De Javu...I am feeling an eerie sense of dejavu

[Moderate Right]

I have no idea which way the actual general election will go no matter the nominee.
No one thought Trump would win. He's president.
Lots of folks saying no way Bernie will win. I guess we'll just have to see.
I just hope whoever the democratic nominee is they can try to unite the party and then the country. Not sure it's possible but who knows?

Won't happen. Both sides have a take no prisoners attitude. Bipartisan means the other side coming over and doing things YOUR way. Hillary ran on a campaign theme of "Stronger Together" and then turned right around and called millions of people deplorables. The left have no interest in uniting anyone, including their own side. Nancy isn't going to unite with the progressive wing and Bernie and AOC aren't going to unite with the so called moderate wing. Both sides are in a tug of war. One side wins, the other side loses. Or, they both lose.

 

[Craig234]

The 2020 democratic primary is shaping up too similar to what the Republican primaries looked like in 16.

Anyone else have this eerie feeling?

Just a little, except this is 'real' instead of phony.

But there are things in common, with the electorate liking someone who says they'll support the working class against the wealthy class, where money isn't working that well to buy enough votes, where an insurgent has the party against them and is winning anyway. Other than that, Bernie and trump are about opposites.

 

[j brown's body]

So many people claimed that Bernie could have beaten Trump in '16. I suspect at least some of them are now saying he will lose in a landslide. Just face the sad fact that there are enough people in this country who are soured on democracy to elect and even re-elect an authoritarian.

I am inclined to deem Bernie unelectable because he is so far to the left, however he has several strengths that could be a mistake to under-estimate. Here are a couple:

He is very well-known, so it may be difficult to paint him as a Soviet Communist monster.

He can attack Trump's strength - While Trump will be running on a strong economy, Bernie is well practiced at pointing out it's flaws with regard to working people, such as to the cost of healthcare and college, the gap between the rich and the middle class, etc.

Because of this, he is doing well with the noncollege educated, which is Trump's base.

So we may have the choice between two populists - one is reminiscent of a national socialist , the other a democratic socialist.

So I wouldn't count him out.

 

[Moderate Right]

No we may switch from corporate socialism to actual citizens of the country receiving benefits from/for the country they pay into, fight and die for.

I wouldn't hold your breath. That ain't gonna happen. First, the presidency is not a dictatorship, no matter what you may think. If Bernie becomes president he can't just play dictator. There will still be a Congress and there will more than likely be a so called moderate Democrat majority in the House and a Republican Senate. All Bernie will be able to do is get get small bites out of the apple and use EO's. The US isn't going to become "Democratic Socialist". And, don't forget, Trump isn't going to leave office if he loses and he will have installed his deep state into the government, just as Obama had done. And, don't forget about all of those conservative federal judges and Supreme Court we've got. Bernie isn't going to be able to accomplish much.

 

[Craig234]

3 states with fewer than 500,000 votes cast. Two Caucuses and one small state. If I was Liz, Pete or any of the others, I'd double down right now.

And winning in all the national polls, with the most money, the most volunteers, while most of the remaining candidates like Pete and Amy have basically no operations outside of Iowa and New Hampshire. Bernie is winning. Deal with it.

 

[Craig234]

So many people claimed that Bernie could have beaten Trump in '16. I suspect at least some of them are now saying he will lose in a landslide.

It's a lot harder to defeat trump as an incumbent, but Bernie can do it.

So we may have the choice between two populists - one is reminiscent of a national socialist , the other a democratic socialist.

One a phony populist and liar plutocrat, the other a real populist.

 

[j brown's body]

I wouldn't hold your breath. That ain't gonna happen. First, the presidency is not a dictatorship, no matter what you may think. If Bernie becomes president he can't just play dictator. There will still be a Congress and there will more than likely be a so called moderate Democrat majority in the House and a Republican Senate. All Bernie will be able to do is get get small bites out of the apple and use EO's. The US isn't going to become "Democratic Socialist". And, don't forget, Trump isn't going to leave office if he loses and he will have installed his deep state into the government, just as Obama had done. And, don't forget about all of those conservative federal judges and Supreme Court we've got. Bernie isn't going to be able to accomplish much.

Could you cite a source supporting your suggestion that Obama filled the government with people personally loyal to him as opposed to the country, as Trump is doing?

 

[j brown's body]

It's a lot harder to defeat trump as an incumbent, but Bernie can do it.



One a phony populist and liar plutocrat, the other a real populist.

Trump's margin is slim, indeed.

 

[Craig234]

What Bernie is missing is what FDR had: a 'real' socialist movement in the country he could be to the right of, to reassure the centrists.

