Dear Bernie, Meet the "Big Mac ATM" That Will Replace...$15/hr. Fast Food Workers

[DA60]

'Dear Bernie, as you continue in your never-ending "Fight for $15", we thought you might benefit from a simple example of how economics work in a real life, functioning, capitalistic society. You see, Bernie, labor, much like your daily serving of crunchy granola, is just another "good" that businesses can choose to consume more or less of, depending on price. And, just to be crystal clear, when the price of labor (i.e. wages) increases, businesses tend to consume less of it. Finally, our dearest Bernie, when misinformed politicians radically disrupt labor markets by setting artificially high base prices, like your proposed $15 federal minimum wage, then businesses simply stop consuming labor completely and instead replace that labor with this "Big Mac ATM Machine."'

Dear Bernie, Meet the "Big Mac ATM" That Will Replace All Of Your $15 Per Hour Fast Food Workers | Zero Hedge


Thoughts?

 

[DA60]

I love it.

I would FAR rather a machine fixed my fast food then some human who might have the flu, spit on it or god-knows-what-else on it. Plus, I do not have to deal with fast food workers and their fake smiles and fake greetings OR their attitude (no matter how friendly you are to them) because they hate their degrading jobs (no matter what the pay).

With the above machine - I just pay my money, hit the appropriate button and out comes my fast food. Probably as good or better than when humans make it.



Also, this is what happens when the government starts determining what people should be paid...they often get replaced with automation.

Get used to it...because if $15/hr. becomes a national law anytime in the near future...you will see a LOT more of these machines...GUARANTEED.

 

[Phys251]

What exactly does this have to do with Bernie Sanders or the minimum wage? Automation has been in the works for years now, and no political party is going to be able to stop it.

And furthermore, what's your deal with fast food workers? They're just human beings trying to make a living, typically off a wage that may not even be enough to pay the bills.

 

[louisbrent13]

nicely put, but it's the thought that counts, you got to love Bernie for that


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DA60]

What exactly does this have to do with Bernie Sanders or the minimum wage? Automation has been in the works for years now, and no political party is going to be able to stop it.

Are you saying that automation will not accelerate if wages go up too high, too fast? CEO after CEO has stated - even in private emails - that mass automation will result if $15/hour goes national.
It is simply more cost effective to automate than pay their workers $15/hr.. If it wasn't, these machines would never exist in America en masse.
And the technology to do the above has been around for decades. Look at Japan, they have vending machines for almost EVERYTHING...have for decades. This is not new technology.
WHy only now are they starting to pop up in America? Because only now are they becoming financially viable to American corporations do to high worker earnings.

14 Cool Vending Machines from Japan

https://www.buzzfeed.com/arielknuts...-believe-exist?utm_term=.vnwo3e7ML#.cy526mKYg

And furthermore, what's your deal with fast food workers? They're just human beings trying to make a living, typically off a wage that may not even be enough to pay the bills.

Nothing...but the job is degrading. I have never done it, but I know many who have and they all HATED IT. Boring, degrading, dehumanizing, regimented, often hot (if you are in the kitchen), repetitive...they are LOUSY jobs.
The faster automation can replace them, the better for humanity.

 

[Chomsky]

'Dear Bernie, as you continue in your never-ending "Fight for $15", we thought you might benefit from a simple example of how economics work in a real life, functioning, capitalistic society. You see, Bernie, labor, much like your daily serving of crunchy granola, is just another "good" that businesses can choose to consume more or less of, depending on price. And, just to be crystal clear, when the price of labor (i.e. wages) increases, businesses tend to consume less of it. Finally, our dearest Bernie, when misinformed politicians radically disrupt labor markets by setting artificially high base prices, like your proposed $15 federal minimum wage, then businesses simply stop consuming labor completely and instead replace that labor with this "Big Mac ATM Machine."'

Dear Bernie, Meet the "Big Mac ATM" That Will Replace All Of Your $15 Per Hour Fast Food Workers | Zero Hedge


Thoughts?

