Deficit-swelling Trump White House plans to use deficit against Democrats

[Conservative]

What did Democrats do? They let the upper income portions of the Bush tax-cuts expire in 2013. Those, coupled with the special taxes for the ACA ad the improving economy, brought in a lot more revenue.

Now there you go again showing that you believe all revenue belongs to the government and that those evil rich people can fund your spending appetite. There isn't enough money from the rich to fund what you want the government to spend.

Your Nanny State mentality and focus is staggering ignorance of the economy of the United States

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[jonny5]

What did Democrats do? They let the upper income portions of the Bush tax-cuts expire in 2013. Those, coupled with the special taxes for the ACA ad the improving economy, brought in a lot more revenue.

Technically Republicans were in control of the House then. But your chart makes it look like revenue grew at the same rate as before they expired.

Increase in Income Tax Revenue in Real Billions
2011 192.9
2012 40.7
2013 184.2
2014 78.2
2015 146.2
2016 5.3

As you can see, the increase was greater in 2011 even before the rates when up. Same when you make it relative to GDP

Income Tax Share of GDP. No matter what rates you set, the govt collects about 8% of GDP in income tax.
2007 8.1
2008 7.8
2009 6.3
2010 6.1
2011 7.1
2012 7.1
2013 7.9
2014 8.0
2015 8.5

So, the Dems/Reps didnt do anything. The economy grew, they got more taxes, they spent it all and then spent some more.

 

[Tbird19482]

I find it amazing that when a Democrat is in the WH the Congress means nothing and it is all Democratic President's results but vice versa with a Republican in the WH. This discredited chart shows no context or understanding of economic policies and actual results Stunning ignorance by the radical left, Obama had a Democratic Congress in 2009-2010 and a Democratic Senate 2009-2014 with four straight years of trillion dollar deficits so where is that in your chart? Stop letting the left make a fool out of you

did you ever think that when Obama took office he took over the worst recession EVER?
Yes Obama took over the worst recession EVER from Bush and IF you have ever took any Economic courses you would know that it takes several YEARS to recover from something that bad.
And IF you took some time you would have found out that the economy does better under a Dem President then a Republican President
4 years of Trillion dollar deficits???
Lets see the deficit is added on to the Debt.
So in Obama's third Year in office he only had a 671 BILLION dollar debt
and seeing the deficit is part of what is added to the debt HOW could Obama have over 4 years of Trillion dollar deficits?
One other thing The Republicans have kept their LIE alive Obama did NOT double the debt or triple it or ran it up MORE then ALL his Predecessors combined
One more FACT by the Constitution the incoming President takes over the Budget and the debt on Oct 1 of the year he takes office
and on Oct 1 of 2009 the debt was 11.909,829,003,511.75 and IF Obama doubled it it would have been OVER 23 Trillion when Trump took over and it wasn't
For your info Trump has run the debt UP more in his FIRST year in office ( in a recovering economy NOT the worst Recession ever ) then Obama did in 6 out of the 8 years he was in office
Here is what Obama ran it up by year
1st year 1,651 Trillion dollars
2nd year 122.87 trillion dollars ( Fist year LESS then Trump, Trump has run it up 1,3 plus TRILLION dollars)
3rd year 1,265 Trillion dollars ( another year LESS then Trump)
4th year 671.9 BILLION dollars ( another year LESS then Trump)
5th year 1.085 Trillion Dollars ( fourth year LESS then Trump )
6th Year 326.5 BILLION dollars ( fifth year less then Trump )
7th year 1,422 Trillion dollars ( second year MORE hen Trump )
and Obama's 8th year in office it was 671 Billion dollars ( 6th YEAR less then trump's first year in office)
and Trump ran it up 1,362 Trillion in his first Fiscal year
1.3 TRILLION !!
and Trump is doing this all in an economy that is and has been recovering for years and NOT in the worst recession ever.
The ONLY years Obama ran it up MORE then Trump has were in his First and 7th fiscal years.
and IF Trump keeps going this way he will by pass Obama in no time
have a nice night

