Defiance

[ataraxia]

It is not defiance..

The evangelical community support a womaniser because they can manipulate him to do their bidding to achieve what they want... the second coming of Jesus. This group is in fact winning big time at the moment, as the US is promoting a new war in the Middle East that could wipe out the Jews, which is the goal for the Evangelical community since that is one of the conditions of the second coming of Jesus according to their warped religion.

The remaining Christian community are using Trump to get abortion and Womens rights banned... something they have been fighting for since the forever and it is working somewhat.

Parts of the working class American supports him because to be brutally frank.. they are stupid enough to believe his bull****. They fear their jobs, and believe that he can save them because they have not done their homework on him. This group is now realising that he is a con man and are fleeing him in droves if studies and polls are correct. The inability of Trump to keep his word on this part, will hurt him big time in the 2020 election, just as it did in the 2018 election.. and it will only get worse.

The Patriotic angle is interesting because it is solely based on a sub-group that have heavy links to the far right and Neo Nazi/White Nationalist movement. Now these unpatriotic fanatics see Trump as the way to promote their racist views and make American Grea.. I mean White again. The surge in Neo Nazi scum parading around in the open and committing terror is due to them having one of their own in the White House.

And then there are the biggest winners so far.. the ultra rich conservatives, who have gotten through tax cuts and more loopholes for themselves and impoverishing the rest of the population even more.

So in conclusion, it is not about defiance.. it is about sleeping with the devil and using Trump and his goons to get what the fringes of society have wanted for decades. Trump symbolises all the worst parts of American society and those parts have gathered in the GOP to push their agenda no matter what the consequences are. Before the GOP candidate only represented one of the above.. the tax cuts part and a bit of the abortion crap, but now in Trump the ultimate candidate that fits pretty much any box (because he is so stupid and corrupt) and is willing to push through even the most insane legislation.

Wow. Great post. Talk about saying it like it is. These Trump supporters like the idea of lack of manners and civility and just being brutally honest. You just put it all out there. Brutally honest, saying it like it is.

 

[trouble13]

I think the central motivation of the Trump presidency is defiance, and has been all along. What he actually does or says is secondary to the feeling of defiance.

And that defiance is what liberal/progressives hate most about him and his supporters. L/Ps generally feel they have life figured out, and their central motive is to get everyone to follow along with their Truth.

There are several different reasons that some Americans don't want to jump on the L/P bandwagon, and they have formed several defiant groups.

L/Ps get very confused when they see, for example, a born again Christian supporting a womanizer. Or a working class American supporting a guy who was born rich. Or a patriotic American supporting a draft dodger. What they fail to consider is the defiance element, that draws all these diverse people together, united against the L/Ps.

Trump is the essence of defiance. This is what has been forcing me to like him in spite of myself. The more the L/Ps despise him and are confused by him, the more I can't help liking him. It's crazy. But it's the defiance. Who the fork are you to tell me what to think? Who the fork died and appointed you God? Whatever you say, I will believe the opposite because you don't know sheet.

This is all mostly subconscious. But I think this is going on in millions of Americans' souls.

I think there is at least a grain of validity in your thesis. People who do not want to go down the path of progressivism dont like it being forced on them. My personal o servation is that progressives demand things from others but show very little willingness to compromise and in turn theres a growing sentiment by people to not compromise with them either.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[snakestretcher]

I think the central motivation of the Trump presidency is defiance, and has been all along. What he actually does or says is secondary to the feeling of defiance.

And that defiance is what liberal/progressives hate most about him and his supporters. L/Ps generally feel they have life figured out, and their central motive is to get everyone to follow along with their Truth.

There are several different reasons that some Americans don't want to jump on the L/P bandwagon, and they have formed several defiant groups.

L/Ps get very confused when they see, for example, a born again Christian supporting a womanizer. Or a working class American supporting a guy who was born rich. Or a patriotic American supporting a draft dodger. What they fail to consider is the defiance element, that draws all these diverse people together, united against the L/Ps.