Total B.S. that's been throughly debunked, and no - businesses do not "consume labor"! :lamo

 

[DA60]

Total B.S. that's been throughly debunked, and no - businesses do not "consume labor"! :lamo

And your link to UNBIASED, FACTUAL proof of this 'thorough debunking' is?

Not opinions...UNBIASED, FACTUAL PROOF.

 

[Phys251]

Are you saying that automation will not accelerate if wages go up too high, too fast? CEO after CEO has stated - even in private emails - that mass automation will result if $15/hour goes national.
It is simply more cost effective to automate than pay their workers $15/hr.. If it wasn't, these machines would never exist in America en masse.
And the technology to do the above has been around for decades. Look at Japan, they have vending machines for almost EVERYTHING...have for decades. This is not new technology.
WHy only now are they starting to pop up in America? Because only now are they becoming financially viable to American corporations do to high worker earnings.

14 Cool Vending Machines from Japan

https://www.buzzfeed.com/arielknuts...-believe-exist?utm_term=.vnwo3e7ML#.cy526mKYg

That's absurd. You could pay workers three bucks an hour and automation would still become a thing. And NOBODY can live on three bucks an hour.

Automation is coming. Whether it will take over during the reign of President Trump or a future president (assuming we have one, but that's a discussion for another time) is a question that remains to be seen. And I'll tell you this much, if it happens under Trump, get ready for a backlash from the very workers who voted for him like we have not seen in decades.

Nothing...but the job is degrading. I have never done it, but I know many who have and they all HATED IT. Boring, degrading, dehumanizing, regimented, often hot (if you are in the kitchen), repetitive...they are LOUSY jobs.
The faster automation can replace them, the better for humanity.

I go to fast food restaurants with regularity, and you know what? I treat them with respect. And you know what else? Shockingly, amazingly, they seem to return the favor!

 

[DA60]

That's absurd. You could pay workers three bucks an hour and automation would still become a thing. And NOBODY can live on three bucks an hour.

Automation is coming. Whether it will take over during the reign of President Trump or a future president (assuming we have one, but that's a discussion for another time) is a question that remains to be seen. And I'll tell you this much, if it happens under Trump, get ready for a backlash from the very workers who voted for him like we have not seen in decades.

Fine...than prove to me with links to UNBIASED, FACTUAL PROOF that the above machines being introduced have NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with rising labor costs and I will retract my statement.
Remember please...not opinions or theories...unbiased, factual proof.

I go to fast food restaurants with regularity, and you know what? I treat them with respect. And you know what else? Shockingly, amazingly, they seem to return the favor!

What a staggeringly arrogant thing to say. You just seem to look down your nose at everyone who does not agree with you - don't you? I have seen you do it regularly...it's pathetic. And it does not further your cause - though it probably furthers your ego. People that condescend to others make me sick.

When did I say I do not treat everyone with respect...no matter what they do (because I believe no one is better than anyone else - just different). Also, I am not a fool. If someone is making my food, you are damn right I am going to be extra nice to them just so they don't spit on it (which, btw, they do sometimes - my friends who worked their tell me they do). Only an idiot is rude to someone in a fast food place.

And if you are saying that every fast food worker you have ever met is friendly - then you are either lying or you are blind.

And I do not blame them one little bit for being curt or looking bored...they are TERRIBLE JOBS. If I was stuck doing those ****ty jobs, I would get fed up after a while as well...no matter what they paid me (within reason).

Would you want to work at a fast food restaurant for years and years (even if it paid you $15/hour)...yes or no?

By the way, if you say 'yes' - you are either lying, have no idea what it is like to work at one OR have incredibly low standards.


Oh...and a little advice. stop acting so high and mighty and always assuming that just because someone does not agree with you on a subject that this automatically means they are rude or obnoxious people or treat everyone one tiny bit worse than you do.

