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Defining Islamophobia

stevecanuck said:
With the word Islamophobia being thrown about like Frisbees in a dog park, isn't it time we actually defined it? Iqra Khalid's M-103 introduced and then condemned Islamophobia in Canada's House of Commons minus any explanation of what it is. Such vagueness leaves the door to abuse wide open. Canadians would be vulnerable to capricious and politically-motivated prosecution/persecution should parliament take M-103 to the next level and pass an imprecisely worded law criminalizing Islamophobia.

Our right to responsibly speak freely and debate uncomfortable subjects is at stake. In defining Islamophobia we have to recognize that legitimate criticism of some tenets of Islam, or any other religion, is neither hate speech, phobic, nor incitement to commit violence. This is Free Speech 101.
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Bed-wetting leftist liberals are afraid to death of Islamic radicals. Their fear is called "Islamophobia." American Christians like me are not the slightest afraid of the murdering Islamic jihadist marauders.
 
stevecanuck said:
Yes, you have said that, which brings us back your profound and complete ignorance of Islam. We're probably done here, so if you need the last word, have at it.
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I have no ignorance of islam. Where as you do have a biased view of it.
 
soylentgreen said:
I have no ignorance of islam. Where as you do have a biased view of it.
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Thanks for my knee-slapper of the week. That beats anything in the Funny Pictures thread.

Since you have "no ignorance of Islam", I'm assuming you know all about the Battle of Badr, and that certain surahs have been dedicated to it. The following is my take on surah 47 (which of course you know all about - cuz you have "no ignorance of Islam"). Sorry, but that makes me giggle every time I type it. Let me know how my assessment stacks up against yours.

Surah 47 was authored after the Battle of Badr. It is based on the participation, or lack thereof, of the Bedouin tribes who pledged support for Mohamed, but faltered when it came to actually fighting in the battle. Mohamed uses their reticence as a vehicle to drive home the point that those who say they will fight and die for God had better be prepared to follow through or suffer the consequences. As usual the "consequences" mean burning in Hell for eternity along side the rest of us garden variety infidels. It contains 38 verses that reinforce the 'us versus them', 'belief versus disbelief' theme on which the entire Qur'an is based. "Those who believe...." on the one hand representing all that is good opposing "Those who disbelieve...", doers of evil, on the other. Again, and again, and again.

The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
 
Logician Man said:
So the real truth is, you have no 'actual' number, nor any link that provides a credible, verifiable percentage. You do realize 17 million is a 'minute' percentage of the approximately 1.8 Muslims worldwide ? I'll let you do the math on that one.
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We have been through that with him before.
 
Only two groups in our society promote the “Quran teaches terrorism” myth: anti-Muslim pundits and Isis extremists. Both are wrong.

This simplistic conclusion ignores that many groups in many countries are experiencing terror right now. It ignores the international arms trade from powerful western nations that wholly disregards human rights and has caused the death of more than 60,000 children in Yemen. And it ignores the fact that as Somalians suffer a massive famine Western media virtually ignores them – as it has ignored the Syrian crisis for the last several years.

Yet with attacks in Egypt, London and Syria, critics default to blaming the Quran, citing its allegedly “violent” verses. We cannot resolve the Syrian, Yemeni and Somalia atrocities until we adhere to justice. Blaming the Quran for terrorism is not only demonstrably false, it wastes precious resources that could be spent on stopping war and famine.

The Quran requires that you read it in full. No “cafeteria Quran” here. As Quran 3:8 says, “We believe in it, the whole is from our Lord.” Isis and Islamophobes instead cherry pick. Quran 3:8 pre-emptively calls out people who cherry pick as “perverse” people, declaring, “…those in whose hearts is perversity seek discord and wrong interpretation of [the Quran].”

Anyone who says the Quran advocates terrorism obviously hasn't read its lessons on violence | The Independent
 
marke said:
Bed-wetting leftist liberals are afraid to death of Islamic radicals. Their fear is called "Islamophobia." American Christians like me are not the slightest afraid of the murdering Islamic jihadist marauders.
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Are you implying you would travel to Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, get on your soap box in a public place, and shout those very words at the top of your lungs ?
 
Logician Man said:
Are you implying you would travel to Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, get on your soap box in a public place, and shout those very words at the top of your lungs ?
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One of my closest friends has been my friend for 45 years. We were in the Army together. We stayed in NC when we got out of the Army. He went to Pakistan in the late 1970s or early to mid 1980s (I don't remember the exact dates) to serve as an American missionary there. He worked with a native pastor there and even married one of the man's daughters. He had to leave Pakistan maybe 7 or 8 years later because of the political environment, not for fear of his life. He even tried for years to get back into Pakistan but the US government would not grant his VISA.