 

[Tbird19482]

did you ever think that when Obama took office he took over the worst recession EVER?
Yes Obama took over the worst recession EVER from Bush and IF you have ever took any Economic courses you would know that it takes several YEARS to recover from something that bad.
And IF you took some time you would have found out that the economy does better under a Dem President then a Republican President
4 years of Trillion dollar deficits???
Lets see the deficit is added on to the Debt.
So in Obama's third Year in office he only had a 671 BILLION dollar debt
and seeing the deficit is part of what is added to the debt HOW could Obama have over 4 years of Trillion dollar deficits?
One other thing The Republicans have kept their LIE alive Obama did NOT double the debt or triple it or ran it up MORE then ALL his Predecessors combined
One more FACT by the Constitution the incoming President takes over the Budget and the debt on Oct 1 of the year he takes office
and on Oct 1 of 2009 the debt was 11.909,829,003,511.75 and IF Obama doubled it it would have been OVER 23 Trillion when Trump took over and it wasn't
For your info Trump has run the debt UP more in his FIRST year in office ( in a recovering economy NOT the worst Recession ever ) then Obama did in 6 out of the 8 years he was in office
Here is what Obama ran it up by year
1st year 1,651 Trillion dollars
2nd year 122.87 trillion dollars ( Fist year LESS then Trump, Trump has run it up 1,3 plus TRILLION dollars)
3rd year 1,265 Trillion dollars ( another year LESS then Trump)
4th year 671.9 BILLION dollars ( another year LESS then Trump)
5th year 1.085 Trillion Dollars ( fourth year LESS then Trump )
6th Year 326.5 BILLION dollars ( fifth year less then Trump )
7th year 1,422 Trillion dollars ( second year MORE hen Trump )
and Obama's 8th year in office it was 671 Billion dollars ( 6th YEAR less then trump's first year in office)
and Trump ran it up 1,362 Trillion in his first Fiscal year
1.3 TRILLION !!
and Trump is doing this all in an economy that is and has been recovering for years and NOT in the worst recession ever.
The ONLY years Obama ran it up MORE then Trump has were in his First and 7th fiscal years.
and IF Trump keeps going this way he will by pass Obama in no time
have a nice night

PS
so why did the debt go up so much when the Republicans had complete control of the Government in fiscal year 2018 then it did in 6 out of the 8 years Obama was in office
I thought Trump said we were in such a great economy, one of the best ever
If it was that good why did he run the debt up so much>?
have a nice night

 

[Tbird19482]

Right, what spending legislation did he sign off on that led to the 17% increase in the 2018 deficit, Trump's first budget year? Discretionary spending isn't the problem entitlement and debt service are. Where was your outrage over the 9.3 trillion Obama added to the debt?

Seems to me that you and the others tout the Obama reduction in the deficit during the last few years of his term so can you tell me what Congress does in that liberal world in which you live?

You seem to have that typical leftwing double standard and total ignorance of basic civics and how our gov't works

First of all Obama did NOT run the debt up 9.3 trillion dollars
He did NOT take over the budget/ debt till Oct 1 2009 and he ran it up till Oct 1 2017 NOT before or after
read the Constitution it is all in there.
YES Trumps first budget
Trump took over the budget and DEBT on Oct 1 2017 and anything that is a deficit or goes on the debt after Oct. 1 2017 is his till Oct 1 of the year the next President takes over.
and like you want to put part of Bush's debt on Obama when it was over a Trillion dollars by starting Obama's debt on the Day he took office and NOT on Oct 1 of the year he took office like the Constitution says and let Trump take over the debt on the day he took over when it was Obama's debt and it was only 885 BILLION dollars
( for the full fiscal year )
lets see the US Treasury says the debt went up 1,293,642,115,406.34 Trillion dollars from the day Obama took office and it was still under Bush's budget / bebt
and put 297,595,460,841.02 on to Trump when it was Obama's budget and debt
Yes take away the debt and budget responsibility from a Republican President when it is high and add it to a Dem
then take it away from a Dem president when it is low
again it says in the Constitution that the incoming President does NOT take over the responsibility for the budget / debt till Oct 1 of the year he takes office
SO lets make it fair put the budget/debt on Obama from Oct 1 2009 till Oct 1 2017 and Bush 8 years before that and Trump after that
have a nice night