Because there isn't one, it puts Bernie 'furthest to the left', even though he's similar to FDR, and that scares people. FDR portrayed himself as 'saving capitalism from socialism'. But we're in such a massive era of plutocracy, that the people are more open to the right policies than they usually are, and trump is such a corrupt monster, it doesn't provide any sensible choice to them.

 

[Craig234]

Could you cite a source supporting your suggestion that Obama filled the government with people personally loyal to him as opposed to the country, as Trump is doing?

Of a hundred million women Obama could have picked, he made his WIFE first lady. CRONYISM.

 

[Moderate Right]

Could you cite a source supporting your suggestion that Obama filled the government with people personally loyal to him as opposed to the country, as Trump is doing?

Oh please. Your partisanship knows no bounds, In any event, assuming that your nonsense BS post is actually true, Bernie still has to deal with the Trump deep state, who will be working against Bernie from the inside for as long as they can thwart him. Whistleblowers and "career" public servants will come out of the woodwork to do their civic duty. There will have to be investigations into Russian collusion because the Russians are trying to get their socialist Russian loving comrade to the presidency to get rid of democracy once and for all. Every questionable thing Bernie does will be leaked to the media by anonymous sources, even if it has to be twisted for special effect. Trump's Intelligence agencies will leak proof to the media of Bernie's Russian collusion. Lawsuits will be filed against Bernie's policies left and right, with conservative judges and courts deciding the outcome. Paybacks are hell.

 

[j brown's body]

Oh please. Your partisanship knows no bounds, In any event, assuming that your nonsense BS post is actually true, Bernie still has to deal with the Trump deep state, who will be working against Bernie from the inside for as long as they can thwart him. Whistleblowers and "career" public servants will come out of the woodwork to do their civic duty. There will have to be investigations into Russian collusion because the Russians are trying to get their socialist Russian loving comrade to the presidency to get rid of democracy once and for all. Every questionable thing Bernie does will be leaked to the media by anonymous sources, even if it has to be twisted for special effect. Trump's Intelligence agencies will leak proof to the media of Bernie's Russian collusion. Lawsuits will be filed against Bernie's policies left and right, with conservative judges and courts deciding the outcome. Paybacks are hell.

Nice dodge.

I gather you see Trump as uncorrupt? That takes quite a bit of denial.

Compare Bernie's response to the story that Russia is trying to help him to Trump's response. The contrast is stark.

 

[Moderate Right]

Nice dodge.

I gather you see Trump as uncorrupt? That takes quite a bit of denial.

Corrupt how? Can you please post proof other than the left's constant attacks and presumptions? Your opinions don't count. By the way, it is YOU who dodged.

 

[Cardinal]

Actually, odds makers around the world who do that for a living give Trump a good sized advantage. Many European leaders expect Trump to win. Now you could argue that it didn't turn out the way they predicted in 2016 but these experts don't just pick a name out of a hat to handicap races. They use data and apparently the data they are using favors Trump by a good margin.

Soooo...your position is basically “people are saying.”

 

[Middle_Ground]

True, anything is possible. I am still remembering waking up that morning, thought I was dreaming, was certain Hillary would be it. Surprise.
Bernie could win, but he would have to compromise and reach out to the middle. Not sure if he is willing.

I don't know Trump didn't reach out to anyone.
I kept, keep hearing about this silent majority that put him over the top. I think we"ll see if there is another silent majority.

 

[Middle_Ground]

Won't happen. Both sides have a take no prisoners attitude. Bipartisan means the other side coming over and doing things YOUR way. Hillary ran on a campaign theme of "Stronger Together" and then turned right around and called millions of people deplorables. The left have no interest in uniting anyone, including their own side. Nancy isn't going to unite with the progressive wing and Bernie and AOC aren't going to unite with the so called moderate wing. Both sides are in a tug of war. One side wins, the other side loses. Or, they both lose.

Yeah at some point there are no prisoners left and folks have to start working together.
Your right currently there is no working together and hasn't been since January 2009. With marches in the street the president with a noose around his neck in a cage, monkey suits etc.
Hilary's statement was used as a crutch unless you were a racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic person you knew she wasn't talking about you, but that never mattered. Just like some dishonest person ****ing dared me yesterday to post Bernies statement about Putin after the first line. Its disgusting.
Nancy has been able to unite the left on many issues so I won't count her out.
But hey maybe your right and there is no hope for unity. I guess we'll just have to see which silent majority is bigger and go from there.

 

[Middle_Ground]

Just a little, except this is 'real' instead of phony.

But there are things in common, with the electorate liking someone who says they'll support the working class against the wealthy class, where money isn't working that well to buy enough votes, where an insurgent has the party against them and is winning anyway. Other than that, Bernie and trump are about opposites.

Yeah right now I feel like where on the pirate ship at the county fair swing really far right everyone screams, really far left everyone screams eventually it settles in the middle and everyone calmly gets off hopefully that can happen in my lifetime.