Trump is the essence of defiance. This is what has been forcing me to like him in spite of myself. The more the L/Ps despise him and are confused by him, the more I can't help liking him. It's crazy. But it's the defiance. Who the fork are you to tell me what to think? Who the fork died and appointed you God? Whatever you say, I will believe the opposite because you don't know sheet.

This is all mostly subconscious. But I think this is going on in millions of Americans' souls.

Ridiculous. Every damn day Trump tells his fans what to think and what to believe-including the most absurdly transparent lies and fabrication.

 

[ataraxia]

I think there is at least a grain of validity in your thesis. People who do not want to go down the path of progressivism dont like it being forced on them. My personal o servation is that progressives demand things from others but show very little willingness to compromise and in turn theres a growing sentiment by people to not compromise with them either.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

What is it about progressivism against which there is such resistance? Rights for women? Gay rights? Rights for minorities? That peoples poverty not always be treated as a moral failure and just dismissed? Responsibility for our environment?

I think what this is it’s about people who feel they are losing a certain perceived advantage and cultural hegemony based on some cultural identities (race, sex, religion,etc...). They want to maintain that position of advantage. IOW, they feel that having a more equitable and just society would end up hurting and disadvantaging them, so they want to have nothing to do with it. They would rather have no society it all in one where they are not in a position of it to church they would rather destroy and have no society at all than have one where they are not in a position of advantage.

 

[trouble13]

In other words, you like being "tribal", and if it divides the nation from "actual Americans" into "Red/Blue tribes" and canonizes "defiance", you're A-Okay with it.

Actually, I'm not okay with it. I preferred when we all considered ourselves first and foremost as Americans, and our elected officials put the good of the country above their petty partisan squabbles.

I dont consider the differences people have yo be petty.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Rickeroo]

I think the central motivation of the Trump presidency is defiance, and has been all along. What he actually does or says is secondary to the feeling of defiance.

And that defiance is what liberal/progressives hate most about him and his supporters. L/Ps generally feel they have life figured out, and their central motive is to get everyone to follow along with their Truth.

There are several different reasons that some Americans don't want to jump on the L/P bandwagon, and they have formed several defiant groups.

L/Ps get very confused when they see, for example, a born again Christian supporting a womanizer. Or a working class American supporting a guy who was born rich. Or a patriotic American supporting a draft dodger. What they fail to consider is the defiance element, that draws all these diverse people together, united against the L/Ps.

Trump is the essence of defiance. This is what has been forcing me to like him in spite of myself. The more the L/Ps despise him and are confused by him, the more I can't help liking him. It's crazy. But it's the defiance. Who the fork are you to tell me what to think? Who the fork died and appointed you God? Whatever you say, I will believe the opposite because you don't know sheet.

This is all mostly subconscious. But I think this is going on in millions of Americans' souls.

I agree. I voted for Trump primarily because I knew he would rail against our 'fair' and 'unbiased' media, which I despise. He's exceeded my expectations.

 

[trouble13]

What is it about progressivism against which there is such resistance? Rights for women? Gay rights? Rights for minorities? That peoples poverty not always be treated as a moral failure and just dismissed? Responsibility for our environment?

I think what this is it’s about people who feel they are losing a certain perceived advantage and cultural hegemony based on some cultural identities (race, sex, religion,etc...). They want to maintain that position of advantage. IOW, they feel that having a more equitable and just society would end up hurting and disadvantaging them, so they want to have nothing to do with it. They would rather have no society it all in one where they are not in a position of it to church they would rather destroy and have no society at all than have one where they are not in a position of advantage.

I get it, anyone not on board with the progressive agenda suffers from some form of unacceptable bigotry so theres no reason to compromise with those immoral people. Progressives afterall, occupy the moral high ground, the rest of us should just shut up and be grateful for their divine guidance.

Did i get it about right?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Master Debator]

I think the central motivation of the Trump presidency is defiance, and has been all along. What he actually does or says is secondary to the feeling of defiance.