 

[jonny5]

First of all Obama did NOT run the debt up 9.3 trillion dollars
He did NOT take over the budget/ debt till Oct 1 2009 and he ran it up till Oct 1 2017 NOT before or after
read the Constitution it is all in there.
YES Trumps first budget
Trump took over the budget and DEBT on Oct 1 2017 and anything that is a deficit or goes on the debt after Oct. 1 2017 is his till Oct 1 of the year the next President takes over.
and like you want to put part of Bush's debt on Obama when it was over a Trillion dollars by starting Obama's debt on the Day he took office and NOT on Oct 1 of the year he took office like the Constitution says and let Trump take over the debt on the day he took over when it was Obama's debt and it was only 885 BILLION dollars
( for the full fiscal year )
lets see the US Treasury says the debt went up 1,293,642,115,406.34 Trillion dollars from the day Obama took office and it was still under Bush's budget / bebt
and put 297,595,460,841.02 on to Trump when it was Obama's budget and debt
Yes take away the debt and budget responsibility from a Republican President when it is high and add it to a Dem
then take it away from a Dem president when it is low
again it says in the Constitution that the incoming President does NOT take over the responsibility for the budget / debt till Oct 1 of the year he takes office
SO lets make it fair put the budget/debt on Obama from Oct 1 2009 till Oct 1 2017 and Bush 8 years before that and Trump after that
have a nice night

Why dont we just be fair and blame everyone? The people who elect them, the democrats and republicans who keep increasing spending and doing nothing about of control social programs. Obama, Trump, congressional Dems and Reps ALL are responsible for writing and signing ever larger spending bills, and 22 trillion in debt.

And blaming doesnt reduce the debt in any case, so who cares? What are we going to do about it?

 

[Tbird19482]

Why dont we just be fair and blame everyone? The people who elect them, the democrats and republicans who keep increasing spending and doing nothing about of control social programs. Obama, Trump, congressional Dems and Reps ALL are responsible for writing and signing ever larger spending bills, and 22 trillion in debt.

And blaming doesnt reduce the debt in any case, so who cares? What are we going to do about it?

well I think there are several ways to get rid of the Federal debt
one would be have a min, tax on Corporations that make over say 10 Million in US profits
as it is now according to the GAO in 2017 42% of all large Corporations making over a million dollars in US profits paid NO US income taxes and they expect it to go up to 65% after Trumps tax cuts
Those taxes help pay for the Infrastructure they use to make their profits so why shouldn't they help pay for them.
Their large trucks do a number on the roads and some bridges
then ( and I think Conservative will like this one ) pass a bill so that we can have a national sales tax of 1% that would be dropped after it was paid off and have it strictly dedicated to be used ONLY to pay off the debt.
having a national sales tax would mean that everybody would have to pay it and as I said make it dedicated just for the debt and it would end after it was paid off
have a nice day

 

[Vadinho]

well I think there are several ways to get rid of the Federal debt
one would be have a min, tax on Corporations that make over say 10 Million in US profits
as it is now according to the GAO in 2017 42% of all large Corporations making over a million dollars in US profits paid NO US income taxes and they expect it to go up to 65% after Trumps tax cuts
Those taxes help pay for the Infrastructure they use to make their profits so why shouldn't they help pay for them.
Their large trucks do a number on the roads and some bridges
then ( and I think Conservative will like this one ) pass a bill so that we can have a national sales tax of 1% that would be dropped after it was paid off and have it strictly dedicated to be used ONLY to pay off the debt.
having a national sales tax would mean that everybody would have to pay it and as I said make it dedicated just for the debt and it would end after it was paid off
have a nice day

Or we could change the rules governing the Fed and retire it immediately with a keystroke.