Members of his wife's family were murdered by native barbarians because of the savage's hatred for Christians. I feared my friend would have been murdered also if he had been allowed to return. Christians are not afraid of bloody brutal savages because God is our savior and Lord and we accept the fact, like Esther of old, "if we perish we perish."

I mentioned here a few days ago the young Christian police officer in Carthage, NC who raced into a nursing home to confront a killer still shooting innocent victims there. He got shot as well but he stopped the gunman and the killing, unlike slowpoke police responses in other mass shootings around the country. What was the difference? The young man was a Christian and did not fear for his own life.
 
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marke said:
One of my closest friends has been my friend for 45 years. We were in the Army together. We stayed in NC when we got out of the Army. He went to Pakistan in the late 1970s or early to mid 1980s (I don't remember the exact dates) to serve as an American missionary there. He worked with a native pastor there and even married one of the man's daughters. He had to leave Pakistan maybe 7 or 8 years later because of the political environment, not for fear of his life. He even tried for years to get back into Pakistan but the US government would not grant his VISA.

Members of his wife's family were murdered by native barbarians because of the savage's hatred for Christians. I feared my friend would have been murdered also if he had been allowed to return. Christians are not afraid of bloody brutal savages because God is our savior and Lord and we accept the fact, like Esther of old, "if we perish we perish."
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Is that a YES or a NO to the question you were asked ?
 
zyzygy said:
Only two groups in our society promote the “Quran teaches terrorism” myth: anti-Muslim pundits and Isis extremists.
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Uh, you forget to mention:

Abdullah Azzam Brigades
Abu Nidal Organization
Abu Sayyaf
Aden Abyan Islamic Army
Ajnad Misr
Al Aqsa Martyr's Brigade
Al Badr
Al Jama'a al Islamiyya
Al Ghurabaa
Al Haramain Islamic Foundation
AIAI
Al Mourabitoun
Al Nusra Front
Al Qaeda
Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula
Al Qaeda in the Indian subcontinent
Al Qaeda in the Islamic Magreb
Ansar Al Sharia in Libya
Ansar Al Islam fee Kurdistan
Jamaat Ansar al Sunna
Ansar Bait al Maqdis
Ansar Dine
Ansar ul Islam
Ansaru
Armed Islamic Group of Algeria
Army of Islam
Army of the Men of the Naqshbandi Order
Asa'ib Ahl al-Haq
Osbat al-Ansar
Badr Organisation
Boko Haram
Caucasus Emirate
East Turkestan Islamic Party
Egyptian Islamic Jihad
Great Eastern Islamic Raider's Front
Hammas

Oops, that's all I have time for right now. I'll finish the list another day. I guess they all bought into the "myth" as well. Tell you what, why don't you, an infidel who has probably never read the Qur'an, explain to all these groups (and the rest on the list) exactly what they're getting wrong. I'm sure they would be interested in learning the error their ways.

What were they thinking by not consulting you first?????
 
Logician Man said:
The simple YES or NO question in post #108. The one you chose to dodge. So, what is your answer to that very specific question ? YES or NO ?
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I cannot answer the question if you do not repost it. Or, I will not answer the question if you do not repost it. Suit yourself.
 
marke said:
I cannot answer the question if you do not repost it. Or, I will not answer the question if you do not repost it. Suit yourself.
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No need for you to run twice. I'll just accept the fact you conceded the argument and pocket your defeat.
 
Logician Man said:
No need for you to run twice. I'll just accept the fact you conceded the argument and pocket your defeat.
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Suit yourself. I don't re-argue past posts. I am stubborn that way. I only argue posts in the present.
 
stevecanuck said:
Uh, you forget to mention:

Abdullah Azzam Brigades
Abu Nidal Organization
Abu Sayyaf
Aden Abyan Islamic Army
Ajnad Misr
Al Aqsa Martyr's Brigade
Al Badr
Al Jama'a al Islamiyya
Al Ghurabaa
Al Haramain Islamic Foundation
AIAI
Al Mourabitoun
Al Nusra Front
Al Qaeda
Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula
Al Qaeda in the Indian subcontinent
Al Qaeda in the Islamic Magreb
Ansar Al Sharia in Libya
Ansar Al Islam fee Kurdistan
Jamaat Ansar al Sunna
Ansar Bait al Maqdis
Ansar Dine
Ansar ul Islam
Ansaru
Armed Islamic Group of Algeria
Army of Islam
Army of the Men of the Naqshbandi Order
Asa'ib Ahl al-Haq
Osbat al-Ansar
Badr Organisation
Boko Haram
Caucasus Emirate
East Turkestan Islamic Party
Egyptian Islamic Jihad
Great Eastern Islamic Raider's Front
Hammas

Oops, that's all I have time for right now. I'll finish the list another day. I guess they all bought into the "myth" as well. Tell you what, why don't you, an infidel who has probably never read the Qur'an, explain to all these groups (and the rest on the list) exactly what they're getting wrong. I'm sure they would be interested in learning the error their ways.

