Defining Islamophobia

[stevecanuck]

So the real truth is, you have no 'actual' number, nor any link that provides a credible, verifiable percentage. You do realize 17 million is a 'minute' percentage of the approximately 1.8 Muslims worldwide ? I'll let you do the math on that one.

Sorry, some posts are just too ridiculous to comment on. Pretending I should know the exact number is trolling, and very bad trolling at that. If you have a real comment, I'll listen.

 

[stevecanuck]

^^^^ your words...

There really should be a sarcasm font. Some people apparently need it.

 

[Logician Man]

Sorry, some posts are just too ridiculous to comment on. Pretending I should know the exact number is trolling, and very bad trolling at that. If you have a real comment, I'll listen.

Yet in your post above ( # 72 ), you claim you know the 'exact' number, then you do the crawfish retreat and throw a silly,unfounded accusation out as a defense. That's on you....no one else..

 

[stevecanuck]

Yet in your post above ( # 72 ), you claim you know the 'exact' number, then you do the crawfish retreat and throw a silly,unfounded accusation out as a defense. That's on you....no one else..

Isn't this where you claim victory and then go away? That's the usual script for those who have nothing concrete to add to a discussion.

The answer to your question truly is "enough to be a problem". Expecting an exact number is just too stupid for further words. Rant away. Good bye.

 

[Logician Man]

Isn't this where you claim victory and then go away? That's the usual script for those who have nothing concrete to add to a discussion.

The answer to your question truly is "enough to be a problem". Expecting an exact number is just too stupid for further words. Rant away. Good bye.

I asked for a percentage, of which your best guesstimate would have been fair and adequate. It was YOU who claimed to have an 'exact' number, Correct ? Just how deep are you going to bury yourself before you just admit you either don't have an answer to a 'fair' question, or simply refuse to give that answer ?

 

[soylentgreen]

Again, it's more a matter of choosing whether or not to obey more than it is a translation.

The trouble is that theists will translate what they want from the book whether it be love or hate. And the problem with theism is that they then turn around and demand that everyone obey their particular translation.

It only matters that they believe they are being watched and that notes are being taken.

They are only really watching themselves. Funny how their god always agrees with their version of the bibles.

Could you be getting your cause and effect backwards? Doesn't the religion create beliefs rather than support existing ones?

Why do you think there are so many variations on religion. In truth there is not one god. There are millions of gods. One for every individual who needs a god.

If there is, I'm in BIG trouble.

Then you cannot blame a god for dictating anything.

The NT contains stories about Jesus and his love for all mankind (I wish he really did exist). The Qur'an has literally hundreds of God-hates-infidels verses. Hundreds.

Yet go to a westboro meeting and you will find nothing but hate for gays and those who do not follow that particular belief system. Or listen to 15 minute speech by a muslim survivor of the nz massacre and hear him speak of love for all and forgiveness for the killer. Like these peopel you are simply picking out the parts in the books that you want.

Yes, but one of those books has worse crap than the other.

That really is like debating who is faster, superman or the flash.

I already know Islam is a religion of hate. What I have to do is try not to judge individual Muslims until they show me the degree to which they have bought into it.

Agreed.

All atheists need to start from a position of an ignostic. There is no way of knowing which god we are dealing with until the theists tells us.

Sometimes I look at the calendar just to reassure myself that we live in the 21st century.



Not one of my best analogies.



Mohamed was not trying to be vague. He was trying to build an army. The least vague aspect of his 6,236 verse rant was in defining the bad guys. That would be us. After all, what's the good of building an army if you don't tell them who the enemy is (God is the enemy of infidels - 2:98).

And the christians used the bible on the same way with the crusades. But this is the 21 century and unfortunately some christians and some muslims wish to carry on that fight. But we cannot judge them all by that standard. Nor should we because that is the hate that both sides wish to breed.

 

[stevecanuck]

The trouble is that theists will translate what they want from the book whether it be love or hate. And the problem with theism is that they then turn around and demand that everyone obey their particular translation.



They are only really watching themselves. Funny how their god always agrees with their version of the bibles.




Why do you think there are so many variations on religion. In truth there is not one god. There are millions of gods. One for every individual who needs a god.




Then you cannot blame a god for dictating anything.




Yet go to a westboro meeting and you will find nothing but hate for gays and those who do not follow that particular belief system. Or listen to 15 minute speech by a muslim survivor of the nz massacre and hear him speak of love for all and forgiveness for the killer. Like these peopel you are simply picking out the parts in the books that you want.



That really is like debating who is faster, superman or the flash.




All atheists need to start from a position of an ignostic. There is no way of knowing which god we are dealing with until the theists tells us.







And the christians used the bible on the same way with the crusades. But this is the 21 century and unfortunately some christians and some muslims wish to carry on that fight. But we cannot judge them all by that standard. Nor should we because that is the hate that both sides wish to breed.