:roll:

 

[Chomsky]

And your link to UNBIASED, FACTUAL proof of this 'thorough debunking' is?

Not opinions...UNBIASED, FACTUAL PROOF.

Firstly, to think business entities purchase labor based upon price (wages), shows a fundamental lacking in understanding of the economics of labor.

Labor is a demand function, not a consumer item. Businesses hire labor based upon demand. If they need more - they hire more; if they need less - they hire less. The demand is relatively inelastic to wages (though there is *some* elasticity). If there is no demand, lowering wages will not stimulate hiring. Not at all. But that's what the author of your article errantly claims. He is thinking in terms of consumer demand, which can be stimulated by lowering prices.

For factual proof, one only needs to examine the effects of the $15 min wage where it's currently practiced. Seattle is one place. I suggest you do a little research and educate yourself.

Here a quick link, I just Googled for you:

So far, the Seattle minimum-wage increase is doing what it’s supposed to do

But I urge you to find more for yourself. Not doom & gloom predictions into the future, but find the actual data after a year or two of 15 dollar min wage. I suspect you'll be quite surprised, and never look at your previous source (or others like it) the same way again.

 

[DA60]

Firstly, to think business entities purchase labor based upon price (wages), shows a fundamental lacking in understanding of the economics of labor.

Labor is a demand function, not a consumer item. Businesses hire labor based upon demand. If they need more - they hire more; if they need less - they hire less. The demand is relatively inelastic to wages (though there is *some* elasticity). If there is no demand, lowering wages will not stimulate hiring. Not at all. But that's what the author of your article errantly claims. He is thinking in terms of consumer demand, which can be stimulated by lowering prices.

For factual proof, one only needs to examine the effects of the $15 min wage where it's currently practiced. Seattle is one place. I suggest you do a little research and educate yourself.

Here a quick link, I just Googled for you:

So far, the Seattle minimum-wage increase is doing what it’s supposed to do

But I urge you to find more for yourself. Not doom & gloom predictions into the future, but find the actual data after a year or two of 15 dollar min wage. I suspect you'll be quite surprised, and never look at your previous source (or others like it) the same way again.

Guess again:

Forbes Welcome

From the article:

'Maybe the city of Seattle will recover from the serious job market weaknesses that it has experienced since last April when its minimum wage law began imposing significantly higher labor costs on the city’s employers. Considering that Seattle had the largest three-month loss of jobs in city history between September and November last year following the first phase of wage hikes on the way to $15 and hour, it might be the case that the early evidence suggests that this is a “radical model for the rest of the nation to NOT follow.'


So you still have not produced unbiased, factual proof that the OP is 'thoroughly debunked'.

Let me know when you can...BTW - you will not be able to.


Havea nice day.

 

[Chomsky]

Guess again:

Forbes Welcome

From the article:

'Maybe the city of Seattle will recover from the serious job market weaknesses that it has experienced since last April when its minimum wage law began imposing significantly higher labor costs on the city’s employers. Considering that Seattle had the largest three-month loss of jobs in city history between September and November last year following the first phase of wage hikes on the way to $15 and hour, it might be the case that the early evidence suggests that this is a “radical model for the rest of the nation to NOT follow.'


So you still have not produced unbiased, factual proof that the OP is 'thoroughly debunked'.

Let me know when you can...BTW - you will not be able to.


Havea nice day.

It is 15 min wage. It get's implemented gradually over several years. If the effect were to take place it should be seen over the several years it's been rising, and that hasn't happened.

And your source (Mike Perry) has also been debunked; he uses different data periods playing-off seasonal variations rather than comparing data at like periods:

Why do conservatives keep saying Seattle's minimum wage hike has failed -- without data?

And more detailed:

LIES, DAMN LIES, AND THE IDIOTS CLAIMING SEATTLE IS LOSING JOBS

There's been constant threads on this, and your side has never prevailed.