And that defiance is what liberal/progressives hate most about him and his supporters. L/Ps generally feel they have life figured out, and their central motive is to get everyone to follow along with their Truth.

There are several different reasons that some Americans don't want to jump on the L/P bandwagon, and they have formed several defiant groups.

L/Ps get very confused when they see, for example, a born again Christian supporting a womanizer. Or a working class American supporting a guy who was born rich. Or a patriotic American supporting a draft dodger. What they fail to consider is the defiance element, that draws all these diverse people together, united against the L/Ps.

Trump is the essence of defiance. This is what has been forcing me to like him in spite of myself. The more the L/Ps despise him and are confused by him, the more I can't help liking him. It's crazy. But it's the defiance. Who the fork are you to tell me what to think? Who the fork died and appointed you God? Whatever you say, I will believe the opposite because you don't know sheet.

This is all mostly subconscious. But I think this is going on in millions of Americans' souls.

Is there some great confusion over Trump being the last gasp of the angry white man? I thought everyone was pretty clear on that. :shrug:

 

[Idiometer]

Trump is the essence of defiance.

Defiance of what, exactly? He certainly defies logic and reason, not to mention truth. Kind of like your post here.

 

[Idiometer]

The liberal/progressive inspire defiance. You don't see how you caused it.

Explain it to us, then. So far, you make no sense.

 

[Irwin Corey]

… the Trump presidency is defiance, and has been all along ... What he actually does or says is secondary to the feeling of defiance.

… that defiance is what liberal/progressives hate most about him and his supporters ...

L/Ps generally feel they have life figured out, and their central motive is to get everyone to follow along with their Truth.

There are several different reasons that some Americans don't want to jump on the L/P bandwagon, and they have formed several defiant groups.

L/Ps get very confused when they see, for example, a born again Christian supporting a womanizer. Or a working class American supporting a guy who was born rich. Or a patriotic American supporting a draft dodger. What they fail to consider is the defiance element, that draws all these diverse people together, united against the L/Ps.

Trump is the essence of defiance. This is what has been forcing me to like him in spite of myself. The more the L/Ps despise him and are confused by him, the more I can't help liking him. It's crazy. But it's the defiance. Who the fork are you to tell me what to think? Who the fork died and appointed you God? Whatever you say, I will believe the opposite because you don't know sheet.

This is all mostly subconscious. But I think this is going on in millions of Americans' souls.

You can't argue that defiance is a huge part of the tRump allure. But, as President, what he says and does matters, his opinions and actions affect the world economy, our economy, how are allies value that alliance and how AmerCANs view themselves. When his "in your face" defiance becomes a divisive lightning rod between AmeriCANs that is exactly the opposite of what a President should do. It's the President's job to bring the country together not split it apart and have us tearing at each others throats.

I don't know ANY L/P, as you put it, that hates ANY AmeriCAN. And, no, we don't have life figured out, BUT, we ARE patriots … JUST … LIKE … YOU (I'm assuming)!

It's more than apparent that … tRumps followers … have formed up in defiance, but I disagree that they really know what they are defying. I can tell what the headlines are at Blightbart, Faux and Lush by what's posted here, and those people make a living pedaling hate. I know you don't like to hear that but it's true, without their (and, OK, MSNBC's) divisiveness within 6 months the rhetoric would tone down and AmeriCANs would be Americans and not right or left … so much.

We aren't confused, we are REPULSED by a man that breaks all the rules Americans have been told to live by, we are REPULSED by a president that has the personality and life style of a CON-MAN, we are REPULSED by a man that thinks he's above our laws, we are REPULSED by a leader that doesn't want to lead .. ALL … OF … US.

tRump is the essence of the anthesis everything that America has stood for since our founding. And, again, that doesn't "confuse" us it is REPULISIVE, as it should be. No one want's to be told what to think, what we need is a LEADER that can bring us together to think together to KEEP America Great! Our god is a universal God as the Constitution encourages, my god is not your god and your god is not necessarily the god other Americans believe in. That we believe in God and ask for his guidance is what AmeriCANs do. I believe if you met me on the street we would get a long fine, but here where I'm an L/P and your a tRump supporter … I'm sure you believe I don't know ****.