 

[Tbird19482]

Or we could change the rules governing the Fed and retire it immediately with a keystroke.

Then how would you fund the SS system?
the SS system is the largest lender to the US government
The US Government owes the SS fund over 2 . 6 Trillion dollars more then China or anybody else
just writing it off would bankrupt the SS system in that one stroke of a pen and millions of people would have no money yo live on
have a nice day

 

[Vadinho]

Then how would you fund the SS system?
the SS system is the largest lender to the US government
The US Government owes the SS fund over 2 . 6 Trillion dollars more then China or anybody else
just writing it off would bankrupt the SS system in that one stroke of a pen and millions of people would have no money yo live on
have a nice day

That could be fixed with legislation.

 

[Tbird19482]

That could be fixed with legislation.

It could be but it wouldn't get rid of the whole debt
as I said the Government owes the SS system over 2.6 Trillion dollars
have a nice day

 

[Vadinho]

It could be but it wouldn't get rid of the whole debt
as I said the Government owes the SS system over 2.6 Trillion dollars
have a nice day

If the Treasury department can issue 22 trillion dollars worth of tbills, I am sure they can find a way to pay the fund 2.6 trillion dollars. Have a nice day.

 

[Conservative]

Cannot help notice but the entire Democratic Economic plan revolves around taxing the rich more and allowing illegals to vote never accepting the reality that there are consequences for higher taxes which NY is finding now

As residents flee New York'''s high taxes, state uses intrusive audits to get cash from defectors | Fox News

Also the little discussed provision of the tax reduction act is the capping of state and local taxes as a deduction from the federal return. that provision finally puts the cost of liberalism on the front page with state and local voters and is leading to what is happening all over the country now in high taxed Blue states

Cuomo, a vocal critic of President Trump, blamed congressional Republicans for passing tax reforms that reduced the state and local tax deduction Americans can take on their annual income tax forms -- meaning residents of high-tax blue states like New York have been feeling the pinch, sparking their exodus.

“This is the flip side. Tax the rich, tax the rich

 

[Tbird19482]

If the Treasury department can issue 22 trillion dollars worth of tbills, I am sure they can find a way to pay the fund 2.6 trillion dollars. Have a nice day.

yes just issue 22 Trillion dollars in Tbills?
aren't you just issuing more Tbills to just cover what we already have?
The Government has already borrowed over 2.6 trillion from the SS system and all you are doing is borrowing more to pay off what we already have
what we have to do is have a balanced budget amendment that has some teeth to it
Make it where the Government can NOT spend more then they take ,
except in case of a war like WW2 or a great depression.
and seeing that most everybody over the years has benefited from us running up the debt
pass a law so that we can have a federal sales tax ( of say 1% ) that would be strictly dedicated to paying off the debt and NOTHING else and it would be ended when the debt was paid off
We have to make our tax code fair to everybody even Billion dollar corps
as of now over 42% of all large Corporations pay NOTHING in US income taxes and the bill for the infrastructure they use to make their profits falls on the hard working class tax payers
I don't know about you but I am retired and on SS and I do NOT like paying more in US income taxes then a large Corporation making Millions if NOT Billions in US profits .
GE has done this for years and Amazon just made ( what was it ?) 11 Billion in profits and did NOT pay even one cent in US income taxes
as I said I do not think it is fair that people like me who are retired and on SS are paying MORE then they do
They use the infrastructure those taxes pay for to make their profits so why shouldn't they help pay for them
have a nice day

 