And the places it's been tried like Seattle and San Francisco have no negative data to show, and indeed seem to be having very good economies.

 

[Kobie]

'Dear Bernie, as you continue in your never-ending "Fight for $15", we thought you might benefit from a simple example of how economics work in a real life, functioning, capitalistic society. You see, Bernie, labor, much like your daily serving of crunchy granola, is just another "good" that businesses can choose to consume more or less of, depending on price. And, just to be crystal clear, when the price of labor (i.e. wages) increases, businesses tend to consume less of it. Finally, our dearest Bernie, when misinformed politicians radically disrupt labor markets by setting artificially high base prices, like your proposed $15 federal minimum wage, then businesses simply stop consuming labor completely and instead replace that labor with this "Big Mac ATM Machine."'

Dear Bernie, Meet the "Big Mac ATM" That Will Replace All Of Your $15 Per Hour Fast Food Workers | Zero Hedge


Thoughts?

Do you not think automation would have eventually replaced fast food workers as soon as it was remotely feasible, technology-wise?

 

[Kobie]

Fine...than prove to me with links to UNBIASED, FACTUAL PROOF that the above machines being introduced have NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with rising labor costs and I will retract my statement.
Remember please...not opinions or theories...unbiased, factual proof.



What a staggeringly arrogant thing to say. You just seem to look down your nose at everyone who does not agree with you - don't you? I have seen you do it regularly...it's pathetic. And it does not further your cause - though it probably furthers your ego. People that condescend to others make me sick.

When did I say I do not treat everyone with respect...no matter what they do (because I believe no one is better than anyone else - just different). Also, I am not a fool. If someone is making my food, you are damn right I am going to be extra nice to them just so they don't spit on it (which, btw, they do sometimes - my friends who worked their tell me they do). Only an idiot is rude to someone in a fast food place.

And if you are saying that every fast food worker you have ever met is friendly - then you are either lying or you are blind.

And I do not blame them one little bit for being curt or looking bored...they are TERRIBLE JOBS. If I was stuck doing those ****ty jobs, I would get fed up after a while as well...no matter what they paid me (within reason).

Would you want to work at a fast food restaurant for years and years (even if it paid you $15/hour)...yes or no?

By the way, if you say 'yes' - you are either lying, have no idea what it is like to work at one OR have incredibly low standards.


Oh...and a little advice. stop acting so high and mighty and always assuming that just because someone does not agree with you on a subject that this automatically means they are rude or obnoxious people or treat everyone one tiny bit worse than you do.

:roll:

Wow. Someone saying they're not an asshole to fast-food workers is "condescending" and "high-and-mighty." So much so, that it needs to be bolded for emphasis.

 

[DA60]

It is 15 min wage. It get's implemented gradually over several years. If the effect were to take place it should be seen over the several years it's been rising, and that hasn't happened.

And your source (Mike Perry) has also been debunked; he uses different data periods playing-off seasonal variations rather than comparing data at like periods:

Why do conservatives keep saying Seattle's minimum wage hike has failed -- without data?

And more detailed:

LIES, DAMN LIES, AND THE IDIOTS CLAIMING SEATTLE IS LOSING JOBS

There's been constant threads on this, and your side has never prevailed.

And the places it's been tried like Seattle and San Francisco have no negative data to show, and indeed seem to be having very good economies.

The basis for your second links claims are special seasonal adjustment software from the census bureau...LOL!!!

Software adjustments based on seasonal adjustments? From the Census bureau - who last time I looked, their mandate was not unemployment tracking. Give me a break.


Plus, I just noticed, your comments above were based on the OP which is based on $15/ hour.

I got news for you pal...Seattle's MW is NOT $15/hour yet.

So your data is TOTALLY irrelevant as proof of your above statement.


Now...where is your link to UNBIASED, FACTUAL PROOF that the OP is 'throughly debunked' at $15 PER HOUR...not less?