Maybe it's subconscious, but certainly conditioned divisiveness that WILL destroy us if we can't come together as COUNTRYMEN, as AmeriCANs. And Donald tRump IS the LEADER of the PROBLEM, not the LEADER of the SOLUTION.

 

[Idiometer]

The Taliban was the government of Afghanistan and supported Al Q, which was based in Afghanistan.

We didn't hold private citizens responsible in Afghanistan. We held a government responsible for its actions.

I thought we held Osama bin Laden responsible for 9/11.

:fyi:

The bin Laden family is very close to the House of Saud, including marriage ties over several generations. And how are the Saudis helping us fight terrorism? Seems to me all they're doing is serving their own interests by fighting a proxy war against Iran in Yemen, causing famine and the slaughter of thousands of innocents. And we're helping them. Shameful, IMO.

 

[snakestretcher]

I get it, anyone not on board with the progressive agenda suffers from some form of unacceptable bigotry so theres no reason to compromise with those immoral people. Progressives afterall, occupy the moral high ground, the rest of us should just shut up and be grateful for their divine guidance.

Did i get it about right?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Yes, that's about it. On this forum the most profound bigotry and racism stems from the conservative 'christian', right.

 

[OlNate]

I think the central motivation of the Trump presidency is defiance, and has been all along. What he actually does or says is secondary to the feeling of defiance.

And that defiance is what liberal/progressives hate most about him and his supporters. L/Ps generally feel they have life figured out, and their central motive is to get everyone to follow along with their Truth.

There are several different reasons that some Americans don't want to jump on the L/P bandwagon, and they have formed several defiant groups.

L/Ps get very confused when they see, for example, a born again Christian supporting a womanizer. Or a working class American supporting a guy who was born rich. Or a patriotic American supporting a draft dodger. What they fail to consider is the defiance element, that draws all these diverse people together, united against the L/Ps.

Trump is the essence of defiance. This is what has been forcing me to like him in spite of myself. The more the L/Ps despise him and are confused by him, the more I can't help liking him. It's crazy. But it's the defiance. Who the fork are you to tell me what to think? Who the fork died and appointed you God? Whatever you say, I will believe the opposite because you don't know sheet.

This is all mostly subconscious. But I think this is going on in millions of Americans' souls.

In other words, it really was all just about flipping the other side off.

Wow.

Well, gotta give credit where credit is due, you guys sure don't half ass assholery. Bravo.

 

[Casper]

I get it, anyone not on board with the progressive agenda suffers from some form of unacceptable bigotry so theres no reason to compromise with those immoral people. Progressives afterall, occupy the moral high ground, the rest of us should just shut up and be grateful for their divine guidance.

Did i get it about right?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Isn't that pretty much where trump and his supporters stand, either get on board or shut up.
Interesting the OP speaks of defiance as their stand but demonize this that stand in defiance against trump and his policies, the double standard is glaring.
As for compromise, our government is based on it to operate properly and without it we in truth have no government. We the People need to hold those that refuse to perform their jobs accountable in the next election by putting the good of the Nation over the good for a Party or a Person.

 

[OlNate]

I agree. I voted for Trump primarily because I knew he would rail against our 'fair' and 'unbiased' media, which I despise. He's exceeded my expectations.

YA RIGHT... You didn't even know you had issues with your media, before Trump told you you did... :lamo

 

[Trump]

In other words, you like being "tribal", and if it divides the nation from "actual Americans" into "Red/Blue tribes" and canonizes "defiance", you're A-Okay with it.

Actually, I'm not okay with it. I preferred when we all considered ourselves first and foremost as Americans, and our elected officials put the good of the country above their petty partisan squabbles.

if Dems stopped acting like A-Holes so much attacking GOP claiming they're racist Nazi's bible thumpers maybe more GOP would engage in dialogue....but the constant drum beat turns sane people off and disengage....imho

 

[OlNate]

:applaud

Well said.