[Vadinho]

yes just issue 22 Trillion dollars in Tbills?
aren't you just issuing more Tbills to just cover what we already have?
The Government has already borrowed over 2.6 trillion from the SS system and all you are doing is borrowing more to pay off what we already have
what we have to do is have a balanced budget amendment that has some teeth to it
Make it where the Government can NOT spend more then they take ,
except in case of a war like WW2 or a great depression.
and seeing that most everybody over the years has benefited from us running up the debt
pass a law so that we can have a federal sales tax ( of say 1% ) that would be strictly dedicated to paying off the debt and NOTHING else and it would be ended when the debt was paid off
We have to make our tax code fair to everybody even Billion dollar corps
as of now over 42% of all large Corporations pay NOTHING in US income taxes and the bill for the infrastructure they use to make their profits falls on the hard working class tax payers
I don't know about you but I am retired and on SS and I do NOT like paying more in US income taxes then a large Corporation making Millions if NOT Billions in US profits .
GE has done this for years and Amazon just made ( what was it ?) 11 Billion in profits and did NOT pay even one cent in US income taxes
as I said I do not think it is fair that people like me who are retired and on SS are paying MORE then they do
They use the infrastructure those taxes pay for to make their profits so why shouldn't they help pay for them
have a nice day

What is the benefit from having a balanced budget? There really is none except to make some people feel better.

 

[Conservative]

What is the benefit from having a balanced budget? There really is none except to make some people feel better.

Don't know about you but I hate paying debt service as the money could be better used in the hands of the taxpayers

 

[Vadinho]

Don't know about you but I hate paying debt service as the money could be better used in the hands of the taxpayers

It is paid to taxpayers most of all the interest goes right back into our hands. You do understand who owns the majority of our debt right? All of us. Like I keep telling you day after day, the debt represents the amount of services we want from government but are unwilling to pay for through taxation. Why that bothers you is a problem you should take up with your shrink.

 

[justabubba]

Don't know about you but I hate paying debt service as the money could be better used in the hands of the taxpayers

now that is as profound as acknowledging that a credit card user hates paying interest because that money could be used to buy other things

 

[Conservative]

It is paid to taxpayers most of all the interest goes right back into our hands. You do understand who owns the majority of our debt right? All of us. Like I keep telling you day after day, the debt represents the amount of services we want from government but are unwilling to pay for through taxation. Why that bothers you is a problem you should take up with your shrink.

Really so foreign governments that hold the debt are taxpayers? How about U.S. T bill holders, how do you know they are taxpayers since approximately 50% of income earners don't pay FIT?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[Conservative]

now that is as profound as acknowledging that a credit card user hates paying interest because that money could be used to buy other things

So you have a problem with that statement? Explains a lot about you. How does interest on your debt benefit you and your family?

 

[Tbird19482]

What is the benefit from having a balanced budget? There really is none except to make some people feel better.

Well with a balanced budget law that forces you to NOT spend more then you take in except during a war like WWII or a depression and that would help keep the debt from increasing and if we had a one percent sales tax that would be used for paying down the debt and only the debt and would be taken off after it was paid off everybody would be paying it and we could get rid of the debt and the interest we have to pay on it
and with the sales tax even the poor would be paying it , so would the large Corporations and everybody would pay for it
we all benefited from it so we all should help pay it off
in doing this the SS system should be allowed to take the money that is in the fund and invest it in safe bonds and earn a higher ROR and that would help keep it afloat.
so A strict balanced budget amendment would help us stop running up the debt and we could pay it off with the sales tax and then we would not have to keep paying interest on it to the SS system and other countries
have a nice day

 

[justabubba]

So you have a problem with that statement? Explains a lot about you. How does interest on your debt benefit you and your family?

go for it. what does it explain?

 

[Vadinho]

Well with a balanced budget law that forces you to NOT spend more then you take in except during a war like WWII or a depression and that would help keep the debt from increasing and if we had a one percent sales tax that would be used for paying down the debt and only the debt and would be taken off after it was paid off everybody would be paying it and we could get rid of the debt and the interest we have to pay on it
and with the sales tax even the poor would be paying it , so would the large Corporations and everybody would pay for it
we all benefited from it so we all should help pay it off
in doing this the SS system should be allowed to take the money that is in the fund and invest it in safe bonds and earn a higher ROR and that would help keep it afloat.
so A strict balanced budget amendment would help us stop running up the debt and we could pay it off with the sales tax and then we would not have to keep paying interest on it to the SS system and other countries
have a nice day