BTW - since nowhere in the United States (to my knowledge) is there a $15 minimum wage, than it is IMPOSSIBLE to 'throughly debunked' the OP...DUH.


Stop wasting my time and the next time you make a matter-of-fact claim, make sure you have proof to back it up or your statement just makes you, imo, look utterly foolish on the subject.


We are done here.

Now why don't you go and watch lifestock tortured...something that sickens me but something you say you really want to see.

Have a nice day.

 

[joG]

'Dear Bernie, as you continue in your never-ending "Fight for $15", we thought you might benefit from a simple example of how economics work in a real life, functioning, capitalistic society. You see, Bernie, labor, much like your daily serving of crunchy granola, is just another "good" that businesses can choose to consume more or less of, depending on price. And, just to be crystal clear, when the price of labor (i.e. wages) increases, businesses tend to consume less of it. Finally, our dearest Bernie, when misinformed politicians radically disrupt labor markets by setting artificially high base prices, like your proposed $15 federal minimum wage, then businesses simply stop consuming labor completely and instead replace that labor with this "Big Mac ATM Machine."'

Dear Bernie, Meet the "Big Mac ATM" That Will Replace All Of Your $15 Per Hour Fast Food Workers | Zero Hedge


Thoughts?

Mister BS either knew this was part of the economic adaptation process or should have given he was popularising it as a Senator and candidate. So he was either negligent or deceiving the people intentionally for votes.

 

[DA60]

Mister BS either knew this was part of the economic adaptation process or should have given he was popularising it as a Senator and candidate. So he was either negligent or deceiving the people intentionally for votes.

Well put.

 

[Chomsky]

The basis for your second links claims are special seasonal adjustment software from the census bureau...LOL!!!

Software adjustments based on seasonal adjustments? From the Census bureau - who last time I looked, their mandate was not unemployment tracking. Give me a break.


Plus, I just noticed, your comments above were based on the OP which is based on $15/ hour.

I got news for you pal...Seattle's MW is NOT $15/hour yet.

So your data is TOTALLY irrelevant.


Now...where is your link to UNBIASED, FACTUAL PROOF that the OP is 'throughly debunked' at $15 PER HOUR...not less?

Your guy is hypothesizing about 15 an hour.

I'm showing you places that have enacted 15 an hour, and have already progressed down that path.

Are you trying to tell me that raising the min wage has no negative effect *until* 15 an hour? Some magic is postponed, but occurs exactly at 15?

This is what you are telling me.

 

[joG]

Firstly, to think business entities purchase labor based upon price (wages), shows a fundamental lacking in understanding of the economics of labor.

Labor is a demand function, not a consumer item. Businesses hire labor based upon demand. If they need more - they hire more; if they need less - they hire less. The demand is relatively inelastic to wages (though there is *some* elasticity). If there is no demand, lowering wages will not stimulate hiring. Not at all. But that's what the author of your article errantly claims. He is thinking in terms of consumer demand, which can be stimulated by lowering prices.

For factual proof, one only needs to examine the effects of the $15 min wage where it's currently practiced. Seattle is one place. I suggest you do a little research and educate yourself.

Here a quick link, I just Googled for you:

So far, the Seattle minimum-wage increase is doing what it’s supposed to do

But I urge you to find more for yourself. Not doom & gloom predictions into the future, but find the actual data after a year or two of 15 dollar min wage. I suspect you'll be quite surprised, and never look at your previous source (or others like it) the same way again.

I don't know, but I've always thought about how much a job would generate and what I could pay. It happened quite often that the available labour was too expensive. Then we would either leave the job uncreated or put a trainee onto the task.trainees cost almost nothing as they were there as students to learn.

 

[Chomsky]

I don't know, but I've always thought about how much a job would generate and what I could pay. It happened quite often that the available labour was too expensive. Then we would either leave the job uncreated or put a trainee onto the task.

Well, in some instances where adding the job can increase revenue, you might have a point. Perhaps in the example of adding a salesman.

