Emissions | US EPA

"The largest sources of transportation-related greenhouse gas emissions include passenger cars and light-duty trucks, including sport utility vehicles, pickup trucks, and minivans. These sources account for over half of the emissions from the transportation sector. The remaining greenhouse gas emissions from the transportation sector come from other modes of transportation, including freight trucks, commercial aircraft, ships, boats, and trains, as well as pipelines and lubricants."

 

[calamity]

Sorry, but the author of that piece appears to be confused, or is deliberately conflating emissions of different substances. In fact, greenhouse gas emissions from road vehicles account for over half of the emissions from the transportation sector:

Sources of Greenhouse Gas Emissions | Greenhouse Gas (GHG) Emissions | US EPA

"The largest sources of transportation-related greenhouse gas emissions include passenger cars and light-duty trucks, including sport utility vehicles, pickup trucks, and minivans. These sources account for over half of the emissions from the transportation sector. The remaining greenhouse gas emissions from the transportation sector come from other modes of transportation, including freight trucks, commercial aircraft, ships, boats, and trains, as well as pipelines and lubricants."

lol...Jack's source be wrong. I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

 

[Jack Hays]

Sorry, but the author of that piece appears to be confused, or is deliberately conflating emissions of different substances. In fact, greenhouse gas emissions from road vehicles account for over half of the emissions from the transportation sector:

Sources of Greenhouse Gas Emissions | Greenhouse Gas (GHG) Emissions | US EPA

"The largest sources of transportation-related greenhouse gas emissions include passenger cars and light-duty trucks, including sport utility vehicles, pickup trucks, and minivans. These sources account for over half of the emissions from the transportation sector. The remaining greenhouse gas emissions from the transportation sector come from other modes of transportation, including freight trucks, commercial aircraft, ships, boats, and trains, as well as pipelines and lubricants."

lol...Jack's source be wrong. I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

Tsk tsk. Your source is US emissions only. The US is a microscopic player in cargo vessel ownership. Try to find some global data if you wish to continue to play.