Ignore the attempts to twist this into a negative, it is really a very insightful summation.

The Left constantly attacks, seeks to undermine and diminish, label and ostracize, demonize by any means necessary those who don't kowtow to their ways of thinking...yet we remain defiant.

A very insightful summation? Or a comforting affirmation? Are you actually suggesting that it is all the fault of the Left, as in the OP? You going for the whole Billy Joel, We Didn't Start the Fire thing?

Sorry, friend, but that's sure AF not how it looked from up here... :shrug:

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

The Taliban was the government of Afghanistan and supported Al Q, which was based in Afghanistan.

We didn't hold private citizens responsible in Afghanistan. We held a government responsible for its actions.

You've got it backwards. The question was, "When did we start holding governments responsible for the actions of a citizen"

 

[ocean515]

Not all righties are victims.

I would think this website proves this by the minute.

 

[OlNate]

I would think this website proves this by the minute.

Mmm....actually, I think this website proves the opposite... cranky people in perpetual tantrum state on both sides are overrepresented here.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Maybe some mayor of a backwoods town supported a radical cleric that had something to do with it. Maybe. So what? He doesn't represent the government of Saudi. And the government of Saudi has no interest in supporting him. He's dead.

So your hysteria is based on a meaningless "possibility".

You can't blame the Saudi government. Not with facts.

There are no "mayors" of towns in the Kingdom. There are no elections. The royal family IS the "government" and they hand pick local leadership. The Kingdom is an absolute monarchy.

And the government of Saudi has no interest in supporting him. He's dead.

What planet are we on right now? Are we on Bizarro World?
What does death have to do with anything?
Kim Jong Il is dead, but you're saying there's no support for him because he died?
You're not making rational observations on this at all.

The point is, there was a majority amount of support for the concept of attacking the United States AND ALL Western "infidel" countries based on the notion that our mere presence in the Kingdom and any projection of Western power IN the Kingdom OR in any land believed by the Ummah to be essential to the waqf and caliphate was considered to be an affront of the highest order by Wahhabist fundamentalist clerics and their jihadi apparatus.

These are points which were SPELLED OUT almost VERBATIM by UBL and repeatedly by his seconds, both in the runup to and in the aftermath of the attacks, and these islamist talking points reverberated to wide support throughout the Kingdom AND BEYOND, to the entire Arab Muslim community worldwide.
The House of Saud did little to nothing to suppress any of it, and there are reasons for that decision as well, and if you possess any understanding of the history of the House of Saud and the historic balance of power in the Kingdom, you would understand why.

This does not boil down to a question of "blame" but rather, accountability. The Saudis cannot be trusted to contain security for nuclear weapons technology and Donald Trump may very well be long gone by the time a nuclear attack is visited upon Western interests due to Saudi malfeasance or simply due to lax duty of care to safeguard what may well be regarded by islamists as the ultimate weapon against us.
The amount of mental gymnastics required to defend the idea of gifting nukes to Saudis is immeasurable and I question the motivation of anyone who tries. Like I said, the idea is pure madness.

I'm not even a conservative and I understand this, because conservatives, at least ones outside the Trump sphere, do understand this.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

And yet you turn around and post this:



Tribalism. "They" are bad; "we" are good. They are "blue"; we are "red". You are entitled to call it whatever you wish; it is, however, tribalism. Own it.

OTHERING and dehumanization. No wonder she calls herself G4N.
When someone tells you who they are, believe them.

 

[ataraxia]

I get it, anyone not on board with the progressive agenda suffers from some form of unacceptable bigotry so theres no reason to compromise with those immoral people. Progressives afterall, occupy the moral high ground, the rest of us should just shut up and be grateful for their divine guidance.

Did i get it about right?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

You just cussed a lot. There is nothing your post to get right or wrong. You did not explain which of those specific progressive positions you so strongly disagree with.

 

[What if...?]

The liberal/progressive inspire defiance. You don't see how you caused it.

I do.

Because I can tell where you get your information by the things you repeat.