It appears that you believe the debt can be paid off through some form of taxation. We are way beyond that remedy now given the relationship between total debt and GDP. We can never run out of our own money. For every dollar in excess of tax revenues the government spends, our GDP increases by some factor of that excess spending. Macro is not the same as micro, the US government is not a household or even a state. As for balancing the budget, that is impossible because it is very difficult to predict tax revenues accurately, it is very difficult to run the government by zero based budgets and the government has spending needs every day of the year that will demand borrowing to continue even if that borrowing is short term. So let us say that we did have a balanced budget. When exactly do you react to a shortfall of funds? Every month? Every day? Once a year?

 

[Tbird19482]

It appears that you believe the debt can be paid off through some form of taxation. We are way beyond that remedy now given the relationship between total debt and GDP. We can never run out of our own money. For every dollar in excess of tax revenues the government spends, our GDP increases by some factor of that excess spending. Macro is not the same as micro, the US government is not a household or even a state. As for balancing the budget, that is impossible because it is very difficult to predict tax revenues accurately, it is very difficult to run the government by zero based budgets and the government has spending needs every day of the year that will demand borrowing to continue even if that borrowing is short term. So let us say that we did have a balanced budget. When exactly do you react to a shortfall of funds? Every month? Every day? Once a year?

for one thing our tax laws have to be changed When a hard working middle class taxpayer pays more in US income taxes then a large Corporation that is making Billions of dollars in US profits and using the infrastructure that those income taxes pay for ( in 2017 42% of all large Corps didn't pay a cent in US income taxes and it is expected to go up to 65% under Trumps tax cut ) is not right
we need to have a tax system so that they pay for what they use, Infrastructure and so forth. ( a min. income tax on large Corporations with no tax subsidies ) it is a fact that everything you buy has gone by truck driven on highways that those taxes paid for.
Again we can not keep spending more money then we take in
it is getting beyond sustainable by paying off the debt we would not be paying billions of dollars in interest and that money could then be used to fund the non mandatory programs
Yes a large part of the interest we pay does go to the SS fund seeing they are the biggest lender to the US government but by putting the money that is in the SS fund into secure bonds it could get a larger ROI then what the Government is paying them. and we wouldn't be paying interest to countries like China all we are doing now is help funding their Government
If I remember right if Bush had not pushed through his tax cut and kept the government on the same track we would have had the debt paid off by now
Another thing we have mandatory programs that the fed has to fund we know what they are and how much they cost last year so give them a cost of living type increase say 2 or 3% ( argumentative it might be just point 5 percent who knows what the Cost of living will be at that time ) a year if necessary and they would be funded and any other program that is not mandatory would have to split up what is left.
and if they have to make cuts in those programs so be it.
In any instance we have to cut our spending and the debt it is getting beyond sustainable
Fact is we have to do something
have a nice afternoon

 

[jonny5]

well I think there are several ways to get rid of the Federal debt
one would be have a min, tax on Corporations that make over say 10 Million in US profits
as it is now according to the GAO in 2017 42% of all large Corporations making over a million dollars in US profits paid NO US income taxes and they expect it to go up to 65% after Trumps tax cuts
Those taxes help pay for the Infrastructure they use to make their profits so why shouldn't they help pay for them.
Their large trucks do a number on the roads and some bridges
then ( and I think Conservative will like this one ) pass a bill so that we can have a national sales tax of 1% that would be dropped after it was paid off and have it strictly dedicated to be used ONLY to pay off the debt.
having a national sales tax would mean that everybody would have to pay it and as I said make it dedicated just for the debt and it would end after it was paid off
have a nice day

I already paid for infrastructure in my income tax. No need for me to collect it again from my customers. Furthermore such a corporate tax wouldnt even put a dent in the deficit, and thus wouldnt not pay off a cent of the debt. If you took 100% of Apples profit, it would woulnt even pay for a week worth of just the deficit. What else ya got?