But many if not most jobs, particularly of the minimum wage variety, are based upon demand:

- This is the season for hamburgers, so we better get another grill & grillman going.

- The demand for hamburgers is low now, so we don't need three grill guys - let one go.

 

[joG]

Well, in some instances where adding the job can increase revenue, you might have a point. Perhaps in the example of adding a salesman.

But many if not most jobs, particularly of the minimum wage variety, are based upon demand:

- This is the season for hamburgers, so we better get another grill & grillman going.

- The demand for hamburgers is low now, so we don't need three grill guys - let one go.

Or you just use a second machine usually in another store.

 

[HonestJoe]

Thoughts?

This kind of automation has been coming in to the fast-food industry for a long time and plenty of behind-the-scenes automation has been a major part of the industry for much longer. In general, automation and general technological replacement of human tasks has been going on for many decades (after all, these are being referred to as ATMs in reference to machines that have long replaced many bank employees).

Clearly any proposed minimum wage in the US isn’t the primary driving force for something that’s been happening for a long time across the developed world. The main blocker for these machines in fast-food restaurants will likely have been public resistance but as similar technologies become more wide-spread and a greater proportion of the population has grown up with them, it becomes more acceptable. Where previously a lot of people wouldn’t trust or understand the machine, now a growing number of people would prefer to use these machines than give their order to a human being (for good or bad).

Staff costs will always be a major element of this kind of thing and minimum wage laws will always be a major element of that, especially in traditionally low-paid jobs. I don’t think it’s legitimate to make such a singular and direct connection as it being attempted here. I also think it’s ultimately harmful to use this kind of thing for entirely political spin purposes where there are real social and economic questions that this reflects and that we really need to address properly (preferably without the politicos getting involved).

 

[Cardinal]

I love it.

I would FAR rather a machine fixed my fast food then some human who might have the flu, spit on it or god-knows-what-else on it. Plus, I do not have to deal with fast food workers and their fake smiles and fake greetings OR their attitude (no matter how friendly you are to them) because they hate their degrading jobs (no matter what the pay).

With the above machine - I just pay my money, hit the appropriate button and out comes my fast food. Probably as good or better than when humans make it.



Also, this is what happens when the government starts determining what people should be paid...they often get replaced with automation.

Get used to it...because if $15/hr. becomes a national law anytime in the near future...you will see a LOT more of these machines...GUARANTEED.

Worrying how people handle my food is pretty much the lowest common denominator I can think of. If that's the standard you're operating by then nobody should be chefs or waiters at all. And as I'm sure somebody in this thread will point out, automation is a momentum that has been in place for decades.

Google "automation bomb."

 

[Praxas]

Nothing...but the job is degrading. I have never done it, but I know many who have and they all HATED IT. Boring, degrading, dehumanizing, regimented, often hot (if you are in the kitchen), repetitive...they are LOUSY jobs.
The faster automation can replace them, the better for humanity.

How is it degrading? Boy, elitist attitude much?

 

[jamesrage]

'Dear Bernie, as you continue in your never-ending "Fight for $15", we thought you might benefit from a simple example of how economics work in a real life, functioning, capitalistic society. You see, Bernie, labor, much like your daily serving of crunchy granola, is just another "good" that businesses can choose to consume more or less of, depending on price. And, just to be crystal clear, when the price of labor (i.e. wages) increases, businesses tend to consume less of it. Finally, our dearest Bernie, when misinformed politicians radically disrupt labor markets by setting artificially high base prices, like your proposed $15 federal minimum wage, then businesses simply stop consuming labor completely and instead replace that labor with this "Big Mac ATM Machine."'

Dear Bernie, Meet the "Big Mac ATM" That Will Replace All Of Your $15 Per Hour Fast Food Workers | Zero Hedge


Thoughts?

A machine that has to be manually loaded by workers,maintained by workers and burgers that have to be made by workers will somehow replace workers?