 

[Middle_Ground]

I wouldn't hold your breath. That ain't gonna happen. First, the presidency is not a dictatorship, no matter what you may think. If Bernie becomes president he can't just play dictator. There will still be a Congress and there will more than likely be a so called moderate Democrat majority in the House and a Republican Senate. All Bernie will be able to do is get get small bites out of the apple and use EO's. The US isn't going to become "Democratic Socialist". And, don't forget, Trump isn't going to leave office if he loses and he will have installed his deep state into the government, just as Obama had done. And, don't forget about all of those conservative federal judges and Supreme Court we've got. Bernie isn't going to be able to accomplish much.

Never thought Bernie if president could get even an 1/8th of what he wants done in 4 years but maybe just maybe the bend will be towards everyday working Americans and away from corporate socislism.

 

[j brown's body]

Soooo...your position is basically “people are saying.”

You claimed he is installing "deep state" in government. What did you mean?

 

[Cardinal]

You claimed he is installing "deep state" in government. What did you mean?

I think you may have hit "reply with quote" to the wrong person.

 

[Moderate Right]

Soooo...your position is basically “people are saying.”

That's why it's hard to debate with people who don't see the reality. Oddsmakers know much more than either you or I and they look at all kinds of data and, after doing so, they have made Trump a considerable favorite to win re-election. Your only real argument is that these same people predicted a Hillary win in 2016 so they could be wrong again in 2020. Doesn't change the fact that the data these people look at favors Trump.

 

[Cardinal]

That's why it's hard to debate with people who don't see the reality. Oddsmakers know much more than either you or I and they look at all kinds of data and, after doing so, they have made Trump a considerable favorite to win re-election. Your only real argument is that these same people predicted a Hillary win in 2016 so they could be wrong again in 2020. Doesn't change the fact that the data these people look at favors Trump.

So what are these gamblers...I'm sorry -- oddmakers...basing their information on? Their gut?

 

[Moderate Right]

Yeah at some point there are no prisoners left and folks have to start working together.
Your right currently there is no working together and hasn't been since January 2009. With marches in the street the president with a noose around his neck in a cage, monkey suits etc.
Hilary's statement was used as a crutch unless you were a racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic person you knew she wasn't talking about you, but that never mattered. Just like some dishonest person ****ing dared me yesterday to post Bernies statement about Putin after the first line. Its disgusting.
Nancy has been able to unite the left on many issues so I won't count her out.
But hey maybe your right and there is no hope for unity. I guess we'll just have to see which silent majority is bigger and go from there.

Ever since Al Gore invented the internet, both sides have moved steadily toward the extremes. You'd think that at some point we would hit rock bottom (as Lisa Murkowski hoped) and that things would start getting better. I hope that's true because it is the only hope we have of staving off some kind of civil war. Everyone on both sides is getting very tired of one side winning an election with 50.1% of the vote and claiming it as a mandate to cram their values down the 100%. Russia may very well have achieved their objective of making Americans question how Democracy works.

 

[Moderate Right]

Never thought Bernie if president could get even an 1/8th of what he wants done in 4 years but maybe just maybe the bend will be towards everyday working Americans and away from corporate socislism.

I'm against swapping one socialism for another. It's kind of like having children. You can't just cave in to whatever children want and just give it to them. That's what the Democratic socialists want. They want to just give everything to everyone. It's like giving children the right to vote and vote for whatever they want. Of course they want everything for free and don't want to work for it. Just give me anything and everything I want for free. Children shouldn't be allowed to vote. It would destroy our country. That's who Bernie supporters are, a bunch of children who want whatever they want now. They don't want to have to earn it. They don't want to have to work for it. They just want it given to them and they're perfectly willing to steal if from the rich. Everyone loves the story of Robin Hood. Sounds good but in practice it doesn't work.

Leftists always make the mistake of thinking that the economy is a zero sum game. In order for the poorer to be better off they think we have to steal it from the rich. It doesn't have to be that way. It hasn't been that way. The standard of living of the poor has gone up exponentially for centuries. The poor's standard of living always goes up. A poor person today is far better off than a poor person was in 1920 who's standard of living was much better off than in 1820, 1720, and so on. It's all about jealousy that leftists believe the rich's standard of living rises faster than the poorer's standard of living and they just can't stand it. Never mind the fact that the poor are always better off than they were. They always think that when one end of the teeter tawter goes up the other end has to come down. It's just a liberal lie.

 

[Moderate Right]

So what are these gamblers...I'm sorry -- oddmakers...basing their information on? Their gut?

I already told you. They don't just pick names out of a hat. They don't go on emotions like you do. They look at the facts they look at because they do this for a living.