What were they thinking by not consulting you first?????
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Thank you for the list of extremists.
 
zyzygy said:
Thank you for the list of extremists.
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So, we agree you were lying when you said ISIS was the only Islamic group who buys into the "terrorism myth". We can probably also agree that it's not necessary for me to post the rest of the list.

Now, let's address the underlying lie you based your post on. You're trying to sneakily imply that Islamic terrorism is new given that ISIS has only existed for a few years. Attacking deep into enemy territory (9/11 etc), is indeed relatively new, but that's only because modern international mobility, coupled with a rededication to jihad, is relatively new. In the day of the first Muslims, terrorism existed in the form of military conquest. The first Muslims were conquerors. Plain and simple. Where do you suppose their call-to-arms came from if not from the Qur'an?

If you can convince me that Mohamed's extermination of the Jews of Medina (and we're talking about genocide here) was not a form of terrorism, then I will quite DP.
 
zyzygy said:
Thank you for the list of extremists.
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Yes, you're starting to get it.

Just because a person is born a Muslim in no way means he's going to become an extremist. To rise (fall?) to that level, he must first digest the Qur'an, hadiths, and Islamic history, AND he really has to believe that the Qur'an is a verbatim sermon from Allah. Not all do, but they better not admit it. You know, the whole 'put them to death' thing and all that.

But, those who do believe in taking Allah's wishes to the extreme are NOT stepping outside of Islam. They're following it, even the extreme bits.

Verse 61:4 says, "Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.", and 9:29 follows it with, "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

That is a lot to ask of a person, and only those who TRULY believe their position in the afterlife is tied to the degree to which they obey those commands will do as asked. Is there anything unreasonable about my position here?
 
stevecanuck said:
Thanks for my knee-slapper of the week. That beats anything in the Funny Pictures thread.

Since you have "no ignorance of Islam", I'm assuming you know all about the Battle of Badr, and that certain surahs have been dedicated to it. The following is my take on surah 47 (which of course you know all about - cuz you have "no ignorance of Islam"). Sorry, but that makes me giggle every time I type it. Let me know how my assessment stacks up against yours.

Surah 47 was authored after the Battle of Badr. It is based on the participation, or lack thereof, of the Bedouin tribes who pledged support for Mohamed, but faltered when it came to actually fighting in the battle. Mohamed uses their reticence as a vehicle to drive home the point that those who say they will fight and die for God had better be prepared to follow through or suffer the consequences. As usual the "consequences" mean burning in Hell for eternity along side the rest of us garden variety infidels. It contains 38 verses that reinforce the 'us versus them', 'belief versus disbelief' theme on which the entire Qur'an is based. "Those who believe...." on the one hand representing all that is good opposing "Those who disbelieve...", doers of evil, on the other. Again, and again, and again.

The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
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I fail to see what this has to do with islam today that has many different sects and different ways of believing. Your cherry picking of the violence that can be found in the koran is no different from cherry picking the violence in the bible.
It does not reflect what various people believe. All that your cherry picking does is give us a demonstration of your own personal view. Which is no different from anyone as there is no such thing as a universal acceptance of interpretation of those books. Everyone has their own personal vies.
 
soylentgreen said:
I fail to see what this has to do with islam today that has many different sects and different ways of believing. Your cherry picking of the violence that can be found in the koran is no different from cherry picking the violence in the bible.
It does not reflect what various people believe. All that your cherry picking does is give us a demonstration of your own personal view. Which is no different from anyone as there is no such thing as a universal acceptance of interpretation of those books. Everyone has their own personal vies.
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If you fail to see what the Qur'an has to do with Islam, then there's absolutely nothing further we have to say to each other.
 
stevecanuck said:
If you fail to see what the Qur'an has to do with Islam, then there's absolutely nothing further we have to say to each other.
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I do not fail to see what the koran has to do with islam. It is the heart and sole of islam. Just as the bible is for christianity.

But what i also see here is that you are cherry picking the koran for your own agenda.
 
stevecanuck said:
YYYAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNN.

Wake me up if you actually think of an argument. Until then, buh bye.
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Sorry, but i have lost count of how many times you have said goodbye.

Last word then.
There are people who believe in a peaceful islam. That cannot be denied. To say then that the koran is a book that teaches violence can only come from another source. In this case your own hatred for the religion.
 
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