I've tried to answer all your questions in as linear a manner as I know how, but all you do in return is regurgitate what you previously said while ignoring my answers. I'm out.

 

[soylentgreen]

I've tried to answer all your questions in as linear a manner as I know how, but all you do in return is regurgitate what you previously said while ignoring my answers. I'm out.

I have ignored nothing. You on the other hand have made a phobic response that we should hate a group of people because of a book. Can we get a more ridiculous reason than that?

 

[stevecanuck]

I have ignored nothing.

You have ignored just about everything I've posted in response to you.

You on the other hand have made a phobic response

Nope. I've backed up all my claims with quotes and examples.

that we should hate a group of people

Nope. Never did. Never will. You lie.

because of a book. Can we get a more ridiculous reason than that?

When did the Qur'an stop being the written word of "God's" verbatim message to Mohamed, and become just a "book". I must have missed that.

All of the above is why I'm out. Rant on, The floor is yours.

 

[stevecanuck]

You on the other hand have made a phobic response that we should hate a group of people because of a book.

I've been thinking about this some more, and I've concluded I need to do a better job of challenging this lie.

Go back and show where I've done this, or apologize. I will NOT let you get away with saying that.

 

[soylentgreen]

I've been thinking about this some more, and I've concluded I need to do a better job of challenging this lie.

Go back and show where I've done this, or apologize. I will NOT let you get away with saying that.

No, i feel no need to apologise. Nor is what i have said a lie.

You are pointing to one book and telling us that it commands muslims to be violent. You cannot separate the two out. What you are doing is the same silly argument christians make about homosexuality. Do not hate the homosexual hate the homosexuality. Do not hate the muslim hate the islamic religion. Do not hate the christian hate the christianity,

They are dumb arguments with the only real meaning it has is as an excuse to hate without having to carry the burden of guilt for hating.

So long as you choose to represent the koran as a book of hate then you must also bear the guilt of advocating hatred for muslims.

 

[stevecanuck]

No, i feel no need to apologise. Nor is what i have said a lie.

You are pointing to one book

You mean the book that is believed by devout Muslims to a verbatim 6,236 verse sermon from God? That book?

and telling us that it commands muslims to be violent.

Look up the Arabic word "qatilu" and get back to us.

You cannot separate the two out.

So would you have automatically hated 1940's Germans because they were born into a society that was run by Nazis? Or would you maybe "separate the two out"?

What you are doing is the same silly argument christians make about homosexuality. Do not hate the homosexual hate the homosexuality. Do not hate the muslim hate the islamic religion. Do not hate the christian hate the christianity, They are dumb arguments with the only real meaning it has is as an excuse to hate without having to carry the burden of guilt for hating.

How is that silly? Do you really think it's not possible to "hate the sin; love the sinner"? Really? What a narrow person you must be.

So long as you choose to represent the koran as a book of hate then you must also bear the guilt of advocating hatred for muslims.

Not true. The Qur'an IS a book of hate. Period. But, there are great numbers of Muslims who are so because of birth and nothing else. They are not only not to be hated, but given a refuge if they want to escape that evil ideology.

 

[PoppyCock]

With the word Islamophobia being thrown about like Frisbees in a dog park, isn't it time we actually defined it? Iqra Khalid's M-103 introduced and then condemned Islamophobia in Canada's House of Commons minus any explanation of what it is. Such vagueness leaves the door to abuse wide open. Canadians would be vulnerable to capricious and politically-motivated prosecution/persecution should parliament take M-103 to the next level and pass an imprecisely worded law criminalizing Islamophobia.

Our right to responsibly speak freely and debate uncomfortable subjects is at stake. In defining Islamophobia we have to recognize that legitimate criticism of some tenets of Islam, or any other religion, is neither hate speech, phobic, nor incitement to commit violence. This is Free Speech 101.

Basically it's anytime a Conservative criticizes Islam, particularly a white Christian Conservative.

 

[Logician Man]

You mean the book that is believed by devout Muslims to a verbatim 6,236 verse sermon from God? That book?



Look up the Arabic word "qatilu" and get back to us.



So would you have automatically hated 1940's Germans because they were born into a society that was run by Nazis? Or would you maybe "separate the two out"?



How is that silly? Do you really think it's not possible to "hate the sin; love the sinner"? Really? What a narrow person you must be.



Not true. The Qur'an IS a book of hate. Period. But, there are great numbers of Muslims who are so because of birth and nothing else. They are not only not to be hated, but given a refuge if they want to escape that evil ideology.

Assuming your claim is correct, and indeed the Qu'ran ' is a book of hate. Period. '....Tell us your best 'guesstimate/opinion' of the percentage of the 1.8 billion Muslims worldwide practice an all out ideology of hate, and what that ideology of hate entails, regarding harming/affecting other human beings.

 

[Logician Man]

Basically it's anytime a Conservative criticizes Islam, particularly a white Christian Conservative.

What differentiates a white Christian Conservative criticizing Islam from a white Christian Liberal criticizing Islam, other than political lean, if anything ?

 

[PoppyCock]

What differentiates a white Christian Conservative criticizing Islam from a white Christian Liberal criticizing Islam, other than political lean, if anything ?

That's about it, asides from liberal christians are more rare and the liberal party pushes the "Islamaphobe" label over any critics of islam.

In the same way any criticism of blacks is "racist".

 

[Logician Man]

That's about it, asides from liberal christians are more rare and the liberal party pushes the "Islamaphobe" label over any critics of islam.

In the same way any criticism of blacks is "racist".

Do you have a link to a credible source that validates your positive claim that 'liberal Christians' are more rare ?. If so, please present it. If not, your positive claim can, and will, be summarily dismissed with the same veracity with which it was presented.

 

[PoppyCock]

Do you have a link to a credible source that validates your positive claim that 'liberal Christians' are more rare ?. If so, please present it. If not, your positive claim can, and will, be summarily dismissed with the same veracity with which it was presented.

Lets see, i post on several political forums. Just a wild guess based on Liberal animosity to Christianity and water carrying for Islam. Not to mention the bigotry of Democrats for "Xianity"

 

[Logician Man]

Lets see, i post on several political forums. Just a wild guess based on Liberal animosity to Christianity and water carrying for Islam. Not to mention the bigotry of Democrats for "Xianity"

So no links whatsoever to any 'credible' sources to validate your positive claims....just throwing stuff on a wall to see if anything sticks, a.k.a deflection/non-answer/'guessing'......got it....

 

[soylentgreen]

You mean the book that is believed by devout Muslims to a verbatim 6,236 verse sermon from God? That book?
.

Yes, a book that is also cherry picked, just like any other religious book.

Look up the Arabic word "qatilu" and get back to us.

Talk to an actual muslim and then get back to us.

So would you have automatically hated 1940's Germans because they were born into a society that was run by Nazis? Or would you maybe "separate the two out"?

No, I would have talked to a german and waited until he told ne he was a nazi. Just as i would talk to a theist and wait till he told me he had a religion of hate. Not just assume it as you do.

How is that silly? Do you really think it's not possible to "hate the sin; love the sinner"? Really? What a narrow person you must be.

Because it is nothing more than a poor excuse to actually hate the sinner.

Not true. The Qur'an IS a book of hate. Period. But, there are great numbers of Muslims who are so because of birth and nothing else. They are not only not to be hated, but given a refuge if they want to escape that evil ideology

It is no more a book of hate than is the bible. It is ambivalent. A person can find hate or love in that book. It really depends on the person, not the book.

 

[American]

1.) actually it is unless of course every singly Muslim and mosque does that, practices it, enforces it and believes it . . . which that answer is nope
2.) exactly which makes it subjective
3.) yes i know cause i didnt make it up
4.) its not me thats right or wrong its reality and your claim is wrong again it is subjective opinion as facts already prove
5.) its not tricky at all its just understanding reality vs fiction and subjective opinions.

The problem is you can't ever know exactly who will and who won't. Those that do, come suddenly out of nowhere.

 

[AGENT J]

The problem is you can't ever know exactly who will and who won't. Those that do, come suddenly out of nowhere.

well if thats a "problem" its problem that exists in varying degrees for every single person regardless of race, religion, sex etc etc etc seeing it any other way is dishonest, uneducated, hypocritical and bigoted

 

[stevecanuck]

It is no more a book of hate than is the bible. It is ambivalent. A person can find hate or love in that book. It really depends on the person, not the book.

Here's the thing about ignorance that you don't seem to understand: When one knows nothing about a subject, then one has zero credibility in making firm statements regarding said subject. This definition covers every post you've made on the subject of Islam. You are in desperate need of learning how to accept uncomfortable facts that contradict your worldview. Islam to you is a very large bandaid clinging to every hair on your body. Time to let 'er rip.

After nearly 2 decades of studying the Qur'an, the fact of which I am most sure is that it is anything but ambivalent.

 

[soylentgreen]

Here's the thing about ignorance that you don't seem to understand: When one knows nothing about a subject, then one has zero credibility in making firm statements regarding said subject. This definition covers every post you've made on the subject of Islam. You are in desperate need of learning how to accept uncomfortable facts that contradict your worldview. Islam to you is a very large bandaid clinging to every hair on your body. Time to let 'er rip.

After nearly 2 decades of studying the Qur'an, the fact of which I am most sure is that it is anything but ambivalent.

That would only be because you have chosen to put your own bias upon it. As i have said, the book can mean anything you want it to and you have chosen to believe evil about it. But that evil does not come from the book. It comes from you choosing it.

 

[stevecanuck]

...As i have said, the book can mean anything you want it to...

Yes, you have said that, which brings us back your profound and complete ignorance of Islam. We're probably done here, so if you need the last word, have at it.